Natalee Case Discussion #745 3/25 - 4/4/08

[hotping]

Has Anyone heard any news on the Kalpoe/Dr Phil Case today? TIA

[San]

[caesu]

Rob ... there are so many aspect of that Pauw & Witteman interview with Joran that I find very troubling.  I am inclined to believe that Joran was very compliance in regards to the outcome of the video recording revelation ... an outcome that had an objective but ... an outcome that that implied there would be no legal consequences.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Joran Van der Sloot
Pauw & Witteman
(Phone Interview/Grandma's house)
February 4, 2008

Joran:  Yes, well everyone will see it this Sunday, ha ha ha , but I can easily proof that what I said is not true, it's a whole lot about nothing ...

Well, I would hate to think Godfather Peter R would do anything that would jeopardize the case. And I have no idea how Joran was going  to proof anything. Van Der Straaten linked him to the area he says he was and during the exact same time. Van Der Straaten nails him with his bogus cell phone triangulation.

Not that I believe any of that and still believe it was all at the Sloot murder compound. But the available evidence nails Joran's ass to the wall. And so much for the abducted twice in one night theory proposed by Anita.

If Joran was being followed by the KLPD or some other investigative body, it is theoretical that Mos did know Patrick was doing something... but he might not know what. He would know Patrick was hanging out with Joran and could even know Patrick had a previous record.... but then again, all the suspects were released when the got their letters. The could not be followed, tapped, or harassed.

hard to know what really happened.

Interesting Mos never mentioned that they were aware of what Peter R was doing when he made all of his statements.

Rob ... the following quote implies the the Dutch knew about Patrick's intentions early on.

However ... I have a quote saved somewhere that quotes Hans Mos.  Hans Mos states that Patrick came to him just prior to the November, 2007 detentions of Joran, Deepak and Satish.  Hans claimed that he told Patrick that the operation would have to be independent of the Prosecutor's office.

I will try to locate that quote.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Wednesday, February 06, 2008

Joran and OM talk tomorrow in the Netherlands

ORANJESTAD – The conversation between Joran van der Sloot and the Public Prosecutor (OM) will most probably take place in the Netherlands tomorrow, said Joran’s lawyer Ariean de Bie.  Van der Sloot indicated last Monday that he is willing to be interrogated again by the police. According to Van der Eem, Joran continued to bombard him with email and sms until the day of the disclosure. 

After he had met Joran in a poker game in the casino, Van der Eem had approached the Dutch police last year with the suggestion to unmask him.  Justice questions the fact that he had given himself up.  Due to the fact that there is no law for special powers to investigate (BOB), deploy a civil informant in Aruba is unfortunately impossible, but this is different in the Netherlands.  Using police-informants is possible, but with ‘a lot of trouble’.  “But that is going to change”, said an insider in the OM.  “A BOB law is in the make and will probably be presented soon.”

http://amigoe.com/english/

 

I read that as well.  j/b

yes, the BOB law. that's another thing Rudy Croes and Hirsch Ballin are having a fight about.
goes back to IRT-affair.

pathetic, really: Ballin said the police failed to pass Patrick van der Eem on to Aruba.
but he knew Aruba wouldn't have been able to use Patrick as a under cover operative anyway - because Aruba didn't have the BOB law.


it is just Ballin saying to Rudy Croes: implement that BOB law now!

result of IRT-affair was that stricter rules were made for special investigations.
in 2000 the netherlands adopted the BOB law to enable more special investigations (wire tapping for example, but also under cover operations by using civilians).

aruba didn't follow.
because Rudy Croes wants to keep his justice departement independent, doesn't want to follow the dutch.

there is a long list a anti-terror laws the kingdom adopted from the 1970s onwards.
these laws automatically apply to the netherlands, the dutch antilles and aruba.
but aruba and the antilles never implemented most of these laws
after 9/11 aruba was pressured to implement these ASAP. or at least bij 1 july 2002.
http://www.minbzk.nl/aspx/download.aspx?file=/contents/pages/108/verklaring_samenwerking_bestrijding%20terrorisme_11-01.pdf
(page 9)

most of these laws are implemented now by Aruba (at least on paper), the Dutch Antilles is way behind in implementing. the Antilles still have to implement a anti terror law from 1977!!!!
https://www.aivd.nl/contents/pages/85541/voortgangsrapportage_terrorisme_koninkrijk.pdf (page 19,20)

[jackb]

the summoning of peter r. and patrick van der eem is to remove any doubt about the legality of the undercover operation says Mosko in the Telegraaf article.

i hope Mosko will appear on one of the talk shows today or tomorrow to explain everything.

because such a civil case is as far as i know the first one the netherlands.

but the dutch news at the moment is still occupied with topics related to the Wilders anti-quran film.

