Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08

[casa]

Hubby and I were just watching the coverage regarding this tornado on CNN.  It is unbelieveable that there were no fatalities.

Has anybody heard from Casa this morning?

Janet

++++++++++++


Tornado Rips Through Little Rock, Ark., Damaging Airport; Injuries Reported
Friday, April 04, 2008
Associated Press

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,346293,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,3707,00.html

http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=ddc0b7a5-9aa0-45c0-8fa5-102eae5db558

http://www.weatherinarkansas.com/hw3.php?config=&forecast=stormreports&alt=stormreportsus&config=&hour=24&region=AR

Thanks Janet for thinking about me!  I am fine and at work.  It is dark here and raining but no tornados!  Last nights storms went above me, but I have a friend in Little Rock and my "adopted son" is in college in Conway, AR.  I have talked to both of them and they are ok and have no damage.  It is such a blessing that no one was killed in this storms! 

[klaasend]

Casa - thanks for checking in!  Great news about your friends and "adopted son"!

[crazybabyborg]

Klaas? Check message, please?

[Rob]

Hi and Good Morning,

Hey, I have been thinking about Beth's civil suit and maybe I'm wrong, but I believe the suit is Beth only and not Dave. The suit is for "shockschade" - "emotional distress" caused by the Van Der Sloots and the Kalpoes. Those are the accused parties. No others will be accused in this instance. Corruption and other elements will have to wait their turn to be heard in a future suit or trial.

The suit is not for the loss of future income Natalee may have earned or the intentional / unintentional death of Natalee. This suit is aimed at the damaged caused to BETH due to the actions of the accused.

At this point, due to the known evidence a suit involving the other parameters will not be heard and could not proceed due to the lack of evidence establishing who did what and who did what after Natalee became deceased.

again, all just my opinion... maybe we'll know more shortly and the matter will be set straight.

[Peaches]

Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.

[Tamikosmom]

Janet - my guess is that if Peter and Patrick are summoned in this case it will be as witnesses for the prosecution. 

i think they should also subpoena steve croes, jan van straaten, karen janssen, and anyone else who was involved in the original lies and coverup.  all these people, and probably more, either helped voluntarily or were duped into helping keep natalee's fate and whereabouts a secret.
dennisintn

dennis

I agree 100%.   However ... I cannot comprehend why Deepak and Satish are not being served.

Also ... the gardener should be appear as a witness.  He identified Joran and Deepak in an Aruban court as sitting in Deepak vehicle across the street from the Marriot at 2:30 AM on the morning of May 30, 2005.

Then there is Freddy.  His witness statement that revealed what Joran had related to him regarding the events encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... who were present.

Then there are Jug and Beth's friends as well as Paulus' interrogator  who could testify regarding in regards to Paulus' changing stories that relate to the 4:00 MacDonald's pickup on the morning of May 30, 2005..

Janet

+++++++++++

Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 26, 2005

MANSUR: Because they were trying to hide their faces at that the hour, because we have to remember that the two Kalpoe brothers and Joran held on to the statement that they dropped Joran off at the beach and then went home. But here we have someone that says categorically that they did not go home, they were in the car with Joran. Joran was sitting in the driver`s seat.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/26/ng.01.html


Freddy Arambatzis
Witness Statement
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
June 12, 2005

<snipped>

The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that THE FOUR OF THEM drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that THEY had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this HE WAS DROPPED OFF AT HOME BY DEEPAK AND SATISH.
TranslationCredit: Rammstein


Lt. Roland Tromp - Interrogator
CBS NEWS
August 5, 2005

Tromp, who declined to provide details about exactly what investigators believe happened to Holloway, said that Paul van der Sloot has also changed his account the night Holloway vanished. "Why should you do that if you are telling the truth?" he said

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/05/world/main763210_page2.shtml

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/Aruba.Natalee.Holloway.2.256295.html


Superior Court Ruling
January, 2007
 
The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a taped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court). The taped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

[Tamikosmom]

Hubby and I were just watching the coverage regarding this tornado on CNN.  It is unbelieveable that there were no fatalities.

Has anybody heard from Casa this morning?

Janet

++++++++++++


Tornado Rips Through Little Rock, Ark., Damaging Airport; Injuries Reported
Friday, April 04, 2008
Associated Press

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,346293,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,3707,00.html

http://www.fox16.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=ddc0b7a5-9aa0-45c0-8fa5-102eae5db558

http://www.weatherinarkansas.com/hw3.php?config=&forecast=stormreports&alt=stormreportsus&config=&hour=24&region=AR

Thanks Janet for thinking about me!  I am fine and at work.  It is dark here and raining but no tornados!  Last nights storms went above me, but I have a friend in Little Rock and my "adopted son" is in college in Conway, AR.  I have talked to both of them and they are ok and have no damage.  It is such a blessing that no one was killed in this storms! 

Casa ... I am thankful all is well with you and your loved ones.  I can only imagine the terror of having to experience a tornado.

Janet

[crazybabyborg]

I'm glad you and yours are safe Casa!!!! Ive seen the coverage on the news, and that was a dangerous tornado!

