Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08

[Observer]

Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines boeing 757 in less than 6 months in Aruba, the second in 3 weeks. Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines... 
Added: April 08, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHlKqLYiZo8

There was a report also that AA and Continental Airlines diverted to Curacao because of the strike.

Sounds like a dangerous place to fly to. I think all flights should be stopped until that entire Government is replaced 

[Observer]

Barack Obama's HATEFUL Pastor disrespects Natalee Holloway

Reverend Jeremiah Wright implied that Natalee Holloway's death was insignificant and implied that she was promiscuous while her family was still searching for missing daughter. Comments printed in Trumpet magazine in August 2005, and reports have been made that Obama was in the church when the Pastor made disgusting disrespectful comments about Natalee Holloway in July. Obama has had time to learn of these facts, and he was not in a campgaign when these statements by his pastor were made, but he is a policitian so we expect he will deny knowledge of these statements.. like the statments uncovered about JEWS and Italians in the churches Trumpet magazine.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=G-3YCS9n81c

[jackb]

STEVE CROES AND GEOFFREY VAN CROMVOIRT CONNECTION

It appears that Steve Croes was fired for leaving his night shift as a watchman on the Tattoo.

My theory implies that it was Geoffrey van Cromvoirt and Steve Croes who assisted Paulus in moving Natalee's body which had been hidden by Joran, Deepak and Satish in the bushes.

Geoffrey van Cromvoirt was not detained as a formal susect until April, 2006.  However he was assigned the same attorney as Steve Croes.  Karin Janssen had implied that this was conflict of interest when one attorney was represented both Security Guards.

Janet

This makes the most sense outta everything I have heard or speculated upon. I just wonder if Steve was involved in body disposal he would come forward and subject himself to further scrutiny and not remain under the radar?

as a family member of Steve's has told me - "Steve's not too bright"

 
Steve and GVC were good friends and their alibis would be covered if they had someone to say she was dropped off and then Steve witnessed a drop off.  That would mean she was not dead and went to the HI before disappearing.  They actually supplied themselves a tight alibi by alibi ing JVS.  jackb
/

[Tamikosmom]

Barack Obama's HATEFUL Pastor disrespects Natalee Holloway

Reverend Jeremiah Wright implied that Natalee Holloway's death was insignificant and implied that she was promiscuous while her family was still searching for missing daughter. Comments printed in Trumpet magazine in August 2005, and reports have been made that Obama was in the church when the Pastor made disgusting disrespectful comments about Natalee Holloway in July. Obama has had time to learn of these facts, and he was not in a campgaign when these statements by his pastor were made, but he is a policitian so we expect he will deny knowledge of these statements.. like the statments uncovered about JEWS and Italians in the churches Trumpet magazine.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=G-3YCS9n81c

January 27, 2008
Obama's pastor disses Natalee Holloway
'White girl goes off and gives it up' in Aruba, preacher pal

Sen. Barack Obama's longtime friend and spiritual adviser trashed the memory of a missing and presumed dead American teenage girl, according to church publications reviewed by WND.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the controversial minister of Obama's church in Chicago, cited the case of Natalee Holloway's disappearance in Aruba in complaining about what he sees as the media's bias in covering white victims of crime over black victims.

"Black women are being raped daily in Darfur, Sudan, in the Congo and in Sub-Saharan Africa. That doesn't make news," Wright said in the August 2005 edition of Trumpet Magazine, a publication of his Trinity United Church of Christ.

But, "One 18-year-old white girl from Alabama gets drunk on a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and 'gives it up' while in a foreign country, and that stays in the news for months!" he added. "Maybe I am missing something!"

The circumstances involving the coed's disappearance remain unclear, and the case remains unsolved. Holloway left Mountain Brook, Ala., on a May 2005 senior class trip to Aruba.

Attempts to reach her family for comment were unsuccessful. But her mother, Beth Holloway, has written a book, "Loving Natalee," in which she reveals her daughter named Jesus Christ as one of the most influential people in her life in a trove of writings she found in her bedroom.

In the same 2005 church publication, Wright suggested "white America" had the 9/11 attacks coming, while calling for business "divestment from Israel," which he refers to as a "racist" state along with America.

"In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01," he wrote on page 7. "White America and the Western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just 'disappeared,' as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring Black concerns."

Obama says he is "proud" of Wright and values their 20-year friendship.

Though Wright has nurtured Obama's political career as a close adviser and mentor, the Democrat presidential hopeful says they don't agree on everything. Wright married Obama and baptized his daughters.

In the November/December 2007 issue of Trumpet, Wright sang the praises of Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, who has described whites as "blue-eyed devils" and Jews as "bloodsuckers."

