Natalee Case Discussion #745 3/25 - 4/4/08

[jackb]

Wednesday, March 26th, 2008

VICTIMS (online translator)

If ex-criminal pay attention me ate least say that I am a child ervaringsdeskundige the rights or victims or crime. Victims - as Natalee Holloway and the family - in the criminal justice virtually without rights. Among the intellectuals that most or the nieuwsaanbod care in our country, victims are usually hushed. Sometimes it seems hurry, or they themselves are guilty or a coincidence that they are in the path or their murderer, rapist or berover convicted. And lawyers for victims are or course a wonderful target to try to prevent the appalling act or their customer or a little humanity. That are a fixed part or their livelihood: black victims! The offender shines there. Just how soon after the disappearance or Natalee, rechterszoon Joran themselves on the shove came with the allegation that Natalee himself ash a horny girl behaved. Proudly he writes in his book how he came to the first meeting with the parents Aruba - while Natalee in the water were exactly cold - even father immediately took Holloway separately to explain that his daughter there liked or pulp. As if it is a crime that is a girl WHO just finished her examination, once the large flowers outside move.

After Joran known to me how he dumped her into the sea, the press were full or stories or intellectuals and lawyers WHO came to explain how prayed it are not what to Joran. Because the only victim that's always a destiny or support world turned in their, is the culprit. Illustrative for all or this were the column by the author framework Abdolah in the Volkskrant on the ' peter R. Vries-show '. Framework Abdolah showed a narrow... no, I must say limited thinker to be when it comes to victims and perpetrators & & debt penalty. In his whole story, the become ' victim ' is not a time for, pays attention alone the suffering that the Holloway's Joran them. "It felt not good"... "somewhere did it hurt"... "there were something inhuman"... "this are ugly and ethically forbidden". Those words or framework Abdolah fit all in the behaviour or Joran, not only for what he known, but also to hòe him about his act, Natalee, the police, judges and even his own father said. But the writer used them to our action to approve.

Kader Abdolah had so much compassion for Joran, which he himself get used up to all or its equal display without knowledge or the facts. According to him, there were things that happened not. "He has two months or a boy with booze and cocaine available to him to tallow to." Absolute nonsense. "He buys a friend or the boy." I am not bought and were not his friend, but a mole, because his enemies, the police and justice ' pitiful ' Joran his jaw tightly onto each other ash the most experienced and best instructed criminal.

For people WHO property no regard for victims are the hobbyhorse always that the perpetrator ' mentally ill ' and ' unstable '. Framework Abdolah ash the deeds or Joran tries to tallow. Too prayed for the victim! According to these people are the main action that it are never ' normal ' are a different thing if you terrible calls and therefore should not be "convicted" but helped.

But for those ' debt ground for exclusion ', as the lawyer gentlemen call it, you must really knettergek, simply do not know what you are doing. No sense or guilt. Such a total fool, yes, which should founded in a place or the cell. But a dear nursing for criminals or mentally unstable? Look, I say: what does an offender does not mentally with his victims? No, then I believe best a little retaliation. If I myself 15 years ago normal and stable? No! But the punishment or 11 months I property earned. That penalty were good. And it helped, because I decided that I never again in the shadow or a cell wild life. And how these tallow according hobbypsychiater Abdolah ' labile ' suspect Joran. Me pays attention give another example from my conversations with him, But I were just laughing eh, I property no coño said, Patrick! None coooñoo! I came there eh, okay, and my rights drawer drawer drawer, you do not property to answer. I property not even said "I appeal to my right to silence me." Agent that I property just looked right in his eyes, I property all the time leg no become from my mouth. "And when a judge spun him that he not talked to him the truth, spun this ' labile ' boy me how proud he responded: "I property nothing to declare when he (the judge)" I think that you know. I thought "this are bath". The only thing I said were: sorry ate all, I think it are very speculates that you ash a judge. To then along with his lawyer after enjoying how well he did not do.

But Kader Abdolah wonder how we a boy or 20 years so heavy pressure dare longer? Even if he are a perpetrator. "He argues that this" ugly and ethically forbidden, even if he are the real culprit.

This limited thinking just goes to show how outlawed victims. I will tell you something which are really surprising. In our world we rightly attach great importance to the rights or man. There's even a magnificent treaty that many countries in the western world property signed the Convention for the Protection or Human Rights and Fundamental Freedom. An ordinary citizen knows the importance or that treaty may not be good, but if ex-detainee, I know that it are so. That treaty are very important and powerful. And it sacrifices a great protection to fine suspects and prisoners. In fact, ash in our country justice or the lower court does something that are inconsistent with the rules in that treaty, the judge our own law should draw aside!

