Natalee Case Discussion #747 4/11 - 4/17/08

[caesu]

One minute the Aruba airport authority is exclaiming huge profits from an increase in tourism yet they have had a strike going on for well over a month now (causing extreme inconveniences to their tourists) and can't give their employees a cost of living raise. What is it, is Aruba rolling in dough or strapped for cash?

that was for the year 2007. but the 1st and 2nd quarter of 2008 is different i think.
i think the aruban government has to make some though decisions now.

1.
ask The Netherlands for loans to pay higher salaries and the interests on those loans from that.
The Netherlands won't give loans without pre-conditions like cleaning op justice department, corruption and conflicts of interests. that could open pandora's box with all the cover-ups.
earlier loans are already a tense issue. more will have stricter pre-conditions without a doubt.
but Oduber blame it on outside factors while he begs for money.

or

2.
don't give in to the strikers and risk tourism industry coming to a standstill and civil unrest if strikers presist.
as a result of that eventually they have to ask for loans anyway to sort out the budget.
those loans will still include pre-conditions: see above.

Oduber is gambling on the strikers presistence.
now he is starting a smear campaign. blaming economy failures on the strikers.
the public is sensitive to that.
that's why he brought up that e-mail from American Airlines.
if the public opinion turns more against the strikers they will lower their demands and Oduber has won for the moment.

From the looks of it Caesu these strikers look like they are just getting madder'n madder. Didn't you say that Holland will be cutting off their money supply in 2009? Maybe they are forcing them into the same situation Bonnaire is in, basically receivership so they can control their spending habits. Ya think?

yes, that's what is was thinking yesterday. i posted that somewhere too.

if dutch MP's or the media talk about The Antilles and say that the islands are corrupt and cost so much dutch tax money, Rudy Croes always says: "but from 2009 we won't get loans - subsidy anymore, Aruba is different from the other islands".

so that's why Aruba really doesn't want to beg for money from the dutch anymore.
because then the dutch can include pre-conditions to the loans. obvious what kind of pre-conditions.
all about statute article 43. sound governance, justice, rule of law.

i am really wondering how this will turn out. Aruba is not involved with the restructering of The Antilles.
but the last few media reports from the dutch oppostion but also government are including now Aruba as well.
if Aruba's economy was booming they could go there own way without having to worry about dutch interference.
but if they have to beg for money the dutch will interfere in return.
Oduber (and Croes) want to prevent this interference at all costs.
because they know this might lead to the ditch being exposed.

i know the ditch will get exposed eventually.
don't know how this is going to happen and through how much more suffering the Aruban government so many people is going to take.

the finances of Bonaire are now indeed in effect taken over by the dutch.
because Bonaire couldn't get their budget in order.
also the dutch transport minister is now taking action to renovate Bonaire Airport.
officially this is not a task for the dutch transport minister but for The Antilles transport minister of course.
http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/politiek/car20080417_flamingo-TK
this is because Bonaire will become a dutch special town 15 december 2008.

[Tamikosmom]

Here ya go Destiny 

Steve Cohen (858/571-5151; scohen@kusi.com)

TY...will keep you Monkeys posted...

 

[Tamikosmom]

I was gone for a bit and I'm not sure if this has already been posted:

http://www.thedailyherald.com:80/news/daily/k280/edit280.html

Don’t kill the goose

Events in Aruba should be closely monitored in St. Maarten. The public sector unions there have been on strike for two weeks to demand salary indexation, and there is no end in sight.

Government says it simply cannot give in to the unions’ demands because it does not have the finances and doing so would be irresponsible. The courts have upheld the right of the protesters to strike, even for workers of emergency services such as the Fire Department. The teachers also are on strike and most students have not had classes for all this time, with all possible consequences.

Without going into details on who is wrong or right, there is one aspect that is of particular interest to St. Maarten: The unions first marched to the airport and hampered travellers from leaving and going in, and then the airport fire fighters went on strike, which meant the airport could not guarantee safety on at least one occasion and several flights were diverted elsewhere.

The effect of that for tourism destinations such as Aruba, but also St. Maarten, can be far-reaching, of course. Having just recuperated from the fallout from Natalee Holloway’s disappearance, Aruba can ill afford the current situation and possible consequences for its reputation.

Now American Airlines is threatening to cancel all its weekend flights if an adequate number of fire fighters at the airport cannot be guaranteed, because it fears more actions. The airline calls the situation on the island “unstable.” While the right to strike is an internationally recognised principle, one would have to question the wisdom of focussing the actions on the airport to the point where flights are affected. When that happens, it has the effect of endangering the tourism economy.

