Natalee Case Discussion #745 3/25 - 4/4/08

[caesu]

* Mosko: Kalpoe brothers also summoned - for cross-examination about alibi provided for Joran

* Joran is indeed staying at Altrecht, Den Dolder - as reported by tabloid Privé

* Mosko: in civil case there is no absolute right to keep silent

* Mosko: Peter R. and Patrick also summoned to show there is no doubt possible about the undercover operation.

all this from Telegraaf newspaper
http://www.telegraaf.nl/

It appears that Beth Holloway has her doubt regarding the Devries' video recording.

I hope I am wrong but ... I have been suspicious from the getgo that Devries, Eem,  VDS' and the "powers that be" in Aruba have collaborated the "fifth" segment of the video recording?

Peter Devries insistence that the case was "solved" while the video recording only implied that Natalee Holloway was deceased and ... Joran was present when she died of an apparent seizure has never set right with me.

the summoning of peter r. and patrick van der eem is to remove any doubt about the legality of the undercover operation says Mosko in the Telegraaf article.

i hope Mosko will appear on one of the talk shows today or tomorrow to explain everything.
because such a civil case is as far as i know the first one the netherlands.

but the dutch news at the moment is still occupied with topics related to the Wilders anti-quran film.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet, remember back when Mos said they had an undercover operation on-going? What ever happened to that??? Is he referring to this event with Van Der Eem? or is this a separate thing all together?

Rob ... I believe that Hans Mos was referring to the wiretape that was conducted in regards to a chat room conversation which initiated the November, 2007 arrests of Joran, Deepak and Satish.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++

Holloway Prosecutor to Seek New Arrest Warrant
Aruban Prosecutor to Appeal a Judge's Decision Denying Him a Warrant for Joran Van der Sloot

By CHRIS FRANCESCANI
ABC News Law & Justice Unit
Feb. 4, 2008

Last May, a fresh team of police investigators and prosecutors headed by Mos took over the vexing case in the hope that new eyes would find new leads to follow. That same month, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, who were with Van der Sloot the night he met Holloway, were briefly rearrested and a surprise search was conducted of their home, a modest, neon-green, single-story house near the base of Hooiberg Mountain.

During the May search of the home, investigators allegedly planted bugs there so they could monitor the brothers' conversations, defense attorneys claimed.

Because of information gleaned from those wiretaps, all three men were rearrested last fall, but were all released for lack of evidence. Late last year, Mos announced that the case would be closed, essentially admitting defeat.

It was after that December release that De Vries' undercover investigation began in earnest.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/2020/Story?id=4239135&page=3


Aruban defense attorneys dispute alleged evidence in Holloway case
The Associated Press Published: December 21, 2007

ORANJESTAD, Aruba: A suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway never mentioned her death in an online chat, his lawyer said Friday, contradicting Aruban prosecutors who called the comment key new evidence in the case.

The chat log fell far short of justifying the arrest of Deepak Kalpoe, one of three men seen with the American teen the night of her disappearance, said attorney Ronald Wix.

A court in the Dutch Caribbean island agreed and quickly released Kalpoe, along with brother Satish and a third suspect, Joran van der Sloot. Now, authorities should leave the three men alone, Wix told reporters.

"If they as much as look at our clients too long, we'll take them to court," said Wix, who also represents Satish Kalpoe.

The three suspects were seen leaving a bar with Holloway on the final night of her high school graduation trip to the island.

Aruban prosecutors detailed the chat log for the first time Thursday, saying it was a key clue that they hoped would break open the long-stalled investigation. The men did not speak with investigators while detained and a judge ordered their release for lack of evidence.

Upon their release, authorities said they had reached a dead end after two years of pursuing fruitless searches and leads, though they could still prosecute the men if they uncover evidence.

In discussing the online chat, prosecutor Hans Mos told reporters that one of the suspects — he did not disclose which — wrote that Holloway, 18 at the time of disappearance, was dead. He also said Internet messages among two suspects discussed meeting drunk American girls in Aruba.

Wix said the prosecution misinterpreted Deepak Kalpoe's Internet chats.