Geert Wilder's speech to Holland's Parliament
Posted March 11th, 2008 in Military News

Madam Speaker, allow me, first, to express my sincere thanks to you personally for having planned a debate on Islam on the very day of my birthday. I could not have wished for a nicer present! Madam Speaker, approximately 1400 years ago war was declared on us by an ideology of hate and violence which arose at the time and was proclaimed by a barbarian who called himself the Prophet Mohammed. I am referring to Islam.

Madam Speaker, let me start with the foundation of the Islamic faith, the Koran. The Koran's core theme is about the duty of all Muslims to fight non-Muslims; an Islamic Mein Kampf, in which fight means war, jihad. The Koran is above all a book of war "“ a call to butcher non-Muslims (2:191, 3:141, 4:91, 5:3), to roast them (4:56, 69:30-69:32), and to cause bloodbaths amongst them (47:4). Jews are compared to monkeys and pigs (2:65, 5:60, 7:166), while people who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God must according to the Koran be fought (9:30).

Madam Speaker, the West has no problems with Jews or Christians, but it does have problems with Islam. It is still possible, even today, for Muslims to view the Koran, which they regard as valid for all time, as a licence to kill. And that is exactly what happens. The Koran is worded in such a way that its instructions are addressed to Muslims for eternity, which includes today's Muslims. This in contrast to texts in the Bible, which is formulated as a number of historical narratives, placing events in a distant past. Let us remind ourselves that it was Muslims, not Jews or Christians, who committed the catastrophic terrorist attacks in New York, Madrid and London; and that it was no coincidence that Theo van Gogh was brutally murdered by a Muslim, Mohammed Bouyeri.

Madam Speaker, I acknowledge that there are people who call themselves Muslims and who respect our laws. My party, the Freedom Party, has nothing against such people, of course. However, the Koran does have something against them. For it is stated in the Koran in Sura 2, verse 85, that those believers who do not believe in everything the Koran states will be humiliated and receive the severest punishment; which means that they will roast in Hell. In other words, people who call themselves Muslims but who do not believe, for example, in Sura 9, verse 30, which states that Jews and Christians must be fought, or, for example, in Sura 5, verse 38, which states that the hand of a thief must be cut off, such people will be humiliated and roast in Hell. Note that it is not me who is making this up. All this can be found in the Koran. The Koran also states that Muslims who believe in only part of the Koran are in fact apostates, and we know what has to happen to apostates. They have to be killed.

Madam Speaker, the Koran is a book that incites to violence. I remind the House that the distribution of such texts is unlawful according to Article 132 of our Penal Code. In addition, the Koran incites to hatred and calls for murder and mayhem. The distribution of such texts is made punishable by Article 137(e). The Koran is therefore a highly dangerous book; a book which is completely against our legal order and our democratic institutions. In this light, it is an absolute necessity that the Koran be banned for the defence and reinforcement of our civilisation and our constitutional state. I shall propose a second-reading motion to that effect.

Madam Speaker, there is no such thing as "moderate Islam".... As Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan said the other day, and I quote, "There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that's it".... Islam is in pursuit of dominance. It wishes to exact its imperialist agenda by force on a worldwide scale (8:39). This is clear from European history. Fortunately, the first Islamic invasion of Europe was stopped at Poitiers in 732; the second in Vienna in 1683. Madam Speaker, let us ensure that the third Islamic invasion, which is currently in full spate, will be stopped too in spite of its insidious nature and notwithstanding the fact that, in contrast to the 8th and 17th centuries, it has no need for an Islamic army because the scared "dhimmis" in the West, also those in Dutch politics, have left their doors wide open to Islam and Muslims.

Apart from conquest, Madam Speaker, Islam is also bent on installing a totally different form of law and order, namely Sharia law. This makes Islam, apart from a religion for hundreds of millions of Muslims also, and in particular, a political ideology (with political/constitutional/Islamic basic values, etc). Islam is an ideology without any respect for others; not for Christians, not for Jews, not for non-believers and not for apostates. Islam aims to dominate, subject, kill and wage war.