In the coming weeks and months people in St. Maarten are going to start feeling the pinch of higher prices caused by skyrocketing fuel prices and transport cost. While it may be tempting for local unions to seek salary increases to compensate their members, they should resist such temptation, because it will merely lead to even higher prices and make the island too expensive for visitors as well.

Considering also the real estate and financial crisis in the US, by far St. Maarten’s biggest tourism market, it appears there are tough times ahead. The community as a whole will have to carry the consequences together and in any case not take action that could amount to killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

It ain't over until it's over and ... it ain't over.

 

Janet

++++++++++


Quote from: private eye on April 07, 2008, 01:34:33 AM
hello janet and *******. i have had the pleasure of my youngest daughter so I have been distracted but I have tried to keep up. it is quiet now, but I haven't heard the fat lady sing yet, and I apologize beth for that phrase, but slim as you are, you are the fat lady in this production. i don't know what, but i would bet my life that beth is working on some big publicity event for aruba that will spotlight their true colors. so have faith, and stay tune))) i am wore out from waiting on my grown independent child and am going to be. I thought about having an emancipation party for my daughter as I don't think she realizes she is grown and independent now. or somebody told her the age of emancipation was 30 and not 21, or 18:) but i love it:)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg371692#msg371692

[San]

Hi Janet:

My posts were declined at Patrick's blog as well as he is picking and choosing what he wants  He can accept the facts or ignore them to fit his agenda,I don't really care....He was pretty argumentative and badly misinformed so I won't waste much time on his blog if he is ignoring me. No correspondence from my emails that I sent either, but thats OK as I was just trying to educate him from what we all know..Like transcripts and interviews of the facts.

Patrick is not naive ... he is not uninformed on the issues ... he claims to have read Beth's LOVING NATALEE or Dave's CORRUPTION IN PARADISE.  There is no way that he has not  kept up to some extent with media coverage of this case.

I believe that Patrick is furthering the Aruban agenda ... if Joran is made the sacrificial lamb with limited consequences ... Beth will be "at peace" and will back off ... the boycott will come to an end ... the Natalee Holloway case will become a distant memory and ... Aruba will once again become the "Happy Island".

Patrick van der Eem need to realize that the case is not solved until Paulus ... the Kalpoes ... the pimps ... those in the Aruban/Dutch administration who were aware of/involved in the cover ... the judiciary ... are held accountable for their roles that have denied an American citizen justice.

The video recording of Joran's "confession" does not negate all the witness and suspect statements that claim he did not act alone.

Janet

+++++++++++

PATRICK VANDER EEM

OPEN LETTER TO ALL WHO RECEIVED THIS EMAIL
I am not going into any claims of possible corruption in Aruba from the moment Natalee disappeared because I do not have the knowledge, nor the evidence, that there has been any official government corruption in this case. God knows if the father of Joran has used personal contacts to try to influence the outcome of the case when he was a judge in training. If so, than I would not call it official corruption, but the act of a man who is not even Aruban. I believe that many people who want to follow this kind or requests do also not have first hand information about true facts of corruption, but as followers just base their opinion on the suggestion and speculation of others.


April 16th, 2008 at 12:38 am
Anyhow, I do know that Hans Mos from the moment Peter R. de Vries has been showing him the tapes has been working incredibly hard to get the evidence on the table that Joran did not only dispose of a body (carries a maximum jail sentence of 6 months in Holland), but to find the evidence that Joran can be accused of “murder” or “manslaughter” because it became clear from huis confession that he never checked if Natalee was really dead.

I agree Janet.  I have believed this from the very beginning.

Everything is staged.  Even when Joran threw the wine in De Vries' face it was planned by Joran.

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Janet:

My posts were declined at Patrick's blog as well as he is picking and choosing what he wants  He can accept the facts or ignore them to fit his agenda,I don't really care....He was pretty argumentative and badly misinformed so I won't waste much time on his blog if he is ignoring me. No correspondence from my emails that I sent either, but thats OK as I was just trying to educate him from what we all know..Like transcripts and interviews of the facts.

Patrick is not naive ... he is not uninformed on the issues ... he claims to have read Beth's LOVING NATALEE or Dave's CORRUPTION IN PARADISE.  There is no way that he has not  kept up to some extent with media coverage of this case.

I believe that Patrick is furthering the Aruban agenda ... if Joran is made the sacrificial lamb with limited consequences ... Beth will be "at peace" and will back off ... the boycott will come to an end ... the Natalee Holloway case will become a distant memory and ... Aruba will once again become the "Happy Island".

Patrick van der Eem need to realize that the case is not solved until Paulus ... the Kalpoes ... the pimps ... those in the Aruban/Dutch administration who were aware of/involved in the cover ... the judiciary ... are held accountable for their roles that have denied an American citizen justice.

