Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08

[klaasend]

I would just like to THANK our DUTCH posters for all the links and translations they share with us from the NL.  You guys have been great!

[Tamikosmom]

Could one of our Dutch Monkeys please provided a translation of this article.

Thank you.

Janet

++++++++++++++++


http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1435&Itemid=103

Pinguïnpak - Weblog       
vrijdag 08 februari 2008
 
Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek. Samen met fractiegenoot Barry Madlener vroeg Raymond de Roon deze week ook de veiligheid in de trein te bevorderen. Het openbaar vervoer hoort veel veiliger te zijn dan nu vaak het geval is. Mijn collega Fleur Agema stelde deze week voor om vrouwen die een abortus ondergaan deze voortaan in beginsel zelf te laten betalen. Vandaag komt het kabinet mogelijk met een voorstel om de boerka te verbieden op scholen, in het openbaar vervoer en voor ambtenaren. Dat voorstel is veel en veel te slap. De boerka levert een ongewenst veiligheidsrisico op. De boerka is ook een symbool van vrouwenonderdrukking en daarom onverenigbaar met de democratische rechtsstaat. Ook belemmert de boerka de emancipatie van vrouwen, en in een pinguïnpak kun je niet integreren. Daarom moet de boerka helemaal uit het straatbeeld verdwijnen. Mijn collega Sietse Fritsma en ik hebben daartoe vorig jaar al een wetsvoorstel ingediend. Een goed weekend. Tot volgende week vrijdag.

[katrien]

IIRC, there was a small 'burial' policy on Natalee.  I believe KJ investigated the family finances at one point in time.

In Holland most parents have "burial" policies on their children. So what is Renee Gielens problem?

[katrien]

The  latest theory of Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious.

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsense.

If Natalee’s mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalee’s mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slenderly towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic. 

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. What’s wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock. 

Actually Natalee is not on the FBI Missing Person Investigations. She is listed in Seeking Information.
 
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/seek.htm

Thanks for the link.

I knew about another link, but probably Natalee was on that list before.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/holloway.htm

[GBMW]

GBMW

Thanks for the translation.  I'm sure it is time consuming translating and typing it all out.

I like Patrick.  Just not so sure of his background to explain the Dutch law...LOL...

Yes thank-you GBMW for the translation, it was a very interesting read.

GBMW...Thanks from me too

You're all VERY welcome! It was done in a hurry so when I read it later on I saw some mistakes but I hope that will be forgiven It's not really necessary but is there a way I can edit the post a bit?

[GBMW]

Could one of our Dutch Monkeys please provided a translation of this article.

Thank you.

Janet

++++++++++++++++


http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1435&Itemid=103

Pinguïnpak - Weblog       
vrijdag 08 februari 2008
 
Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek. Samen met fractiegenoot Barry Madlener vroeg Raymond de Roon deze week ook de veiligheid in de trein te bevorderen. Het openbaar vervoer hoort veel veiliger te zijn dan nu vaak het geval is. Mijn collega Fleur Agema stelde deze week voor om vrouwen die een abortus ondergaan deze voortaan in beginsel zelf te laten betalen. Vandaag komt het kabinet mogelijk met een voorstel om de boerka te verbieden op scholen, in het openbaar vervoer en voor ambtenaren. Dat voorstel is veel en veel te slap. De boerka levert een ongewenst veiligheidsrisico op. De boerka is ook een symbool van vrouwenonderdrukking en daarom onverenigbaar met de democratische rechtsstaat. Ook belemmert de boerka de emancipatie van vrouwen, en in een pinguïnpak kun je niet integreren. Daarom moet de boerka helemaal uit het straatbeeld verdwijnen. Mijn collega Sietse Fritsma en ik hebben daartoe vorig jaar al een wetsvoorstel ingediend. Een goed weekend. Tot volgende week vrijdag.

I've translated the quote with a reference to the case:

Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek.

This week my colleage Raymond Boon requested an urgent (not the right translation...it's a kind of debat that isn't scheduled) debat because of the dramatic developments surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The request was rejected by the other parties. Everybody in the Netherlands is talking about it but the political side stays silent. Another example of the huge gap between the people and the Hague politics.

[Tamikosmom]

Could one of our Dutch Monkeys please provided a translation of this article.

Thank you.

