October 18, 2019, 05:43:58 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: NEW CHILD BOARD CREATED IN THE POLITICAL SECTION FOR THE 2016 ELECTION
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08  (Read 236976 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Buckeye
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5375



« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2008, 07:15:53 PM »

Rob

You're being called, on the Dutch thread.  I don't think johann knows where this thread is. 
Logged
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 37153



« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2008, 08:17:54 PM »

Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.

IIRC, didn't JVDS say somewhere that he wanted a trial?  Something to help put all this behind him?

Is Beth the only plaintiff in this case? 

Has the case been filed? 

I'm wondering who the defendants are, as compared to who is on the witness list.

Would business interests in Aruba be likely to file a similar case against the defendants for damage to the island's tourist reputation?

Are the judges that hear civil cases in Holland a separate legal specialty?  Or, would someone who hears criminal cases possibly be assigned?  Do judges hear a mix of civil and criminal cases?

Could testimony under oath be used in a criminal case?  If one witness is no witness in a criminal case, what if you find another witness while someone is under oath?

The manipulation of Dutch Law in the Natalee Holloway has given the impression to the world that the Aruban Justice System has nothing to do with justice for the victim.

Janet 

+++++++++++++

Holloway Case Suspect Regrets No Trial
AMSTERDAM, Netherlands Dec 23, 2007 (AP)


A former suspect in the disappearance in Aruba of American teenager Natalee Holloway told a Dutch newspaper he regretted that he was not formally prosecuted for any crime.

Joran van der Sloot, 20, was re-arrested in Aruba in November for a new interrogation about Holloway's disappearance in 2005. But public prosecutors on the island closed their investigation Dec. 18, saying they believed Holloway was dead but they did not have enough evidence to prosecute van der Sloot or two other former suspects.

"I would have liked to have seen a trial so that everything could be out in the open," van der Sloot told newspaper DAG in his first public remarks since being released on Dec. 7. The newspaper published excerpts from the interview Sunday. DAG spokesman Bob Witman said the interview was conducted via e-mail with van der Sloot in Aruba, where he is currently staying.

All three suspects denied any involvement in Holloway's disappearance.

Van der Sloot, who is Dutch, denied there was any new evidence to prompt his arrest again last month, as prosecutors had asserted.

"There was no new evidence at all," he told the paper. "Dutch detectives tried to get me to talk for 15 days. They told me that Natalee was dead."

Prosecutors say their new evidence was a statement by one of the suspects during a tapped Internet chat in which he said Holloway was dead. But defense lawyers denied that.

Van der Sloot said he believed his latest arrest was intended to please American media.

"I've been declared guilty without any factual evidence and I'm left to prove my innocence," he told the paper.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/wireStory?id=4045542


Holloway Case Conviction No Slam Dunk
Under Aruban Law, Suspect's Own Words Can't Be Used Against Him
By JEFFREY KOFMAN
Feb. 4, 2008


It will be difficult under Aruban law for prosecutors to build a case against Joran Van der Sloot in the Natalee Holloway case, according to Nico Jörg, Aruba's advocate general, and acting attorney general.

<snipped>

Jörg emphasized that there are fundamental differences between the laws of the United States and laws in Aruba. For example, there is no trial by jury in this tiny island nation of just 103,000 citizens. All trials are by judge only. A suspect's own words can't be used to implicate him or her, and there is no such thing as perjury for a suspect in Aruba.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=4240906&page=1
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 37153



« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2008, 08:37:42 PM »

Is it possible that the reopening of the Natalee Holloway case and ... the continuing of the investigation as well as ... Joran once again being declaring a prime suspect ... that charges will be brought by the proscutors and ... Joran will go to trial.

The civil suit brought again the VDS' by Beth will give Aruba a message ... this mother is not going to be appeased until there is justice for her precious daughter.

Janet

++++++++++


No custody for Van der Sloot
02/15/2008


The OM has no statutory remedies left against the decision. The investigation in the Holloway-case will continue with 25 detectives working on it and Van der Sloot remains the suspect.

The OM will decide on further prosecution of Van der Sloot after they are done with the investigation.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/


February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judge’s decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues


On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2605.msg350819#msg350819


Holloway Case Conviction No Slam Dunk
Under Aruban Law, Suspect's Own Words Can't Be Used Against Him
By JEFFREY KOFMAN
Feb. 4, 2008


It will be difficult under Aruban law for prosecutors to build a case against Joran Van der Sloot in the Natalee Holloway case, according to Nico Jörg, Aruba's advocate general, and acting attorney general.

In an interview with ABC News, Jörg outlined several possible options for prosecuting the young Dutch/Aruban man, a suspect in the disappearance of the Alabama teen, who went to the island on holiday more than two years ago.