The video recording of Joran's "confession" does not negate all the witness and suspect statements that claim he did not act alone.

Janet

+++++++++++

PATRICK VANDER EEM

OPEN LETTER TO ALL WHO RECEIVED THIS EMAIL
I am not going into any claims of possible corruption in Aruba from the moment Natalee disappeared because I do not have the knowledge, nor the evidence, that there has been any official government corruption in this case. God knows if the father of Joran has used personal contacts to try to influence the outcome of the case when he was a judge in training. If so, than I would not call it official corruption, but the act of a man who is not even Aruban. I believe that many people who want to follow this kind or requests do also not have first hand information about true facts of corruption, but as followers just base their opinion on the suggestion and speculation of others.


April 16th, 2008 at 12:38 am
Anyhow, I do know that Hans Mos from the moment Peter R. de Vries has been showing him the tapes has been working incredibly hard to get the evidence on the table that Joran did not only dispose of a body (carries a maximum jail sentence of 6 months in Holland), but to find the evidence that Joran can be accused of “murder” or “manslaughter” because it became clear from huis confession that he never checked if Natalee was really dead.

I agree Janet.  I have believed this from the very beginning.

Everything is staged.  Even when Joran threw the wine in De Vries' face it was planned by Joran.

I am suspicious about that incident too.

Hi San ... how's it going friend.

Janet

[caesu]

I was gone for a bit and I'm not sure if this has already been posted:

http://www.thedailyherald.com:80/news/daily/k280/edit280.html

Don’t kill the goose

Events in Aruba should be closely monitored in St. Maarten. The public sector unions there have been on strike for two weeks to demand salary indexation, and there is no end in sight.

Government says it simply cannot give in to the unions’ demands because it does not have the finances and doing so would be irresponsible. The courts have upheld the right of the protesters to strike, even for workers of emergency services such as the Fire Department. The teachers also are on strike and most students have not had classes for all this time, with all possible consequences.

Without going into details on who is wrong or right, there is one aspect that is of particular interest to St. Maarten: The unions first marched to the airport and hampered travellers from leaving and going in, and then the airport fire fighters went on strike, which meant the airport could not guarantee safety on at least one occasion and several flights were diverted elsewhere.

The effect of that for tourism destinations such as Aruba, but also St. Maarten, can be far-reaching, of course. Having just recuperated from the fallout from Natalee Holloway’s disappearance, Aruba can ill afford the current situation and possible consequences for its reputation.

Now American Airlines is threatening to cancel all its weekend flights if an adequate number of fire fighters at the airport cannot be guaranteed, because it fears more actions. The airline calls the situation on the island “unstable.” While the right to strike is an internationally recognised principle, one would have to question the wisdom of focussing the actions on the airport to the point where flights are affected. When that happens, it has the effect of endangering the tourism economy.

In the coming weeks and months people in St. Maarten are going to start feeling the pinch of higher prices caused by skyrocketing fuel prices and transport cost. While it may be tempting for local unions to seek salary increases to compensate their members, they should resist such temptation, because it will merely lead to even higher prices and make the island too expensive for visitors as well.

Considering also the real estate and financial crisis in the US, by far St. Maarten’s biggest tourism market, it appears there are tough times ahead. The community as a whole will have to carry the consequences together and in any case not take action that could amount to killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

It ain't over until it's over and ... it ain't over.

 

Janet

++++++++++


Quote from: private eye on April 07, 2008, 01:34:33 AM
hello janet and *******. i have had the pleasure of my youngest daughter so I have been distracted but I have tried to keep up. it is quiet now, but I haven't heard the fat lady sing yet, and I apologize beth for that phrase, but slim as you are, you are the fat lady in this production. i don't know what, but i would bet my life that beth is working on some big publicity event for aruba that will spotlight their true colors. so have faith, and stay tune))) i am wore out from waiting on my grown independent child and am going to be. I thought about having an emancipation party for my daughter as I don't think she realizes she is grown and independent now. or somebody told her the age of emancipation was 30 and not 21, or 18:) but i love it:)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg371692#msg371692

i know it is not nice these skyrocketing fuel costs and also food costs and the financial crisis and weak dollar.
i hope none of you are affected.
europe isn't affected much yet but our finance minister Wouter Bos just a few days ago did a 180 degree turn around from optimistic to pessimistic.

but for holiday islands like Aruba and also St. Maarten this is combined the worse thing that can happen.
Aruba has no other real source of income (apart from the money laundering and other illegal business).
but maybe this financial crisis / oil prices is a blessing in disguise to get the Aruban government on its knees and the ditch finally exposed. in the long run that would get Aruba in better shape.
just how deep are they willing to let the island sink.

