Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08

[Lala'sMom]

Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES
Justice for Natalee

I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!

Can I add a few things I would like to see?

All of Freddy's PV's.
Andres Meneses PV's.
All of Lorenzo's PV's.
The items that were returned to the tennis player.
Joran and Freddy's girlfriend's PV's.
Koen and Sanders PV's. 

Just those alone would fill in a whole bunch of blanks and most likely tell a story we won't believe.

[Tamikosmom]

Goodmorning!

Patrick put a translation of his latest blog on his website.....

Civil suit against Joran starts

Holland’s most famous lawyer Bram Moszkowicz has been preparing the civil suit agsinst Joran van der Sloot and possibly his parents. The lawyer works for Beth. Some websites reported on Friday that subpoena’s were sent to Joran, his parents, the crime reporter Peter R. de Vries and myself. Also the Kalpoe brothers have been called to testify, because the lawyer wants to figure out why they gave Joran a false alibi.

I have not received my subpoena yet, but expect to pick the doc from the doormat on Monday or Tuesday. Of course I will be there for Beth, who has suffered hard and long under this case.

Under Dutch law judges are traditionally very strict with damages for pain and suffering to relatives of victims of crimes and accidents . The lawmaker has always been afraid for a culture of ambulance chasers and the commercialization of grief. While in the civil suit against O.J. Simpson damages like $ 8.5 million were ruled, it would be out of the ordinary if a Dutch judge awards more than € 100.000 ($ 160.000). Perhaps this case will set a new trend. The life of Natalee’s parents has been derailed for years already.

Usually judges tend to focus only on material damages, like lost wages of breadwinners and funeral expenses. Especially the value of a child in this kind of legal culture in terms of dollars is low. In 2002 the Supreme Court of Holland agreed to immaterial damages in the first case ever, to a mother who had to witness the dead body of her daughter under the wheels of a truck, for a pittance of € 13.000. Of course the circumstances in this case are totally different, but it sets a trend.

The good news of this civil suit is that Joran and his parents will not have the right to remain silent anymore or can rely on what in the US is known as the Fifth Amendment. They have to answer the questions of the lawyer and the judge and will be heard under oath. This can have nasty consequences for them. Assume for instance that Joran’s father knows far more than he has told until now or even helped him. When he would lie during this civil suit and this surfaces in a possible later criminal suit (even when he tells the truth there), perjury can be established. Perjury carries a maximum penalty in Holland of 6 years and/or a fine of € 18,500. The same sentence can be handed out to all other family members who testify under oath and lie, including Joran.

Some people therefore speculate that this might be the reason that Joran has been admitted in a psychiatric institute. There he receives therapy for people who hit rock bottom in their lives and need treatment for behavioral and psychiatric problems. As long as Joran is under the care of these psychiatrists, his lawyer can claim that he is able to answers questions. Meanwhile the civil suit can of course just start with hearing the other witnesses. Usually these civil suits last for more than one year.

I will keep you informed in my blog about all the developments in this case. Of course I will go myself, completely voluntarily, to be heard as a witness in this court case.

GBMW ... thank you.

I would appreciate if you could provide me with the link to Patrick's site.

Thank you.

Good Morning Monkeys.

Janet
7:45 AM

[Rob]

By the way...forgot I wanted to post this..

I'm not totally sure what this is saying.
The polis investigation van was ???? and wrecked or the polis have taken the van into custody for further examination. Anyone want to get this one a shot?

I see it says the 'van of the polis was transported to the polis ward / station for more investigation'.
Does that look right to anyone else?



Den oranan di merdia a drenta informe cu un mini van lo a bolter un poco mas pabao di A-Mart na Piedra Plat. Mester bisa cu ora cu polis a yega na e sitio nan a constata cu no tin ningun hende herida y nan no por a encontra e chauffeur di e auto y mucho menos e papelnan di e vehiculo pa cual motibo a pidi pa takelwagen di Polis transporta e van pa warda di Polis pa mas investigacion. Click read more pa mas imagen.

http://www.24ora.com

[Tamikosmom]

I speculate that the civil suit brought against the VDS' by Beth Holloway will never go forward.  The continued manipulation of Dutch law that has denied Natalee Holloway justice for almost three years will be where it is at.

Think about ... manipulation of Dutch law has protected Paulus and Joran for three years ...
 
Also ... Holland is fully aware that snowball effect of "discovery" will be too far reaching.  Those at all levels of the Dutch/Aruban administrations who were involved in or aware of the coverup will be exposed for who they are ... corrupt.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 14, 2005

VAN SUSTEREN: They are saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they're keeping Karen Janssen on ...