The 24-year-old native of Suriname in fact told a friend he was upset and thought it was stupid of him to let Holloway, whom he called a drunk stranger, get into his car, the attorney said.

Kalpoe then commented on the death of a tennis teacher who drowned in Aruba almost three years ago. When prosecutors translated his writing from Papiamento to Dutch, they substituted 'the death' to 'her death,' and assumed he was talking about Holloway, Wix said. Most Arubans speak Papiamento, a Creole language that has absorbed words from Spanish, Dutch, English and Portuguese.

Mos was on vacation Friday and could not be reached for a response. Another prosecutor, Dop Kruimel, did not immediately return phone calls seeking comment.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/21/news/CB-GEN-Aruba-Missing-Teen.php

[jackb]

[qu
What does *in hiding* mean to the rest of you?   Those were the words said to me....also was told that Holland doesn't even know where the *secret place* he is being kept...yes, those words were used too...*secret place*...well...to me, it sounds like his family knows that he can be arrested...and are doing everything they can to keep that from happening....

Would like to hear your thoughts on this...I think this is part of the reason everything is so quiet right now...but this is JMOHO...

JMHO - is it possible that he isn't using some kind of cell phone to communicate with members of his family and friends?  Is it possible to be in a secret place using a cell phone?  Is it possible that he hasn't spoken to anyone for months? 

Could he be in hiding from his family, former-friends, the Aruban mob, and others?  Perhaps he has been subjected not only to youtubes, but to threats of harm?  Maybe someone has kidnapped him for ransom?

LOL....only in my dreams.
I think it's very possible that joran is in hiding WITH his parent's and ALE and prosecutors knowledge.
[/quote]

i agree that he's probably hiding with his parents/ale/klpd's knowledge.  he could be making his calls on a "pay as you go" phone.  they don't have to be registered to anyone.
dennisintn
[/quote]
I agree,he could use one of those pay as you go phones.....I don't think they can be traced or tracked.Who would want to track joran anyway....not ALE,not Mos.
[/quote]  We do.  Also the rest of them.  Someone better because chances are he and some of the rest will strike again.  Jackb

[Tamikosmom]

Janet...I want to let you know, how much I appreciate your posts.  They are always so well written...that takes a lot of dedication, and time on your part....Thank You!

You are welcome Destiny.

If Natalee receives a measure of justice and ... her family members receive a measure of closure in their ongoing nightmare ... every minute I have spent researching this case will be well worth it.

Janet

[jackb]

i wonder if they ran that whole l.9 million through aruba's banks and how much of the island and it's politicians do they own.  personally, i would have picked another laundry.  i just haven't seen that much to recommend aruba for more than 3 days at a time every l0 years or so.
dennisintn

As they say: "it takes a village."

And...all the villages, missing their *idiots* need look no farther, than Aruba...

Hey Joran...your village called...they want their idiot back...

  LOL.  Go get 'em girl.   jackb

[jackb]

They won't be allowed to give their "testimony" in Aruba, will they?  Please tell me the "judge" will be in the Netherlands.

Judge "Nit" Witt is in the NL because he went to some higher court, probably so he could block anything that came that way.  It is my understanding that he is there.  What kind of cases he handles or if he could interefere with anything is only anyones guess.   Jackb

[katrien]

http://www.crimesite.nl/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6972

The news is coming slowly, maybe because the first news was in the afternoon.
Maybe more tomorrow.

Moszkowicz.

[jackb]

Great news!

Thanks GBMW and caesu! Under oath, after all this time, i can't believe it.

Do you think Bram has been in contact with Mos? Would Bram have done this if the investigation was still alive?

great news hope this case can come to fruition the VDS have been i step ahead all the time. Joran in a psych institiute is a set up for the next phase in which he will  try to claim insanity or mental distress of some sort which he will claim he wasnt reponcible for his actions at the time of Natalees death. I hope all can be deposed in a civil case including those that have run off to Holland,,netherlands and even Joran in Germany.  I read back on the last thread that Deepak is living in MIami??? Is that a typo and when did that occur.
I thought he was back at this job on aruba. If he lives in the usa why cant he be deposed there on us soil? He will get no sympathy here in the usa. Hed be better off in aruba where the judge whit can protect him or is something else up?