Madam Speaker, the Islamic incursion must be stopped. Islam is the Trojan Horse in Europe. If we do not stop Islamification now, Eurabia and Netherabia will just be a matter of time. One century ago, there were approximately 50 Muslims in the Netherlands. Today, there are about 1 million Muslims in this country. Where will it end? We are heading for the end of European and Dutch civilisation as we know it. Where is our Prime Minister in all this? In reply to my questions in the House he said, without batting an eyelid, that there is no question of our country being Islamified. Now, this reply constituted
a historical error as soon as it was uttered. Very many Dutch citizens, Madam Speaker, experience the presence of Islam around them. And I can report that they have had enough of burkas, headscarves, the ritual slaughter of animals, so-called honour revenge, blaring minarets, female circumcision, hymen restoration operations, abuse of homosexuals, Turkish and Arabic on the buses and trains as well as on town hall leaflets, halal meat at grocery shops and department stores, Sharia exams, the Finance Minister's Sharia mortgages, and the enormous overrepresentation of Muslims in the area of crime, including Moroccan street terrorists.

In spite of all this, Madam Speaker, there is hope. Fortunately. The majority of Dutch citizens have become fully aware of the danger, and regard Islam as a threat to our culture. My party, the Freedom Party, takes those citizens seriously and comes to their defence.

Many Dutch citizens are fed up to the back teeth and yearn for action. However, their representatives in The Hague are doing precisely nothing. They are held back by fear, political correctness or simply electoral motives. This is particularly clear in the case of PvdA, the Dutch Labour Party, which is afraid of losing Muslim voters. The Prime Minister said in Indonesia the other day that Islam does not pose any danger. Minister Donner believes that Sharia law should be capable of being introduced in the Netherlands if the majority want it. Minister Vogelaar babbles about the future Netherlands as a country with a Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, and that she aims to help Islam take root in Dutch society. In saying this, the Minister shows that she has obviously gone stark raving mad. She is betraying Dutch culture and insulting Dutch citizens.

Madam Speaker, my party, the Freedom Party, demands that Minister Vogelaar retract her statement. If the Minister fails to do so, the Freedom Party parliamentary group will withdraw its support for her. No Islamic tradition must ever be established in the Netherlands: not now and also not in a few centuries' time.

Madam Speaker, let me briefly touch on the government's response to the WRR [Netherlands Scientific Council for Government Policy] report. On page 12 of its response, the government states that Islam is not contrary to democracy or human rights. All I can say to that is that things can't get much more idiotic than this.

Madam Speaker, it is a few minutes to twelve. If we go on like this, Islam will herald the end of our Western civilisation as well as Dutch culture.

I would like to round off my first-reading contribution with a personal appeal to the Prime Minister on behalf of a great many Dutch citizens: stop the Islamification of the Netherlands!

Mr Balkenende, a historic task rests on your shoulders. Be courageous. Do what many Dutch citizens are screaming out for. Do what the country needs. Stop all immigration from Muslim countries, ban all building of new mosques, close all Islamic schools, ban burkas and the Koran. Expel all criminal Muslims from the country, including those Moroccan street terrorists that drive people mad. Accept your responsibility! Stop Islamification!

Enough is enough, Mr Balkenende. Enough is enough.

http://www.navyseals.com/geert-wilders-speech-hollands-parliament

http://www.michaelsavage.com/savage-geert-wilders.html

I agree and enough is a freaking 'nuff.  Jackb

[dsmith]

what does "open department" mean in a psychiatric hospital?  it sounds to me like the patients can come and go as they please. 
dennisintn

my daughter who is 25 now has been in and out of psy hospital's since she was 11.  When she got older she stayed in a psy hosp that let her come and go durning the day and on weekends had to have a pass to stay out for the day and sometimes overnight.  I'm in FL and if you go to a psy hosp and do a vol type thing they can only keep you for 72 hr but if need be a judge can make that longer.  Seems to me if you are in a psy hosp and the law wants to talk to you after the meds kick in they can and go to court if need be.  I do not know the law where juran is but it would be nice if someone there could explain how the law works there for the mentally ill

[caesu]

what does "open department" mean in a psychiatric hospital?  it sounds to me like the patients can come and go as they please. 
dennisintn

yes, i think he can go where ever he wants.
he is not convicted or sectioned.

but if he leaves the full day treatment maybe they won't let him back in to continue the treatment.

[ldstlou]

Houston Monkeys...YOU ROCK!!! 

You know you done great when Chuckierat crawls out of his hole to post!!! lol You got under his ratty skin!!! lol

They can make fun of our numbers all they want...truth is 8 is a perfect number for our protests!!! It doesn't intimidate anyone or cause alarm and allows us to mingle and talk with EVERYONE coming through.

You all did so great!!! YOU JUST ROCK!!!

[ldstlou]

I never listen to the radio but I turned it on this afternoon to a local station.  I turned it on just in time to hear that this station is giving away a trip to Aruba!  This is bad enough but as some of you know I live in the same town as Natalee's aunt, uncles and cousins.  This is a small town and they are business people here!  I just got done sending an informative email to the General Manager of the radio station.  I gave him the website address here and urged him to contact me for more information.  I will be sure that Natalee's family has this information! 