TWITTY: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ... it has to be.


Joe Scarborough
'Scarborough Country'
June 30, 2005

SCARBOROUGH: Friends, let me tell you something. This is an incestuous investigation. That‘s what Washington officials are saying. I have got to tell you, it‘s so obvious. You look at this. You have the Dutch government. And I was told—another source told me today, if you really want to know what‘s going on in Aruba, if you want to understand why we can‘t get to the bottom of anything, you know what? You can‘t search for answers in Aruba. You have got to follow it, follow that trail all the way over to the Netherlands, because that‘s where the real power of this investigation is.

And they are the ones that many in Washington, D.C., believe are covering up this investigation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430791/

[klaasend]

Janet - Patrick's site

http://patrickvandereem.nl/

[Dayhiker]

I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!

Morning Dayhiker 

+ ask vander straaten about his interesting quotes (paraphrased) "I know about the investigation and you don't" "if I told you about the dogs it would give an indication of the direction of the case"

+ ask Staanley why he felt that the body of Natalee was found but not reported as a 'favor' to Paulus

+ who in the heck was in holland and who was in Aruba the night Natalee was taken by aliens 

+ did paulus really go to miami while his son was in prison (or the days leading up to it) and if so, why

+ what size are Joran' s feet? 


And the list goes on..........the list goes on.........

Great additions Sharon. I think if Van der Straten knew he was being investigated and could face criminal charges for purposely botching the investigation he would spill his guts. It seems like he was trying to all along, almost like an unwilling participant but a participant nonetheless. Who was Jan taking orders from?

Remember he said that the case should have been solved in the first week but "some people did not wish to cooperate." I doubt he was talking about the perps, you couldn't expect them to cooperate, so was he talking about higher up?

Jan and Karin both knew about the "seizure" statements from Joran. That puts both of them in the corruption spotlight.

[Dayhiker]

Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES
Justice for Natalee

I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!

Can I add a few things I would like to see?

All of Freddy's PV's.
Andres Meneses PV's.
All of Lorenzo's PV's.
The items that were returned to the tennis player.
Joran and Freddy's girlfriend's PV's.
Koen and Sanders PV's. 

Just those alone would fill in a whole bunch of blanks and most likely tell a story we won't believe.

Yup, throw all those friends of Joran in there too, Lalas. Especially Freddy, Lorenzo and the Gottenbros!

[MumInOhio]

Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES
Justice for Natalee

I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!

Can I add a few things I would like to see?

All of Freddy's PV's.
Andres Meneses PV's.
All of Lorenzo's PV's.
The items that were returned to the tennis player.
Joran and Freddy's girlfriend's PV's.
Koen and Sanders PV's. 

Just those alone would fill in a whole bunch of blanks and most likely tell a story we won't believe.

Tennis coach and the PV's for the other Racquet Club peeps may clear up a lot. I wonder if he ever got whatever he wanted back?

[nimrod]

Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES
Justice for Natalee

I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!

Can I add a few things I would like to see?

All of Freddy's PV's.
Andres Meneses PV's.
All of Lorenzo's PV's.
The items that were returned to the tennis player.
Joran and Freddy's girlfriend's PV's.
Koen and Sanders PV's. 

Just those alone would fill in a whole bunch of blanks and most likely tell a story we won't believe.

Yup, throw all those friends of Joran in there too, Lalas. Especially Freddy, Lorenzo and the Gottenbros!

Also toss in: Was that Paulas at the casino talking to Natalee? and What are the Chicago pictures of? Number one to me is where is Joran's May 31, 2005 iinterview.

[caesu]

very nice of patrick to translate in english for you guys too!
he continues to be a great help.

http://patrickvandereem.nl/stories/civil-suit-against-joran-andor-parents-starts/

[Tamikosmom]

very nice of patrick to translate in english for you guys too!
he continues to be a great help.

http://patrickvandereem.nl/stories/civil-suit-against-joran-andor-parents-starts/

caesu and Klaas ... thank you for the link.

Have a good day Monkeys.

Janet

[SS]

I speculate that the civil suit brought against the VDS' by Beth Holloway will never go forward.  The continued manipulation of Dutch law that has denied Natalee Holloway justice for almost three years will be where it is at.

Think about ... manipulation of Dutch law has protected Paulus and Joran for three years ...
 