"He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest," Wright said. "Minister Farrakhan will be remembered as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African-American religious experience."

Wright then held Farrakhan up as a pillar of "integrity."

"His integrity and honesty have secured him a place in history as one of the nation's most powerful critics," he continued. "His love for Africa and African-American people has made him an unforgettable force, a catalyst for change and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose."

Farrakhan's photo is splashed across the cover of the church magazine, which gushes "the Minister truly epitomized greatness."

On Nov. 2, 2007, Wright presented Farrakhan with a "lifetime achievement" award during a Trumpet gala held at the Hyatt Regency Chicago. The tribute included a three-and-a-half minute video lionizing "the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan."

"For his commitment to truth, education and leadership, we honor Minister Louis Farrakhan with the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Lifetime Achievement Award," the video announces.

Last week, Obama distanced himself from Farrakhan, but did not distance himself from Wright or disavow his praise for Farrakhan.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59887

[Lala'sMom]

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

you said it..

Does this mean that Aruba confiscated any and all things found by the Persisitence? 

[jackb]

Rob
I am asking this to determine that Steve Croes was not one of those "guys" that chatted up the MB girls in the casino.  I think I can make that assumption based on the fact that Steve would have been working during that time on the Tattoo.  Steve told Deepak he saw them at the HI dropping off the girl. I think Steve wanted to know what Deepak knew and it backfired on him.  I am basing that on some things posted for me in the Shango thread. I have seen photos of Steve at Moombas before when he wasn't working.  I wish I had checked to see what time and day of the week it was.  I can't remember now how I came by those photos...I think it was someone's vacation photos and I remember him being shown walking off into the night with a girl and someone else.

Anyway, the reason was to determine if he was with Joran at the casinos during the time the MB teens were there at night on Friday and Saturday.  If the Tattoo has daytime cruises also...who DJ's those?  Surely he didn't work both times?  That would be long hours even for a young guy.  IMO

LaLa's that was just my speculation that they also had daytime cruises, they may just have the sunset cruise. 

On ships people who are staff are assigned posts to watch so many nights a month.  Often times,  depending upon how many employees it would be only one night.  They are on call and are supposed to secure the premesis.  It is overnight if their overnight duty is called for even sometimes after working  that day.  Croes was able bodied and supposed to be wanting to study to become a Captain of a ship.  He had to learn and do his time as a seaman, etc.  Jackb

[Observer]

I'M suprised the tatoo wasn't hosting a big party on the night of May 29th 2005,since it was the last night of the Soul Beach Festival. We saw how much they advertise the after Concert party's in todays paper...What time did Steve Croes arrive at C&C at? Was it also 30 minutes before closing?

[AZSunny]

Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines boeing 757 in less than 6 months in Aruba, the second in 3 weeks. Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines... 
Added: April 08, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHlKqLYiZo8

*******,  I saw another video that showed the plane landing.  I would not want to land in Aruba during this type of emergency.  Many years ago I was a crew member aboard an airliner with a similar situation.  The hydraulic gear was down, but they could not confirm that it was locked in placed.  This could have resulted in a belly landing had the gear not been locked. This occurred on arrival in Denver.  Prior to our landing the runways were foamed, and as we touched down until we stopped there were 6 fire trucks on either side of us following us  parallel down the run way.  I was a passenger arriving in San  Francisco when we had a similar situation.  At no time did they wait until we had already landed until the fire trucks started moving.  Scares me to watch this video. 

[WhiskeyGirl]

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

PI ... I agree.

I cannot comprehend how the organizers of the Persistence search considers the Aruban police ...  who are accountable to Rudy Croes ... are on the side of justice for Natalee Holloway.  Has nothing been learned from the the search that was just terminated.

If a search cannot be conducted independently of Aruba or  ... FBI agents cannot observe and document a find prior to turning it over to the Arubans ... I believe with all my heart all the sincere efforts of the crew of the Persistence is for naught.  I cannot comprehend why the Persistence did not do their own documentation and photographing prior to releasing the contents of the fish trap to the Arubans.  Too much time, finances and effort was put into the search.  Why just hand it over to the administration that has distroyed evidence and supressed incriminating witness statements from the getgo.

Janet

+++++++++++
(snip by WG)

IIRC, there were concerns voiced about the value of any evidence found for a criminal case.  What if Aruba was not involved in the gathering and documenting?

