Natalee Case Discussion #745 3/25 - 4/4/08

[klaasend]

GBMW

''Anyway; I'm hoping that this opinion doesn't mean I will be banned from SM  (I've been warned by some posters at RU...probably the ones that worship Joran and really dislike Beth ...I like this forum.''

Hello GBMW you can't be banned for you own opinion, this forum is very fair.

Blonde ... I am proud to call myself a Monkey because the SM Natalee forum upholds the family in their ongoing quest for answers into the disappearance of their beloved Natalee.

I may not always agree with some opinions/speculations regarding the case and ... that is OK.

However ... I am not tolerate of opinions which undermine Beth, Jug and Dave's motives, words or actions.  I am not tolerant of opinions that uphold the Aruban investigation.  I am not tolerant of opinions that distance Paulus and Joran van der Sloot from implication in the events that encompass the morning of May 30, 2005.

I have left two forums that in time evolved into places that embraced/tolerated differing opinions that included undermining the motives, words and actions of the family of Natalee Holloway ... upholding the corrupt Aruban investigation and ... distancing Paulus and Joran's role in the disappearance of an 18 year old American citizen.

Morally ... I had no choice but to leave those two Natalee Forums.  Staying would have implied a betrayal to a family who has been on a roller coaster ride from H--- since May 30, 2005 compliments of an established Aruban coverup to protect their own.

Janet

Natalee is the victim.  Natalee's family are therefore victims.  We are 1000% behind Natalee's family and their quest for justice.  WE STAND WITH THE GIRL.

[JE]

GBMW

''Anyway; I'm hoping that this opinion doesn't mean I will be banned from SM  (I've been warned by some posters at RU...probably the ones that worship Joran and really dislike Beth ...I like this forum.''

Hello GBMW you can't be banned for you own opinion, this forum is very fair.

Blonde ... I am proud to call myself a Monkey because the SM Natalee forum upholds the family in their ongoing quest for answers into the disappearance of their beloved Natalee.

I may not always agree with some opinions/speculations regarding the case and ... that is OK.

However ... I am not tolerate of opinions which undermine Beth, Jug and Dave's motives, words or actions.  I am not tolerant of opinions that uphold the Aruban investigation.  I am not tolerant of opinions that distance Paulus and Joran van der Sloot from implication in the events that encompass the morning of May 30, 2005.

I have left two forums that in time evolved into places that embraced/tolerated differing opinions that included undermining the motives, words and actions of the family of Natalee Holloway ... upholding the corrupt Aruban investigation and ... distancing Paulus and Joran's role in the disappearance of an 18 year old American citizen.

Morally ... I had no choice but to leave those two Natalee Forums.  Staying would have implied a betrayal to a family who has been on a roller coaster ride from H--- since May 30, 2005 compliments of an established Aruban coverup to protect their own.

Janet

If the ultimate goal is truth, one should not be afraid to explore all possible scenarios regardless of people concerned or loyalties based on ones perception of afore mentioned truth. Truth is based on facts not emotions. This being said it does not mean i disagree with you.

[GBMW]

GBMW

RU is not really an information seeking forum.  Any "real" info is disseminated in the "hidey hole" or other "secret/private" sites and then PM'd to certain posters to disseminate dis information.  The Gielen trash was tested there before it ever hit the airwaves.  Believe it or not, there are some more reasonable posters there now, then there ever used to be. It's a "read only" site, for me.  You've held your own pretty well, so far. Good luck.

Thanks for your post Buckeye. I've learned a bit about RU (very quickly ...) but this gives some more insight. I'm someone that believes Joran was heavily involved in the dissapearance / death of Natalee and that his father & friends (Jorans and his fathers') helped him to cover it up. I don't believe in a total corrupt investigation though.

And it seems there are some weird things concerning the Holloway / Twitty's also. I'm Dutch and the media here haven't given her / the family a lot of attention because their focus (if there was media attention for the case) is on the case itself / the suspects (as it should be I think). But when you start to read on a couple of forums there are some things that makes you wonder. I've been reading serious press mostly so it's confusing me a bit.

And to go back in the archives to catch up would take a lot of time; time I don't want to spend on it...I will just follow my gut feeling; usually works for me . And I don't really want to explore it anyway; it isn't important to me because they haven't got anything to do with what happened that night (as far as I am concerned) and to me they are very much victims also.

Anyway; I'm hoping that this opinion doesn't mean I will be banned from SM  (I've been warned by some posters at RU...probably the ones that worship Joran and really dislike Beth ...I like this forum.

GBMW ... what "things"?

Janet

Hi Janet,

when you 'read around' there are posts that Beth / the family lied, manipulated...well just about everything .
To give you an example...a recent thing: if Jorans confession is true in general (which she believes) why isn't Beth 'mad' at Daury but seems to express anger only towards Joran in interviews?

