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Author Topic: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3  (Read 608040 times)
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1440 on: May 06, 2008, 03:42:17 PM »



SS…let me ask you one question…

If I post the Freddy Zedan owns the Indo/Lion’s Den are you going to just take my word for it?

 Caps posts that the Kalpoes - the father or the stepfather, he never did answer which one, according to a girl there, now own it!

You can certainly take what Caps says without questions, but I will not. So please do not repost Caps post to me....Show me the proof!

 I have read everyone of Cap’s post at least three times…each day I type out an index…you would be very surprised what you see on the third read.

All I am trying to say is what you are posting from Caps is not what he said in January!

I am 99% sure as to why he switched to the Indo apartments…the answer is in one of your last few posts…and I will leave it at that!

And yes Lala’s…I am extremely frustrated…seems we have involved just about everyone on Aruba…new names are dropped every week.…I never see Joran’s name in this thread anymore!!!!!

And everytime Caps appears we have more questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

COLUMBO has a word for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





You asked how CAPS came up with the Matty Apartments and  I simply brought his posts forward in the thread.  I don't assume that everything that CAPS has told us is absolutely correct.  I, too, have many questions such as the parents of Steve Croes, whether Hendrick is Rudy's brother or uncle, a second Alabama girl involved, and who is Giovanni Solognier.  I do know that CAPS seems to have a lot of information that we don't have and I am more than willing to listen.  He has certainly given us a lot of new information the past few months and I for one, appreciate that.  I don't know if all of the information is factual.  I know that a lot of the previous information that we do have references and quotes for has unfortunately turned out to be disinformation.  Time will tell.  Many times we are finding ourselves back at square one as we learn new information.  I am personally very interested in the pond for several reasons.  It is near a location that has been pinpointed since Beth and Dave first arrived on Aruba, there have been many references to it from our cryptic guests, TES was interested enough to scan the bottom of the pond, and now there seems to actually be some official investigative activity.  It's more than we have from any of our other information and resources right now, including Joran's confession and Patrick. I am willing to follow CAPS on this one.  He has had some very correct information like Daury Rodriguez's arrest.  It might be an absolute wild goose chase, in which case I will beat him with a banana.  I just have a gut feeling that there is something in that pond.  It might only be a size 14 sneaker, but it's a step in the right direction.  I have also thought that maybe CAPS can't divulge all of his sources of information.  It looks like he gets some of it from registries, libraries, and even local gossip.  He could very well be working for Renfro or AHATA and eventually we'll find out.  Right now, I guess that I'm just willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  Something is going on at that pond.
I Totally Agree SS! 


Guess we will have to agree to disagree. I don't have to give him the benefit of the doubt just because he's Caps

 All I see is a whole lot of new names and misinformation and very few facts...Giovanni, Deutekom, Bulo, Freddy that doesn't exist, odd-bods living at the kalpoes address, list of names that don't match the phone book...
 
Yes, something is going on at that pond, and we are still dealing with Aruba. I'm in total agreement with Lala's on this one, nothing will come of the pond.



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Pita
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« Reply #1441 on: May 06, 2008, 03:44:27 PM »

From Benzworld.org.......

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201-190e-d-class/1272652-fuel-guage-dance.html





Additional Information:

Vehicle:
190d w201 122

Location:
Aruba

Interests:
Jogging

Occupation:
Landsurveyor

Instant Messaging:   spisnap@hotmail.com
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1442 on: May 06, 2008, 03:48:38 PM »

So now Mickey Johns is the boyfriend from earlier in the week...why am I shaking my head again?


This particular pond was never on the radar to either Beth or Dave...please everyone needs to check their facts.  That is why this pond seems to generate such interest.  it was never looked at or searched or even talked about before this. The pond that was the topic of conversation early on was the Moko pond and this one is not the same one.  This pond has never even been on the radar until recently.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1443 on: May 06, 2008, 03:54:20 PM »

Just a coincidence that I ask about Mito Croes and then a week or so later he is a major player...and I won't even start on Vonk...King!!!!!!!!!
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1444 on: May 06, 2008, 03:58:53 PM »

From Benzworld.org.......