Also ... Holland is fully aware that snowball effect of "discovery" will be too far reaching.  Those at all levels of the Dutch/Aruban administrations who were involved in or aware of the coverup will be exposed for who they are ... corrupt.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 14, 2005

VAN SUSTEREN: They are saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they're keeping Karen Janssen on ...

TWITTY: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ... it has to be.


Joe Scarborough
'Scarborough Country'
June 30, 2005

SCARBOROUGH: Friends, let me tell you something. This is an incestuous investigation. That‘s what Washington officials are saying. I have got to tell you, it‘s so obvious. You look at this. You have the Dutch government. And I was told—another source told me today, if you really want to know what‘s going on in Aruba, if you want to understand why we can‘t get to the bottom of anything, you know what? You can‘t search for answers in Aruba. You have got to follow it, follow that trail all the way over to the Netherlands, because that‘s where the real power of this investigation is.

And they are the ones that many in Washington, D.C., believe are covering up this investigation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430791/

Good Morning Janet,

Unfortunately, you might be right about the law suit not going forward.  But if it doesn't, the world outrage will be much greater than after the video was aired.  I don't think it's about money, either.  Beth is trying to expose them and if The Hague blocks this law suit she will in effect be exposing The Hague.  I think that Beth will win no mater what happens.  It's about time that the worm is finally turning.

[Rob]

By the way...forgot I wanted to post this..

I'm not totally sure what this is saying.
The polis investigation van was ???? and wrecked or the polis have taken the van into custody for further examination. Anyone want to get this one a shot?

I see it says the 'van of the polis was transported to the polis ward / station for more investigation'.
Does that look right to anyone else?



Den oranan di merdia a drenta informe cu un mini van lo a bolter un poco mas pabao di A-Mart na Piedra Plat. Mester bisa cu ora cu polis a yega na e sitio nan a constata cu no tin ningun hende herida y nan no por a encontra e chauffeur di e auto y mucho menos e papelnan di e vehiculo pa cual motibo a pidi pa takelwagen di Polis transporta e van pa warda di Polis pa mas investigacion. Click read more pa mas imagen.

http://www.24ora.com

[katrien]

I speculate that the civil suit brought against the VDS' by Beth Holloway will never go forward.  The continued manipulation of Dutch law that has denied Natalee Holloway justice for almost three years will be where it is at.

Think about ... manipulation of Dutch law has protected Paulus and Joran for three years ...
 
Also ... Holland is fully aware that snowball effect of "discovery" will be too far reaching.  Those at all levels of the Dutch/Aruban administrations who were involved in or aware of the coverup will be exposed for who they are ... corrupt.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 14, 2005

VAN SUSTEREN: They are saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they're keeping Karen Janssen on ...

TWITTY: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ... it has to be.


Joe Scarborough
'Scarborough Country'
June 30, 2005

SCARBOROUGH: Friends, let me tell you something. This is an incestuous investigation. That‘s what Washington officials are saying. I have got to tell you, it‘s so obvious. You look at this. You have the Dutch government. And I was told—another source told me today, if you really want to know what‘s going on in Aruba, if you want to understand why we can‘t get to the bottom of anything, you know what? You can‘t search for answers in Aruba. You have got to follow it, follow that trail all the way over to the Netherlands, because that‘s where the real power of this investigation is.

And they are the ones that many in Washington, D.C., believe are covering up this investigation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430791/

I hope  you're wrong.
I do not believe there is an organized cover up coming all the way from the Netherlands. There might be a few people from Holland being involved in a cover up but I do not believe the Dutch Government is covering this, it is nearly impossible.

Bram Moszkowicz is not just a layer.

[Tamikosmom]

I speculate that the civil suit brought against the VDS' by Beth Holloway will never go forward.  The continued manipulation of Dutch law that has denied Natalee Holloway justice for almost three years will be where it is at.

Think about ... manipulation of Dutch law has protected Paulus and Joran for three years ...
 
Also ... Holland is fully aware that snowball effect of "discovery" will be too far reaching.  Those at all levels of the Dutch/Aruban administrations who were involved in or aware of the coverup will be exposed for who they are ... corrupt.

Janet

+++++++++++

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 14, 2005

VAN SUSTEREN: They are saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they're keeping Karen Janssen on ...

TWITTY: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ... it has to be.


Joe Scarborough
'Scarborough Country'
June 30, 2005

SCARBOROUGH: Friends, let me tell you something. This is an incestuous investigation. That‘s what Washington officials are saying. I have got to tell you, it‘s so obvious. You look at this. You have the Dutch government. And I was told—another source told me today, if you really want to know what‘s going on in Aruba, if you want to understand why we can‘t get to the bottom of anything, you know what? You can‘t search for answers in Aruba. You have got to follow it, follow that trail all the way over to the Netherlands, because that‘s where the real power of this investigation is.