Daury is the one that dumped Natalee in the ocean; and in that way the possible murderer of Natalee. Of course Joran was the one that was with Natalee and didn't get help; he started the whole cover up & lied about it for years - made money of it...

But Daury is the one who disposed of Natalee....the one that actually threw her daughter in the ocean while Joran was walking home / chatting / downloading porn. And yet she doesn't mention any anger in her recent press towards him. She did state in the Peter R. de Vries show 'Look at what they've done' but after this it seems she stayed quiet concerning Daury.....


Maybe she's only doing this because Joran is the only one she knows the true identity of and the one who holds a big responsibility...maybe she doubts the Daurypart in the confession...could all be...but it seems a bit weird.

[klaasend]

GBMW

RU is not really an information seeking forum.  Any "real" info is disseminated in the "hidey hole" or other "secret/private" sites and then PM'd to certain posters to disseminate dis information.  The Gielen trash was tested there before it ever hit the airwaves.  Believe it or not, there are some more reasonable posters there now, then there ever used to be. It's a "read only" site, for me.  You've held your own pretty well, so far. Good luck.

Thanks for your post Buckeye. I've learned a bit about RU (very quickly ...) but this gives some more insight. I'm someone that believes Joran was heavily involved in the dissapearance / death of Natalee and that his father & friends (Jorans and his fathers') helped him to cover it up. I don't believe in a total corrupt investigation though.

And it seems there are some weird things concerning the Holloway / Twitty's also. I'm Dutch and the media here haven't given her / the family a lot of attention because their focus (if there was media attention for the case) is on the case itself / the suspects (as it should be I think). But when you start to read on a couple of forums there are some things that makes you wonder. I've been reading serious press mostly so it's confusing me a bit.

And to go back in the archives to catch up would take a lot of time; time I don't want to spend on it...I will just follow my gut feeling; usually works for me . And I don't really want to explore it anyway; it isn't important to me because they haven't got anything to do with what happened that night (as far as I am concerned) and to me they are very much victims also.

Anyway; I'm hoping that this opinion doesn't mean I will be banned from SM  (I've been warned by some posters at RU...probably the ones that worship Joran and really dislike Beth ...I like this forum.

GBMW ... what "things"?

Janet

Hi Janet,

when you 'read around' there are posts that Beth / the family lied, manipulated...well just about everything .
To give you an example...a recent thing: if Jorans confession is true in general (which she believes) why isn't Beth 'mad' at Daury but seems to express anger only towards Joran in interviews?

Daury is the one that dumped Natalee in the ocean; and in that way the possible murderer of Natalee. Of course Joran was the one that was with Natalee and didn't get help; he started the whole cover up & lied about it for years - made money of it...

But Daury is the one who disposed of Natalee....the one that actually threw her daughter in the ocean while Joran was walking home / chatting / downloading porn. And yet she doesn't mention any anger in her recent press towards him. She did state in the Peter R. de Vries show 'Look at what they've done' but after this it seems she stayed quiet concerning Daury.....


Maybe she's only doing this because Joran is the only one she knows the true identity of and the one who holds a big responsibility...maybe she doubts the Daurypart in the confession...could all be...but it seems a bit weird.

My guess is Beth doesn't believe the Daury story at all.  She probably believes the person who helped him was his father.  Beth has already given her opinion of PVDS as has Peter R. di Vries 

[KarmaRoundUp]

GBMW

RU is not really an information seeking forum.  Any "real" info is disseminated in the "hidey hole" or other "secret/private" sites and then PM'd to certain posters to disseminate dis information.  The Gielen trash was tested there before it ever hit the airwaves.  Believe it or not, there are some more reasonable posters there now, then there ever used to be. It's a "read only" site, for me.  You've held your own pretty well, so far. Good luck.

Thanks for your post Buckeye. I've learned a bit about RU (very quickly ...) but this gives some more insight. I'm someone that believes Joran was heavily involved in the dissapearance / death of Natalee and that his father & friends (Jorans and his fathers') helped him to cover it up. I don't believe in a total corrupt investigation though.

And it seems there are some weird things concerning the Holloway / Twitty's also. I'm Dutch and the media here haven't given her / the family a lot of attention because their focus (if there was media attention for the case) is on the case itself / the suspects (as it should be I think). But when you start to read on a couple of forums there are some things that makes you wonder. I've been reading serious press mostly so it's confusing me a bit.

And to go back in the archives to catch up would take a lot of time; time I don't want to spend on it...I will just follow my gut feeling; usually works for me . And I don't really want to explore it anyway; it isn't important to me because they haven't got anything to do with what happened that night (as far as I am concerned) and to me they are very much victims also.

Anyway; I'm hoping that this opinion doesn't mean I will be banned from SM  (I've been warned by some posters at RU...probably the ones that worship Joran and really dislike Beth ...I like this forum.

GBMW ... what "things"?

