Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4 - 4/11/08

[Buckeye]

Haven't translated yet:

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/

Just references the above post. Nothing new.

[klaasend]

Haven't translated yet:

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/

The only part pertaining to Natalee is this part and it's just pointing towards the article that Katrien posted:

Zondag 6 april: nieuws over Natalee & Victor & het A1-drama
 

Update 9.30 uur:

Henk Strootman meldt op zijn weblog dat er mogelijk een doorbraakje is bij het zoeken naar de helper van Joran: de politie schijnt 'Daury' op het spoor te zijn. Staat hier

The sketch of the man doesn't have anything to do with the NH case 

[Buckeye]

Haven't translated yet:

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/

The only part pertaining to Natalee is this part and it's just pointing towards the article that Katrien posted:

Zondag 6 april: nieuws over Natalee & Victor & het A1-drama
 

Update 9.30 uur:

Henk Strootman meldt op zijn weblog dat er mogelijk een doorbraakje is bij het zoeken naar de helper van Joran: de politie schijnt 'Daury' op het spoor te zijn. Staat hier

The sketch of the man doesn't have anything to do with the NH case 

I tried to say that in the next post.  Maybe you could delete it??  Good morning....haven't noticed MF up yet   

[klaasend]

Haven't translated yet:

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/

The only part pertaining to Natalee is this part and it's just pointing towards the article that Katrien posted:

Zondag 6 april: nieuws over Natalee & Victor & het A1-drama
 

Update 9.30 uur:

Henk Strootman meldt op zijn weblog dat er mogelijk een doorbraakje is bij het zoeken naar de helper van Joran: de politie schijnt 'Daury' op het spoor te zijn. Staat hier

The sketch of the man doesn't have anything to do with the NH case 

I tried to say that in the next post.  Maybe you could delete it??  Good morning....haven't noticed MF up yet   

I'm not awake enough to delete posts, LOL 

[sharon]

I'm not awake enough to delete posts, LOL 

 

klaas

This is really early for you

(thanks!! )

[klaasend]

I'm not awake enough to delete posts, LOL 

 

klaas

This is really early for you

(thanks!! )

Way early, lol 

[GBMW]

Goodmorning!

Patrick put a translation of his latest blog on his website.....

Civil suit against Joran starts

Holland’s most famous lawyer Bram Moszkowicz has been preparing the civil suit agsinst Joran van der Sloot and possibly his parents. The lawyer works for Beth. Some websites reported on Friday that subpoena’s were sent to Joran, his parents, the crime reporter Peter R. de Vries and myself. Also the Kalpoe brothers have been called to testify, because the lawyer wants to figure out why they gave Joran a false alibi.

I have not received my subpoena yet, but expect to pick the doc from the doormat on Monday or Tuesday. Of course I will be there for Beth, who has suffered hard and long under this case.

Under Dutch law judges are traditionally very strict with damages for pain and suffering to relatives of victims of crimes and accidents . The lawmaker has always been afraid for a culture of ambulance chasers and the commercialization of grief. While in the civil suit against O.J. Simpson damages like $ 8.5 million were ruled, it would be out of the ordinary if a Dutch judge awards more than € 100.000 ($ 160.000). Perhaps this case will set a new trend. The life of Natalee’s parents has been derailed for years already.

Usually judges tend to focus only on material damages, like lost wages of breadwinners and funeral expenses. Especially the value of a child in this kind of legal culture in terms of dollars is low. In 2002 the Supreme Court of Holland agreed to immaterial damages in the first case ever, to a mother who had to witness the dead body of her daughter under the wheels of a truck, for a pittance of € 13.000. Of course the circumstances in this case are totally different, but it sets a trend.

The good news of this civil suit is that Joran and his parents will not have the right to remain silent anymore or can rely on what in the US is known as the Fifth Amendment. They have to answer the questions of the lawyer and the judge and will be heard under oath. This can have nasty consequences for them. Assume for instance that Joran’s father knows far more than he has told until now or even helped him. When he would lie during this civil suit and this surfaces in a possible later criminal suit (even when he tells the truth there), perjury can be established. Perjury carries a maximum penalty in Holland of 6 years and/or a fine of € 18,500. The same sentence can be handed out to all other family members who testify under oath and lie, including Joran.

Some people therefore speculate that this might be the reason that Joran has been admitted in a psychiatric institute. There he receives therapy for people who hit rock bottom in their lives and need treatment for behavioral and psychiatric problems. As long as Joran is under the care of these psychiatrists, his lawyer can claim that he is able to answers questions. Meanwhile the civil suit can of course just start with hearing the other witnesses. Usually these civil suits last for more than one year.

I will keep you informed in my blog about all the developments in this case. Of course I will go myself, completely voluntarily, to be heard as a witness in this court case.

[sharon]

Thanks GBWM!

I appreciate waking up to latest NH news fromthe NL. This is where the 'action' will be for awhile.

 

[sharon]

Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES
Justice for Natalee

[GBMW]

Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES
Justice for Natalee

I agree...but what kind of a person would think that under these circumstances? And really...how much money does he have anyway? But then again....I heard he's a good pokerplayer

[Dayhiker]

This was confirmed to me by Diario days ago...Basterd in hiding!!!

Thanks Janet....I love board games too    Have you ever played Othello...the game with black and white stones?...big fun!

You bet Destiny! His lawyer Bert as much as tells us the real reason he is in there. He doesn't want to testify! Those Van der Sloots sure know how to work the system don't they?

[Rob]

This was confirmed to me by Diario days ago...Basterd in hiding!!!

Thanks Janet....I love board games too    Have you ever played Othello...the game with black and white stones?...big fun!