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201-190e-d-class/1272652-fuel-guage-dance.html





Additional Information:

Vehicle:
190d w201 122

Location:
Aruba

Interests:
Jogging

Occupation:
Landsurveyor

Instant Messaging:   spisnap@hotmail.com


Thanks Pita...that's the one I found this morning....got busy and forgot to go back and get the link! Didn't check him out any further.
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Pita
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« Reply #1445 on: May 06, 2008, 04:03:06 PM »

Ok....I'll see if I can find anything else.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1446 on: May 06, 2008, 04:04:44 PM »

From Benzworld.org.......

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201-190e-d-class/1272652-fuel-guage-dance.html





Additional Information:

Vehicle:
190d w201 122

Location:
Aruba

Interests:
Jogging

Occupation:
Landsurveyor

Instant Messaging:   spisnap@hotmail.com

So who drives a Mercedes?
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1447 on: May 06, 2008, 04:17:05 PM »

Ok....I'll see if I can find anything else.

LOL...I did look at some-one's wedding pics because they mentioned a Mercedes...But I bet there are not too many on the island!
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1448 on: May 06, 2008, 04:17:09 PM »

Well there are a lot of Bulo's on google...a Russian one...Mexican...etc.  So much to sort through...feel like I am chasing my tail again. 


Caps needs to give us a real name with a real face this time. By what he has said about Bulo this would make him Simian's 5th suspect.
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SS
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« Reply #1449 on: May 06, 2008, 04:17:28 PM »



SS…let me ask you one question…

If I post the Freddy Zedan owns the Indo/Lion’s Den are you going to just take my word for it?

 Caps posts that the Kalpoes - the father or the stepfather, he never did answer which one, according to a girl there, now own it!

You can certainly take what Caps says without questions, but I will not. So please do not repost Caps post to me....Show me the proof!

 I have read everyone of Cap’s post at least three times…each day I type out an index…you would be very surprised what you see on the third read.

All I am trying to say is what you are posting from Caps is not what he said in January!

I am 99% sure as to why he switched to the Indo apartments…the answer is in one of your last few posts…and I will leave it at that!

And yes Lala’s…I am extremely frustrated…seems we have involved just about everyone on Aruba…new names are dropped every week.…I never see Joran’s name in this thread anymore!!!!!

And everytime Caps appears we have more questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

COLUMBO has a word for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





You asked how CAPS came up with the Matty Apartments and  I simply brought his posts forward in the thread.  I don't assume that everything that CAPS has told us is absolutely correct.  I, too, have many questions such as the parents of Steve Croes, whether Hendrick is Rudy's brother or uncle, a second Alabama girl involved, and who is Giovanni Solognier.  I do know that CAPS seems to have a lot of information that we don't have and I am more than willing to listen.  He has certainly given us a lot of new information the past few months and I for one, appreciate that.  I don't know if all of the information is factual.  I know that a lot of the previous information that we do have references and quotes for has unfortunately turned out to be disinformation.  Time will tell.  Many times we are finding ourselves back at square one as we learn new information.  I am personally very interested in the pond for several reasons.  It is near a location that has been pinpointed since Beth and Dave first arrived on Aruba, there have been many references to it from our cryptic guests, TES was interested enough to scan the bottom of the pond, and now there seems to actually be some official investigative activity.  It's more than we have from any of our other information and resources right now, including Joran's confession and Patrick. I am willing to follow CAPS on this one.  He has had some very correct information like Daury Rodriguez's arrest.  It might be an absolute wild goose chase, in which case I will beat him with a banana.  I just have a gut feeling that there is something in that pond.  It might only be a size 14 sneaker, but it's a step in the right direction.  I have also thought that maybe CAPS can't divulge all of his sources of information.  It looks like he gets some of it from registries, libraries, and even local gossip.  He could very well be working for Renfro or AHATA and eventually we'll find out.  Right now, I guess that I'm just willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  Something is going on at that pond.
I Totally Agree SS! 