Janet

Hi Janet,

when you 'read around' there are posts that Beth / the family lied, manipulated...well just about everything .
To give you an example...a recent thing: if Jorans confession is true in general (which she believes) why isn't Beth 'mad' at Daury but seems to express anger only towards Joran in interviews?

Daury is the one that dumped Natalee in the ocean; and in that way the possible murderer of Natalee. Of course Joran was the one that was with Natalee and didn't get help; he started the whole cover up & lied about it for years - made money of it...

But Daury is the one who disposed of Natalee....the one that actually threw her daughter in the ocean while Joran was walking home / chatting / downloading porn. And yet she doesn't mention any anger in her recent press towards him. She did state in the Peter R. de Vries show 'Look at what they've done' but after this it seems she stayed quiet concerning Daury.....


Maybe she's only doing this because Joran is the only one she knows the true identity of and the one who holds a big responsibility...maybe she doubts the Daurypart in the confession...could all be...but it seems a bit weird.

I think with all the hell Beth and Dave and thier families have been put through.....Beth and Dave KNOW what a low down dirty liar joran is.Beth may have found SOME peace from hearing joran state that Natalee was on the beach and possibly died there.IMO Beth knows she was drugged by joran and no matter what,she did recieve some peace from that knowing.IMO Beth and Dave are the most qualified to know that joran ain't nothing but a liar,a bad seed and I will follow what ever they believe about joran.....it was THIER daughter who was murdered by the scumbag POS so in my eyes......they have every right to believe what they want without anyone second guessing thier motives.

[private eye]

GBMW

RU is not really an information seeking forum.  Any "real" info is disseminated in the "hidey hole" or other "secret/private" sites and then PM'd to certain posters to disseminate dis information.  The Gielen trash was tested there before it ever hit the airwaves.  Believe it or not, there are some more reasonable posters there now, then there ever used to be. It's a "read only" site, for me.  You've held your own pretty well, so far. Good luck.

Thanks for your post Buckeye. I've learned a bit about RU (very quickly ...) but this gives some more insight. I'm someone that believes Joran was heavily involved in the dissapearance / death of Natalee and that his father & friends (Jorans and his fathers') helped him to cover it up. I don't believe in a total corrupt investigation though.

And it seems there are some weird things concerning the Holloway / Twitty's also. I'm Dutch and the media here haven't given her / the family a lot of attention because their focus (if there was media attention for the case) is on the case itself / the suspects (as it should be I think). But when you start to read on a couple of forums there are some things that makes you wonder. I've been reading serious press mostly so it's confusing me a bit.

And to go back in the archives to catch up would take a lot of time; time I don't want to spend on it...I will just follow my gut feeling; usually works for me . And I don't really want to explore it anyway; it isn't important to me because they haven't got anything to do with what happened that night (as far as I am concerned) and to me they are very much victims also.

Anyway; I'm hoping that this opinion doesn't mean I will be banned from SM  (I've been warned by some posters at RU...probably the ones that worship Joran and really dislike Beth ...I like this forum.

GBMW ... what "things"?

Janet

Hi Janet,

when you 'read around' there are posts that Beth / the family lied, manipulated...well just about everything .
To give you an example...a recent thing: if Jorans confession is true in general (which she believes) why isn't Beth 'mad' at Daury but seems to express anger only towards Joran in interviews?

Daury is the one that dumped Natalee in the ocean; and in that way the possible murderer of Natalee. Of course Joran was the one that was with Natalee and didn't get help; he started the whole cover up & lied about it for years - made money of it...

But Daury is the one who disposed of Natalee....the one that actually threw her daughter in the ocean while Joran was walking home / chatting / downloading porn. And yet she doesn't mention any anger in her recent press towards him. She did state in the Peter R. de Vries show 'Look at what they've done' but after this it seems she stayed quiet concerning Daury.....


Maybe she's only doing this because Joran is the only one she knows the true identity of and the one who holds a big responsibility...maybe she doubts the Daurypart in the confession...could all be...but it seems a bit weird.

Joran is responsible. Daury acted at Joran's request, in his story. And yes, once Daury is determined to be real, and his identity is known, then she will hold him responsible. If she hated every character in Joran's resume of stories, she would be very busy. I am a little confused with what you are trying to imply. Should Dauby mitigate her anger for Joran or his responsibility? Are you implying she is blaming the wrong person? That it is daury that she should hold responsible? I am not disagreeing, but it is obvious you have a position that you wish to establish, and I am not disagreeing, but I can't quite follow it

[Tamikosmom]

GBMW

''Anyway; I'm hoping that this opinion doesn't mean I will be banned from SM  (I've been warned by some posters at RU...probably the ones that worship Joran and really dislike Beth ...I like this forum.''

Hello GBMW you can't be banned for you own opinion, this forum is very fair.