Now, if I can just determine it's safe to be here with both Klaas and Tamik...........     

[Tamikosmom]

I'm glad you and yours are safe Casa!!!! Ive seen the coverage on the news, and that was a dangerous tornado!

Now, if I can just determine it's safe to be here with both Klaas and Tamik...........     

cbb ... just one little change and ... Ducky and I would be forever grateful ....

Never mind.

 

I hope you have a good day cbb.  In about a couple of hours ... I am taking off for a 45 minute drive to my daughter's community.  Lunch at her favorite Japanese restaurant is where it is at.  With the committments that are associated with raising four children (4-10) ... these lunch dates are few and far between.

Janet
9:30 AM

[Dayhiker]

Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.

Morning Peaches! I agree here. The lawsuit is about discovery that can open many doors. First off, it will probably damage Aruba more than the Van der Sloots because it will lay the corruption wide open. Joran's missing statements are fair game as he laid out the seizures in his confession. Jannsen, Van der Straten and Jacobs can be summoned to account for those statements. Corruption will be proven and out in the open!

As for the Van der Sloots, what else do they have to lose that they haven't already? Joran is already considered a rapist and murderer already wherever he goes. Paulus is overwhelming believed to be the one who orchestrated Natalee's disposal. Anita and Paulus are looked up as miserable failures as parents and citizens. Nevertheless, they can be dragged deeper than they already are and can lose money that they probably don't have.

All of Joran's lies will be laid bare for the world to see, and there are a buttload of them. I believe they can subpoena his legal bills as a matter of course, this is typical and could expose who has been paying Tacopina along with the Aruban and Dutch lawyers. This could even even more corruption if those bills have been paid by the Aruban government (ATA, AHATA) or known Mafia figures which Joe T. has been very well known to associate with.

The lawsuit will expose the corruption on Aruba (Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs primarily) further hurting their tourism, reinforce Joran as a rapist and killer, confirm Paulus' involvement, and further drag the Van der Sloots into their rightful place among the dregs of humanity. JMHO.

[caesu]

PM astonished by Fitna debate reactions

Friday 04 April 2008

Prime minister Jan Peter Balkenende said on Friday that he was astonished by the reactions to this week's parliamentary debate on Geert Wilders' anti-Koran film Fitna.

During Tuesday's debate, ministers made public cabinet documents which proved that Wilders had been planning to show pages being torn from the Koran in his film. The notes were made after meetings between ministers and Wilders last year.

But Wilders described the notes as rubbish and accused ministers of lying.

Speaking on the fringes of the Nato summit in Bucharest, Balkenende said he had never come across such a reaction to official documents during his years as prime minister. It was not a question of differing interpretation of the facts, he said. The notes are 'as clear as day'.

Justice minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin and home affairs minister Guusje ter Horst, who were also at the meeting, also denied Wilders' accusations. 'It is the facts that count,' said Hirsch Ballin. 'There is nothing untrue about my statement.'

A number of online polls show that many people believe Wilders rather than the ministers is telling the truth.

Furthermore, independent MP Rita Verdonk had got it 'quite wrong' when she accused him of weakening the right to freedom of expression in the Fitna affair, Balkenende said.

The cabinet had put nothing in the way of the film's release, he argued. 'We are pleased that we were so well prepared, but that has nothing to do with freedom of expression,' news agency ANP reported the prime minister as saying.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/04/pm_astonished_by_fitna_debate.php

this scandal seems to get larger every day.

[dennisintn]

O/T sortof - sound familiar?

http://www.outlookindia.com:80/pti_news.asp?id=559020

National
SCARLETT-NCW
Goan Police shielding some people involved Scarlett murder: NCW

New Delhi, Apr 2 (PTI) The National Commission for Women (NCW) today said there are major lapses in the probe into the murder of British teenager Scarlett Eden Keeling and the Goan Police was trying to shield some people involved in the incident.

Taking a suo moto cognisance of the case, a two-member team of the NCW headed by its member Nirmala Venkatesh went to Goa and investigated the matter.

"There is a total police failure in Goa. Police are trying to cover up the real issue. There could be drug cartel that may be operational. We have gathered that the police are trying to shield some people involved in the incident," Venkatesh told reporters here, adding that there are major lapses on the part of police in the investigation.

"Commission cannot say whether those involved are influential or not but there is something incorrect that is for sure," Venketesh said.

Regarding the lapses in the probe, she said the viscera of the victim was sent to a forensic laboratory after a substantial delay of 15 days.

"The commission believes that this was deliberate so that the semen could not be used for the test which was very vital in a rape case," she said.

Scarlett was allegedly drugged, raped and murdered on the Anjuna beach on February 18.

"We feel that there should be women security officials at the Goa airport. There should be posters and banners and enough publicity for the awareness of tourists," Venketesh added.

wow, sounds like briesen actually understated the case when he said aruba was now the model for investigations in crimes against tourists in the carib countries.   looks like he could have even included india in that statement.
dennisintn

[Tamikosmom]

PM astonished by Fitna debate reactions

Friday 04 April 2008

Prime minister Jan Peter Balkenende said on Friday that he was astonished by the reactions to this week's parliamentary debate on Geert Wilders' anti-Koran film Fitna.