Jörg emphasized that there are fundamental differences between the laws of the United States and laws in Aruba. For example, there is no trial by jury in this tiny island nation of just 103,000 citizens. All trials are by judge only. A suspect's own words can't be used to implicate him or her, and there is no such thing as perjury for a suspect in Aruba.

The acting attorney general said prosecutors will look at the following possible charges:

AIDING AND ABETTING FIRST DEGREE MURDER — Possible sentence: Life in prison. This would require prosecutors to prove "conditional intent" on the part of Van der Sloot. In the undercover videotape obtained by a Dutch journalist, Van der Sloot says he can't say for sure that Holloway was actually dead when he called a friend to help him dispose of her body, after she passed out on the beach and began shaking uncontrollably. Jörg told ABC News that to prove this charge, prosecutors would need medical experts to talk about the effects of alcohol poisoning on a body.

INJURY TO HEALTH CAUSING DEATH — Possible sentence: 6 to 9 years. Prosecutors would want to prove that Van der Sloot knowingly gave Holloway too much alcohol. In previous statements, he has admitted giving her a drink of Bacardi 151, which is 75 percent alcohol.

ACCIDENTAL DEATH — Possible sentence: 9 months. Prosecutors would have to demonstrate that Van der Sloot did not take reasonable precautions when he noticed Holloway was unconscious.


http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=4240906&page=1


ILLEGAL DISPOSAL OF A CORPSE — Possible sentence: 6 months. On the undercover tape, Van der Sloot says he called his friend, and asked him to bring his boat to the beach so that Holloway's body could be thrown deep in the ocean.

MISDEMEANOR CHARGE FOR NOT GIVING HELP TO SOMEONE IN NEED — Possible sentence: 6 months.


All of these charges require that prosecutors have independent evidence placing Van der Sloot with Holloway at the time of her death.

Jörg notes that, even if Van der Sloot is convicted of one of the lesser crimes listed above, the months he has already spent in prison would be deducted from any future conviction.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=4240906&page=2

Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 37153



« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2008, 08:51:31 PM »

Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.



Peaches ... I do not believe that the "powers that be" in the Aruban coverup are going to allow Beth's civil suit to go forward.  There has been an Aruban agenda from the getgo to assure that the truth ...  involving those who participating in the event of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... are never revealed.

I tend to believe that this lawsuit is another avenue that Beth is travelling to send a message to Aruba that she is not going to fade away from the Aruban scene ... a message to Aruba that she will not be appeased until there is justice for Natalee.

Peaches ... if I am wrong in my speculation ... it will truly be a happy day for me.  I pray every day that a miracle will evolve and ... justice will be served for the 18 year old American citizen who never returned from a mini vacation in Aruba.

Janet

+++++++++++


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/15/ng.01.html

Jug Twitty
NANCY GRACE
February 15, 2008

HUGHES: Well, Jug, let me ask you this, do you think that Joran van der Sloot will ever be arrested and brought to trial in Natalee`s case?

TWITTY: I`d like to hope that he would, but I doubt it. You know, I pray every night that something will happen, somebody will say something. But to be honest, Holly, there`s so many people involved in this, it was a huge cover-up from the beginning. And there are so many people protecting him that I don`t know if they`d ever bring him to trial.
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 37153



« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2008, 08:56:47 PM »

While I am through talking to myself.

 

A board game with my grandson and grandaughter (4/6) is where it is at.  Maybe Chutes and Ladders or ... maybe Guess Who.  I went for lunch with their mother and ... ended up bring these two Munchkins home for a special weekend for Mama and Papa.

Hi San ... you have been very quiet lately ... I miss your posts.  I hope all is well.

Later ... Janet

Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
dennisintn
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1046


« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2008, 09:09:55 PM »

Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.



Peaches ... I do not believe that the "powers that be" in the Aruban coverup are going to allow Beth's civil suit to go forward.  There has been an Aruban agenda from the getgo to assure that the truth ...  involving those who participating in the event of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... are never revealed.

I tend to believe that this lawsuit is another avenue that Beth is travelling to send a message to Aruba that she is not going to fade away from the Aruban scene ... a message to Aruba that she will not be appeased until there is justice for Natalee.

Peaches ... if I am wrong in my speculation ... it will truly be a happy day for me.  I pray every day that a miracle will evolve and ... justice will be served for the 18 year old American citizen who never returned from a mini vacation in Aruba.

Janet

+++++++++++


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/15/ng.01.html

Jug Twitty
NANCY GRACE
February 15, 2008

HUGHES: Well, Jug, let me ask you this, do you think that Joran van der Sloot will ever be arrested and brought to trial in Natalee`s case?