Blonde ... I am proud to call myself a Monkey because the SM Natalee forum upholds the family in their ongoing quest for answers into the disappearance of their beloved Natalee.

I may not always agree with some opinions/speculations regarding the case and ... that is OK.

However ... I am not tolerate of opinions which undermine Beth, Jug and Dave's motives, words or actions.  I am not tolerant of opinions that uphold the Aruban investigation.  I am not tolerant of opinions that distance Paulus and Joran van der Sloot from implication in the events that encompass the morning of May 30, 2005.

I have left two forums that in time evolved into places that embraced/tolerated differing opinions that included undermining the motives, words and actions of the family of Natalee Holloway ... upholding the corrupt Aruban investigation and ... distancing Paulus and Joran's role in the disappearance of an 18 year old American citizen.

Morally ... I had no choice but to leave those two Natalee Forums.  Staying would have implied a betrayal to a family who has been on a roller coaster ride from H--- since May 30, 2005 compliments of an established Aruban coverup to protect their own.

Janet

If the ultimate goal is truth, one should not be afraid to explore all possible scenarios regardless of people concerned or loyalties based on ones perception of afore mentioned truth. Truth is based on facts not emotions. This being said it does not mean i disagree with you.

JE ... in my opinion ... a dialogue that shifts the focus of attention from the main suspects and the corrupt Aruban investigation ... to the family of the victim ... the family who were not on the Island when Natalee Holloway went missing ... is a distraction from the truth that encompassing the events of May 30, 2005.

Joran, Deepak and Satish were the last persons observed with Natalee Holloway.  Joran, Deepak and Satish lied regarding their final encounter with Natalee Holloway.  Lies are created to cover the truth which implies that Joran, Deepak and Satish know the truth.

Think about it ... Joran, Deepak and Satish must have been aware that Natalee Holloway was deceased when they related the Holiday Inn dropoff.  Logic dictates that these guys would not collaborate an account that could be refuted if Natalee were to turn up.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
NANCY GRACE
August 29, 2005

GRACE: Beth, what was his first story to you? What was the first story they told you?

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: The first story -- and you know, Nancy, I was not in the group when they were giving this information. Jug and the rest of the group that flew in with us were there. But he was stating that he had dropped Natalee off, and that he and Deepak and Satish had dropped her off at the Holiday Inn, when she got out of the car she stumbled, fell, hit her head, got up, and two security guards met her there at the entrance.

And you know, Deepak was standing right there. And we were even taken to the Holiday Inn and parked in front of the entrance to the Holiday Inn to show us that that`s where they had dropped her off. I mean, it`s right when you walk into the Holiday Inn.

And then as everyone knows, on June 2nd I reviewed the video footage of the people coming into the Holiday Inn, and Natalee Holloway -- Natalee never entered the Holiday Inn.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/29/ng.01.html

[GBMW]

GBMW

RU is not really an information seeking forum.  Any "real" info is disseminated in the "hidey hole" or other "secret/private" sites and then PM'd to certain posters to disseminate dis information.  The Gielen trash was tested there before it ever hit the airwaves.  Believe it or not, there are some more reasonable posters there now, then there ever used to be. It's a "read only" site, for me.  You've held your own pretty well, so far. Good luck.

Thanks for your post Buckeye. I've learned a bit about RU (very quickly ...) but this gives some more insight. I'm someone that believes Joran was heavily involved in the dissapearance / death of Natalee and that his father & friends (Jorans and his fathers') helped him to cover it up. I don't believe in a total corrupt investigation though.

And it seems there are some weird things concerning the Holloway / Twitty's also. I'm Dutch and the media here haven't given her / the family a lot of attention because their focus (if there was media attention for the case) is on the case itself / the suspects (as it should be I think). But when you start to read on a couple of forums there are some things that makes you wonder. I've been reading serious press mostly so it's confusing me a bit.

And to go back in the archives to catch up would take a lot of time; time I don't want to spend on it...I will just follow my gut feeling; usually works for me . And I don't really want to explore it anyway; it isn't important to me because they haven't got anything to do with what happened that night (as far as I am concerned) and to me they are very much victims also.

Anyway; I'm hoping that this opinion doesn't mean I will be banned from SM  (I've been warned by some posters at RU...probably the ones that worship Joran and really dislike Beth ...I like this forum.

GBMW ... what "things"?

Janet

Hi Janet,

when you 'read around' there are posts that Beth / the family lied, manipulated...well just about everything .
To give you an example...a recent thing: if Jorans confession is true in general (which she believes) why isn't Beth 'mad' at Daury but seems to express anger only towards Joran in interviews?

Daury is the one that dumped Natalee in the ocean; and in that way the possible murderer of Natalee. Of course Joran was the one that was with Natalee and didn't get help; he started the whole cover up & lied about it for years - made money of it...