During Tuesday's debate, ministers made public cabinet documents which proved that Wilders had been planning to show pages being torn from the Koran in his film. The notes were made after meetings between ministers and Wilders last year.

But Wilders described the notes as rubbish and accused ministers of lying.

Speaking on the fringes of the Nato summit in Bucharest, Balkenende said he had never come across such a reaction to official documents during his years as prime minister. It was not a question of differing interpretation of the facts, he said. The notes are 'as clear as day'.

Justice minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin and home affairs minister Guusje ter Horst, who were also at the meeting, also denied Wilders' accusations. 'It is the facts that count,' said Hirsch Ballin. 'There is nothing untrue about my statement.'

A number of online polls show that many people believe Wilders rather than the ministers is telling the truth.

Furthermore, independent MP Rita Verdonk had got it 'quite wrong' when she accused him of weakening the right to freedom of expression in the Fitna affair, Balkenende said.

The cabinet had put nothing in the way of the film's release, he argued. 'We are pleased that we were so well prepared, but that has nothing to do with freedom of expression,' news agency ANP reported the prime minister as saying.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/04/pm_astonished_by_fitna_debate.php

this scandal seems to get larger every day.

Apparently ... freedom of speech is questioned is debated in a democratically elected parliament if Islam is undermind.  However ... freedom of speech is a unchallenged right afforded Islam to degrade everything that is sacred to American right on their own soil.

The double standard is either nothing but politically correct appeasement or ... it is fear of an ideology that will react with violence rather than dialogue.

The democracies of the free world are being held hostage to this ideology with a global agenda and ... ultimately the realization that the price of appeasement is giving more strength to the enemy.

Janet

++++++++++++

U.S. Based Revolution Muslim Website Spreading Messages of Hate
Wednesday, March 26, 2008

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341811,00.html

[Lala'sMom]

Pardon the interruption...but does anyone know how to find a list of all the street names in Aruba?  I would really like to have a list, please. TIA

[klaasend]

Pardon the interruption...but does anyone know how to find a list of all the street names in Aruba?  I would really like to have a list, please. TIA

Lala's I've never found one online.  Capslock may be your best resource.  There may be something he can scan and send to you?

[Lala'sMom]

Pardon the interruption...but does anyone know how to find a list of all the street names in Aruba?  I would really like to have a list, please. TIA

Lala's I've never found one online.  Capslock may be your best resource.  There may be something he can scan and send to you?

Why do you think I am asking?? LOL  Check your email...cox.net please!

[Buckeye]

Few areas on this map.  Click on little pics to enlarge.

http://www.caribbean-on-line.com/islands/ar/arm.shtml

Best bet (with directory) is to buy this one:

http://www.caribmart.com/arubamapbybb.html

[Buckeye]

Interesting post at RU:

K_Meine  PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:02 pm         

Accounts from someone who was actually there
So I run into a person I've known for some time today but I hadn't seen in a while. I look at his T-shirt and in big letters amongst a pictorial of an island chain is the word "ARUBA". Of course being interested in this case I said "it's too bad about that girl Natalee Holloway". He says he was on the island for 8 days. 4 before and 4 after she disappeared. I asked him what his experience was there and there were three comments that stuck in my head. First, she disappeared on Monday AM, but it wasn't made public via newspaper until Wednesday PM. Why? he purports it was a cover up of some sort. Secondly, the word on the street was that basically everyone thought it was Joran Van Der Sloot and that Natalee's body was dumped in the water at the California light house. He said there were sharks on that side of the island and that the cliffs and water was deep and treacherous in that area and it would be difficult to find anything there. Lastly, Paulus was stated to have said something in the way of "if the body isn't found, there can be no case"(this is not verbatim). Is that fatherly or legal advice?

You take it as you will, but to hear a first hand account versus media garbage is a bit more authentic to me. Joran isn't in hiding for no reason you know. Remember what Mr. T said to Rocky? He was right.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Good morning.

I think the suit is all about DISCOVERY.......

Not about monetary reward or damages.  Not about making a criminal case. 

It's about obtaining testimony under oath that will leave no doubt as to who is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.

IIRC, didn't JVDS say somewhere that he wanted a trial?  Something to help put all this behind him?

Is Beth the only plaintiff in this case? 

Has the case been filed? 

I'm wondering who the defendants are, as compared to who is on the witness list.

Would business interests in Aruba be likely to file a similar case against the defendants for damage to the island's tourist reputation?

Are the judges that hear civil cases in Holland a separate legal specialty?  Or, would someone who hears criminal cases possibly be assigned?  Do judges hear a mix of civil and criminal cases?

Could testimony under oath be used in a criminal case?  If one witness is no witness in a criminal case, what if you find another witness while someone is under oath?

[WhiskeyGirl]

I wonder where the finger will be pointing when JVDS is under oath?  The Kalpoes?  I'd like to know what questions they are planning to ask.