Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08

[katrien]

The  latest theory of Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious.

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsense.

If Natalee’s mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalee’s mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slenderly towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic. 

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. What’s wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock. 

What insurance company could Beth recover costs from?  A policy the VDS may have?  The Dutch "personal liability" program I read about (I don't think they called it that exactly).

I think many will remember Joran mimicking Natalee's last moments/convulsions.  It is the stuff of nightmares. 

It was possible that there was a live insurance on Natalee's live. I do not know what's usual in America with those kind of things.
In Holland it is usual for people to do this on eachothers lives when they buy a house or something like that.

Does this mean that there was no live-insurance at all? Is this another lie or false suggestion from Renee Gielen?

[Rob]

The  latest theoryof Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious.

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsence.

If Natalee’s mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalee’s mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slendery  towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic. 

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. What’s wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock. 

Hi Katrien
I have covered this area. Natalee has NOT BEEN DECLARED DEAD.  There will be no policy pay out unless she is declared deceased. The normal period is 7 years. Steve Fosset was recently declared deceased BEFORE THE 7 YEAR PERIOD. That is the first time I have ever seen that happen. It would not happen for Natalee. There are many reasons. The first and foremost would be she does not have an estate to settle.

Any insurance Dave or Beth had on Natalee would be called a children's rider, which pays for a burial and it not usually more than 10 or 12 thousand dollars.

I have no knowledge of any type(s)of policies or riders the Holloways have for Natalee, but an individual policy would be rare for an 18 year old unless they were a child star or independently wealthy. In a case where the person aged 18 was independently wealthy there might be no need to insure that person.

Insurance is to indemnify the survivors - to make "whole" as if the person was still here, and all goes on as normal. Natalee had no children.

Beth and Dave need to be indemnified by the assailants.

[dennisintn]

The  latest theory of Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious.

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsense.

If Natalee’s mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalee’s mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slenderly towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic. 

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. What’s wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock. 

What insurance company could Beth recover costs from?  A policy the VDS may have?  The Dutch "personal liability" program I read about (I don't think they called it that exactly).

I think many will remember Joran mimicking Natalee's last moments/convulsions.  It is the stuff of nightmares. 

It was possible that there was a live insurance on Natalee's live. I do not know what's usual in America with those kind of things.
In Holland it is usual for people to do this on eachothers lives when they buy a house or something like that.

Does this mean that there was no live-insurance at all? Is this another lie or false suggestion from Renee Gielen?

every time gielen opens her mouth about this case, a lie comes out, or a total distortion of the truth that makes it a lie.  dave said early on there was a small policy on natalee he had taken out when she was a child.  it would have been enough for a funeral back then, but i doubt it would pay for one now.
dennisintn

[bleachedblack]

Klaas, sorry for OT but when you get a chance can you mark Lynn Doris May
as FOUND. TIA

[WhiskeyGirl]

IIRC, there was a small 'burial' policy on Natalee.  I believe KJ investigated the family finances at one point in time.

[Nut44x4]

Klaas, sorry for OT but when you get a chance can you mark Lynn Doris May
as FOUND. TIA

O/T one here too in unsolved crimes...
please mark remains found
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1010.msg371045#new

TY in Adv.

[Nut44x4]

The freaks at RU have been screaming 'insurance scheme'  for 3.5 years. The shit they have spewed about that would curdle milk.

[Tamikosmom]

If there was an life insurance policy taken out on Natalee Holloway's life ... so what!!  Dave Holloway was in the life insurance business.  The life insurance issue is nothing but a smokescreen created by Aruba and their internet trolls to take the focus off of Joran and Paulus' involvement in the events that encompass the morning that Natalee went missing.

Anyways ... IIRC Dave did state that there was a policy taken out on Natalee and Matt's life when they were very young.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

Dave Holloway
Bon Dia
September 20, 2005

<snipped?

On the matter of life insurance, Dave denies that he took out a life insurance of millions on his daughter. And he also discards the possibility that Natalee ran way from home, seeing all that Natalee herself was telling him and the plans that his daughter was telling him about that she wanted to accomplish before she started with the University.