But Daury is the one who disposed of Natalee....the one that actually threw her daughter in the ocean while Joran was walking home / chatting / downloading porn. And yet she doesn't mention any anger in her recent press towards him. She did state in the Peter R. de Vries show 'Look at what they've done' but after this it seems she stayed quiet concerning Daury.....


Maybe she's only doing this because Joran is the only one she knows the true identity of and the one who holds a big responsibility...maybe she doubts the Daurypart in the confession...could all be...but it seems a bit weird.

My guess is Beth doesn't believe the Daury story at all.  She probably believes the person who helped him was his father.  Beth has already given her opinion of PVDS as has Peter R. di Vries 

That could be an explanation indeed...only a dad would probably tell someone to go to school the next day...not a criminal youngster
Was Peter R. de Vries very negative about Paulus in the American press? In Holland he usually only mentioned the things that he could back up...although his looks towards Joran and his dad at the Pauw & Wittemanshow sometimes said more than a thousand words . I have nothing to do with it...sitting at home and I got chills seeing some of his looks....brrrr.

[private eye]

GBMW

RU is not really an information seeking forum.  Any "real" info is disseminated in the "hidey hole" or other "secret/private" sites and then PM'd to certain posters to disseminate dis information.  The Gielen trash was tested there before it ever hit the airwaves.  Believe it or not, there are some more reasonable posters there now, then there ever used to be. It's a "read only" site, for me.  You've held your own pretty well, so far. Good luck.

Thanks for your post Buckeye. I've learned a bit about RU (very quickly ...) but this gives some more insight. I'm someone that believes Joran was heavily involved in the dissapearance / death of Natalee and that his father & friends (Jorans and his fathers') helped him to cover it up. I don't believe in a total corrupt investigation though.

And it seems there are some weird things concerning the Holloway / Twitty's also. I'm Dutch and the media here haven't given her / the family a lot of attention because their focus (if there was media attention for the case) is on the case itself / the suspects (as it should be I think). But when you start to read on a couple of forums there are some things that makes you wonder. I've been reading serious press mostly so it's confusing me a bit.

And to go back in the archives to catch up would take a lot of time; time I don't want to spend on it...I will just follow my gut feeling; usually works for me . And I don't really want to explore it anyway; it isn't important to me because they haven't got anything to do with what happened that night (as far as I am concerned) and to me they are very much victims also.

Anyway; I'm hoping that this opinion doesn't mean I will be banned from SM  (I've been warned by some posters at RU...probably the ones that worship Joran and really dislike Beth ...I like this forum.

GBMW ... what "things"?

Janet

Hi Janet,

when you 'read around' there are posts that Beth / the family lied, manipulated...well just about everything .
To give you an example...a recent thing: if Jorans confession is true in general (which she believes) why isn't Beth 'mad' at Daury but seems to express anger only towards Joran in interviews?

Daury is the one that dumped Natalee in the ocean; and in that way the possible murderer of Natalee. Of course Joran was the one that was with Natalee and didn't get help; he started the whole cover up & lied about it for years - made money of it...

But Daury is the one who disposed of Natalee....the one that actually threw her daughter in the ocean while Joran was walking home / chatting / downloading porn. And yet she doesn't mention any anger in her recent press towards him. She did state in the Peter R. de Vries show 'Look at what they've done' but after this it seems she stayed quiet concerning Daury.....


Maybe she's only doing this because Joran is the only one she knows the true identity of and the one who holds a big responsibility...maybe she doubts the Daurypart in the confession...could all be...but it seems a bit weird.

My guess is Beth doesn't believe the Daury story at all.  She probably believes the person who helped him was his father.  Beth has already given her opinion of PVDS as has Peter R. di Vries 

That could be an explanation indeed...only a dad would probably tell someone to go to school the next day...not a criminal youngster
Was Peter R. de Vries very negative about Paulus in the American press? In Holland he usually only mentioned the things that he could back up...although his looks towards Joran and his dad at the Pauw & Wittemanshow sometimes said more than a thousand words . I have nothing to do with it...sitting at home and I got chills seeing some of his looks....brrrr.

I imagine Beth got chills listening to Joran recite that the only care he provided Natalee was "to shake the bitch," or when he mimicked Natalee's shaking, or when he said he ordered her dumped in the ocean, dead or alive, he didn't care, it didn't matter, he didn't bother to find out. And the poor little boy and his daddy had to withstand those harsh looks from a reporter. Perspective is everything

[Rob]

personally, I have no doubt that Joran and all knew Natalee was dead when whatever became of her. No one just disappears a living person. There was a reason for that...

[JE]

GBMW

''Anyway; I'm hoping that this opinion doesn't mean I will be banned from SM  (I've been warned by some posters at RU...probably the ones that worship Joran and really dislike Beth ...I like this forum.''

Hello GBMW you can't be banned for you own opinion, this forum is very fair.