He is no more crazy than the rest of them.  How many crazy houses do they have?
It may be at capacity before to awful long.  It is time to realize it was a group effort there and if that whole daggone place is crazy.  No one needs to go for sure.  It is like they dumped 80 thousand crazy people there?  I think not.  Even if 14 percent (11,200 say at 80000 people) are alcohol and/ are drug abusers, does it mean there are not a few sane people there?  I would get away from that freaking place so quick it would give jet lag on a ship.  That is what the payment of SIN is.  That is what happens when people think they know more than God and try to let their children raise themselves and do not teach the word of God with respect and honor.  No, there is not a lot left for sane people there.  Good people seem to be a target there.  Is this a sign of the times?  Maybe.  Jack b

[Buckeye]

http://www.crimesite.nl/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6972

The news is coming slowly, maybe because the first news was in the afternoon.
Maybe more tomorrow.

Moszkowicz.

Thanks katrien.  Good to see you again.

[Tamikosmom]

the summoning of peter r. and patrick van der eem is to remove any doubt about the legality of the undercover operation says Mosko in the Telegraaf article.

i hope Mosko will appear on one of the talk shows today or tomorrow to explain everything.

because such a civil case is as far as i know the first one the netherlands.

but the dutch news at the moment is still occupied with topics related to the Wilders anti-quran film.

Geert Wilder's speech to Holland's Parliament
Posted March 11th, 2008 in Military News

Madam Speaker, allow me, first, to express my sincere thanks to you personally for having planned a debate on Islam on the very day of my birthday. I could not have wished for a nicer present! Madam Speaker, approximately 1400 years ago war was declared on us by an ideology of hate and violence which arose at the time and was proclaimed by a barbarian who called himself the Prophet Mohammed. I am referring to Islam.

Madam Speaker, let me start with the foundation of the Islamic faith, the Koran. The Koran's core theme is about the duty of all Muslims to fight non-Muslims; an Islamic Mein Kampf, in which fight means war, jihad. The Koran is above all a book of war "“ a call to butcher non-Muslims (2:191, 3:141, 4:91, 5:3), to roast them (4:56, 69:30-69:32), and to cause bloodbaths amongst them (47:4). Jews are compared to monkeys and pigs (2:65, 5:60, 7:166), while people who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God must according to the Koran be fought (9:30).

Madam Speaker, the West has no problems with Jews or Christians, but it does have problems with Islam. It is still possible, even today, for Muslims to view the Koran, which they regard as valid for all time, as a licence to kill. And that is exactly what happens. The Koran is worded in such a way that its instructions are addressed to Muslims for eternity, which includes today's Muslims. This in contrast to texts in the Bible, which is formulated as a number of historical narratives, placing events in a distant past. Let us remind ourselves that it was Muslims, not Jews or Christians, who committed the catastrophic terrorist attacks in New York, Madrid and London; and that it was no coincidence that Theo van Gogh was brutally murdered by a Muslim, Mohammed Bouyeri.

Madam Speaker, I acknowledge that there are people who call themselves Muslims and who respect our laws. My party, the Freedom Party, has nothing against such people, of course. However, the Koran does have something against them. For it is stated in the Koran in Sura 2, verse 85, that those believers who do not believe in everything the Koran states will be humiliated and receive the severest punishment; which means that they will roast in Hell. In other words, people who call themselves Muslims but who do not believe, for example, in Sura 9, verse 30, which states that Jews and Christians must be fought, or, for example, in Sura 5, verse 38, which states that the hand of a thief must be cut off, such people will be humiliated and roast in Hell. Note that it is not me who is making this up. All this can be found in the Koran. The Koran also states that Muslims who believe in only part of the Koran are in fact apostates, and we know what has to happen to apostates. They have to be killed.