TWITTY: I`d like to hope that he would, but I doubt it. You know, I pray every night that something will happen, somebody will say something. But to be honest, Holly, there`s so many people involved in this, it was a huge cover-up from the beginning. And there are so many people protecting him that I don`t know if they`d ever bring him to trial.

tm, i thought this suit was being filed in holland.  from what i've read in their papers, the dutch don't think very highly of their aruban counterparts.  with jvds living in holland, most likely they can keep the case there.  hopefully, anyway.  i agree that it would never come to trial on the happy island, or if it did, beth could never, ever win it there.
dennisintn
Logged
San
Super Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15882



« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2008, 09:27:51 PM »

While I am through talking to myself.

 

A board game with my grandson and grandaughter (4/6) is where it is at.  Maybe Chutes and Ladders or ... maybe Guess Who.  I went for lunch with their mother and ... ended up bring these two Munchkins home for a special weekend for Mama and Papa.

Hi San ... you have been very quiet lately ... I miss your posts.  I hope all is well.

Later ... Janet


Hi Janet, all is good with me.  I have been busy and I mostly read.
Logged
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 37153



« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2008, 10:55:38 PM »

Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.



Peaches ... I do not believe that the "powers that be" in the Aruban coverup are going to allow Beth's civil suit to go forward.  There has been an Aruban agenda from the getgo to assure that the truth ...  involving those who participating in the event of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... are never revealed.

I tend to believe that this lawsuit is another avenue that Beth is travelling to send a message to Aruba that she is not going to fade away from the Aruban scene ... a message to Aruba that she will not be appeased until there is justice for Natalee.

Peaches ... if I am wrong in my speculation ... it will truly be a happy day for me.  I pray every day that a miracle will evolve and ... justice will be served for the 18 year old American citizen who never returned from a mini vacation in Aruba.

Janet

+++++++++++


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0802/15/ng.01.html

Jug Twitty
NANCY GRACE
February 15, 2008

HUGHES: Well, Jug, let me ask you this, do you think that Joran van der Sloot will ever be arrested and brought to trial in Natalee`s case?

TWITTY: I`d like to hope that he would, but I doubt it. You know, I pray every night that something will happen, somebody will say something. But to be honest, Holly, there`s so many people involved in this, it was a huge cover-up from the beginning. And there are so many people protecting him that I don`t know if they`d ever bring him to trial.

tm, i thought this suit was being filed in holland.  from what i've read in their papers, the dutch don't think very highly of their aruban counterparts.  with jvds living in holland, most likely they can keep the case there.  hopefully, anyway.  i agree that it would never come to trial on the happy island, or if it did, beth could never, ever win it there.
dennisintn



Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 14, 2005


VAN SUSTEREN: They are saying that even the AG is controlled by The Hague, so they're keeping Karen Janssen on ...

TWITTY: Well Greta, somebody is lobbying for Joran in the Hague in order to protect him ... it has to be.


Joe Scarborough
'Scarborough Country'
June 30, 2005


SCARBOROUGH: Friends, let me tell you something. This is an incestuous investigation. That‘s what Washington officials are saying. I have got to tell you, it‘s so obvious. You look at this. You have the Dutch government. And I was told—another source told me today, if you really want to know what‘s going on in Aruba, if you want to understand why we can‘t get to the bottom of anything, you know what? You can‘t search for answers in Aruba. You have got to follow it, follow that trail all the way over to the Netherlands, because that‘s where the real power of this investigation is.

And they are the ones that many in Washington, D.C., believe are covering up this investigation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8430791/
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 37153



« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2008, 11:27:44 PM »

THE HAGUE AND THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY INVESTIGATION

Beth Twitty
At Large w/ Geraldo Rivera
August 12, 2005


GERALDO: On Tuesday, Sept. 6th, the Dutch teenager, Joran Van der Sloot, the prime suspect in the disappearanceof Natalee Holloway, arrived in the Netherlands followinghis release from prison a couple of days earlier in Aruba.Van der Sloot, who has acknowledged spending the eveningwith Natalee before her disappearance but has denied any wrong doing arrived in the Amsterdam airport with his dad, another potential suspect in the case. He /they ignored all questions from the reporters and quickly departed the airport.

Our next guest, our dear friend, believes that the government in Aruba took advantage of our intense, very necessary and appropriate focus on Hurricane Katrina to make this dramatic move and let Van der Sloot sleaze his way off the island of Aruba. Beth joins us tonight from Little Rock.  So, first of all hi, how’s your spirits?

Beth: Hi Geraldo. Well it’s pretty tough hanging in there with all that has happened, and you are exactly right, Geraldo.  It was a PR dream for the Dutch government to take advantage of such a catastrophic event in the United States in order to release these suspects.

Geraldo: Were you down there kind of screaming don’t forget us as they got to the airport and got on the plane?