But you will not believe. In this whole convention the become ' victim ' but once are. And now, it's crazier people. That one time (Article 34) are not the victim or a crime, but it is actually referred to the suspect or offender, which are a violation or rules in that treaty victim or justice. It are dirty good that we property such a beautiful convention on the rights or man, for the rights or the accused, for the rights or the offender and detained. But it are no disgrace that our civilized society never really dares to work on the rights or the victim? Why do people like Kader Abdolah always that the civilized world are not, if we agree with its all US much more committed to the victim? When do agree that those rights treaty right, so that are good?! There are a destiny or work to be done to victims or crime better deal left for them to do, more often to them to score still than with how pathetic and annoying it are not everything for the perpetrators.

There are people WHO say that there are actually still nothing has leg resolved with this confession or Joran. That's only because they prefer to know every charge detail. Very happy to see a movie or everything that happened that night deliberate, because only then are the mystery for them completely solved. If course it are interesting to see the naadje or the more frosted to know WHO Joran really helped with the discharging or Natalee. If course it are strange if you never hear whether his father would ever be prosecuted for entering a phone call with - ash Joran cursed - far too little credit. But I can assure the parents or Natalee, after all this time to property listened to Joran, that the fate or their daughter what he are known to me. And that took their victims to this great uncertainty road and gave them the chance their lives back a little bit stable.

If Kader Abdolah his column ends with the words "pay attention US hope that Joran of of the ditch song about everything, and our help earlier than our hatred involved" than double meaning are that in false hope. False because it would be a shame if someone so numb to victims, to the police that he, in his own book, and then once again become to me, remains lie. False because the offender rather than the victim help need. It are true that hate are chignon, but keep in mind that a society that increasingly ignores the victim, false compassion and sow hatred harvest.

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

 

The guy is trey cool.  He seems on the total up and up.  He probably is a very good (above average) citizen, regardless of his prior.  He must have had some raising somewhere along the line.  I still would like him to come to the US.  Jackb

[klaasend]

Something about Nico Jorg and Rudy Croes here (in pap):

PROCURADOR GENERAL INTERINO NICO JÖRG A ENTREGA RETIRO ENTRANTE PROME DI JULI VENIDERO
on 25-03-2008 00:32
 

ORANJESTAD – Un informe oficial ricibi for di Ministerio Publico ta bisa cu siman pasa Procurador General interino Nico Jörg a entrega su retiro entrante prome di Juli 2008 cerca minister di Husticia Rudy Croes.

Mr. Jörg ta regresa pa su funcion di Abogado General na Corte Supremo na Den Haag. Inicialmente e tabata di keda dos luna mas na Aruba, te prome di September 2008. 

 

Den su carta pa minister Croes, e PG interino a pone cu nunca no tabata un secreto cu e tin gran deseo pa bolbe pa loke e ta considera e trabao mas bunita pa un hurista na Hulanda: esun di Abogado General na Corte Supremo. E chens a habri un biaha caba, pero e no tabata kier a laga Ministerio Publico na e momento ey. Awor atrobe e chens a presenta su mes. Mirando cu e mes kier tuma encargo di tur e casonan den e aña 2007/2008, el a palabra cu Procurador General di Corte Supremo di lo drenta den servicio na Juli 2008. 

 

Mr. Jörg a sirbi Aruba como Abogado General desde September 2005. Na Juli 2007, su nombracion a wordo alarga cu un aña, pa termina pues riba prome di September 2008.

http://www.extra.an/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1439&Itemid=31

Remember - Nico is the one who chastised PVDS
 
 

[Dihannah1]

There are some new posts on the sites of Patrick van der Eem & Peter R. de Vries!

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/

Thanks GBMW!  I'm having trouble finding the English versions of both. I thought I had them saved.....  help?

For Peter try www.peterrdevries.com

Also, Google Translator works good enough to get the main idea of what is posted in Dutch.

Thanks Klaas and Obs....   Klaas, remember when I opened the link a little while ago and it was in English on Patricks?  I remember showing you.  Hmmm, must have been just one blog he did in English.   

[klaasend]

There are some new posts on the sites of Patrick van der Eem & Peter R. de Vries!

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

http://www.peterrdevries.nl/

Thanks GBMW!  I'm having trouble finding the English versions of both. I thought I had them saved.....  help?

For Peter try www.peterrdevries.com

Also, Google Translator works good enough to get the main idea of what is posted in Dutch.