Standing Ovation for Casa!!!

Thanks, Destiny!  It made me furious!

Great job casa!!! way to speak your mind!!!

And you are a hoot Klaas!! true...everyone in aruba will be "freebees" hahahahahaha

[caesu]

the summoning of peter r. and patrick van der eem is to remove any doubt about the legality of the undercover operation says Mosko in the Telegraaf article.

i hope Mosko will appear on one of the talk shows today or tomorrow to explain everything.

because such a civil case is as far as i know the first one the netherlands.

but the dutch news at the moment is still occupied with topics related to the Wilders anti-quran film.

Geert Wilder's speech to Holland's Parliament
Posted March 11th, 2008 in Military News

Madam Speaker, allow me, first, to express my sincere thanks to you personally for having planned a debate on Islam on the very day of my birthday. I could not have wished for a nicer present! Madam Speaker, approximately 1400 years ago war was declared on us by an ideology of hate and violence which arose at the time and was proclaimed by a barbarian who called himself the Prophet Mohammed. I am referring to Islam.

Madam Speaker, let me start with the foundation of the Islamic faith, the Koran. The Koran's core theme is about the duty of all Muslims to fight non-Muslims; an Islamic Mein Kampf, in which fight means war, jihad. The Koran is above all a book of war "“ a call to butcher non-Muslims (2:191, 3:141, 4:91, 5:3), to roast them (4:56, 69:30-69:32), and to cause bloodbaths amongst them (47:4). Jews are compared to monkeys and pigs (2:65, 5:60, 7:166), while people who believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God must according to the Koran be fought (9:30).

Madam Speaker, the West has no problems with Jews or Christians, but it does have problems with Islam. It is still possible, even today, for Muslims to view the Koran, which they regard as valid for all time, as a licence to kill. And that is exactly what happens. The Koran is worded in such a way that its instructions are addressed to Muslims for eternity, which includes today's Muslims. This in contrast to texts in the Bible, which is formulated as a number of historical narratives, placing events in a distant past. Let us remind ourselves that it was Muslims, not Jews or Christians, who committed the catastrophic terrorist attacks in New York, Madrid and London; and that it was no coincidence that Theo van Gogh was brutally murdered by a Muslim, Mohammed Bouyeri.

Madam Speaker, I acknowledge that there are people who call themselves Muslims and who respect our laws. My party, the Freedom Party, has nothing against such people, of course. However, the Koran does have something against them. For it is stated in the Koran in Sura 2, verse 85, that those believers who do not believe in everything the Koran states will be humiliated and receive the severest punishment; which means that they will roast in Hell. In other words, people who call themselves Muslims but who do not believe, for example, in Sura 9, verse 30, which states that Jews and Christians must be fought, or, for example, in Sura 5, verse 38, which states that the hand of a thief must be cut off, such people will be humiliated and roast in Hell. Note that it is not me who is making this up. All this can be found in the Koran. The Koran also states that Muslims who believe in only part of the Koran are in fact apostates, and we know what has to happen to apostates. They have to be killed.

Madam Speaker, the Koran is a book that incites to violence. I remind the House that the distribution of such texts is unlawful according to Article 132 of our Penal Code. In addition, the Koran incites to hatred and calls for murder and mayhem. The distribution of such texts is made punishable by Article 137(e). The Koran is therefore a highly dangerous book; a book which is completely against our legal order and our democratic institutions. In this light, it is an absolute necessity that the Koran be banned for the defence and reinforcement of our civilisation and our constitutional state. I shall propose a second-reading motion to that effect.

Madam Speaker, there is no such thing as "moderate Islam".... As Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan said the other day, and I quote, "There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that's it".... Islam is in pursuit of dominance. It wishes to exact its imperialist agenda by force on a worldwide scale (8:39). This is clear from European history. Fortunately, the first Islamic invasion of Europe was stopped at Poitiers in 732; the second in Vienna in 1683. Madam Speaker, let us ensure that the third Islamic invasion, which is currently in full spate, will be stopped too in spite of its insidious nature and notwithstanding the fact that, in contrast to the 8th and 17th centuries, it has no need for an Islamic army because the scared "dhimmis" in the West, also those in Dutch politics, have left their doors wide open to Islam and Muslims.

Apart from conquest, Madam Speaker, Islam is also bent on installing a totally different form of law and order, namely Sharia law. This makes Islam, apart from a religion for hundreds of millions of Muslims also, and in particular, a political ideology (with political/constitutional/Islamic basic values, etc). Islam is an ideology without any respect for others; not for Christians, not for Jews, not for non-believers and not for apostates. Islam aims to dominate, subject, kill and wage war.