BETH: Well, it’s just incredible that they chose to act under these circumstances. I think it just shows the world that . . . what all that we have been put through, . . . and when there’s involvement with the Dutch government, as we have been in Aruba.

GERALDO: It shows the world, Beth, but never the less the prime suspect in the disappearance of your daughter is now free, although technically I guess he remains a suspect.  After the arrest of that other guy and the Kalpoe brothers on that rape tape of the 14 year old I thought they were going to be in for awhile, or at least they would be in, but they are out too, aren’t they?

BETH: Oh, yes, Geraldo. You know when I heard you state that Joran is still stating that he had no involvement with her disappearance but something that Jug and Dave, Natalee’s father and I have had knowledge of since early in July, so we have Joran’s statements. We have had them translated for us, and we have at least five. You know, Geraldo, what has been so difficult for us is that we have had this knowledge that Joran has admitted to having sex with Natalee AT HIS HOME as she is coming in and out of consciousness. You know we have protected the integrity of the investigation because we felt that was the professional way to handle this but you know when we have been slapped in the face by the Dutch government and . . .

GERALDO: You say that Van der Sloot admits in his police statement that he is having sex with your daughter, whom I believe was a virgin before she went to Aruba, as she lapses in and out of consciousness?

BETH: Absolutely Geraldo.

GERALDO: Isn’t there a law , as I recall, one of the things the Kalpoe brothers were suspected of in the porno tapes that they did with the 14 year old was having sex with someone with whom did not have the capacity to give consent. Its seems to me that if your daughter was phasing in and out of consciousness she can not legally consent to have sex.

BETH: Absolutely, Geraldo, that’s why we were so shocked on Sept. 1st because even the Dutch interrogators that have knowledge of these statements, the lists of inconsistencies are there, the reasonable doubt is there. We were just truly shocked that the sudden release of these suspects. We just can not fathom how this has happened and how rape is not a crime within the Dutch government.

GERALDO: It is outrageous, Beth. I really didn’t know about those statements. You say there are more. You should really share them with me and I will, not necessarily now, but I will blast them, believe me. I told you I would be there to the end with you and I will be. I think it is really retched, it really is.  So what are you going to do now?

BETH: Well, Geraldo, I think that we have had so many millions of people that have supported us in prayer and have sent us cards and emails. The main thing that we would like to ask right now is to please, please just consider not traveling to Aruba or within the Dutch Kingdom and territory until Natalee is returned to her country, because they can absolutely make this happen, Geraldo.

GERALDO: Make happen what? What do you want?  Do you want a boycott on Aruba?

BETH: I would please like for them to consider not to travel to Aruba until she is returned, and the Dutch Kingdom territories, Geraldo. You know if we did not feel that they knew exactly where she was we would not be seeking this, but we have been such slapped in the face by the present government that is in place that its just hard for us not to begin to make this request now.

GERALDO: How is your boy faring, starting school, he’s 16 right?

BETH: Well, actually Geraldo, he is 17 now. I am going to see him Tuesday. I just flew in from Aruba this morning. I am going to spend a week in Birmingham and I am looking forward to that. We are gong to be re-grouping. This is not over. We are going to continue, Geraldo.

GERALDO: Save your strength. You know we love you. Courage. Regards to everybody. Really, call me with that data because I will use it, I will whack them with it.

BETH: Ok, Thanks Geraldo.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/09/12/beth-holloway-twitty-finally-says-it-dont-travel-to-aruba/
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 37153



« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2008, 11:34:05 PM »

THE HAGUE AND THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
November 9, 2005


VAN SUSTEREN: All right, the idea of the boycott and Governor Riley how did this come about?

TWITTY: You know, Greta, I was thinking about that. Aruba really has made us evolve to this position because, you know, what Aruba and The Hague have done to us is they've been dishonest from the beginning. If they would just have been forthcoming from the beginning to lead us to the proper authorities we would never be in this position right now.

VAN SUSTEREN: Can you identify one particular person, if we could sort of chisel away and find out who it is that we need to get to, to get information, so that we can sort of break this log jam who is that person?

TWITTY: Well, I think that's the $64 question and now we've got Aruba playing the blame game with The Hague. I mean I thought only the suspects were doing the blame game. It looks like Aruba and The Hague now are playing the blame game, Greta. It's hard to tell.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right and just so that the viewers, I understand what you're talking about, you got a letter in which it explained what the Arubans said to you that The Hague has been calling the shots, is that right, in the investigation?

TWITTY: Yes, they're saying, in the letter it states that the Aruban government has no authority to intervene in the investigation. Now then why have we been running around on the island submitting written and verbal requests for help from the governor, from the minister of justice, the prime minister? I mean the list is endless, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there, I mean like where is most of your frustration? Is it directed at a particular person? I mean I know that fundamentally that you want information about your daughter. Every parent wants that. But is there someone who you think is standing in the way more than another?