Thanks Klaas and Obs....   Klaas, remember when I opened the link a little while ago and it was in English on Patricks?  I remember showing you.  Hmmm, must have been just one blog he did in English.   

Yes, I do remember.  Patrick's spokesperson posts on that blog and he did post one article in English for American readers.

[Rob]

Hi Everyone!!!

Very nice that Beth called Vicki...I'm sure that lifted her spirits and made her feel good.

Does anyone know which colleges were going to try and "solve" the case?

[Rob]

Just reading 24ORA and it looks like yesterday was a day of total mayhem.

One aggressive turista detained. A few big fights. A bunch of car accidents. Typical chollers running amok.

The "aggressive" tourist looks like he get the bejeezers kicked out him. Aggressive turista = polis beating 

Hard to believe anyone wants to go to that zoo.

[Tamikosmom]

Thanks Klaas and Obs....   Klaas, remember when I opened the link a little while ago and it was in English on Patricks?  I remember showing you.  Hmmm, must have been just one blog he did in English.   

Yes, I do remember.  Patrick's spokesperson posts on that blog and he did post one article in English for American readers.

Quote from: klaasend on March 14, 2008, 02:41:29 AM

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

Friday, March 14th, 2008

Message for my American readers

Poentje Castro, a television reporter in Aruba, made a sneak recording of a private conversation with Patrick van der Eem, the insider in the Natalee Holloway case who recorded the confession of Joran van der Sloot during an undercover camera operation. The temptation to slyly record a private conversation with the man who is now famous in Holland and the USA for recording a criminal confession must have been just too much to resist.

However, his enthusiasm was to get the better of him. Keeping one camera rolling after the granted interview, the reporter forgot that you have to ask clear questions, and the answers – as the reporter now claims – should throw a different light on the case. In that sense the reporter failed. This was aggravated by biased editing of his material.

Both the aired preview and Castro himself were already facing heavy criticism on the front pages of Aruba’s newspapers. Due to the leading questioning and “clumsy” edits, the Aruban broadcaster decided not to air the complete interview, but rather fade the channel to black. Over the years, Castro has become known for his firm belief that Joran van der Sloot is not guilty, and currently fosters the speculative opinion that Joran must have made his confession up.

Due to the ongoing hype of the Natalee Holloway case in the Netherlands, the Dutch press unfortunately reported several of these suggestive statements, under the misconception that they represented hard news.

According to the Dutch translation from the original Papiamento (Aruba’s native tongue), Patrick says: “But I know who dumped the body in the sea…” in one fragment of the private conversation. While this hit the headlines, it is clear that Van der Eem was speculating, in a similar way to someone who says: “But I know that the New York Yankees will win the Superbowl this year”. Van Der Eem has a private opinion about who assisted Joran van der Sloot, but not the actual knowledge.

In another fragment that made headlines as hard news, Van der Eem is reported to have said: “because I already know him (Joran) for so many years”. However, at the end of the same sentence, he states that he knows Joran in flesh and blood only “for seven months” for the duration of the undercover operation plus aftermath. What he in fact says in the first part is that “he had already heard of him (Joran) for so many years”, as have so many of us since Natalee’s disappearance.

When Van der Eem tries to explain to the reporter that he gave the media the same information as he gave the police as a witness, the reporter edits the fragment in such a way that suggests Van der Eem paid the media and the police, which is patently complete nonsense, but has nevertheless been reported as a scoop by some Dutch media.

The above gives a clear impression of the lack of editorial and translational integrity of the recording of the private conversation, of the interview and of those fragments that have been broadcast. The clumsy translation from the Papiemento added further to this canard.

Castro has been attempting to sell his TV interview to numerous networks, both in the Netherlands and the USA. Before the broadcast, he also made an offer for Van Der Eem to buy the tapes, which was declined outright by his spokesman. Mr. Schouten: “He didn’t mean the costs to copy a DVD or for stamps. Mr. Castro wanted to receive a fee for the tapes. That’s like giving candy to a child that misbehaves. I have requested his lawyer now formally to send me these recordings from the first to the last second without any editing or cuts.”

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364956;topicseen#msg364956

[GBMW]

Hi everyone, hereby a post from a friend of mine she made last night on RU (on my nic). Had some question / remarks about it; so under her post I pasted some more info to explain some things....hope you all understand Wink


Should be free? No evidence doesn't mean he didn't have anything to do with it. And if he did have something to do with this he shouldn't be able to get away with it. Proof or no proof. It's just right & wrong.
I know it doesn't work that way according to the law...I'm just thinking as a human being. And evidence doesn't automatically mean a conviction either.