Madam Speaker, the Koran is a book that incites to violence. I remind the House that the distribution of such texts is unlawful according to Article 132 of our Penal Code. In addition, the Koran incites to hatred and calls for murder and mayhem. The distribution of such texts is made punishable by Article 137(e). The Koran is therefore a highly dangerous book; a book which is completely against our legal order and our democratic institutions. In this light, it is an absolute necessity that the Koran be banned for the defence and reinforcement of our civilisation and our constitutional state. I shall propose a second-reading motion to that effect.

Madam Speaker, there is no such thing as "moderate Islam".... As Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan said the other day, and I quote, "There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that's it".... Islam is in pursuit of dominance. It wishes to exact its imperialist agenda by force on a worldwide scale (8:39). This is clear from European history. Fortunately, the first Islamic invasion of Europe was stopped at Poitiers in 732; the second in Vienna in 1683. Madam Speaker, let us ensure that the third Islamic invasion, which is currently in full spate, will be stopped too in spite of its insidious nature and notwithstanding the fact that, in contrast to the 8th and 17th centuries, it has no need for an Islamic army because the scared "dhimmis" in the West, also those in Dutch politics, have left their doors wide open to Islam and Muslims.

Apart from conquest, Madam Speaker, Islam is also bent on installing a totally different form of law and order, namely Sharia law. This makes Islam, apart from a religion for hundreds of millions of Muslims also, and in particular, a political ideology (with political/constitutional/Islamic basic values, etc). Islam is an ideology without any respect for others; not for Christians, not for Jews, not for non-believers and not for apostates. Islam aims to dominate, subject, kill and wage war.

Madam Speaker, the Islamic incursion must be stopped. Islam is the Trojan Horse in Europe. If we do not stop Islamification now, Eurabia and Netherabia will just be a matter of time. One century ago, there were approximately 50 Muslims in the Netherlands. Today, there are about 1 million Muslims in this country. Where will it end? We are heading for the end of European and Dutch civilisation as we know it. Where is our Prime Minister in all this? In reply to my questions in the House he said, without batting an eyelid, that there is no question of our country being Islamified. Now, this reply constituted
a historical error as soon as it was uttered. Very many Dutch citizens, Madam Speaker, experience the presence of Islam around them. And I can report that they have had enough of burkas, headscarves, the ritual slaughter of animals, so-called honour revenge, blaring minarets, female circumcision, hymen restoration operations, abuse of homosexuals, Turkish and Arabic on the buses and trains as well as on town hall leaflets, halal meat at grocery shops and department stores, Sharia exams, the Finance Minister's Sharia mortgages, and the enormous overrepresentation of Muslims in the area of crime, including Moroccan street terrorists.

In spite of all this, Madam Speaker, there is hope. Fortunately. The majority of Dutch citizens have become fully aware of the danger, and regard Islam as a threat to our culture. My party, the Freedom Party, takes those citizens seriously and comes to their defence.

Many Dutch citizens are fed up to the back teeth and yearn for action. However, their representatives in The Hague are doing precisely nothing. They are held back by fear, political correctness or simply electoral motives. This is particularly clear in the case of PvdA, the Dutch Labour Party, which is afraid of losing Muslim voters. The Prime Minister said in Indonesia the other day that Islam does not pose any danger. Minister Donner believes that Sharia law should be capable of being introduced in the Netherlands if the majority want it. Minister Vogelaar babbles about the future Netherlands as a country with a Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, and that she aims to help Islam take root in Dutch society. In saying this, the Minister shows that she has obviously gone stark raving mad. She is betraying Dutch culture and insulting Dutch citizens.

Madam Speaker, my party, the Freedom Party, demands that Minister Vogelaar retract her statement. If the Minister fails to do so, the Freedom Party parliamentary group will withdraw its support for her. No Islamic tradition must ever be established in the Netherlands: not now and also not in a few centuries' time.

Madam Speaker, let me briefly touch on the government's response to the WRR [Netherlands Scientific Council for Government Policy] report. On page 12 of its response, the government states that Islam is not contrary to democracy or human rights. All I can say to that is that things can't get much more idiotic than this.