TWITTY: I don't think it's someone. I think it's something. I think it's the dishonesty that has been coming out of that island since May 31st and all we have wanted for them to be as honest with us and be forthcoming and tell us and lead us in the proper direction. That's all we've asked. That's all we've asked of them.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175101,00.html
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
crazymom
Monkey Junky Jr.
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 809



« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2008, 11:36:42 PM »

Hey Monkeys.  I lurk often but haven't signed into the thread for a while. 

Gotta say......GET 'EM BETH!!!!!

Also, thanks for the prayers last night during the tornado that hit Little Rock last night.  We were only about 1/2 mile away from where the tornado hit!!!  We didn't receive any damage.  It was quite frightening for me and my children.  Hubby won't admit he was a tad scared himself. LOL.

A strange thing happened while we were tracking the storms on TV.  I looked out over my back deck and noticed the clouds were really racing overhead but not a tree was moving.  That is when they told my area to take immediate cover.  All my friends and family are safe. 

P.S.  I think I need to change clothes....I wonder if there is a new avi for me in the lounge?
Logged
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 37153



« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2008, 11:50:24 PM »

THE HAGUE AND THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

Dave Holloway
Scarborough Country
November 7, 2005


Joe: Another strange twist in the Holloway story tonight. Aruba authorities have sent a letter to Alabama Governor Bob Riley that may make a new investigation even harder to move forward with.

The letter says in part:

The chief prosecutor leading the investigation and the General Prosecutor are appointed by the Kingdom Government in the Hague. Because of separation of powers, the government of Aruba has no authority to intervene in the investigation.”

Dept. of Foreign Affairs, Nov. 4

Source: Dept of Foreign Affairs, Aruba


Joining us is Dave Holloway.

Joe: After all these months you and your family have been suffering, you find out that the Aruba authorities claim they have absolutely no say in this investigation?  Where do you go from here?

Dave: Well, that’s really unbelievable that they take the wash their hands approach.  We’re going to proceed on with The Hague, I guess. Also, our six page letter we were asked to provide to the Attorney General and we provided a carbon copy to the PM and Condoleezza Rice. We have not heard a response to that letter yet.

Joe: Dave, I’ve been asking the question for months on people down on the ground down in Aruba who has the power to run this investigation? Who has the power to hire? Who has the power to fire? Who has the power to subpoena? Nobody seems to know. This really does look like a banana republic down there. Anytime anyone gets cornered down there, they just point the finger across the Atlantic.

Dave: Well, that seems to be the case. We’ve been running around in circles for five months now. When we reduce it down to writing, they put it back in writing and it’s obvious they are pointing the finger somewhere else now.

Joe: So you are I guess at the end of the line as far as dealing with the Aruba authorities? Now you just have to take up with the Dutch government?

Dave: That’s what it appears to be. With the Dutch government and with the Attorney General. Mind you, the minister of justice had mentioned about a month ago that he felt like this would … just leave it alone and it will go away. So we know what his approach is now.

Joe: The new chief investigator, someone that you all looked forward to having on but now Dompig seems actually to be as big an obstacle as anything. He’s actually come out and attacked you all, hasn’t he?

Dave: Well, he’s attacked Beth in some sense by putting out on the island that she might be involved somehow in Natalee’s disappearance and making money off of it.  So it looks to me that he’s trying to incite anti Beth sentiment across the country of Aruba.

Joe: You know Dave we’re so frustrated, I know you all just have to be beyond yourselves right now. The question a lot of people are asking is what can we do?  Is this the time we go to Governor Riley and other people and talk about a possible boycott of Aruba? Is it that time yet or are you all going to play this out a little longer?

Dave: Well, the people of Aruba have elected their officials and their officials have spoken. We have elected officials and we’ll let our elected officials speak.

Joe: Will you make any requests of the elected officials to possibly move forward with a boycott of Aruba?

Dave: Well, again Joe, we elect our officials and they decide what is necessary for the people. Whatever the governor decides, that’s what we’ll do.

Joe: Okay thank you so much Dave Holloway. As always, know that our thoughts and prayers will be with you and your entire family. Friends it sounds like a show down is coming. Can you believe after 5 months of this family going through this private hell … this personal hell … and after all of this time it just keeps getting pushed around.

They are getting no answers. They get to the point where there is a new investigator they believe they are going to get answers on how their daughter disappeared and most likely died. Right as they push them right to the wall, the Aruba authorities say wait a second, we’ve got no authority. I tell you what; I’m not waiting for the government. We’re going to look into a boycott sometime soon.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/11/07/dave-holloway-responds-to-letter-to-governor-riley-regarding-the-natalee-holloway-investigation/

Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 37153



« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2008, 12:04:22 AM »

THE HAGUE AND THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE

Aruba requesting Internal Affairs Minister Johan Remkes assistance in investigating the Natalee Holloway case is another conflict of interest.