I've only been on this forum recently. The fact is I've met Joran a couple of times. A friend of mine lived near him. One day last summer Joran and his friends / housemates were sitting in the backyard and he was speaking about girls in a rude manner. Her grandparents were coming over and she didn't know what to do. It was a hot day & of course her grandparents wanted to sit outside. So I went over and sat with them. In an instant his way of talking changed...charming mode set in. Later I've met him in clubs in Arnhem a couple of times. As a real player the fact that I wasn't interested got his attention of course. After a while he got the message and left me alone.

And I will say this; I found him to be a nice guy. Joran has a great sense of humour (well of course that would depend on your own sense of humour) and is very likeable; easygoing. But he thinks the world evolves around him and if things don't go the way he wants it....well watch out. And what bothered me the most: he doesn't have a lot of respect (if any for most girls) for girls. His nicknames loverboy / player do him credit.

So from my own experience with the guy: I didn't want to date him or be friends with him. And even without Natalee Holloway case in the back of my mind that wouldn't be any different I believe (being friends; dating such a player is a no go in every way for me). Although I can't know this for sure of course.

Some people give statements about him as if they know him...there is a girl that is his online friend that posts here a lot. I've read some of her posts (I think she even started this poll....I'm not sure); and my advice: be carefull; in real life he seems to be a bit different than the way you post about him here.




prolific wrote:


Still can't help but wonder why you never mentioned that information at SM, especially since that seems to be your home board...I would think that would have added greatly to your discussion there.

Oh well...just one of those things I suppose.

My reaction:

Well it was her that met him and I didn't know if she wanted me to post that information and it's only since a while that I started posting at this and the SM forum. And I did / do think it's better for her to tell about her encounters with Joran than the story coming from me; it did cross my mind to ask her to post at SM or RU but it just hadn't come up yet.

And right now, after reading some of the replies / reactions, I'm glad I didn't post anything on behalf of her sooner and she got to tell it herself yesterday.

When she was at my house yesterday this forum was open on my computer and she just asked if she could post something with my log in. The approval (if she would have applied for an account) wouldn't have gone throught in a couple of hours (I thought; because of Easter and the timedifference) so I said; sure you can post under my nic.

Hope that answers your question a bit? I think most people people on SM also read here? I'm not sure though...otherwise I will post her posts also on SM.
[/quote

Thank you for sharing a down-to-earth and unemotional "take" from someone who knows Joran.  I wasn't a member of SM in the early months after Natalee's disappearance, so I didn't read much directly from people who know or have met Joran.  Since then it's been either one end of the spectrum or another.  Your friend's familiarity with him may be limited, but it's interesting to hear how he comes across.



Thanks, I did ask her to join SM or RU but after reading some reactions on RU she said thanks but no thanks. She's not on the internet a lot and certainly doesn't post at forums usually...she was a bit startled after reading some posts on RU. So can't really blame her She'll just pop in and read the posts like she did before....

[dennisintn]

Wednesday, March 26th, 2008

VICTIMS (online translator)

If ex-criminal pay attention me ate least say that I am a child ervaringsdeskundige the rights or victims or crime. Victims - as Natalee Holloway and the family - in the criminal justice virtually without rights. Among the intellectuals that most or the nieuwsaanbod care in our country, victims are usually hushed. Sometimes it seems hurry, or they themselves are guilty or a coincidence that they are in the path or their murderer, rapist or berover convicted. And lawyers for victims are or course a wonderful target to try to prevent the appalling act or their customer or a little humanity. That are a fixed part or their livelihood: black victims! The offender shines there. Just how soon after the disappearance or Natalee, rechterszoon Joran themselves on the shove came with the allegation that Natalee himself ash a horny girl behaved. Proudly he writes in his book how he came to the first meeting with the parents Aruba - while Natalee in the water were exactly cold - even father immediately took Holloway separately to explain that his daughter there liked or pulp. As if it is a crime that is a girl WHO just finished her examination, once the large flowers outside move.

After Joran known to me how he dumped her into the sea, the press were full or stories or intellectuals and lawyers WHO came to explain how prayed it are not what to Joran. Because the only victim that's always a destiny or support world turned in their, is the culprit. Illustrative for all or this were the column by the author framework Abdolah in the Volkskrant on the ' peter R. Vries-show '. Framework Abdolah showed a narrow... no, I must say limited thinker to be when it comes to victims and perpetrators & & debt penalty. In his whole story, the become ' victim ' is not a time for, pays attention alone the suffering that the Holloway's Joran them. "It felt not good"... "somewhere did it hurt"... "there were something inhuman"... "this are ugly and ethically forbidden". Those words or framework Abdolah fit all in the behaviour or Joran, not only for what he known, but also to hòe him about his act, Natalee, the police, judges and even his own father said. But the writer used them to our action to approve.