Madam Speaker, the Islamic incursion must be stopped. Islam is the Trojan Horse in Europe. If we do not stop Islamification now, Eurabia and Netherabia will just be a matter of time. One century ago, there were approximately 50 Muslims in the Netherlands. Today, there are about 1 million Muslims in this country. Where will it end? We are heading for the end of European and Dutch civilisation as we know it. Where is our Prime Minister in all this? In reply to my questions in the House he said, without batting an eyelid, that there is no question of our country being Islamified. Now, this reply constituted
a historical error as soon as it was uttered. Very many Dutch citizens, Madam Speaker, experience the presence of Islam around them. And I can report that they have had enough of burkas, headscarves, the ritual slaughter of animals, so-called honour revenge, blaring minarets, female circumcision, hymen restoration operations, abuse of homosexuals, Turkish and Arabic on the buses and trains as well as on town hall leaflets, halal meat at grocery shops and department stores, Sharia exams, the Finance Minister's Sharia mortgages, and the enormous overrepresentation of Muslims in the area of crime, including Moroccan street terrorists.

In spite of all this, Madam Speaker, there is hope. Fortunately. The majority of Dutch citizens have become fully aware of the danger, and regard Islam as a threat to our culture. My party, the Freedom Party, takes those citizens seriously and comes to their defence.

Many Dutch citizens are fed up to the back teeth and yearn for action. However, their representatives in The Hague are doing precisely nothing. They are held back by fear, political correctness or simply electoral motives. This is particularly clear in the case of PvdA, the Dutch Labour Party, which is afraid of losing Muslim voters. The Prime Minister said in Indonesia the other day that Islam does not pose any danger. Minister Donner believes that Sharia law should be capable of being introduced in the Netherlands if the majority want it. Minister Vogelaar babbles about the future Netherlands as a country with a Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, and that she aims to help Islam take root in Dutch society. In saying this, the Minister shows that she has obviously gone stark raving mad. She is betraying Dutch culture and insulting Dutch citizens.

Madam Speaker, my party, the Freedom Party, demands that Minister Vogelaar retract her statement. If the Minister fails to do so, the Freedom Party parliamentary group will withdraw its support for her. No Islamic tradition must ever be established in the Netherlands: not now and also not in a few centuries' time.

Madam Speaker, let me briefly touch on the government's response to the WRR [Netherlands Scientific Council for Government Policy] report. On page 12 of its response, the government states that Islam is not contrary to democracy or human rights. All I can say to that is that things can't get much more idiotic than this.

Madam Speaker, it is a few minutes to twelve. If we go on like this, Islam will herald the end of our Western civilisation as well as Dutch culture.

I would like to round off my first-reading contribution with a personal appeal to the Prime Minister on behalf of a great many Dutch citizens: stop the Islamification of the Netherlands!

Mr Balkenende, a historic task rests on your shoulders. Be courageous. Do what many Dutch citizens are screaming out for. Do what the country needs. Stop all immigration from Muslim countries, ban all building of new mosques, close all Islamic schools, ban burkas and the Koran. Expel all criminal Muslims from the country, including those Moroccan street terrorists that drive people mad. Accept your responsibility! Stop Islamification!

Enough is enough, Mr Balkenende. Enough is enough.

http://www.navyseals.com/geert-wilders-speech-hollands-parliament

http://www.michaelsavage.com/savage-geert-wilders.html

I agree and enough is a freaking 'nuff.  Jackb

yes this geert wilders / fitna - anti-quran thing is a total disgrace.
i don't agree with him on a few points.
but they way the governement treated him on is not acceptable.

Dutch survey: one in three think ministers lied

Published: Thursday 03 April 2008 09:52 UTC
Last updated: Thursday 03 April 2008 09:52 UTC

The Hague - A survey indicates that one in three Dutch citizens think the cabinet has lied about right-wing MP Geert Wilders' anti-Qur'an film, Fitna. Ministers say the MP held talks with them about his film at the end of last year and told them he was planning to tear pages out of the Qur'an during the film. Mr Wilders denied this in parliament on Tuesday.

While one in three of those questioned in the survey said they believed Mr Wilders, one in four said they did not know who to believe. The cabinet says Mr Wilders statements were recorded in minutes of his meetings with ministers, but he maintains he never talked about the content of his film.