On January 1, 2003 ... Johan Remkes endorsed the the appointment of Paulus van der Sloot to "deputy member of the common Court of Justice of the Netherlands antilles and Aruba".

I will go out on a limb and ... speculate that all the judges who gave favorable rulings for the suspects in the Natalee Holloway case were appointed by some "duputy member of the common Court of the Justice of the Netherlands antilles and Aruba".

Obviously ... the Dutch investigation was all a "dog and pony show".  Nothing the implied justice for Natalee Holloway ever evolved.  The lying declarations in the case file were never challenged.

Janet

++++++++++++++

ASSOCIATED PRESS

August 26, 2006
Aruba wants Dutch police to take over Natalee case


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) — Aruban authorities want Dutch police to take over the investigation of the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, who vanished on the Caribbean island more than one year ago, a local newspaper reported Friday.  Aruba's Justice Minister Rudy Croes sent a letter last week to Netherlands' Internal Affairs Minister Johan Remkes and to another Dutch official asking the Dutch police to handle the case, saying little progress had been made, the Solo di Pueblo newspaper reported.

If Dutch police take over the investigation, they will have access to all case files and their own office, according to the newspaper, which didn't cite its source. Remkes will visit the Dutch Caribbean islands, including Aruba, next week, authorities said in the Netherlands.

Telephone calls placed to Croes' office for comment Friday went unanswered.

Holloway vanished on May 30, 2005, the last night of a high school graduation trip to Aruba. Then 18, the native of Mountain Brook was last seen leaving a bar with three young men.

Authorities have arrested eight people in connection with her disappearance and then released them for lack of evidence.

Copyright 2005 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210525,00.html
 
http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/060826/aruba.shtml
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 37153



« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2008, 12:10:01 AM »

Crazymom ... I am thankful that dispite all the devastion to property and ... personal lives ... brought on by the tornado ... there were no fatalities.

I have heard the expression "The lull before the storm."  Maybe that is what you were experiencing ... in the eerie stillness as the clouds  were racing overhead.

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet
9:10

Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
GBMW
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 330


« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2008, 04:01:46 AM »

Goodmorning!

Hereby the translation of a new blog on Patricks site....I had to do it quickly so there might be a few mistakes in it but it it's always a bit better than the google translation Wink



The summonses of Bram Moszkowicz mother Holloway Case

I wrote him a few days ago whether he had any news for my blog, so I can tell my thousands of readers. I didn't hear anything from him, but now I understand that Mr. Bram must have been busy with the summonses. The process that Beth wants to start in civil court is now really going to begin.

Personally, I haven't recieved the subpoena yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Of course I am more than happy to help Beth. She has suffered so much.

It is still not clear what is going to happen with Joran concerning a criminal case. But this process to  demand shockdamage could already give some satisfaction. In the Netherlands the amounts are much smaller than in the United States. Eventually in the case of O.J. Simpson about $ 8.5 million was awarded. In the Netherlands those kind of amounts are unusual. It would quite something if a Dutch court would award Beth € 100,000 is she wins. Perhaps in this case, for the first time, there will be a higher amount. The life of Natalees' parents have been disrupted for years already.

Under Dutch law it's not that simple with shockdamages, mainly when it concerns victims of accidents. Our highest court awarded in 2002 the right to damages for the first time. A mother got € 13,000 when she got a psychological injury after seeing her dead  daughter at the crime scene.

The case of Joran is obviously something different. But this gives you one example of how low the damages always turn out. Our right is actually only the material damage compensation, such as cost of living when the person that makes the money in a household died. The death of a child, no matter how hard that may sound, is worth little in Dutch law. Usually it is not more than the funeral expenses plus a little extra. It gives us a bit of an idea. The commercialisation of grief, dispicable legal practices in a claimculture. So if the Dutch government rarely accepts schockdamages that will also have an effect in these kind of cases.

The lawyers of  Beth will probably go for the so-called onrechtmatige daad (unlawful act??? sorry don't know the translation!). This is an article in our Civil Code. It is positive for Beth that such a process means they have to testify under oath & anything can be asked and that they have no right to silence, like a criminal. Joran has frequently made use of that right to remain silent and kept his mouth shut. That's not an option anymore. His parents will be heard under oath as well. That could have a major impact. Suppose, for example, that they know a lot more about the case or that Joran is helped by his father. If his father would lie during this process and that were to come out during a possible criminal case then he has committed perjury. On perjury there is an imprisonment of six years and / or a fine of € 18,500. This applies also for all the other family members who would consult perjury, including Joran course.