Kader Abdolah had so much compassion for Joran, which he himself get used up to all or its equal display without knowledge or the facts. According to him, there were things that happened not. "He has two months or a boy with booze and cocaine available to him to tallow to." Absolute nonsense. "He buys a friend or the boy." I am not bought and were not his friend, but a mole, because his enemies, the police and justice ' pitiful ' Joran his jaw tightly onto each other ash the most experienced and best instructed criminal.

For people WHO property no regard for victims are the hobbyhorse always that the perpetrator ' mentally ill ' and ' unstable '. Framework Abdolah ash the deeds or Joran tries to tallow. Too prayed for the victim! According to these people are the main action that it are never ' normal ' are a different thing if you terrible calls and therefore should not be "convicted" but helped.

But for those ' debt ground for exclusion ', as the lawyer gentlemen call it, you must really knettergek, simply do not know what you are doing. No sense or guilt. Such a total fool, yes, which should founded in a place or the cell. But a dear nursing for criminals or mentally unstable? Look, I say: what does an offender does not mentally with his victims? No, then I believe best a little retaliation. If I myself 15 years ago normal and stable? No! But the punishment or 11 months I property earned. That penalty were good. And it helped, because I decided that I never again in the shadow or a cell wild life. And how these tallow according hobbypsychiater Abdolah ' labile ' suspect Joran. Me pays attention give another example from my conversations with him, But I were just laughing eh, I property no coño said, Patrick! None coooñoo! I came there eh, okay, and my rights drawer drawer drawer, you do not property to answer. I property not even said "I appeal to my right to silence me." Agent that I property just looked right in his eyes, I property all the time leg no become from my mouth. "And when a judge spun him that he not talked to him the truth, spun this ' labile ' boy me how proud he responded: "I property nothing to declare when he (the judge)" I think that you know. I thought "this are bath". The only thing I said were: sorry ate all, I think it are very speculates that you ash a judge. To then along with his lawyer after enjoying how well he did not do.

But Kader Abdolah wonder how we a boy or 20 years so heavy pressure dare longer? Even if he are a perpetrator. "He argues that this" ugly and ethically forbidden, even if he are the real culprit.

This limited thinking just goes to show how outlawed victims. I will tell you something which are really surprising. In our world we rightly attach great importance to the rights or man. There's even a magnificent treaty that many countries in the western world property signed the Convention for the Protection or Human Rights and Fundamental Freedom. An ordinary citizen knows the importance or that treaty may not be good, but if ex-detainee, I know that it are so. That treaty are very important and powerful. And it sacrifices a great protection to fine suspects and prisoners. In fact, ash in our country justice or the lower court does something that are inconsistent with the rules in that treaty, the judge our own law should draw aside!

But you will not believe. In this whole convention the become ' victim ' but once are. And now, it's crazier people. That one time (Article 34) are not the victim or a crime, but it is actually referred to the suspect or offender, which are a violation or rules in that treaty victim or justice. It are dirty good that we property such a beautiful convention on the rights or man, for the rights or the accused, for the rights or the offender and detained. But it are no disgrace that our civilized society never really dares to work on the rights or the victim? Why do people like Kader Abdolah always that the civilized world are not, if we agree with its all US much more committed to the victim? When do agree that those rights treaty right, so that are good?! There are a destiny or work to be done to victims or crime better deal left for them to do, more often to them to score still than with how pathetic and annoying it are not everything for the perpetrators.

There are people WHO say that there are actually still nothing has leg resolved with this confession or Joran. That's only because they prefer to know every charge detail. Very happy to see a movie or everything that happened that night deliberate, because only then are the mystery for them completely solved. If course it are interesting to see the naadje or the more frosted to know WHO Joran really helped with the discharging or Natalee. If course it are strange if you never hear whether his father would ever be prosecuted for entering a phone call with - ash Joran cursed - far too little credit. But I can assure the parents or Natalee, after all this time to property listened to Joran, that the fate or their daughter what he are known to me. And that took their victims to this great uncertainty road and gave them the chance their lives back a little bit stable.

If Kader Abdolah his column ends with the words "pay attention US hope that Joran of of the ditch song about everything, and our help earlier than our hatred involved" than double meaning are that in false hope. False because it would be a shame if someone so numb to victims, to the police that he, in his own book, and then once again become to me, remains lie. False because the offender rather than the victim help need. It are true that hate are chignon, but keep in mind that a society that increasingly ignores the victim, false compassion and sow hatred harvest.