Blonde ... I am proud to call myself a Monkey because the SM Natalee forum upholds the family in their ongoing quest for answers into the disappearance of their beloved Natalee.

I may not always agree with some opinions/speculations regarding the case and ... that is OK.

However ... I am not tolerate of opinions which undermine Beth, Jug and Dave's motives, words or actions.  I am not tolerant of opinions that uphold the Aruban investigation.  I am not tolerant of opinions that distance Paulus and Joran van der Sloot from implication in the events that encompass the morning of May 30, 2005.

I have left two forums that in time evolved into places that embraced/tolerated differing opinions that included undermining the motives, words and actions of the family of Natalee Holloway ... upholding the corrupt Aruban investigation and ... distancing Paulus and Joran's role in the disappearance of an 18 year old American citizen.

Morally ... I had no choice but to leave those two Natalee Forums.  Staying would have implied a betrayal to a family who has been on a roller coaster ride from H--- since May 30, 2005 compliments of an established Aruban coverup to protect their own.

Janet

If the ultimate goal is truth, one should not be afraid to explore all possible scenarios regardless of people concerned or loyalties based on ones perception of afore mentioned truth. Truth is based on facts not emotions. This being said it does not mean i disagree with you.

JE ... in my opinion ... a dialogue that shifts the focus of attention from the main suspects and the corrupt Aruban investigation ... to the family of the victim ... the family who were not on the Island when Natalee Holloway went missing ... is a distraction from the truth that encompassing the events of May 30, 2005.

Joran, Deepak and Satish were the last persons observed with Natalee Holloway.  Joran, Deepak and Satish lied regarding their final encounter with Natalee Holloway.  Lies are created to cover the truth which implies that Joran, Deepak and Satish know the truth.

Think about it ... Joran, Deepak and Satish must have been aware that Natalee Holloway was deceased when they related the Holiday Inn dropoff.  Logic dictates that these guys would not collaborate an account that could be refuted if Natalee were to turn up.

Janet

Logic dictates that these guys would not collaborate an account that could be refuted if Natalee were to turn up.

If she turned up all previous would be meaningless. I paniced and made up a story would be accepted but not even relevant if she turned up. Just a few kids lying for whatever reason. But she didn't turn up. I am not that sure about kalpoes knowing the truth, more inclined to believe that joran knows the truth. The point i was trying to make is that it does not matter what I or you believe. That's just venting personal opinion based on personal perception. Ther's just so many loose ends in this case. We need facts not opinions. And in that light you should read my comment about exploring all possible scenarios. Speculation or opinions won't get a conviction. The truth is out there. Like the codetalkers said hidden in plain sight. I can't see it yet and that pi$%es me off. It's there and someone will make the connection someday. All i meant with previous post was: keep an open mind things are never black n white. Question everything.

[private eye]

I agree 100%. The only black and white fact in this case is that Joran is guilty and a liar:)

[GBMW]

Joran is responsible. Daury acted at Joran's request, in his story. And yes, once Daury is determined to be real, and his identity is known, then she will hold him responsible. If she hated every character in Joran's resume of stories, she would be very busy. I am a little confused with what you are trying to imply. Should Dauby mitigate her anger for Joran or his responsibility? Are you implying she is blaming the wrong person? That it is daury that she should hold responsible? I am not disagreeing, but it is obvious you have a position that you wish to establish, and I am not disagreeing, but I can't quite follow it

Cut some of the post (otherwise it would be very long).
I meant she hardly (if she did at all) mentioned him in recent press while his huge contribution is obviously there.
I do think that if Natalee was still alive the person that threw her in the ocean is the murderer and Joran an accomplice. That doesn't say anything about the way I feel about the rest of Jorans actions though 

Don't know for sure if Joran asked Daury to dump Natalee? Was that piece in the confession clear?
If Daury is Paulus; one could think that his dad would have said something like: help me get her in this boat and go home.

[JE]

And Janet my personal opinion:
Did he kill her: I can't say for sure
Does he know more: YES
Should he face repercussions if only for the way he acted on de vries tapes: YES

But then that's just my opinion and it's worth squat

[GBMW]

GBMW

RU is not really an information seeking forum.  Any "real" info is disseminated in the "hidey hole" or other "secret/private" sites and then PM'd to certain posters to disseminate dis information.  The Gielen trash was tested there before it ever hit the airwaves.  Believe it or not, there are some more reasonable posters there now, then there ever used to be. It's a "read only" site, for me.  You've held your own pretty well, so far. Good luck.

Thanks for your post Buckeye. I've learned a bit about RU (very quickly ...) but this gives some more insight. I'm someone that believes Joran was heavily involved in the dissapearance / death of Natalee and that his father & friends (Jorans and his fathers') helped him to cover it up. I don't believe in a total corrupt investigation though.