It is difficult to prove an unlawful act for the judge. There is a lot to it. For example, the act has to be attributed to Joran or his relatives. It must be proven that the act is due to the debt or to a cause that was created by the acts or omissions of Joran and / or his parents. It was very stupid of Joran to say on Pauw & Witteman that he was only telling me a story. Something you obviously don't do when the feelings / hurt of parents are at stake.

The Kalpoe brothers were also summoned. Although in all my conversations with Joran it seemed like they have nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee, Beth's lawyer of course wants to know why they gave Joran a false alibi.

Joran has put himself under treatment in a psychiatric institution. He is getting therapy for people who are stuck in everyday life and suffer from behavioural and psychiatric problems. According to some people he might have done this to avoid this process. As long as Joran is treated, his lawyer would be able to say that he is not in a position to answer. Meanwhile, of course, the case can start with the questioning of other witnesses. Normally these kinds of lawsuits take longer than a year.

I will keep you well informed about this case here. Personally, I will be heard as a witness in this process on a completely voluntarily basis. 
Logged
Vicki
Scared Monkey
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 159



« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2008, 05:07:00 AM »

Wow..Thank you so much for translating....thank God for Peter....Let Justice finally happen...Beth and Dave are in my prayers...
Logged
WhiskeyGirl
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7754



« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2008, 06:06:04 AM »

Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.



Peaches ... I do not believe that the "powers that be" in the Aruban coverup are going to allow Beth's civil suit to go forward.  There has been an Aruban agenda from the getgo to assure that the truth ...  involving those who participating in the event of the morning of May 30, 2005 ... are never revealed.

I tend to believe that this lawsuit is another avenue that Beth is travelling to send a message to Aruba that she is not going to fade away from the Aruban scene ... a message to Aruba that she will not be appeased until there is justice for Natalee.

Peaches ... if I am wrong in my speculation ... it will truly be a happy day for me.  I pray every day that a miracle will evolve and ... justice will be served for the 18 year old American citizen who never returned from a mini vacation in Aruba.

Janet

+++++++++++
(snipped)

Your comments pose an interesting question.  I was thinking that perhaps some on Aruba would want to join or start a similar suit.  I still think of all the evidence (recordings, interviews, evidence, etc.) that remains in the darkness, not known to the public.  What kind of nuggets are in there?  What kind of dark ugly secrets?

I wonder what kind of monkey wrench Aruba can throw into Beth's civil suit in Holland?  Maybe even some in the Hague?

I often thought the VDS family is related to the Queen or some high ranking government officials.  I wonder if the wheels are turning as I type this?

I can't imagine the worst thing that could happen if the suspects and witness testified under oath.  Lock themselves into a single version of events.  jmho

I wonder when the legal maneurvering begins?  The public and media eye are on the proceedings in Holland, even if they've been diverted by a mini-movie. 

Will nepotism, cronyism, conflict of interest, and family relations play a part in the civil case?  Will Koen G. and his family be summoned?  I think his father would be an interesting person to question.  Would it be harder to call this family to testify?  IIRC, they were reported to have moved to the U.S. 
Logged

All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
WhiskeyGirl
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7754



« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2008, 06:13:32 AM »

BFN has a thread "John Silvetti, the Persistence and the Search for Natalee".

John does address questions, and for those that do not read there, here are some snips -

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
I would like to give everyone at BFN an update on where we stand.  The Persistence completed surveying the initial and extended grids.  Basically, this means that the sonar survey was completed.  Over 275 targets of interest were picked up and analyzed by the sonar interpreters.  Only 25% of the targets were investigated by the ROV.  At that point, we had run out of money and weather.  Louis Schaefer committed a very generous amount of money towards the survey and the rest of us absorbed what we could.  However, that was all based on the initial survey grid.  Once the grid tripled, obviously so did our committments.  The weather had continually increased until we were constantly facing 20 ft. seas. The Persistence can handle 20 foot seas, however, it is very dangerous for the crew and impossible to collect data.  It was taking us 3 days to complete what took us only 1 day the month before.  It was time to call it off.  This was a very difficult thing to do as we had all prepared ourselves to either find Natalee or not.  None of us were prepared to leave not knowing one way or the other.  I believe once the reality set in that we were going to leave without knowing, that was the lowest point in morale of the entire trip.  It took a few days for everyone to shake it off and complete what we could.

Quote from: Jamie
Dear John. No, this isn't a goodbye note. lol I would personally like to thank you, Mr. Schaefer, Kyle and ALL of you, for everything you have done and are continuing to do, for Natalee. Thank you for letting us be a part of your search. You all have made us feel closer to Natalee and her family, through you on your search. I just pray that the funds you need to continue your search, will come through.