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

 

The guy is trey cool.  He seems on the total up and up.  He probably is a very good (above average) citizen, regardless of his prior.  He must have had some raising somewhere along the line.  I still would like him to come to the US.  Jackb

i totally agree with you, jackb, and with patrick. 
dennisintn

[dennisintn]

Something about Nico Jorg and Rudy Croes here (in pap):

PROCURADOR GENERAL INTERINO NICO JÖRG A ENTREGA RETIRO ENTRANTE PROME DI JULI VENIDERO
on 25-03-2008 00:32
 

ORANJESTAD – Un informe oficial ricibi for di Ministerio Publico ta bisa cu siman pasa Procurador General interino Nico Jörg a entrega su retiro entrante prome di Juli 2008 cerca minister di Husticia Rudy Croes.

Mr. Jörg ta regresa pa su funcion di Abogado General na Corte Supremo na Den Haag. Inicialmente e tabata di keda dos luna mas na Aruba, te prome di September 2008. 

 

Den su carta pa minister Croes, e PG interino a pone cu nunca no tabata un secreto cu e tin gran deseo pa bolbe pa loke e ta considera e trabao mas bunita pa un hurista na Hulanda: esun di Abogado General na Corte Supremo. E chens a habri un biaha caba, pero e no tabata kier a laga Ministerio Publico na e momento ey. Awor atrobe e chens a presenta su mes. Mirando cu e mes kier tuma encargo di tur e casonan den e aña 2007/2008, el a palabra cu Procurador General di Corte Supremo di lo drenta den servicio na Juli 2008. 

 

Mr. Jörg a sirbi Aruba como Abogado General desde September 2005. Na Juli 2007, su nombracion a wordo alarga cu un aña, pa termina pues riba prome di September 2008.

http://www.extra.an/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1439&Itemid=31

Remember - Nico is the one who chastised PVDS
 
 

 

yes, he chewed him up very nicely.  it was a glimmer of hope that things would turn in the right direction on aruba.
dennisintn

[vms]

Hi Everyone!!!

Very nice that Beth called Vicki...I'm sure that lifted her spirits and made her feel good.

Does anyone know which colleges were going to try and "solve" the case?

AUM sleuths get Holloway case
Article Link

[klaasend]

Just reading 24ORA and it looks like yesterday was a day of total mayhem.

One aggressive turista detained. A few big fights. A bunch of car accidents. Typical chollers running amok.

The "aggressive" tourist looks like he get the bejeezers kicked out him. Aggressive turista = polis beating 

Hard to believe anyone wants to go to that zoo.

Yeah Rob, no shortage of car accidents or problems with chollers in Aruba. 

[Rob]

Hi Everyone!!!

Very nice that Beth called Vicki...I'm sure that lifted her spirits and made her feel good.

Does anyone know which colleges were going to try and "solve" the case?

AUM sleuths get Holloway case
Article Link

thanks vms

[texasmom]

Wednesday, March 26th, 2008

VICTIMS (online translator)

If ex-criminal pay attention me ate least say that I am a child ervaringsdeskundige the rights or victims or crime. Victims - as Natalee Holloway and the family - in the criminal justice virtually without rights. Among the intellectuals that most or the nieuwsaanbod care in our country, victims are usually hushed. Sometimes it seems hurry, or they themselves are guilty or a coincidence that they are in the path or their murderer, rapist or berover convicted. And lawyers for victims are or course a wonderful target to try to prevent the appalling act or their customer or a little humanity. That are a fixed part or their livelihood: black victims! The offender shines there. Just how soon after the disappearance or Natalee, rechterszoon Joran themselves on the shove came with the allegation that Natalee himself ash a horny girl behaved. Proudly he writes in his book how he came to the first meeting with the parents Aruba - while Natalee in the water were exactly cold - even father immediately took Holloway separately to explain that his daughter there liked or pulp. As if it is a crime that is a girl WHO just finished her examination, once the large flowers outside move.
Snipped

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

 

The guy is trey cool.  He seems on the total up and up.  He probably is a very good (above average) citizen, regardless of his prior.  He must have had some raising somewhere along the line.  I still would like him to come to the US.  Jackb

i totally agree with you, jackb, and with patrick. 
dennisintn

I agree with both of you, totally!   

[Rob]

Just reading 24ORA and it looks like yesterday was a day of total mayhem.