[San]

I will be the first to say that I did not watch the taped video of Joran in the car.  From what I have seen I noticed that Joran never looks up.  He looks out the window and it looks like he is in a trance.  I believe he does that to make sure he does not look at the camera in the car.  When I am in the car with someone and I'm always in the front seat I look all over the place even when I am talking.  I look at the roof, glove compartment, dash board, touch the radio, etc.

Did you ever tell someone well don't look but something is happening and you tend to either look down or the opposite way almost like you are in a trance listening but making sure you don't look in the direction of where you were told not to look.  I just can't explain it but I feel Joran knew he was taped and this was all staged and I felt that way from day one.

JMO.

[Dayhiker]

From the looks of it Caesu these strikers look like they are just getting madder'n madder. Didn't you say that Holland will be cutting off their money supply in 2009? Maybe they are forcing them into the same situation Bonnaire is in, basically receivership so they can control their spending habits. Ya think?

yes, that's what is was thinking yesterday. i posted that somewhere too.

if dutch MP's or the media talk about The Antilles and say that the islands are corrupt and cost so much dutch tax money, Rudy Croes always says: "but from 2009 we won't get loans - subsidy anymore, Aruba is different from the other islands".

so that's why Aruba really doesn't want to beg for money from the dutch anymore.
because then the dutch can include pre-conditions to the loans. obvious what kind of pre-conditions.
all about statute article 43. sound governance, justice, rule of law.

i am really wondering how this will turn out. Aruba is not involved with the restructering of The Antilles.
but the last few media reports from the dutch oppostion but also government are including now Aruba as well.
if Aruba's economy was booming they could go there own way without having to worry about dutch interference.
but if they have to beg for money the dutch will interfere in return.
Oduber (and Croes) want to prevent this interference at all costs.
because they know this might lead to the ditch being exposed.

i know the ditch will get exposed eventually.
don't know how this is going to happen and through how much more suffering the Aruban government so many people is going to take.

the finances of Bonaire are now indeed in effect taken over by the dutch.
because Bonaire couldn't get their budget in order.
also the dutch transport minister is now taking action to renovate Bonaire Airport.
officially this is not a task for the dutch transport minister but for The Antilles transport minister of course.
http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/politiek/car20080417_flamingo-TK
this is because Bonaire will become a dutch special town 15 december 2008.

It started with diverting flights to Curacao which no doubt pissed a bunch of vacationers off. If they cancel flights people are going to go elsewhere. Life's too short to have your precious vacation (and we Americans don't take that many) time screwed up by a bunch of people who can't get their shit together.

[Observer]

I agree Janet.  I have believed this from the very beginning.

Everything is staged.  Even when Joran threw the wine in De Vries' face it was planned by Joran.

I am suspicious about that incident too.

Hi San ... how's it going friend.

Janet

I am with you ladies!

It was a very poor attempt and after all that time he spent with Joran...What was revealed?

I want to know how peaches is doing!!!!!!!!!I don't know her like many of you do..But I can't stop thinking about her

[Destiny]

I was gone for a bit and I'm not sure if this has already been posted:

http://www.thedailyherald.com:80/news/daily/k280/edit280.html

Don’t kill the goose

Events in Aruba should be closely monitored in St. Maarten. The public sector unions there have been on strike for two weeks to demand salary indexation, and there is no end in sight.

Government says it simply cannot give in to the unions’ demands because it does not have the finances and doing so would be irresponsible. The courts have upheld the right of the protesters to strike, even for workers of emergency services such as the Fire Department. The teachers also are on strike and most students have not had classes for all this time, with all possible consequences.

Without going into details on who is wrong or right, there is one aspect that is of particular interest to St. Maarten: The unions first marched to the airport and hampered travellers from leaving and going in, and then the airport fire fighters went on strike, which meant the airport could not guarantee safety on at least one occasion and several flights were diverted elsewhere.

The effect of that for tourism destinations such as Aruba, but also St. Maarten, can be far-reaching, of course. Having just recuperated from the fallout from Natalee Holloway’s disappearance, Aruba can ill afford the current situation and possible consequences for its reputation.

Now American Airlines is threatening to cancel all its weekend flights if an adequate number of fire fighters at the airport cannot be guaranteed, because it fears more actions. The airline calls the situation on the island “unstable.” While the right to strike is an internationally recognised principle, one would have to question the wisdom of focussing the actions on the airport to the point where flights are affected. When that happens, it has the effect of endangering the tourism economy.