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/5716451/Dutch-survey-one-in-three-think-ministers-lied

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/region/netherlands/080402-fitna-debate-mc

for months the ministers have been saying the didn't know the contents of the film.
but they did warn of a crisis and terror attacks.

now suddenly they say they did know the contents of the film (to back up their terror crisis warnings?)
wilder denies that he has shared the contents with the minister before he released the film.

many think the government has wire tapped wilders.
or the government paid body guards were government informants.

but this story is not over yet.
more political parties want this investigated.

[Peaches]

I remember this story....he killed his wife...and don't remember for sure...but a young son also....I was living at San Fran at the time....was big news there....France was very *protective* of the villians' rights due to the death penalty in the US jurisdiction...so would not extradite him...plus...he was from a wealthy family...State Dept. in the US got involved...it was a big mess....and a huge black eye for France...

Des, I *think* it was Ira Eichhorn IIRC and it was a girlfriend. I'm too lazy to look it up...so I'll accept that I might be wrong. LOL

Rob, you're right.  Ira Einhorn.  He killed his girlfriend and put her in a trunk on the porch of their apartment and then lied to her family in Texas that she had left on a trip.  Can't think of the book about this crime but I read it years ago.  What a creep. 

[klaasend]

http://www.wjhg.com:80/news/headlines/17273179.html

Beth Holloway Speaks at FSU Panama City 
 
Posted: 5:35 PM Apr 3, 2008
Last Updated: 5:35 PM Apr 3, 2008
 

AFSU Panama City is no stranger to the Natalee Holloway case. The underwater crime scene investigation team went to Aruba twice as a group to help with the search for Natalee.

"We were hoping to bring some closure for her and her family members. Unfortunately we weren't able to find her in those areas, but it makes us feel really good that she feels we contributed to the investigation," said Tom Kelley, director for the Underwater Crime Scene Investigation Team.

 
The most recent development in the case came in February when Dutch student Joran Van Der Sloot admitted on hidden camera to his involvement in Natalee's disappearance. However, a judge denied an arrest warrant, saying the tape was inconsistent with prior evidence.

"We suspected this all along and known that it was too late for Natalee for a long time, but it just gives you that validation for the fight and not really closure, but it's some kind of peace, at least, knowing what happened to your loved one," said Beth Holloway, Natalee's mother.

Now Beth Holloway is on a mission to spread awareness about safer travel abroad. She recently published a book, Loving Natalee, that details her painful journey, and the message is sinking in.

FSU students say they will think twice after hearing her words.

"I followed this story, just like so many other people, and it impacted me so much because I feel like me and Natalee were really alike and she's just like any American girl. I think so many kids think they're invincible and nothing can happen to them. They need to know they need to be on guard every minute because you never know what can happen," said Kristin Brookins, an FSU Panama City student.

A second session with Beth Holloway took place Thursday evening at the FSU Panama City campus auditorium. The school's Underwater Crime Scene Investigation Team presented findings from the Aruba trips.
 
 

[martini]

what does "open department" mean in a psychiatric hospital?  it sounds to me like the patients can come and go as they please. 
dennisintn

my daughter who is 25 now has been in and out of psy hospital's since she was 11.  When she got older she stayed in a psy hosp that let her come and go durning the day and on weekends had to have a pass to stay out for the day and sometimes overnight.  I'm in FL and if you go to a psy hosp and do a vol type thing they can only keep you for 72 hr but if need be a judge can make that longer.  Seems to me if you are in a psy hosp and the law wants to talk to you after the meds kick in they can and go to court if need be.  I do not know the law where juran is but it would be nice if someone there could explain how the law works there for the mentally ill

My prayers go to you and your daughter. I have an Aunt who is in and out of psy. hospital's. I can remember my parents discussions on if they should commit her again. I am so insulted when someone uses the system to put off law suits or the Law. Respectfully, Martini

[klaasend]

TONIGHT ON DANA PRETZER:

www.scaredmonkeysradio.com



Some information on Becca McEvoy:

http://www.wkrg.com/news/article/rebeccas_case_delayed_again/12346/

Tune in now and be ready for the 9pm ET show!
http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/radio.m3u

[klaasend]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_41150.php

Through google translator:

Lawyer Moszkowicz dagvaart Joran and parents
April 3, 2008, 17:56 (GMT -04:00)

  Email this article
  Print this article
   
   ORANJESTAD / AMSTERDAM - Joran van der Sloot and his parents sued the coming days. They must appear before the court in order to be heard under oath about their role during and after the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. That message De Telegraaf today.

The summonses are part of a series injunction in the civil case that the mother of Natalee Holloway, Beth Reynolds in the Netherlands has begun. They require a substantial compensation and satisfaction for the "shockschade" that Joran van der Sloot it has carried out. She is convinced that he was involved in the disappearance of her daughter.