<snipped>

Translation

http://www.bondia.com/

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/09/20/dave-holloway-i-cant-stand-behind-the-call-for-a-boycott-against-aruba/


Jug Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
September 28, 2005

TWITTY: No. She talked about the issues as far as Natalee, you know, having problems with her family with Beth and I or with her father, or whatever. Of course, all this stuff was talked about way early on in the investigation. She talked about $1 million life insurance policy on Natalee, which is just crazy. She talked about my brother being in the banking business, being in money laundering. And I mean, I just don’t know where this stuff’s coming from, Greta. It’s like she’s not even trying to find out the answers, she’s trying to find out everything, you know, that could be wrong, as far as our family goes. You know, it drives me crazy.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,170678,00.html

[bleachedblack]

The  latest theoryof Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious.

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsence.

If Natalee’s mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalee’s mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slendery  towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic. 

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. What’s wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock. 

Actually Natalee is not on the FBI Missing Person Investigations. She is listed in Seeking Information.
 
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/seek.htm

[bleachedblack]

GBMW

Thanks for the translation.  I'm sure it is time consuming translating and typing it all out.

I like Patrick.  Just not so sure of his background to explain the Dutch law...LOL...

Yes thank-you GBMW for the translation, it was a very interesting read.

[Destiny]

Do any of you think that Urine could turn up *missing* before he can be served with a court summons?  I do...I don't put anything past these whackos...in that event...whom would Beth sue?

[Destiny]

GBMW

Thanks for the translation.  I'm sure it is time consuming translating and typing it all out.

I like Patrick.  Just not so sure of his background to explain the Dutch law...LOL...

Yes thank-you GBMW for the translation, it was a very interesting read.

GBMW...Thanks from me too

[Lala'sMom]

Do any of you think that Urine could turn up *missing* before he can be served with a court summons?  I do...I don't put anything past these whackos...in that event...whom would Beth sue?

Joran is mentally incompetent to stand trial....what is wrong with you people?  The poor little thing has been traumatized beyond belief...having watched a girl die in his arms and then dragging her body into the bushes and then having to locate Daury in the midst of said trauma!  Surely, you don't think the sproter could endure a trial about a mother's grief and suffering after what he went through?  Have you no mercy?      (sarcasm included free of charge)

[Destiny]

Do any of you think that Urine could turn up *missing* before he can be served with a court summons?  I do...I don't put anything past these whackos...in that event...whom would Beth sue?

Joran is mentally incompetent to stand trial....what is wrong with you people?  The poor little thing has been traumatized beyond belief...having watched a girl die in his arms and then dragging her body into the bushes and then having to locate Daury in the midst of said trauma!  Surely, you don't think the sproter could endure a trial about a mother's grief and suffering after what he went through?  Have you no mercy?      (sarcasm included free of charge)
[/quote

Awwwww...poor baby...do you think I should bake him some cookies?  I have a great hemlock recipe...

[Lala'sMom]

Hemlock?   

[Destiny]

Hemlock?   

Suuuure....you've heard of them...oatmeal, raisen, hemlock cookies     Urines' FAV...

[Lala'sMom]

Hemlock?   

Suuuure....you've heard of them...oatmeal, raisen, hemlock cookies     Urines' FAV...

Maybe a few chokky chips too? LOL

[Magnolia]

The  latest theory of Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious.

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsense.

If Natalee’s mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalee’s mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slenderly towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic. 

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. What’s wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock. 

What insurance company could Beth recover costs from?  A policy the VDS may have?  The Dutch "personal liability" program I read about (I don't think they called it that exactly).

I think many will remember Joran mimicking Natalee's last moments/convulsions.  It is the stuff of nightmares. 

It was possible that there was a live insurance on Natalee's live. I do not know what's usual in America with those kind of things.
In Holland it is usual for people to do this on eachothers lives when they buy a house or something like that.

Does this mean that there was no live-insurance at all? Is this another lie or false suggestion from Renee Gielen?

In the American South, most families took out small burial policies
on themsleves and their children.  For the children usually about
$750.....not nearly enough to cover a funeral, but something.
It was just standard proceedure in nearly all families.
I have heard Dave say that the only insurance he had on Natalee
was a small burial policy.

[KarmaRoundUp]

I wonder if anyone has seen Rebecca on aruba lately?
:::::hehehe::::::

Executives will remain in custody
National Century group allegedly plotted to flee U.S.
Friday,  April 4, 2008 3:21 AM
By Jodi Andes

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
 
Donald H. Ayers
 
James E. Dierker Jr.
 