One aggressive turista detained. A few big fights. A bunch of car accidents. Typical chollers running amok.

The "aggressive" tourist looks like he get the bejeezers kicked out him. Aggressive turista = polis beating 

Hard to believe anyone wants to go to that zoo.

Yeah Rob, no shortage of car accidents or problems with chollers in Aruba. 

Klaas did you see that particularly bad one with all the blood?

In the comments section someone questions if this was attempted murder. I say good luck proving that one on Aruba, especially after Croes seems to have just walked on his charge... and it is Aruba we're talking about . . .

I also saw an incident at the Black Hog Saloon.

[texasmom]

Something about Nico Jorg and Rudy Croes here (in pap):

PROCURADOR GENERAL INTERINO NICO JÖRG A ENTREGA RETIRO ENTRANTE PROME DI JULI VENIDERO
on 25-03-2008 00:32
 

ORANJESTAD – Un informe oficial ricibi for di Ministerio Publico ta bisa cu siman pasa Procurador General interino Nico Jörg a entrega su retiro entrante prome di Juli 2008 cerca minister di Husticia Rudy Croes.

Mr. Jörg ta regresa pa su funcion di Abogado General na Corte Supremo na Den Haag. Inicialmente e tabata di keda dos luna mas na Aruba, te prome di September 2008. 

 

Den su carta pa minister Croes, e PG interino a pone cu nunca no tabata un secreto cu e tin gran deseo pa bolbe pa loke e ta considera e trabao mas bunita pa un hurista na Hulanda: esun di Abogado General na Corte Supremo. E chens a habri un biaha caba, pero e no tabata kier a laga Ministerio Publico na e momento ey. Awor atrobe e chens a presenta su mes. Mirando cu e mes kier tuma encargo di tur e casonan den e aña 2007/2008, el a palabra cu Procurador General di Corte Supremo di lo drenta den servicio na Juli 2008. 

 

Mr. Jörg a sirbi Aruba como Abogado General desde September 2005. Na Juli 2007, su nombracion a wordo alarga cu un aña, pa termina pues riba prome di September 2008.

http://www.extra.an/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1439&Itemid=31

Remember - Nico is the one who chastised PVDS
 
 

 

yes, he chewed him up very nicely.  it was a glimmer of hope that things would turn in the right direction on aruba.
dennisintn

From the little I can understand it seems that Mr. Nico Jorg is to retire in September I think. 

[JE]

Hi Everyone!!!

Very nice that Beth called Vicki...I'm sure that lifted her spirits and made her feel good.

Does anyone know which colleges were going to try and "solve" the case?

AUM sleuths get Holloway case
Article Link

From your link:

The cold cases were chosen because of two specific forensic characteristics the students have not had the opportunity to study in the past. One is an underwater crime scene component that is related to the Holloway case. The other addresses forensic anthropology throughout the Levy case.

I wonder what that crime scene component is?

[Buckeye]

GBMW

RU is not really an information seeking forum.  Any "real" info is disseminated in the "hidey hole" or other "secret/private" sites and then PM'd to certain posters to disseminate dis information.  The Gielen trash was tested there before it ever hit the airwaves.  Believe it or not, there are some more reasonable posters there now, then there ever used to be. It's a "read only" site, for me.  You've held your own pretty well, so far. Good luck.

[Tamikosmom]

NICO JORG - ARUBAN ADVOCATE GENERAL/ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL

Holloway Case Conviction No Slam Dunk
Under Aruban Law, Suspect's Own Words Can't Be Used Against Him

By JEFFREY KOFMAN
Feb. 4, 2008

It will be difficult under Aruban law for prosecutors to build a case against Joran Van der Sloot in the Natalee Holloway case, according to Nico Jörg, Aruba's advocate general, and acting attorney general.

In an interview with ABC News, Jörg outlined several possible options for prosecuting the young Dutch/Aruban man, a suspect in the disappearance of the Alabama teen, who went to the island on holiday more than two years ago.

Jörg emphasized that there are fundamental differences between the laws of the United States and laws in Aruba. For example, there is no trial by jury in this tiny island nation of just 103,000 citizens. All trials are by judge only. A suspect's own words can't be used to implicate him or her, and there is no such thing as perjury for a suspect in Aruba.

The acting attorney general said prosecutors will look at the following possible charges:

AIDING AND ABETTING FIRST DEGREE MURDER — Possible sentence: Life in prison. This would require prosecutors to prove "conditional intent" on the part of Van der Sloot. In the undercover videotape obtained by a Dutch journalist, Van der Sloot says he can't say for sure that Holloway was actually dead when he called a friend to help him dispose of her body, after she passed out on the beach and began shaking uncontrollably. Jörg told ABC News that to prove this charge, prosecutors would need medical experts to talk about the effects of alcohol poisoning on a body.