In the coming weeks and months people in St. Maarten are going to start feeling the pinch of higher prices caused by skyrocketing fuel prices and transport cost. While it may be tempting for local unions to seek salary increases to compensate their members, they should resist such temptation, because it will merely lead to even higher prices and make the island too expensive for visitors as well.

Considering also the real estate and financial crisis in the US, by far St. Maarten’s biggest tourism market, it appears there are tough times ahead. The community as a whole will have to carry the consequences together and in any case not take action that could amount to killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

It ain't over until it's over and ... it ain't over.

 

Janet

++++++++++


Quote from: private eye on April 07, 2008, 01:34:33 AM
hello janet and *******. i have had the pleasure of my youngest daughter so I have been distracted but I have tried to keep up. it is quiet now, but I haven't heard the fat lady sing yet, and I apologize beth for that phrase, but slim as you are, you are the fat lady in this production. i don't know what, but i would bet my life that beth is working on some big publicity event for aruba that will spotlight their true colors. so have faith, and stay tune))) i am wore out from waiting on my grown independent child and am going to be. I thought about having an emancipation party for my daughter as I don't think she realizes she is grown and independent now. or somebody told her the age of emancipation was 30 and not 21, or 18:) but i love it:)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg371692#msg371692

i know it is not nice these skyrocketing fuel costs and also food costs and the financial crisis and weak dollar.
i hope none of you are affected.
europe isn't affected much yet but our finance minister Wouter Bos just a few days ago did a 180 degree turn around from optimistic to pessimistic.

but for holiday islands like Aruba and also St. Maarten this is combined the worse thing that can happen.
Aruba has no other real source of income (apart from the money laundering and other illegal business).
but maybe this financial crisis / oil prices is a blessing in disguise to get the Aruban government on its knees and the ditch finally exposed. in the long run that would get Aruba in better shape.
just how deep are they willing to let the island sink.

Caesu....BRAVO!!!

[Dayhiker]

i know it is not nice these skyrocketing fuel costs and also food costs and the financial crisis and weak dollar.
i hope none of you are affected.
europe isn't affected much yet but our finance minister Wouter Bos just a few days ago did a 180 degree turn around from optimistic to pessimistic.

but for holiday islands like Aruba and also St. Maarten this is combined the worse thing that can happen.
Aruba has no other real source of income (apart from the money laundering and other illegal business).
but maybe this financial crisis / oil prices is a blessing in disguise to get the Aruban government on its knees and the ditch finally exposed. in the long run that would get Aruba in better shape.
just how deep are they willing to let the island sink.

We boycotters figured out a long time ago the only way to get Aruba to do anything is cut off their money supply.

 

[Observer]

You got the right Caesu!! I was reading earlier..Oddly enough,that it was Michael Posner that was instrumental in getting United Airlines to come to Aruba..

In todays news.. United Airlines raises fuel surcharge $10 to $20 roundtrip

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20080417/ap_tr_ge/travel_brief_airlines_fares

Aruba Today- October 24th 2005

Michael Posner Contributes

Michael Posner contributes to Aruba's success. Palm Beach- Aruba continues to develop and expand as a popular travel destination ith the help of everyone in the industry. Over the past fifteen years Aruba has jumped onto the travel map as one of the top Caribbean destinations fpr vacations, events and business travel. There are a few people who in the last 10 years have added tremendously to Aruba's product with great success. American businessman Michael Posner saw an opportunity in the mid 90's to purchase the Holiday Inn Casino, although it was run down and on the brink of bankruptcy. Posner stepped in when the Holiday Inn Casino was in terrible condition with only 33 employees. He made a substantial investment into Aruba's product by renovating this deteriorating casino. Today the Excelsior Casino has over 140 employees, with all management positions filled by Arubans, and pays millions of dollars in taxes each year. Mr. Posner procured Aruba as the site for the World Poker Tournament for the past 4 years and many years into the future. This has created 20-30 million USD for the economy of Aruba and 5 million yearly in free advertising for Aruba's tourist industry. Posner also purchased and renovated the old Stauffer Hotel, which was considered at the time to be an eyesore to Palm Beach. He transformed the neglected hotel into the Brickell Bay Beach Club and today has over 100 employees, with all management level employment dedicated to Arubans. He recently delivered a genuine act of kindness by donating all the rooms for the Texas EquuSearch team to search for Natalee Holloway, at a cost of over 100,000. Posner has been a generous supporter of many charities in Aruba, even going so far as to send a sick Aruban child to Disney World with his mother as part of the "Make a wish Foundation". Aruba also thanks Posner for opening doors to potential new guest by making travel easier. He was directly responsible for bringing United Airlines to Aruba. Untied Airlines provides Aruba with 40,000 tourists and 300,000 hotel rooms annually. Posner received no payment for his services and was awarded the distinction of "Aruba's Goodwill Ambassador". Posner's contributions to Aruba's economy have been significant and greatly appreciated by the people. Besides all of humanitarian acts of kindness, he is also greatly appreciated for taking the reigns of failing businesses where no one else would and developing them into successful entities.