And they are the ones that many in Washington, D.C., believe are covering up this investigation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430791/

Good Morning Janet,

Unfortunately, you might be right about the law suit not going forward.  But if it doesn't, the world outrage will be much greater than after the video was aired.  I don't think it's about money, either.  Beth is trying to expose them and if The Hague blocks this law suit she will in effect be exposing The Hague.  I think that Beth will win no mater what happens.  It's about time that the worm is finally turning.

 

SS ... I agree.

Beth promised Aruban Prime Minister Oduber that she would be Natalee's voice ... Natalee's voice crying out for justice .... for as long as it took.  I believe that the lawsuit is just one more avenue that this amazing woman is travelling in fulfilling that pledge.  For the sake of other "Natalees" Beth will not allow the her daughter to become a distance memory.

Janet

++++++++++


Beth Twitty
'Scarborough Country'
October 24, 2005

HOLLOWAY-TWITTY:  I met with Prime Minister Oduber. I don‘t care who you put the pressure on, where it comes from, but I want—you need to figure it out. You need to figure out who needs to apply the pressure and where it needs to be applied, because you have to solve this crime. I said, you do not want to turn me loose from this island without an answer.”

<snipped>

TWITTY: I have told Prime Minister Oduber that I will do this, I will be the voice of Natalee for the next 40 years. And I hope I have that long, because I will do it as long as I can.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9813596/

[igsigs]

Henk Strootman ... sounds familiar.

I think he is guy that reported that wiretaps were installed during the Sloot search - and that Joran cancelled his trip home - and they got nothing out of it. IIRC!

[WhiskeyGirl]

This was confirmed to me by Diario days ago...Basterd in hiding!!!

Thanks Janet....I love board games too    Have you ever played Othello...the game with black and white stones?...big fun!

You bet Destiny! His lawyer Bert as much as tells us the real reason he is in there. He doesn't want to testify! Those Van der Sloots sure know how to work the system don't they?

I have to wonder what kind of treatment someone like Joran gets. 

Do they encourage him to tell the truth?

Do they encourage him to tell lies?

Do they encourage him to take responsibility for his actions?

Do they encourage him to take responsibility for the results of his many changing stories?

What exactly are they able to do for him?

What is the treatment for someone like Joran?

What is the purpose of such a facility? 

Treatment?  Does treatment include avoiding legal action?

[Blonde]

Did We Know this?

Tattoo is Back!
 Entertainment      Tuesday, March 25th, 2008
Marcus Wigging welcomed guests on board Tattoo, on Friday. Tattoo looked amazing, all lit up and festive, pumping music and pouring drinks, just what you expect. The giant party boat received a total facelift just recently in honor of its debut this week as a Sunset Celebration boat.

Sunset Celebration, a 5 pm ritual-on-the-water will be orchestrated each evening. Tattoo will be charging very reasonably for the trip, and offering a great happy-hour bar.

Non-stop entertainment is the key, says Marcus, Carnival music, salsa dancers, a countdown salute to sunset, cool and hip staff members, juicy burgers and chicken wings, in short, “It’s Five O’clock Somewhere,” and Tattoo is back, you may laugh, dance, talk, …

bla bla bla   http://www.aruba.com/news/

[klaasend]

Did We Know this?

Tattoo is Back!
 Entertainment      Tuesday, March 25th, 2008
Marcus Wigging welcomed guests on board Tattoo, on Friday. Tattoo looked amazing, all lit up and festive, pumping music and pouring drinks, just what you expect. The giant party boat received a total facelift just recently in honor of its debut this week as a Sunset Celebration boat.

Sunset Celebration, a 5 pm ritual-on-the-water will be orchestrated each evening. Tattoo will be charging very reasonably for the trip, and offering a great happy-hour bar.

Non-stop entertainment is the key, says Marcus, Carnival music, salsa dancers, a countdown salute to sunset, cool and hip staff members, juicy burgers and chicken wings, in short, “It’s Five O’clock Somewhere,” and Tattoo is back, you may laugh, dance, talk, …

bla bla bla   http://www.aruba.com/news/

Yes, we did know and one of their first outings was for Club Arias 

[dennisintn]

they're still encouraging dangerous behavior on the hapless isle.  laughing, dancing, talking, and having fun on the beach is considered a legitimate reason for killing you and hiding your body. 
dennisintn