Madam Speaker, it is a few minutes to twelve. If we go on like this, Islam will herald the end of our Western civilisation as well as Dutch culture.

I would like to round off my first-reading contribution with a personal appeal to the Prime Minister on behalf of a great many Dutch citizens: stop the Islamification of the Netherlands!

Mr Balkenende, a historic task rests on your shoulders. Be courageous. Do what many Dutch citizens are screaming out for. Do what the country needs. Stop all immigration from Muslim countries, ban all building of new mosques, close all Islamic schools, ban burkas and the Koran. Expel all criminal Muslims from the country, including those Moroccan street terrorists that drive people mad. Accept your responsibility! Stop Islamification!

Enough is enough, Mr Balkenende. Enough is enough.

http://www.navyseals.com/geert-wilders-speech-hollands-parliament

http://www.michaelsavage.com/savage-geert-wilders.html

[Destiny]

Diarios' online stats as of right now....seems to be a lot of interest from the Netherlands...I know the visits today number is wrong...before I refreshed the page it was around 3,000


 Mar   Apr 08   May
S   M   T   W   T   F   S
      1     2     3     4     5
  6     7     8     9   10   11   12
13   14   15   16   17   18   19
20   21   22   23   24   25   26
27   28   29   30   
VLSI High Level Synthesis
Statistics
Visits yesterday:    2613
Visits today:    0
Visits total:    279387
Today 's Top 5
    43 %    Netherlands
    24 %    Aruba
    22 %    Unknown
    7 %    networks
    4 %    Commercial
We have 51 guests and 7 members online

[jackb]

Good Morning, nice to see Beth move forward on the civil case... very very nice. I'm for anything that causes the Sloots pain... lots and lots of pain. And maybe even death.

I guess I always thought, in the back of my mind, that Joran's disappearing act was orchestrated to protect him from Bram Moskovitz. That guy put the fear of God in Paulus... you can just tell. That guy is a real attorney, not a make-believe legal huckster like Paulus and his cronies. I doubt Anita will be getting away with her normal shenanigans. And Valentijn was interviewed prior to Joran's re-detention... so I imagine he's fair game too. So much for his education, which the Sloots will claim is being interrupted. LOL!

In the end, the Sloots will claim some type of financial insolvency, but their banking records will be exposed and everyone will find out that they have never paid one dime to any of these attorneys. After-all, the Sloots are civil servants and not millionaires. That's what they'll claim, but I doubt anyone will believe it. That's a beautiful thing. Unless they try to give it the ole closed door treatment that Aruba has claimed so many times.

I hope Beth and Dave sue the Aruban Authorities also. That's where the money is - or what's left of it. I would love to see them sue for 500 million. Aruba would lose and unfortunately the Dutch will not allow a judgment with an astronomical award to proceed, because they would have to bail them out. I say drag in everyone on that damm island.

So, take your victories where you can even if it just ends up being a moral and emotional one.

Joran and Paulus will be convicted in a court and there will be no more Taco raving and raving there is no evidence.

Wonder if Taco has applied for his reciprocal Dutch law license? He's an international jackass ya know!!!

  Yes he is.  That is a really good one.   jackb

[jackb]

Trudy


BIG PIMPIN'

Rob......did you find anything more than what I posted in the Shango thread?

I am interested on her being fired in March of 2005, per Charles Croes, and if she is in St, Maarten. Your search skills and resources are way better than mine and am hoping there is more!...TIA

  Yes, she is the great pumpkin.  Also she used to be big.   jackb

[jackb]

Thanks caesu and GBMW...Will Bram be able to review the files in Aruba?  TIA

caesu...any more on Rudy or Hendrik Croes...I am looking for something that puts Rudy in the Netherlands the end of May to June 3rd 2005.  TIA

i am still trying to find as much as possible on the Croes brothers.

did a quick search but could not locate him in the netherlands in that period.

then procureur-generaal Theresa Croes-Fernandes was however in the netherlands around that period.

end of june there was the half yearly tripartite summit between the three justice ministers, but this was in willemstad, curaçao.


http://www.korps-politie-suriname.com/nieuws/nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/archief%20nieuwsbronnen%20internationaal/archief%20nieuwsbronnen-internationaal.htm

caesu...thanks...I read a post that said he arrived back from the Netherlands on June 3rd and have so far only seen interviews from June 4th...I will keep looking also

I have been checking into his Police Commissioners...one Trudy Hassel, appears went to St. Maarten 2007.  If you want the info I can post later.