[Dayhiker]

I agree Janet.  I have believed this from the very beginning.

Everything is staged.  Even when Joran threw the wine in De Vries' face it was planned by Joran.

I am suspicious about that incident too.

Hi San ... how's it going friend.

Janet

I am with you ladies!

It was a very poor attempt and after all that time he spent with Joran...What was revealed?

I want to know how peaches is doing!!!!!!!!!I don't know her like many of you do..But I can't stop thinking about her

Hey, when you can't arrest and charge somebody who admits on tape to committing at the very least voluntary manslaughter something very fishy is going on.

There is a reason he is still walking around free as a bird and that's because somebody high enough in the government wants it that way, and I'm not talking about the Aruban government.

[San]

Hi Janet:

My posts were declined at Patrick's blog as well as he is picking and choosing what he wants  He can accept the facts or ignore them to fit his agenda,I don't really care....He was pretty argumentative and badly misinformed so I won't waste much time on his blog if he is ignoring me. No correspondence from my emails that I sent either, but thats OK as I was just trying to educate him from what we all know..Like transcripts and interviews of the facts.

Patrick is not naive ... he is not uninformed on the issues ... he claims to have read Beth's LOVING NATALEE or Dave's CORRUPTION IN PARADISE.  There is no way that he has not  kept up to some extent with media coverage of this case.

I believe that Patrick is furthering the Aruban agenda ... if Joran is made the sacrificial lamb with limited consequences ... Beth will be "at peace" and will back off ... the boycott will come to an end ... the Natalee Holloway case will become a distant memory and ... Aruba will once again become the "Happy Island".

Patrick van der Eem need to realize that the case is not solved until Paulus ... the Kalpoes ... the pimps ... those in the Aruban/Dutch administration who were aware of/involved in the cover ... the judiciary ... are held accountable for their roles that have denied an American citizen justice.

The video recording of Joran's "confession" does not negate all the witness and suspect statements that claim he did not act alone.

Janet

+++++++++++

PATRICK VANDER EEM

OPEN LETTER TO ALL WHO RECEIVED THIS EMAIL
I am not going into any claims of possible corruption in Aruba from the moment Natalee disappeared because I do not have the knowledge, nor the evidence, that there has been any official government corruption in this case. God knows if the father of Joran has used personal contacts to try to influence the outcome of the case when he was a judge in training. If so, than I would not call it official corruption, but the act of a man who is not even Aruban. I believe that many people who want to follow this kind or requests do also not have first hand information about true facts of corruption, but as followers just base their opinion on the suggestion and speculation of others.


April 16th, 2008 at 12:38 am
Anyhow, I do know that Hans Mos from the moment Peter R. de Vries has been showing him the tapes has been working incredibly hard to get the evidence on the table that Joran did not only dispose of a body (carries a maximum jail sentence of 6 months in Holland), but to find the evidence that Joran can be accused of “murder” or “manslaughter” because it became clear from huis confession that he never checked if Natalee was really dead.

I agree Janet.  I have believed this from the very beginning.

Everything is staged.  Even when Joran threw the wine in De Vries' face it was planned by Joran.

I am suspicious about that incident too.

Hi San ... how's it going friend.

Janet

I am well Janet.

You express exactly how I feel but you say it so much better 

[Dayhiker]

What a can of worms. 

Yes indeed...a big can of worms...the Stike will *NOT* end....these people have everything...they have invested their whole lives in...at stake in Aruba....they will not go gently into that dark night...

I don't think they are going to back down either, Destiny. They are being roobed. What have they got to lose by staying the course?

[Tamikosmom]

I will be the first to say that I did not watch the taped video of Joran in the car.  From what I have seen I noticed that Joran never looks up.  He looks out the window and it looks like he is in a trance.  I believe he does that to make sure he does not look at the camera in the car.  When I am in the car with someone and I'm always in the front seat I look all over the place even when I am talking.  I look at the roof, glove compartment, dash board, touch the radio, etc.

Did you ever tell someone well don't look but something is happening and you tend to either look down or the opposite way almost like you are in a trance listening but making sure you don't look in the direction of where you were told not to look.  I just can't explain it but I feel Joran knew he was taped and this was all staged and I felt that way from day one.

JMO.

Me too San.

When I read the first rough transcript of this telephone  interview with Joran one day prior to the airing of the video recording ... I knew that something was not right.