Beth Reynolds is assisted by Bram Moszkowicz and Roger Schmidt. It has advocatenkoppel summonses to prepare for virtually all 'stakeholders', including Patrick van der Eem, Peter R. De Vries and the brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.

"During the questioning, the witnesses required answers to all the questions," says Moszkowicz in the article in De Telegraaf. "There is no absolute right to remain silent, as in criminal law. This will allow hearings for Justice also interesting. "

According to the reporters, Joran voluntarily under treatment of the psychiatric institution Altrecht in Den Dolder. He would stay in an open section and therapy for people who are stuck in everyday life and suffer from 'behavioural and psychiatric problems. " It has been suggested that the possible inclusion is a deliberate move to Jorans lawyer, Bert de Rooij, argued that his client may not be able to answer. Van der Sloot would under his schuilnamen again at various pokersites are identified.

The summons for Patrick van der Eem and misdaadjournalist Peter R. De Vries wants Moszkowicz reach to see an end to the debate on the legality of the undercover operation.

[dsmith]

what does "open department" mean in a psychiatric hospital?  it sounds to me like the patients can come and go as they please. 
dennisintn

my daughter who is 25 now has been in and out of psy hospital's since she was 11.  When she got older she stayed in a psy hosp that let her come and go durning the day and on weekends had to have a pass to stay out for the day and sometimes overnight.  I'm in FL and if you go to a psy hosp and do a vol type thing they can only keep you for 72 hr but if need be a judge can make that longer.  Seems to me if you are in a psy hosp and the law wants to talk to you after the meds kick in they can and go to court if need be.  I do not know the law where juran is but it would be nice if someone there could explain how the law works there for the mentally ill

My prayers go to you and your daughter. I have an Aunt who is in and out of psy. hospital's. I can remember my parents discussions on if they should commit her again. I am so insulted when someone uses the system to put off law suits or the Law. Respectfully, Martini

it had never intered my mind to try and get my daughter out of whatever she got herself into   just make sure she had her meds  being mentally ill sometimes means you just do not understand which is my daughters case not like jordan's case at all it you do the crime then do the time sorry that is the way it is and thank you for your prayers although so far they have not helped but they might one day

[ldstlou]

I hope renho is next on the list to be sued!!! I keep pushing for it!!!
man she makes me want to say curse words!!!

[casa]

I hope renho is next on the list to be sued!!! I keep pushing for it!!!
man she makes me want to say curse words!!!

\
Im with you on that one Idstlou!  I can NOT stand Renho. I want her to get what is coming to her SO badly!

[ldstlou]

what does "open department" mean in a psychiatric hospital?  it sounds to me like the patients can come and go as they please. 
dennisintn

my daughter who is 25 now has been in and out of psy hospital's since she was 11.  When she got older she stayed in a psy hosp that let her come and go durning the day and on weekends had to have a pass to stay out for the day and sometimes overnight.  I'm in FL and if you go to a psy hosp and do a vol type thing they can only keep you for 72 hr but if need be a judge can make that longer.  Seems to me if you are in a psy hosp and the law wants to talk to you after the meds kick in they can and go to court if need be.  I do not know the law where juran is but it would be nice if someone there could explain how the law works there for the mentally ill

My prayers go to you and your daughter. I have an Aunt who is in and out of psy. hospital's. I can remember my parents discussions on if they should commit her again. I am so insulted when someone uses the system to put off law suits or the Law. Respectfully, Martini

it had never intered my mind to try and get my daughter out of whatever she got herself into   just make sure she had her meds  being mentally ill sometimes means you just do not understand which is my daughters case not like jordan's case at all it you do the crime then do the time sorry that is the way it is and thank you for your prayers although so far they have not helped but they might one day

prayers to you d...don't give up on her. You are so correct!!! The mentally ill get so few resourses and even less compassion or understanding. Shows the extent of the sloots evil minds to try and use this as an excuse for jorine  to be held accountable.

[ldstlou]

I hope renho is next on the list to be sued!!! I keep pushing for it!!!
man she makes me want to say curse words!!!

\
Im with you on that one Idstlou!  I can NOT stand Renho. I want her to get what is coming to her SO badly!

Amen to that!! ironic part is jorine himself shut down the renho and angela "documentary" real quick!!! hahahahaha...wonder who is paying the bill for that one since it didn't make dollar 1!!! what a hoot!!!!