It is my belief (from the early days and today) that no criminal case would ever be brought against J2K and others.  It was my hope that something of Natalee would be returned to her family.  I remain optimistic.  This family deserves answers.  Justice for Natalee is not something I thought possible under the circumstances, just to many conflicts of interest.  mo 

When I look at the Rudy Croes & the comments about Young and Castillo, I see desperation.  When I see JVDS in hiding, I see desperation.  If anyone recognized that cage, I think the desperation would have escalated into something else.  No one is running to testify.  mo 

Who among these folks would want to see the water search continue? 

Politicians have to gain the confidence of voters every reelection.  I see an island, where the minimum wage is something like $1,200/month (IIRC).  I recall that JVDS got something like $300/month pocket money from his parents.  Maybe someone on Aruba noticed this?  I remain optimistic.

I believe most government employees on Aruba are civil servants.  In theory, they remain constant despite the administrations that come and go.  In this case, many involved early in this case, except Jacobs, seem to have left the island and/or the police force.  I remain optimistic that people and places (like an island) can change for the better.  jmho

Louis S. has given a lot of resources in the hope that Natalee would be returned to her family.  From my reading, I believe he continues to support that goal. 

There are hundreds of targets that haven't been investigated by the ROV.  There are hundreds that haven't been investigated by divers.  I have hope that Natalee is still out there.  I have hope that a bigger, better equipped ROV will do the job of documenting these sites. 

If all of these people were defeated, I would lose hope.

I do not believe the search for Natalee is over.  I believe the mapping of targets has been completed.  What remains is to further investigate these items of interest.  The data for the targets belongs to LS.

How many people may be lost in the waters surrounding Aruba I do not know.  I do know if Natalee is out there, there are many that will continue to work at returning her to her family.  The truth (and maybe a pair of gym shoes) is still out there.

It breaks my heart everytime I hear Dave, Jug, or Beth talk about Natalee.  It breaks my heart everytime I see Dave in chat.  I wonder how he can make his fingers move over the keyboard.

No one place has a monopoly on good people.  People of good character are everywhere.  mo

I believe that Aruba has to hold their administration accountable for the contents of that trap.  I have my fingers crossed.

[Observer]

Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines boeing 757 in less than 6 months in Aruba, the second in 3 weeks. Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines... 
Added: April 08, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHlKqLYiZo8

*******,  I saw another video that showed the plane landing.  I would not want to land in Aruba during this type of emergency.  Many years ago I was a crew member aboard an airliner with a similar situation.  The hydraulic gear was down, but they could not confirm that it was locked in placed.  This could have resulted in a belly landing had the gear not been locked. This occurred on arrival in Denver.  Prior to our landing the runways were foamed, and as we touched down until we stopped there were 6 fire trucks on either side of us following us  parallel down the run way.  I was a passenger arriving in San  Francisco when we had a similar situation.  At no time did they wait until we had already landed until the fire trucks started moving.  Scares me to watch this video. 

  You sound like you have earned your wings flying and if it scares you it would probably give others heart attacks. Two Emergency landings for AA in 3 weeks is a lot for that little airport.

[WhiskeyGirl]

I'M suprised the tatoo wasn't hosting a big party on the night of May 29th 2005,since it was the last night of the Soul Beach Festival. We saw how much they advertise the after Concert party's in todays paper...What time did Steve Croes arrive at C&C at? Was it also 30 minutes before closing?

How many people were locals at the festival?  I often wonder how many just went home after the show.  Someone in an early post at RWV stated that many Aruban's had to work the next day, and they just went home.  No time to party.  I think Sunday night is slow (as reported by locals). 

I wonder if any pictures of the Tattoo exist from that day?  Maybe in a distance?

[WhiskeyGirl]

Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines boeing 757 in less than 6 months in Aruba, the second in 3 weeks. Third Emergency landing of an American Airlines... 
Added: April 08, 2008

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHlKqLYiZo8

*******,  I saw another video that showed the plane landing.  I would not want to land in Aruba during this type of emergency.  Many years ago I was a crew member aboard an airliner with a similar situation.  The hydraulic gear was down, but they could not confirm that it was locked in placed.  This could have resulted in a belly landing had the gear not been locked. This occurred on arrival in Denver.  Prior to our landing the runways were foamed, and as we touched down until we stopped there were 6 fire trucks on either side of us following us  parallel down the run way.  I was a passenger arriving in San  Francisco when we had a similar situation.  At no time did they wait until we had already landed until the fire trucks started moving.  Scares me to watch this video. 

  You sound like you have earned your wings flying and if it scares you it would probably give others heart attacks. Two Emergency landings for AA in 3 weeks is a lot for that little airport.

I wonder what is happening at other airports?  Stories that may not make the international news?

[Observer]

I'M suprised the tatoo wasn't hosting a big party on the night of May 29th 2005,since it was the last night of the Soul Beach Festival. We saw how much they advertise the after Concert party's in todays paper...What time did Steve Croes arrive at C&C at? Was it also 30 minutes before closing?