Considering that Joran van der Sloot just found out he was caught on tape .... why is he not outraged ... why is he upholding Patrick van der Eem and Peter Devries.

Also ... Joran foretells that he will not be touched by authorities ... his lies will be verified ... his lies will save him.

Something is not right ... especially when you consider Joran's anger issues.

He is not even upset over the empending airing of the video recording. 

Janet

++++++++++++++


Joran Van der Sloot
Pauw & Witteman
(Phone Interview/Grandma's house)
February 4, 2008

Question: How did this all happen, with this so called confession.

Joran: Yes, I did say something to someone I should not have said, it's a story to someone I have know for a while.

Question: How long have you known him?

Joran: about 6 months.

Question:  What did you tell him:

Joran:  Yes, well everyone will see it this Sunday, ha ha ha , but I can easily proof that what I said is not true, it's a whole lot about nothing, and it's kinda sad that they brought the mother over here and that they told her, but we'll see it all.

Question: Is it now not right to say right now what you said, and why it is that what you said is not true.

Joran: I talked to my parents and my lawyer and they told me how it is, and they said also , just don't say anything.

Question: The news said tonight that it's about the news that after you made out with Natalee that you , that she got sick, and became lifeless, and that you called a friend and he came with a boat and that you went on the boat with her and that you threw her in the water , you glide her in the water.

Joran, Yes, that's what I said.

Question: Is that not very dumb of you to say that?

Joran: Yes it is very dumb, but what I'm trying to say is that I have build up a relationship with someone for 6 months, and yes, that person, it's very difficult to explain, but that person did very brave (?), and I told him what he wanted to hear.

Question: How did you know what he wanted to hear?

Joran: Well I had my suspicion a little bit, because he talked to other friends of mine, I did not have a super good feeling towards him,

Question: but then, Joran it is unbelievable dumb to just say this, if it's not true.

Joran: It's so dumb, it's so dumb, it's so dumb, it's really dumb.

Question: Do you think you will be arrested again?

JJoran:  No, I don't think so. Maybe it could be, they have arrested me before for less than this, but I have been tricked.

Question: Have you talked more to this friend who got this story from you?

Joran: I just had a conversation with him, for about 20 minutes.

Question: and did you (uitgekafferd) **** (lol) on him?

Joran: No, I still talk with him normal.

Question: But he betrayed you, or not?

Joran: Yes, but he does not want to talk, he says, what is coming is coming on sunday.

Question: but we've heard that he received money from peter van de vries, to get a confession from you.

Joran: Yes, I don't know, I think he has more than enough money himself, but, we'll see.

Question: what kind of boy is he?

Joran: You see, I don't know what they are going to show this sunday, but this is a boy, he's an older man, I met him, and we've met a lot, I found him to be fascinating, I was very interested in him, and I, ha ha ha, just told him what he wanted to hear,

Question: but how did you not know then that he was not honest, that you told him just what he wanted to hear?

Joran: Yes well, he did a lot of thing you should not do, things that I would never do myself, some of these things he did do,

Question: example?

Joran: I don't want to give an example, I don't want to talk someone down, but it now shows that he used me. (loose translation)

Question: yes with a hidden microphone and a hidden camera, you never noticed that, it would seem.

Joran: These days these things are so little, but it's just been unbelievable dumb, really really, not normal dumb, and I hope that will become more peaceful because it seems that all hell is breaking loose.

Question: Have you had contact with the boy that might have moved the body of Natalee?

Joran: Yes, no, that's just a boy I met on Aruba, just now, when I was there,

Question: Did you speak to him?

Joran: But now I just met him.

Question: Does the police have contact with this boy now?

Joran: Yes, well I don't know, I don't know it all. I have talked to my parents and my lawyer, and I just don't know what's happening now. I don't know what the OM is thinking. I think they are going to investigate it all, and it will show that it is not that way.

Question: you have contact with your dad, does your dad have contact with the OM?

Joran: I don't know, I think he had a conversation with Mr. Mos, but it's only about security.

Question: Oh so it was not about an new investigation?

Joran: No

Question: Because, Mr Mos has said, this is the missing part, your confession.

Joran: Yes, it's very (vervelend) nasty but what I said was not true, and they can found out if it's true or not.

Question: So you did not go with Natalee in a boat into the water and put her in the water?

Joran: No of course not.

Question: That did not happen for sure?

Joran: No,

Question: And how can we find out that that is not true, as you say?

Joran: Yes, I don't know, it has to do with that person, that after two and a half years with that person, that's not possible.  (Joran talks in half sentences here) No, I, it's just been very stupid.