Roger S. Faulkenberry
 
Rebecca S. Parrett
 
Randolph H. SpeerFour executives convicted last month in the downfall of National Century Financial Enterprises will stay in jail, a federal judge decided yesterday.

Judge Algenon L. Marbley rejected efforts by attorneys for some of the defendants to discredit information from an informant that the executives had plotted to flee to Aruba if convicted.

"Make no mistake about it," Marbley said. "We don't have individuals who are presumed innocent. We have individuals who were found guilty. The (court's) presumption is in favor of detention."

Former National Century executives Donald H. Ayers, James E. Dierker Jr., Roger S. Faulkenberry, Rebecca S. Parrett and Randolph H. Speer were convicted March 13 of fraud connected to the company's collapse.

But defense attorneys Fred Benton and Leonard Yelsky argued yesterday that the story about leaving the country was a baseless spiel coming from a twice-convicted murderer looking to gain favor with the government.

The judge didn't entertain the debate on the informant long before issuing his order.

The five former National Century executives had been free on bond pending sentencing, despite assistant U.S. Attorney Doug Squires' recommendation against it. A hearing will be held April 16 to determine whether the bonds will be revoked permanently.

Defense attorneys had countered that their defendants should remain free -- an accommodation allowed in federal court if the felons are not a flight risk or danger to the community. At the time, the judge agreed.

But two things have changed since then, Marbley noted yesterday to a courtroom full of supporters for Dierker and Faulkenberry.

First, Parrett disappeared. She had been allowed to return to her home in Carefree, Ariz., but did not appear as ordered to be fitted with a tracking device. On March 27, a warrant was issued for her arrest.

Then, on Tuesday, FBI agent Kevin Horan learned of conversations that an informant had with former National Century President Lance K. Poulsen, who is in jail awaiting trial.

Poulsen allegedly told the informant that executives agreed long ago that if convicted, they would flee to Aruba, a Caribbean island off the coast of Venezuela.

"I cannot turn a blind eye to the fact that one of the defendants of the conspiracy has already fled, which gives some legitimacy to the theory," Marbley said.

Defense attorneys wanted the name of the informant, but were denied.

Yelsky said he had given the court 105 letters from Dierker's friends and family who were vouching for him, including executives from Victoria's Secret, where Dierker is a vice president of marketing.

Faulkenberry's wife, Jacqueline, said the informant's story was bogus. The first time her husband heard any mention of Aruba was after she told him about it yesterday afternoon, she said.

She learned of his arrest and claims of the conspiracy from news reports on the Internet, and later talked to him in the Franklin County jail, she said.

Ayers and Speer were arrested Wednesday at their homes in Florida and Georgia, respectively, and are expected to be brought back to Columbus in the next 10 days, Marbley said.

Parrett remains at large.

The former executives were convicted of fraud that led to investors losing $1.9 billion.

National Century was a health-care financing company that bought accounts receivable from doctors, clinics, nursing homes and small hospitals. The company used investor-backed funding to give the health-care providers money to pay for daily operations and kept a percentage of what was collected from the medical bills.

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2008/04/04/norelease.ART_ART_04-04-08_C10_8P9R2G7.html?sid=101

[caesu]

’Wilders offended everybody’

„ Geert Wilders not only offends Moslems with his anti-quran film Fitna, but all of us.” This says minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin today in a interview with this newspaper.

The minister of justice has this view not from himself, he confesses. It is of his wife. „It is a perfect summary of what I mean.”

In the interview Hirsch Ballin looks back at the debate concerning the film Fitna. Wilders called him in the House of Commons someone who lies and fools people. Those descriptions don't do much to Hirsch Ballin. „On the long run the facts will speak. More than anything.”

http://www.trouw.nl/hetnieuws/nederland/article958480.ece/Wilders_beledigt_ons_allemaal


justice Minister Hirsch Ballin

reminder:

*Wilders PVV was the only party who spoke out for Natalee
http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1435&Itemid=103
*PVV member Hero Brinkman is calling Aruba / Antilles a 'corrupt gangsters nest'
http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/article1952291.ece?nscategory=topStoryA

i personaly think this government is in its last throes.
different polls show 30% up to 60% or even more of the population think the government lied in last weeks debate.