You bet Destiny! His lawyer Bert as much as tells us the real reason he is in there. He doesn't want to testify! Those Van der Sloots sure know how to work the system don't they?

Good Morning Dayhiker and All...
while the jackass and his father play games with the legal system, the father continues to possess a law license and practice criminal law..

repugnant!!!

[Dayhiker]

Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES
Justice for Natalee

I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!

[Dayhiker]

This was confirmed to me by Diario days ago...Basterd in hiding!!!

Thanks Janet....I love board games too    Have you ever played Othello...the game with black and white stones?...big fun!

You bet Destiny! His lawyer Bert as much as tells us the real reason he is in there. He doesn't want to testify! Those Van der Sloots sure know how to work the system don't they?

Good Morning Dayhiker and All...
while the jackass and his father play games with the legal system, the father continues to possess a law license and practice criminal law..

repugnant!!!

Good morning Bruddah! And Paulus is still working for the Aruban government on committees!!!

[Dayhiker]

THANK YOU GMBW AND KATRIEN! Very interesting news about the possible boat driver, Katrien. Is this a reliable source? TIA.

[Buckeye]

I could be wrong, but I think the civil case is not a wrongful death case.  I'm not sure there is even such a thing in the Netherlands.

I think the case is for shock value.  Joran knew what was on the tape before it was broadcast.  He didn't try to stop the broadcast (like Guido did with the book).  He is therefore responsible for the "shock" the broadcast created.

I would love broad disclosure, but I'm not so sure that will happen.

Why didn't Joran file an injunction regarding the broadcast?  Didn't want to have to present the case in front of a judge? He must have been more worried his reasoning for not broadcasting than letting the tape be broadcasted....hmmmmm...

[sharon]

I agree Sharon. It ain't about the money, it's about the Discovery. Just a short list I'd like to see:

1- Joran's statements through June 9th. (If they're not missing.)

1B- If they are missing I'd like to see Jannsen, Straten and Jacobs subpoened and asked why?

1C- Follow-up on ALE questioning Beth and Dave about seizures.

2- Kalpoes statements versus Joran's statements on the security guards. Jannsen said Joran's was irrevelent.

3- All cell phone and internet correspondence of Joran, Paulus, Kalpoes, Croes, Lorenzo and Gottenbos.

4- All communications records between Paulus and Van der Straten plus the judges.

5- Any bank transactions by Paulus immediately following the disappearance.

6- All police records pertaining to the arrest of the guards.

7- Testimony from Jannsen and Van der Straten pertaining to the arrest of the guards and non-arrest of the perps.

8- All of Joran's legal bills and who has paid for them.


FEEL FREE TO ADD!

Morning Dayhiker 

+ ask vander straaten about his interesting quotes (paraphrased) "I know about the investigation and you don't" "if I told you about the dogs it would give an indication of the direction of the case"

+ ask Staanley why he felt that the body of Natalee was found but not reported as a 'favor' to Paulus

+ who in the heck was in holland and who was in Aruba the night Natalee was taken by aliens 

+ did paulus really go to miami while his son was in prison (or the days leading up to it) and if so, why

+ what size are Joran' s feet? 


And the list goes on..........the list goes on.........

[sharon]

Also meant to add -- IMO, this was never and will never be about money.

It's all about 'discovery'

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT....IT DOES
Justice for Natalee

I agree...but what kind of a person would think that under these circumstances? And really...how much money does he have anyway? But then again....I heard he's a good pokerplayer

GBMW -- thinking about this (highlighted in red) depresses me immensely.

I'm a baby boomer who came to her rights of passage in the 70's  And I've said since the early early days of this story that I would not judge a single family member (and RH makes that value difficult) until the truth is known as I would never want to walk an inch in their flip flops (I live in Miami  )

When I look back at the early days of June '05 -- and the intentional lies and deceptions and misniformation campaigns that were propagated (and financially supported) by a government and tourism industry, I get sick to my stomach that such creatures live on my earth.

And the fact that several apparently US traitors (no - they cannot be considered ex-pats) lead that bandwagon just turns up the disgust.

I have had to STOP thinking about what makes these creatures 'tick' because it defies the logic of mankind. And supports the logic of pyschopaths. And makes me cry.

Can you tell that I don't visit the sites visited by the 'dark side' ? 


Boycott Aruba
Justice for Natalee

[katrien]

THANK YOU GMBW AND KATRIEN! Very interesting news about the possible boat driver, Katrien. Is this a reliable source? TIA.

Misdaadverslaggever Henk Strootman (45) behoort tot de oudgedienden van Actueel Sportief. Als ex-politieman was hij al bekend met het criminele milieu, de fijne kneepjes echter van het verslaggevervak leerde hij van Peter R. de Vries. Op zijn weblog zal hij ingaan op de laatste nieuwtjes, verslag doen van zijn belevenissen en een inkijkje geven in de duistere wereld van moord en doodslag.

Rough translation:

Crime reporter Henk Strootman (45) is belonging to the old campaigners of Aktueel sport. As an ex-police officer he knows the circuit. He  learned reporting skills from Peter R. de Vries. On his weblog he will report the latest news, tell about his experiences and gives glimpses into the dark world of crime.

That all I can find about him.  In the Dutch case (I was telling about earlier) he is one of the few reporters who told from the start the police work was very well done. I can only fully agree with him.

I have the impresson he is a reliable source. 

[klaasend]

Posted at BFN regarding the post at Patrick's site:

On Patrick's website (www.patrickvandereem.nl) you can read that Friday announcements were made that the subpoena against Joran and his parents. The Kalpoe brothers have also been called to testify. Peter R. de Vries and Patrick will be called as witnesses by the Dutch lawyers of Beth.