Question: do you blame de Vries?

Joran : NO, he does his job, I think that sunday night will bring very good tv night , but it's too bad that with this there are a lot of feelings for a lot of people involved here, and they will be hurt, and that's not a good tv program, but that's the way it is.

Question: Joran, but now for all the people that are now thinking, Joran vd Sloot has lied from the beginning , and we talked around this table with Peter de Vries, and now it seems like again he lied again to someone else, why should we believe Joran vd Sloot?

Joran: Yes, I ask myself the same thing, there is no reason to believe me.

Question: are you going to watch sunday evening?

Joran: I think I will watch sunday evening, I

Question: will you consider to come to our program the next day to give your reaction?

Joran: I don't know, I think for myself I don't want to react, I'm pretty sober about it, but we'll see.

We'll call on monday again.
Thank you very much.

Translation - Marco@RU

++++++++++++

Joran Van der Sloot
Pauw & Witteman
(Phone Interview/Grandma's house)
February 4, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu0QWaD27y

[Observer]

Utterly ridiculous!! It was already reported in Amigoe and other papers there was a trusted friend (Confidant or Infiltrator)that was secretly recording Joran in Holland in November 2005. Amigoe newspaper said that Justice had planted this Infiltrator!! What are the odds that another trusted friend was secretly taping Joran in Holland at the same time as Patrick?

Of course they declined that Info to be posted on Patrick's website today! 

[San]

I will be the first to say that I did not watch the taped video of Joran in the car.  From what I have seen I noticed that Joran never looks up.  He looks out the window and it looks like he is in a trance.  I believe he does that to make sure he does not look at the camera in the car.  When I am in the car with someone and I'm always in the front seat I look all over the place even when I am talking.  I look at the roof, glove compartment, dash board, touch the radio, etc.

Did you ever tell someone well don't look but something is happening and you tend to either look down or the opposite way almost like you are in a trance listening but making sure you don't look in the direction of where you were told not to look.  I just can't explain it but I feel Joran knew he was taped and this was all staged and I felt that way from day one.

JMO.

Me too San.

When I read the first rough transcript of this telephone  interview with Joran one day prior to the airing of the video recording ... I knew that something was not right.

Considering that Joran van der Sloot just found out he was caught on tape .... why is he not outraged ... why is he upholding Patrick van der Eem and Peter Devries.

Also ... Joran foretells that he will not be touched by authorities ... his lies will be verified ... his lies will save him.

Something is not right ... especially when you consider Joran's anger issues.

He is not even upset over the empending airing of the video recording. 

Janet

++++++++++++++

Exactly.

I believe the first thing I heard about this guy Patrick was that Joran was fascinated by him.  Give me a break the only person Joran is facinated by is himself.  Then you look at Patrick and I said to myself this is a bunch of bullshit and I ain't falling for this crap.

[Tamikosmom]

I want to know how peaches is doing!!!!!!!!!I don't know her like many of you do..But I can't stop thinking about her

Me too *******.

Her hubby and daughter are most likely with her in Recovery.  In other words ... there has not been too much of an opportunity to make contacts other than family members.

I hope her hubby or daughter lets one of the Monkeys know or ... posts a note on the forum.

 

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

I will be the first to say that I did not watch the taped video of Joran in the car.  From what I have seen I noticed that Joran never looks up.  He looks out the window and it looks like he is in a trance.  I believe he does that to make sure he does not look at the camera in the car.  When I am in the car with someone and I'm always in the front seat I look all over the place even when I am talking.  I look at the roof, glove compartment, dash board, touch the radio, etc.

Did you ever tell someone well don't look but something is happening and you tend to either look down or the opposite way almost like you are in a trance listening but making sure you don't look in the direction of where you were told not to look.  I just can't explain it but I feel Joran knew he was taped and this was all staged and I felt that way from day one.

JMO.

Me too San.

When I read the first rough transcript of this telephone  interview with Joran one day prior to the airing of the video recording ... I knew that something was not right.

Considering that Joran van der Sloot just found out he was caught on tape .... why is he not outraged ... why is he upholding Patrick van der Eem and Peter Devries.

Also ... Joran foretells that he will not be touched by authorities ... his lies will be verified ... his lies will save him.

Something is not right ... especially when you consider Joran's anger issues.

He is not even upset over the empending airing of the video recording. 

Janet

++++++++++++++

Exactly.

I believe the first thing I heard about this guy Patrick was that Joran was fascinated by him.  Give me a break the only person Joran is facinated by is himself.  Then you look at Patrick and I said to myself this is a bunch of bullshit and I ain't falling for this crap.

Believe me San ... you articulate the way it is far better than I ever could.

 

Janet