Have you tried under VULTURE brothers?   jackb

[jackb]

Trudy


BIG PIMPIN'

Rob......did you find anything more than what I posted in the Shango thread?

I am interested on her being fired in March of 2005, per Charles Croes, and if she is in St, Maarten. Your search skills and resources are way better than mine and am hoping there is more!...TIA

She is a pretty big gal.  Maybe she has her own zip code.   jackb

[Rob]

I agree with Geert Wilder's statement, all except the definition of "Jihad"... which means 'struggle' and has been perverted to mean war.

When I was in Holland I saw "dish city".. an apartment complex area that has sat dishes sticking out of every window. Funny how many people run to Holland, and the US for that matter, and then beam that crap into their homes. No desire to assimilate. That's what happens when people do not intend to ever become part of the main stream.

[Rob]

Diarios' online stats as of right now....seems to be a lot of interest from the Netherlands...I know the visits today number is wrong...before I refreshed the page it was around 3,000


 Mar   Apr 08   May
S   M   T   W   T   F   S
      1     2     3     4     5
  6     7     8     9   10   11   12
13   14   15   16   17   18   19
20   21   22   23   24   25   26
27   28   29   30   
VLSI High Level Synthesis
Statistics
Visits yesterday:    2613
Visits today:    0
Visits total:    279387
Today 's Top 5
    43 %    Netherlands
    24 %    Aruba
    22 %    Unknown
    7 %    networks
    4 %    Commercial
We have 51 guests and 7 members online

I've been checking 24 ORA and they have no clue what's going on still....just the usual stuff... car accidents and kissing MEP ass.

[Destiny]

Diarios' online stats as of right now....seems to be a lot of interest from the Netherlands...I know the visits today number is wrong...before I refreshed the page it was around 3,000


 Mar   Apr 08   May
S   M   T   W   T   F   S
      1     2     3     4     5
  6     7     8     9   10   11   12
13   14   15   16   17   18   19
20   21   22   23   24   25   26
27   28   29   30   
VLSI High Level Synthesis
Statistics
Visits yesterday:    2613
Visits today:    0
Visits total:    279387
Today 's Top 5
    43 %    Netherlands
    24 %    Aruba
    22 %    Unknown
    7 %    networks
    4 %    Commercial
We have 51 guests and 7 members online

I've been checking 24 ORA and they have no clue what's going on still....just the usual stuff... car accidents and kissing MEP ass.

I was shocked too when I contacted Diario...they were asking a *Monkey* for info....LOL!!!

[Destiny]

Any news from Jossy?   It's waaayyyy tooooo quiet...could be the lull before the storm...

[GBMW]

It would be nice to have a full translation of Anita's speeches at Pauw and Witteman.

Hi Buckeye - have you checked here...

http://www.hollowaycase.com/

igsigs

Great to see you.  Normally I use that site for lots of quotes.  This is the translation, from that site, of what Anita said:

Anita: Well, I was interrogated by the KLPD as well, for some four hours, but the questions were not directed at finding the truth, but at "Joran must hang".

Quite different than the JoFriday post.   

Buckeye:

here's my translation concerning Anita's quote in Pauw & Witteman:

And I want to tell something. I have been interrogated by the KLPD for four hours! I also remained silent. The questions were not aimed at finding the truth, but at "Jorannetje must hang, Jorannetje must hang". These questions were asked in such a suggestive way, a whole story...and...what do you think about this? The judge intervened numerous times, like, what are you doing? Mrs. van der Sloot is not the suspect here. I'm willing to talk, I have been willing to talk from the start. But from the start the Aruban interrogators questioned in such a way that the only purpose was to hang 3 boys, one of the three boys, or 2 boys as quickly as possible.