Janet

++++++++++++++++


http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1435&Itemid=103

Pinguïnpak - Weblog       
vrijdag 08 februari 2008
 
Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek. Samen met fractiegenoot Barry Madlener vroeg Raymond de Roon deze week ook de veiligheid in de trein te bevorderen. Het openbaar vervoer hoort veel veiliger te zijn dan nu vaak het geval is. Mijn collega Fleur Agema stelde deze week voor om vrouwen die een abortus ondergaan deze voortaan in beginsel zelf te laten betalen. Vandaag komt het kabinet mogelijk met een voorstel om de boerka te verbieden op scholen, in het openbaar vervoer en voor ambtenaren. Dat voorstel is veel en veel te slap. De boerka levert een ongewenst veiligheidsrisico op. De boerka is ook een symbool van vrouwenonderdrukking en daarom onverenigbaar met de democratische rechtsstaat. Ook belemmert de boerka de emancipatie van vrouwen, en in een pinguïnpak kun je niet integreren. Daarom moet de boerka helemaal uit het straatbeeld verdwijnen. Mijn collega Sietse Fritsma en ik hebben daartoe vorig jaar al een wetsvoorstel ingediend. Een goed weekend. Tot volgende week vrijdag.

I've translated the quote with a reference to the case:

Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek.

This week my colleage Raymond Boon requested an urgent (not the right translation...it's a kind of debat that isn't scheduled) debat because of the dramatic developments surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The request was rejected by the other parties. Everybody in the Netherlands is talking about it but the political side stays silent. Another example of the huge gap between the people and the Hague politics.

Thank you very much GBMW.

Janet

[GBMW]

You guys have been great!

Right back at ya!

[texasmom]

I would just like to THANK our DUTCH posters for all the links and translations they share with us from the NL.  You guys have been great!

  I agree!  Thanks Dutch Monkeys!!

[jackb]

Still getting ready to leave the house...was surfing a little...don't know if this has been posted...interesting link to an small elite group of property owners in Aruba...

http://surfsidevillas.com/index.php?board=3.0

exerpt from site:

Aruba Racquet Club is now proudly offering its latest master community, Surfside Villas, clustered around Aruba's 8-court Racquet Club site, Aruba's Southwestern coast.

 This new and exiting residential area is just two miles away from Tierra del Sol, an 18-hole course designed by golfing legend Robert Trent Jones. One of Aruba’s most popular beaches, Fishermen Huts, home of the Aruba Hi-Winds Pro-Am Windsurf Competition is
within a short walking distance from Surfside Villas.
The island’s most fabulous high-rise resorts, their glittering casinos, showrooms and gourmet restaurants lie beckoning just outside Surfside Villas gate.

The development enjoys a truly unique location. The existing Aruba Racquet Club, established into the heart of the residence. By the time it is completely remodeled Aruba Racquet Club will offer besides the 8-court tennis area, a practice area, a beautiful landscaped swimming pool, modern club house, convenient parking, a cocktail lounge, restaurants, professional basketball, volleyball, squash court, and even a court for petanque, better known as “bollas� in the Caribbean. The facility will also encompass a fitness club, an activity area and a cleverly laid-out children’s playground.
Home-owners at Surfside Villas will naturally have access to all facilities for reduced prices, for as often and as long as they wish. (A small maintenance fee will be posted at the end of each month to help with the upkeep of all public spaces.)

Surfside Villas consists of 35 plots of land ranging in size from 500 to 900 square meters and easily accessible via a paved road.

On the developer’s drawing board you’ll find out different, beautifully designed Caribbean Villas, conceived by well-known architect, Orlando Hoevertsz, a contributor to the Radisson Aruba Caribbean Resort project. Each architectural drawing will be accompanied by a detailed list of features. Additionally, Surfside Villas guarantees that the area will be exclusively dedicated to family home, protecting the beauty and integrity of the site.

At Surfside Villas, great attention has been placed to detail. The plants in your front yard will be fully grown by the time your family moves in. Natural materials have been selected for construction such as; brick stones and decorative wrought iron. The exterior of the homes will display rustic plaster, in attractive earthy tones. Comfort, luxury and exquisite taste combined here to offer you an opportunity of a lifetime, a high quality living at an affordable price.

Your signature, on a provisional purchase agreement and a 10% down payment is all it takes to make your dream of owning a charming Caribbean Villa, true. The agreement will stipulate the rest of the purchase information.

Thank You Destiny....I am collecting as much info as I can on the Racquet Club...this is a good one!

most of this was owned by louis manseur.  he sold off some 1500 (units of time shares)  See Aruba News Help Desk.  I saw it on there.  It may be way over that.  That is just what I could remember, but seems like he owned way more than that.  He owned about 90 percent of the time shares, etc. on that island.  Good Luck.  PS:  I am at my temp. destination.  Will be on here with this drated hot-azzed lap top.   jackb

[Dayhiker]

It was possible that there was a live insurance on Natalee's live. I do not know what's usual in America with those kind of things.
In Holland it is usual for people to do this on eachothers lives when they buy a house or something like that.