How many people were locals at the festival?  I often wonder how many just went home after the show.  Someone in an early post at RWV stated that many Aruban's had to work the next day, and they just went home.  No time to party.  I think Sunday night is slow (as reported by locals). 

I wonder if any pictures of the Tattoo exist from that day?  Maybe in a distance?

Not sure..Probably a good amount of locals were at the SBF the last night. I dont recall seeing any pics of the Tatoo that night,and not too many at all period from that night. While most Arubans were heading to bed,it seems as though the Pimp party just began. I doubt any of them have alibi's that clear them on that night..Including lorenzo and paulus. I still wonder what exactly Paul Brough was uploading to his server for the first time on May 30th 2005? Is that just a coincidence that was his first day of archiving his server at mrpinkproductions?

[Observer]

Mrpinkproductions
Whois History: 27 records have been archived since 2005-05-30. 






http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2068.0

[Observer]

Has anyone looked into this http://www.guide2paradise.com/

Posted by: Island Hopper | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 12:59 PM

Sorry for the nasty link but I was intrigued that it offers girls in ARUBA. Specializes in blonds! A small island with no crime that has such a large scale prostitution ring? That is supposedly legal? I am very confused and asking if anyone else knows anything about it. Does anyone?

Posted by: Island Hopper | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:16 PM

One thing that bothered me is that some of the photos in the ad had backgrounds that looked very familiar. After checking, some photos were taken at the same location as the photos in Joran's website. I wonder if this was the rush to take his website down.

Posted by: Island Hopper | Friday, June 17, 2005 at 01:44 PM

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/one_last_thing.html

-------------------------------------

Pictures from porn video called Poolside B**** and Mr Pink(Rape and Abduction)
Was thisthe kind of films he was making in Aruba in May 2005?

[Tamikosmom]

<snipped>

I do not believe the search for Natalee is over.  I believe the mapping of targets has been completed.  What remains is to further investigate these items of interest.  The data for the targets belongs to LS.

<snipped>

The data for the targets may belong to LS but ... what is the point if the search is being conducted with the understanding  that any evidence that may be accumulated is to be to turned over to Aruba.

WhiskeyGirl ... there has to be a chain of custody.  Logic dictates that the Persistance should document, photograph and notorize the find ... the FBI should document, photograph and notorize the find ... prior to releasing it to the Arubans.  Justice for Natalee Holloway demands it.

Think about all the controversy encompassing the "blood" in Deepak's vehicle.  The Aruban Prime Minister said it was blood yet ... the samples of the fabric tested by the FBI lab turned out to be cleaning fluid.

IMO

Janet

+++++++++

Oceanexploration

Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

 

[Tamikosmom]

Good Night Monkeys

Janet
9:50 PM

[klaasend]

Good Night Monkeys

Janet
9:50 PM

Nite Janet

[Silverfox]

A little background on the Aru-bay website.  According to the website it was started so that locals could share there videos about Aruba.

These two Tattoo videos were uploaded to the Aru-bay site on April 3, 2005.  I find them both very strange:

smallmovie5



smallmovie6

Klass, I beleive these two vids may be extremely revealing if you step outside the box.  The girls yes... but look who is watching the girls... one short man with a mustache stand out as do a couple of other men -- like players who move the room... watch the last 30 secs of the first vid -- appears one young man touches the girl and she does all she can to get away from him while the mustached guy seems to also appears in some of the sequences... Maybe just me -- this might be video proof of "scouting"...

just an observation ...fwiw

[Silverfox]

A little background on the Aru-bay website.  According to the website it was started so that locals could share there videos about Aruba.

These two Tattoo videos were uploaded to the Aru-bay site on April 3, 2005.  I find them both very strange:

smallmovie5



smallmovie6

Klass, I beleive these two vids may be extremely revealing if you step outside the box.  The girls yes... but look who is watching the girls... one short man with a mustache stand out as do a couple of other men -- like players who move the room... watch the last 30 secs of the first vid -- appears one young man touches the girl and she does all she can to get away from him while the mustached guy seems to also appears in some of the sequences... Maybe just me -- this might be video proof of "scouting"...

just an observation ...fwiw

In addition...

THINK EARRINGS!

In some of the pics I have seen taken of Natalee that night She was wearing some long silver-like earrings at least earlier ... Now look at these vids and note that the camera man likes to zoom in on the Earrings, right?

Could someone have bought earrings for these girls as a gift for them to wear aboard the tattoo where scouts would scout them out as on a selection tour?  Maybe this is a link...