And it seems there are some weird things concerning the Holloway / Twitty's also. I'm Dutch and the media here haven't given her / the family a lot of attention because their focus (if there was media attention for the case) is on the case itself / the suspects (as it should be I think). But when you start to read on a couple of forums there are some things that makes you wonder. I've been reading serious press mostly so it's confusing me a bit.

And to go back in the archives to catch up would take a lot of time; time I don't want to spend on it...I will just follow my gut feeling; usually works for me . And I don't really want to explore it anyway; it isn't important to me because they haven't got anything to do with what happened that night (as far as I am concerned) and to me they are very much victims also.

Anyway; I'm hoping that this opinion doesn't mean I will be banned from SM  (I've been warned by some posters at RU...probably the ones that worship Joran and really dislike Beth ...I like this forum.

GBMW ... what "things"?

Janet

Hi Janet,

when you 'read around' there are posts that Beth / the family lied, manipulated...well just about everything .
To give you an example...a recent thing: if Jorans confession is true in general (which she believes) why isn't Beth 'mad' at Daury but seems to express anger only towards Joran in interviews?

Daury is the one that dumped Natalee in the ocean; and in that way the possible murderer of Natalee. Of course Joran was the one that was with Natalee and didn't get help; he started the whole cover up & lied about it for years - made money of it...

But Daury is the one who disposed of Natalee....the one that actually threw her daughter in the ocean while Joran was walking home / chatting / downloading porn. And yet she doesn't mention any anger in her recent press towards him. She did state in the Peter R. de Vries show 'Look at what they've done' but after this it seems she stayed quiet concerning Daury.....


Maybe she's only doing this because Joran is the only one she knows the true identity of and the one who holds a big responsibility...maybe she doubts the Daurypart in the confession...could all be...but it seems a bit weird.

My guess is Beth doesn't believe the Daury story at all.  She probably believes the person who helped him was his father.  Beth has already given her opinion of PVDS as has Peter R. di Vries 

That could be an explanation indeed...only a dad would probably tell someone to go to school the next day...not a criminal youngster
Was Peter R. de Vries very negative about Paulus in the American press? In Holland he usually only mentioned the things that he could back up...although his looks towards Joran and his dad at the Pauw & Wittemanshow sometimes said more than a thousand words . I have nothing to do with it...sitting at home and I got chills seeing some of his looks....brrrr.

I imagine Beth got chills listening to Joran recite that the only care he provided Natalee was "to shake the bitch," or when he mimicked Natalee's shaking, or when he said he ordered her dumped in the ocean, dead or alive, he didn't care, it didn't matter, he didn't bother to find out. And the poor little boy and his daddy had to withstand those harsh looks from a reporter. Perspective is everything

You probably misunderstood my post? I wasn't implying that I felt sorry for Joran and his father / mother...

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Janet,

when you 'read around' there are posts that Beth / the family lied, manipulated...well just about everything .
To give you an example...a recent thing: if Jorans confession is true in general (which she believes) why isn't Beth 'mad' at Daury but seems to express anger only towards Joran in interviews?

Daury is the one that dumped Natalee in the ocean; and in that way the possible murderer of Natalee. Of course Joran was the one that was with Natalee and didn't get help; he started the whole cover up & lied about it for years - made money of it...

But Daury is the one who disposed of Natalee....the one that actually threw her daughter in the ocean while Joran was walking home / chatting / downloading porn. And yet she doesn't mention any anger in her recent press towards him. She did state in the Peter R. de Vries show 'Look at what they've done' but after this it seems she stayed quiet concerning Daury.....


Maybe she's only doing this because Joran is the only one she knows the true identity of and the one who holds a big responsibility...maybe she doubts the Daurypart in the confession...could all be...but it seems a bit weird.

GBMW ... why do you have to analysis Beth's reaction.  Can you not just give this anguished mother the benefit of the doubt that her response has a foundation.

Joran was in a position to get help for her daughter who was in distress.  What did he do?  He call on an unknown assistance with a boat to take her out to sea and dump her.  In otherwords ... a hitman.

It makes perfect sense to me that Beth's anger would be focused on Joran.  Joran put the chain of events into motion that led to Natalee's death ... Natalee's disappearance.

Janet


++++++++++++

Holloway Suspect: 'I Know What Happened'
Dutch Student Said Natalee Holloway's Body Was Dumped in the Ocean
February 3, 2008

In one taped conversation, van der Sloot told van der Eem that Holloway visibly convulsed "like a movie," that she was shaking "a lot."
 
"Did you try CPR on her?" asked van der Eem.
 
"Of course, I tried everything," van der Sloot said. "I tried to shake her. I was shaking the bitch. I was like, 'What is wrong with you man?' I almost wanted to cry. Why does this s*** have to happen to me?"