Thank you also for giving of your time and energy. You are all heroes to us. God Bless you all.

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
Thank you Jamie for your kind words.  You must realize that the support that everyone posted daily kept us upbeat and working.  You all were truly there with us.  We are currently looking for an ROV vessel we can work with to return to complete the target investigations later in the year.  I just returned last night from New England where I looked at a vessel that was being considered to do this with.

The surveyors from the Persistence were also working with the Maritime Police and Prosecutor's Office utilizing bottom scanning sonar in ponds and murky bodies of water.  This is ongoing, however, the strike on the island has brought this to a halt until the strike is settled.  Rumors claim this may happen on Monday.

Logged

All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
WhiskeyGirl
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7754



« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2008, 06:19:47 AM »

More from John ~

Quote from: Debbie
John, what can we do to insure that the search is completed?

Also, when the cage was found that was shown on Dateline (pictures also hit the internet) what thoughts, emotions, etc... went through your mind?  Can you elaborate on that for us?  Thanks!

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
The important thing is to raise funds.  It will require corporate support as well as private donations.  Dave and Beth have been doing a great job getting the word out and while I was on the island, Dave put me in contact with the head of the Hotel Association who is working on raising a sizeable amount.  So many on the island are supporting our efforts as well as people from all over the world.

The media really blew the cage out of proportion.  Although the cage initially provided some moments of "what is in there", I warned all on board that none of this information was to leave the boat.  It was very suspect that a cage of this size was found where it was on the seafloor relative to the coast.  My feelings were this was highly unusual and probably had something to do with something, but not what we were after.  It was decided that the cage would be investigated further by divers, however, it was designated as only a target of interest.  The crew moved onto other targets.  Unfortunately, inexperience and frustration led to premature statements, including that we had found her.  I don't think anyone was more upset than I that this information came off the boat and caused the Holloway family more grief!

Quote from: LegallyLex
John, a lot of BFN posters have asked me how much money would be needed to complete the search.  Can you provide an estimate on what amount would be needed?


Quote from: jdsurveyor1
It is very difficult to say, since Louis has not selected a ROV vessel and we do not know how much of a humanitarian discount we can count on by the vessel and ROV owners, but my guess is that we will be looking at around 1 million dollars.

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
]Thank you Pearl.  Your posting were read many times on the Persistence and you became part of the crew!  Your words and the words of so many inspired us to keep enduring, no matter what mother nature threw at us.  We reflected on this on the way home.  The crew worked constantly in weather conditions that were double the usual shut down weather in the Gulf of Mexico.

The relationship between the people of Aruba and the crew of the Persistence was wonderful.  Initially, there was an air of guarded reservation, on both sides, however, once they understood why we were there, not to make headlines or money, but to help the Holloway family and intrinsically the island of Aruba, they opend their arms and their homes to us.  The crew found the people of Aruba to be the "salt of the earth" hard working and family oriented people.  Many had taken time off work to join the search parties and many held prayer vigils in their churches.  We received support from the Police, the Coast Guard, the Port Authority and vitually anyone we needed help from.  One example, we needed a shallow water vessel to investigate areas we were afraid to bring the Persistence into due to water depths and unknown wrecks......a 28 foot vessel, PREDATOR, was provided to us for 4 days at no charge.  The owner would not allow us to pay for the fuel or any of the expenses.  Their support made our work progress much faster.  I am very happy to say that it would take a long time for me to list the names of everyone on the island that supported our efforts.
Logged

All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
WhiskeyGirl
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7754



« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2008, 06:23:47 AM »

Quote from: PearlInUSA
... I just read a article about water samples and sites recently done in Aruba.  One was at Hooiberg.  This made me wonder about any chance of something being done there as there was a reported cell phone call from Joran's phone made in very early morning hours.   Do you know if these individual places were actually searched with any scanning sonar?

Quote from: jdsurveyor1
I can not comment on the areas we have been working in as the OM is currently evaluating this information.  I can tell you that I did not try to tie information previously reported to every search area, only because one could spend a lifetime chasing every story and every piece of information.  Reports, previous clues, information from the Police, OM and others led us to the sites we looked at.  I can tell you I spoke to hundreds of people including authorities, x-authorities, locals, psychics (there is a story) and others.

A question about how secure the sites are -
Quote from: jdsurveyor1
Jamie,
I feel the sites are as safe as they can be.  All survey data that was collected, other than what was shared with the authorities, is in our possesion.  No data has yet to be released, especially target data......locations.
Logged

All my posts are just my humble opinions.  Please take with a grain of salt.  Smile

It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Use of this web site in any manner signifies unconditional acceptance, without exception, of our terms of use.
Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC
 
Page created in 10.21 seconds with 19 queries.