INJURY TO HEALTH CAUSING DEATH — Possible sentence: 6 to 9 years. Prosecutors would want to prove that Van der Sloot knowingly gave Holloway too much alcohol. In previous statements, he has admitted giving her a drink of Bacardi 151, which is 75 percent alcohol.

ACCIDENTAL DEATH — Possible sentence: 9 months. Prosecutors would have to demonstrate that Van der Sloot did not take reasonable precautions when he noticed Holloway was unconscious. 

[Dihannah1]

Hi everyone, hereby a post from a friend of mine she made last night on RU (on my nic). Had some question / remarks about it; so under her post I pasted some more info to explain some things....hope you all understand Wink


Should be free? No evidence doesn't mean he didn't have anything to do with it. And if he did have something to do with this he shouldn't be able to get away with it. Proof or no proof. It's just right & wrong.
I know it doesn't work that way according to the law...I'm just thinking as a human being. And evidence doesn't automatically mean a conviction either.

I've only been on this forum recently. The fact is I've met Joran a couple of times. A friend of mine lived near him. One day last summer Joran and his friends / housemates were sitting in the backyard and he was speaking about girls in a rude manner. Her grandparents were coming over and she didn't know what to do. It was a hot day & of course her grandparents wanted to sit outside. So I went over and sat with them. In an instant his way of talking changed...charming mode set in. Later I've met him in clubs in Arnhem a couple of times. As a real player the fact that I wasn't interested got his attention of course. After a while he got the message and left me alone.

And I will say this; I found him to be a nice guy. Joran has a great sense of humour (well of course that would depend on your own sense of humour) and is very likeable; easygoing. But he thinks the world evolves around him and if things don't go the way he wants it....well watch out. And what bothered me the most: he doesn't have a lot of respect (if any for most girls) for girls. His nicknames loverboy / player do him credit.

So from my own experience with the guy: I didn't want to date him or be friends with him. And even without Natalee Holloway case in the back of my mind that wouldn't be any different I believe (being friends; dating such a player is a no go in every way for me). Although I can't know this for sure of course.

Some people give statements about him as if they know him...there is a girl that is his online friend that posts here a lot. I've read some of her posts (I think she even started this poll....I'm not sure); and my advice: be carefull; in real life he seems to be a bit different than the way you post about him here.




prolific wrote:


Still can't help but wonder why you never mentioned that information at SM, especially since that seems to be your home board...I would think that would have added greatly to your discussion there.

Oh well...just one of those things I suppose.

My reaction:

Well it was her that met him and I didn't know if she wanted me to post that information and it's only since a while that I started posting at this and the SM forum. And I did / do think it's better for her to tell about her encounters with Joran than the story coming from me; it did cross my mind to ask her to post at SM or RU but it just hadn't come up yet.

And right now, after reading some of the replies / reactions, I'm glad I didn't post anything on behalf of her sooner and she got to tell it herself yesterday.

When she was at my house yesterday this forum was open on my computer and she just asked if she could post something with my log in. The approval (if she would have applied for an account) wouldn't have gone throught in a couple of hours (I thought; because of Easter and the timedifference) so I said; sure you can post under my nic.

Hope that answers your question a bit? I think most people people on SM also read here? I'm not sure though...otherwise I will post her posts also on SM.
[/quote

Thank you for sharing a down-to-earth and unemotional "take" from someone who knows Joran.  I wasn't a member of SM in the early months after Natalee's disappearance, so I didn't read much directly from people who know or have met Joran.  Since then it's been either one end of the spectrum or another.  Your friend's familiarity with him may be limited, but it's interesting to hear how he comes across.



Thanks, I did ask her to join SM or RU but after reading some reactions on RU she said thanks but no thanks. She's not on the internet a lot and certainly doesn't post at forums usually...she was a bit startled after reading some posts on RU. So can't really blame her She'll just pop in and read the posts like she did before....

Doesn't that just figure.  They JUST DON'T GET IT!  Don't want to hear the truth, let alone from somebody who knows him and might shed some light on his true sick self.   From sombody who knows him personally!  I'm sorry your friend had to experience there hate and ignorance.   I really would hate to meet those people in person, or have one of them live/work near me.  I do hope your friend joins us some time.  She would be welcomed with open arms.   We just want the truth, not to spew ignorant remarks at people for no reason....  That's THERE loss!