[Tamikosmom]

Rob ... there are so many aspect of that Pauw & Witteman interview with Joran that I find very troubling.  I am inclined to believe that Joran was very compliance in regards to the outcome of the video recording revelation ... an outcome that had an objective but ... an outcome that that implied there would be no legal consequences.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Joran Van der Sloot
Pauw & Witteman
(Phone Interview/Grandma's house)
February 4, 2008

Joran:  Yes, well everyone will see it this Sunday, ha ha ha , but I can easily proof that what I said is not true, it's a whole lot about nothing ...

Well, I would hate to think Godfather Peter R would do anything that would jeopardize the case. And I have no idea how Joran was going  to proof anything. Van Der Straaten linked him to the area he says he was and during the exact same time. Van Der Straaten nails him with his bogus cell phone triangulation.

Not that I believe any of that and still believe it was all at the Sloot murder compound. But the available evidence nails Joran's ass to the wall. And so much for the abducted twice in one night theory proposed by Anita.

If Joran was being followed by the KLPD or some other investigative body, it is theoretical that Mos did know Patrick was doing something... but he might not know what. He would know Patrick was hanging out with Joran and could even know Patrick had a previous record.... but then again, all the suspects were released when the got their letters. The could not be followed, tapped, or harassed.

hard to know what really happened.

Interesting Mos never mentioned that they were aware of what Peter R was doing when he made all of his statements.

Rob ... the following quote implies the the Dutch knew about Patrick's intentions early on.

However ... I have a quote saved somewhere that quotes Hans Mos.  Hans Mos states that Patrick came to him just prior to the November, 2007 detentions of Joran, Deepak and Satish.  Hans claimed that he told Patrick that the operation would have to be independent of the Prosecutor's office.

I will try to locate that quote.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Wednesday, February 06, 2008

Joran and OM talk tomorrow in the Netherlands

ORANJESTAD – The conversation between Joran van der Sloot and the Public Prosecutor (OM) will most probably take place in the Netherlands tomorrow, said Joran’s lawyer Ariean de Bie.  Van der Sloot indicated last Monday that he is willing to be interrogated again by the police. According to Van der Eem, Joran continued to bombard him with email and sms until the day of the disclosure. 

After he had met Joran in a poker game in the casino, Van der Eem had approached the Dutch police last year with the suggestion to unmask him.  Justice questions the fact that he had given himself up.  Due to the fact that there is no law for special powers to investigate (BOB), deploy a civil informant in Aruba is unfortunately impossible, but this is different in the Netherlands.  Using police-informants is possible, but with ‘a lot of trouble’.  “But that is going to change”, said an insider in the OM.  “A BOB law is in the make and will probably be presented soon.”

http://amigoe.com/english/

 

I read that as well.  j/b

What I find so frustrating is that Peter Devries/Patrick van der Eem as well as ... the the crew of the Persistence .... just do not get it!  In their sincere quest for justice for Natalee Holloway ... in their naïveté they align themselves with those who are responsible for the coverup.

This is why I cannot trust that VDS' were not forewarned while Joran was detained in December, 2007 about the forthcoming "fifth segment".  How do Peter Devries and Patrick van der Eem know that there was not a collaborated plan in regards to what Joran would say to Patrick while fully realizing that he was being record.

I suspect that the plan was that Joran would implicate "only" himself and ... distance all other who were involved or aware of the coverup.  He was assured that he would not be held legally responsible.  However ... it was hoped that the outcome would be that Natalee's family would give up their quest for justice when they were given a measure of closure.

Janet

+++++++++

Arubans wary of fifth car trip in Holloway case
Monday 25 February 2008
 
Dutch tv crime reporter Peter R de Vries set up a fifth car trip to try and get Joran van der Sloot to confess to murdering US teenager Natalee Holloway after the Aruban public prosecution department said the original four recordings did not contain enough evidence, the Volkskrant reported on Saturday.
 
Aruban officials told De Vries and his team at a secret hotel meeting that the tapes did not contain enough new evidence, the paper says in a reconstruction of events surrounding the tv programme which claimed to solve the mystery of her disappearance.

Aruban public prosecutor Hans Mos told the paper he did not want to have anything to do with the extra car trip because he was afraid it could be construed as entrapment and blow the case.
 
The final car trip with Van der Sloot and his 'friend' Patrick van der Eem took place on January 29 in a borrowed car which had been hastily kitted out with recording equipment, the paper said. The original had already been sold.

During that trip, Van der Sloot said he was not sure if Natalee had been dead when a friend dumped her body at sea.  After the press release was issued claiming the case had been solved but without giving any further details, De Vries told the paper he hoped that Van der Sloot would again phone his 'friend'.
 
But website VKMag picked up a page on De Vries' website which identified Van der Sloot. The page had been prepared for release after the programme was aired on Sunday but had gone live by mistake.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php