Does this mean that there was no live-insurance at all? Is this another lie or false suggestion from Renee Gielen?

every time gielen opens her mouth about this case, a lie comes out, or a total distortion of the truth that makes it a lie.  dave said early on there was a small policy on natalee he had taken out when she was a child.  it would have been enough for a funeral back then, but i doubt it would pay for one now.
dennisintn

You nailed it Dennis. This is nothing but a rehash of the AHATA/Renfro/Dompig bullshit that was floated 2 years ago and resurfaces every time their last rehash gets debunked.

These assholes don't have an original bone in their body so have to upchuck the same old crap every now and then to try to keep the focus off of Joran.

Gelien can't get any traction on anything she floats. She is a joke to the Prosecutors, obviously, they didn't even have time to mess with her.

[Dayhiker]

The  latest theory of Renee Gielen  is that the mother of Natalee is going to claim (or claimed already) money from the insurance company for Natalee.  This is supposed to be very suspicious.

I thought Natalee was on the missing list of the FBI? What is wrong with Renee Gielen to write things like this? In the past she also wrote evident nonsense.

If Natalee’s mother is able to claim money from the insurance company for Natalee,  it is obvious that she is going to do so. She propably needs the money for all the trips, lawyers, stays in hotels, the plain for Natalee, etc. etc. All these costs are made because Joran and his father were fooling her around.
People from the village were Natalee was living, collected money to cover part of  the costs Natalee’s mother had to make.

It looks like a slander champagne against the mother of Natalee, Natalee, her father, her stepfather, her stepbrother, they all were mentioned in the champagne against Beth. They are also a bit slenderly towards Peter R and Patrick.
Some journalists call Patrick a betrayer. Pathetic. 

Patrick did a bit detective work. Detectives in Holland are not allowed to do those kind of things. Patrick did not force Joran to say anything. What’s wrong with the interview? We all can see the tape and listen to what Joran is telling all by himself,  and after all the lies he told in the past.

There are also posters  claiming that Peter R and Patrick are to be blamed by causing the shock. 

What insurance company could Beth recover costs from?  A policy the VDS may have?  The Dutch "personal liability" program I read about (I don't think they called it that exactly).

I think many will remember Joran mimicking Natalee's last moments/convulsions.  It is the stuff of nightmares. 

It was possible that there was a live insurance on Natalee's live. I do not know what's usual in America with those kind of things.
In Holland it is usual for people to do this on eachothers lives when they buy a house or something like that.

Does this mean that there was no live-insurance at all? Is this another lie or false suggestion from Renee Gielen?

every time gielen opens her mouth about this case, a lie comes out, or a total distortion of the truth that makes it a lie.  dave said early on there was a small policy on natalee he had taken out when she was a child.  it would have been enough for a funeral back then, but i doubt it would pay for one now.
dennisintn

[Dayhiker]

Sorry that last post got messed up Klaas and San. please delete it. Thanks!

[Dayhiker]

You guys have been great!

Right back at ya!

You folks are great GBMW and have added a new dimension to the forum. Thanks!

[Dayhiker]

I've translated the quote with a reference to the case:

Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek.

This week my colleage Raymond Boon requested an urgent (not the right translation...it's a kind of debat that isn't scheduled) debat because of the dramatic developments surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The request was rejected by the other parties. Everybody in the Netherlands is talking about it but the political side stays silent. Another example of the huge gap between the people and the Hague politics.

GMBW, is the a blogger or public figure that is accusing the politicians of ignoring the Natalee Holloway case?

[Dayhiker]

IIRC, there was a small 'burial' policy on Natalee.  I believe KJ investigated the family finances at one point in time.

In Holland most parents have "burial" policies on their children. So what is Renee Gielens problem?

Geilen is hired to put up smokescreens. Is she so stupid think the Aruban government hasn't looked into this 2 1/2 years ago? They would have loved to have been able to pin Natalee's disappearance on an insurance scam just like they did Max DeVries. Only problem is it didn't fly, they couldn't prove it because no such scam ever existed.

Gelien must be dumb as dirt to think this has never been investigated.

[Kat_Gram]

Hello, Just doing a post 'n run. Let you all know I am still here.
I do read every day. Like to see where the lawsuit is going to go and what the scope of it is for questions being answered. Go Beth Go. 
'Bye, I have to run

[caesu]

I've translated the quote with a reference to the case:

Deze week vroeg mijn fractiegenoot Raymond de Roon om een spoeddebat naar aanleiding van de opzienbarende ontwikkelingen rond de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway. Het verzoek werd door de andere partijen afgewezen. Heel Nederland praat erover, maar de Tweede Kamer zwijgt. Weer een schoolvoorbeeld van de enorme kloof tussen de burgers en de Haagse politiek.