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4222253&page

[GBMW]

I think I need caesu.  There is a pdf link at the bottom of the article I'm going to post (I can't figure out the direct pdf link).  Click on Job Cohen over...... I am quoting part of the translation from page 11 of the pdf.  It explains the OM job in Aruba.  I don't think Mos is in charge of anything.  I think only the Aruban OM is (?Lugo?). Did I get this correct??

The Dutch OM has aligned itself
No interference with criminal cases moving
Play to the overseas islands. That the
Dutchman Hans Mos in the broadcast
Peter R. De Vries statements made about Joran
Van der Sloot is verklaarbaar. The Chief
Works for the Aruban OM.
And it has been let for Aruban
Know that the research is a re -
Started.

and what is verklaarbaar ??     

verklaarbaar means explicable

[Buckeye]

JE  thanks for translation.

GBMW (and JE)

I have never wasted my time analyzing actions of Natalee's family when they were not on the island and could not have been involved in her loss.  My concern was for my petite, blonde, 105 pound, traveling-the-world, daughter (who can enjoy a wine or two).  I could see it happening to me and mine.  My daughter is wise but also interested in "cultural" experiences and different people.  Natalee's loss happened in four days of leaving home.  Whatever influence, power, resources they could or can muster....I say use everything available or offered. There are many that are not afforded as many resources but that does not make the family that has help, an inferior family.
I don't know what's in Beth's mind or heart but it was just over a month ago that a tip sent them to Nicaragua.  Imagine always having a doubt of what happened...what to do...where to search.  I think it is reasonable to have doubted Joran because of all his lies.  If he was innocent, this would have been over long ago. The big question was "was Natalee still alive somewhere".  We know she quoted Joran's early statements accurately because between the PVs and his book we have seen many. All she said is that "those three boys know more".  She was right.  Joran kept her with a 1% chance of "do I need to search forever"...until he demonstrated her daughters distress, on video.  It doesn't matter who did the "final" disposal.  Her mother's instincts and the material many PIs, investigative reporters and profilers gathered was accurate.  Joran knew what happened to Natalee and did not care about anyone still searching for her. She pleaded with him the first night, she pleaded with his friend, she pleaded with his parents. Joran deserves every angry word directed at him. If he had said on day one, she seized and I gave her to a boat guy, she would have searched for Natalee by searching out the boat guy.   It's all about Natalee.

[KYcat]

This is certainly only my opinion and if it is inappropriate, please feel free to delete.  I don't know a lot about posting at forums, actually I don't know ANYTHING about posting.  I just know that I have followed this case from the very start and it broke my heart and filled me with such outrage at the injustice of it all.  I don't feel like I am part of the SM group but I feel comfortable here reading and learning.  I have read at other forums and one in particular is filled with such hate and venom for Natalee and her family that it sickens me to read there.  I just can't believe some of the vile things said there and don't understand how anyone could possibly feel that way about Natalee and her family since they are the victims in this situation. 

Just the fact that Joran and PVDs said they "know more but won't tell it now because it would hurt certain people".  Unbelievable!!  A young woman is missing/murdered, her family is devasted, and the Sloots are worried about hurting certain people!  WHO?  WHO CARES!  This family has been HURT beyond comprehension.  Not one of the suspects has been held accountable for any of their lies and actions.  People think Beth has acted inappropriately.  Give me a break.  Beth and Dave, etal, have done exactly what all parents should do - FIGHT LIKE HELL FOR JUSTICE FOR THEIR DAUGHTER!

Just my opinion - like I said you can delete if you want - I don't know where to post what so this might not even be the place to post the above comments. 

Thanks for letting me vent 




 

[private eye]

This is certainly only my opinion and if it is inappropriate, please feel free to delete.  I don't know a lot about posting at forums, actually I don't know ANYTHING about posting.  I just know that I have followed this case from the very start and it broke my heart and filled me with such outrage at the injustice of it all.  I don't feel like I am part of the SM group but I feel comfortable here reading and learning.  I have read at other forums and one in particular is filled with such hate and venom for Natalee and her family that it sickens me to read there.  I just can't believe some of the vile things said there and don't understand how anyone could possibly feel that way about Natalee and her family since they are the victims in this situation. 

Just the fact that Joran and PVDs said they "know more but won't tell it now because it would hurt certain people".  Unbelievable!!  A young woman is missing/murdered, her family is devasted, and the Sloots are worried about hurting certain people!  WHO?  WHO CARES!  This family has been HURT beyond comprehension.  Not one of the suspects has been held accountable for any of their lies and actions.  People think Beth has acted inappropriately.  Give me a break.  Beth and Dave, etal, have done exactly what all parents should do - FIGHT LIKE HELL FOR JUSTICE FOR THEIR DAUGHTER!

Just my opinion - like I said you can delete if you want - I don't know where to post what so this might not even be the place to post the above comments. 

Thanks for letting me vent 




 

I bet if you asked the monkeys they would tell you that you are a part of the group, a much needed and wanted poster. I appreciate you:)