This week my colleage Raymond Boon requested an urgent (not the right translation...it's a kind of debat that isn't scheduled) debat because of the dramatic developments surrounding the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The request was rejected by the other parties. Everybody in the Netherlands is talking about it but the political side stays silent. Another example of the huge gap between the people and the Hague politics.

GMBW, is the a blogger or public figure that is accusing the politicians of ignoring the Natalee Holloway case?

Geert Wilders wrote that.

Geert Wilders (born 6 September 1963) is a Dutch politician. He has been a member of the Dutch Parliament since 1998, first for the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy and from 2006 on the Party for Freedom, a party which he founded and of which he is the political leader.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders

[caesu]

Goodmorning!

Hereby the translation of a new blog on Patricks site....I had to do it quickly so there might be a few mistakes in it but it it's always a bit better than the google translation



The summonses of Bram Moszkowicz mother Holloway Case

I wrote him a few days ago whether he had any news for my blog, so I can tell my thousands of readers. I didn't hear anything from him, but now I understand that Mr. Bram must have been busy with the summonses. The process that Beth wants to start in civil court is now really going to begin.

Personally, I haven't recieved the subpoena yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Of course I am more than happy to help Beth. She has suffered so much.

It is still not clear what is going to happen with Joran concerning a criminal case. But this process to  demand shockdamage could already give some satisfaction. In the Netherlands the amounts are much smaller than in the United States. Eventually in the case of O.J. Simpson about $ 8.5 million was awarded. In the Netherlands those kind of amounts are unusual. It would quite something if a Dutch court would award Beth € 100,000 is she wins. Perhaps in this case, for the first time, there will be a higher amount. The life of Natalees' parents have been disrupted for years already.

Under Dutch law it's not that simple with shockdamages, mainly when it concerns victims of accidents. Our highest court awarded in 2002 the right to damages for the first time. A mother got € 13,000 when she got a psychological injury after seeing her dead  daughter at the crime scene.

The case of Joran is obviously something different. But this gives you one example of how low the damages always turn out. Our right is actually only the material damage compensation, such as cost of living when the person that makes the money in a household died. The death of a child, no matter how hard that may sound, is worth little in Dutch law. Usually it is not more than the funeral expenses plus a little extra. It gives us a bit of an idea. The commercialisation of grief, dispicable legal practices in a claimculture. So if the Dutch government rarely accepts schockdamages that will also have an effect in these kind of cases.

The lawyers of  Beth will probably go for the so-called onrechtmatige daad (unlawful act??? sorry don't know the translation!). This is an article in our Civil Code. It is positive for Beth that such a process means they have to testify under oath & anything can be asked and that they have no right to silence, like a criminal. Joran has frequently made use of that right to remain silent and kept his mouth shut. That's not an option anymore. His parents will be heard under oath as well. That could have a major impact. Suppose, for example, that they know a lot more about the case or that Joran is helped by his father. If his father would lie during this process and that were to come out during a possible criminal case then he has committed perjury. On perjury there is an imprisonment of six years and / or a fine of € 18,500. This applies also for all the other family members who would consult perjury, including Joran course.

It is difficult to prove an unlawful act for the judge. There is a lot to it. For example, the act has to be attributed to Joran or his relatives. It must be proven that the act is due to the debt or to a cause that was created by the acts or omissions of Joran and / or his parents. It was very stupid of Joran to say on Pauw & Witteman that he was only telling me a story. Something you obviously don't do when the feelings / hurt of parents are at stake.

The Kalpoe brothers were also summoned. Although in all my conversations with Joran it seemed like they have nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee, Beth's lawyer of course wants to know why they gave Joran a false alibi.

Joran has put himself under treatment in a psychiatric institution. He is getting therapy for people who are stuck in everyday life and suffer from behavioural and psychiatric problems. According to some people he might have done this to avoid this process. As long as Joran is treated, his lawyer would be able to say that he is not in a position to answer. Meanwhile, of course, the case can start with the questioning of other witnesses. Normally these kinds of lawsuits take longer than a year.

I will keep you well informed about this case here. Personally, I will be heard as a witness in this process on a completely voluntarily basis. 

very good informative article by Patrick!

[jackb]

IIRC, there was a small 'burial' policy on Natalee.  I believe KJ investigated the family finances at one point in time.

   Most children are automatically addeded on even before birth.  It is an automatic thing when spouses buy insurance.  Usually ranges from 5000 to 25000 at no extra charge.
They are totally ignorant to even suggest this.   jack b