*Nobody said that the pond itself was previously searched.  I said that it was near a location that had been pinpointed since the beginning.*

I don't know why people are so down on CAPS.  I have questions about things that have come up.  I mentioned them above.  I am also not real sure about some of the party-goers that have been identified.  I don't know who CAPS is.  I understand that he did communicate with LaLa and Klaas.  He has at least revealed his identity. I don't know what his motivation is.  It could be personal, political, or he could be just trying to frustrate us.  He could be an Aruban who is just sick of the nonsense.  He has a theory just as we all do.  I don't agree with every theory on this forum and I'm sure that many don't agree with my theory.  At least CAPS has made an effort to actually present his theory to TES, Beth and Dave, and the FBI.  He could be completely off base, but at least he's been forthright.  He might not even have the answers to all of our questions, especially if he is getting his information from an informant.  This is probably why he has depended on us to do a lot of the research.  CAPS has always been completely respectful and considerate when working with us and that hasn't been true with some recent posters.  He is revealing a lot of information that could actually bring him a lot of problems on that island.  I'm willing to give him a chance.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1450 on: May 06, 2008, 04:32:02 PM »

SS...A simple question as to if Deutekom was a Judge should have been answered 150 pages ago....so should the reason for him going back to the Indo/Lion's Den after he told me no to there. these are simple questions and both merit an answer!

I can't buy Cap's Dirty Hand Deutekom, because how he got to him was flawed. If he is not a Judge he wouldn't have been on that list. It is as simple as that!

There are more questions now than when Caps first started posting!

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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1451 on: May 06, 2008, 04:37:29 PM »

SS
No one is down on Caps...I know his real name and I know a lot about him.  It is just not getting us any where by running around looking for things that simply do not fit.  Anything...and I mean anything can be made to fit into the Shango riddles.  If you take it out of context there is no need to make it work...you can just say it's so and let it be.  Apparently some think this forum is for fun and laughs...but I am not into that...if Shango was legit then what Shango says will fit one way and only one way.  You can't have it mean a million things and then expect any one to give credibility. 

Caps has had many...many theories of what he thinks Shango means...keep in mind it is all just theories until proven correct.  The pond issue is not the same...if this is a legitimate place that needs searching...and I for one believe it could be important...then other things should tie into this also.  If Steve Croes is Hendrick Croes, Jr.  then that is a big statement and it should be easily proven by anyone living in Aruba...if it  is true. Throwing a million names out and changing the plot of the story every week is not very good for credibility so I continue to ask questions that tend to irritate everyone concerning what anyone has said. 

Caps knows that I am going to ask what about Joran?  Has anyone besides me realized that Shango is the "anyone but Joran" mystery writer?  I bet Caps has...we have talked.  He claims a doppleganger for almost everyone...then who are they and why in the heck is that the case?  If this is a kidnapping gone bad and the wrong person was taken..that is big, big, big news...nothing Caps has told us is small in content...nothing...it is all blockbuster stuff that if we could get a handle on it and prove any of it beyond a reasonable doubt would possibly blow Aruba right out of the water. 

Caps knows that I will not take anything as fact without proof..that is why I will continue to ask the questions...not choosing to answer them does not help anything.  Don't get me wrong Caps has answered many of my questions...sometimes I ask a question that I already know the answer for.  Someone besides me needs to look at the big picture and realize that if any of this is true...it's big....BIG!!
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2NJSons_Mom
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« Reply #1452 on: May 06, 2008, 04:41:55 PM »

FWIW

Bulo, according to babel fish means 'hoax' in Spanish.

Bolo, according to babel fish and papiamento translator means 'cake' in portuguese & pap.  Bolo, according to babel fish means 'skittle' in Spanish.

  
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« Reply #1453 on: May 06, 2008, 06:12:17 PM »

Caps

Is Bulo Mickey Johns?  Inquiring minds want to know...how did you come to that conclusion?  That would be an intriguing theory there for sure.  Posting his PV below for reference.

PROCES – VERBAAL

I, Clyde Anthony BURKE, sergeant first class, at the Korps Police Force Aruba and district II, explain the following at the section to multi-prevention crime classified.

On June 5, 2005 around 10:30 I, BURKE, interrogated as a suspect the man who gave his name as:

Antonios Mickey JOHN,

born in Greneda on September 25, 1974 of profession guard (A.S.I.S.) and living at the address Van Speykstraat xxxxxxx on Aruba.

Before the questioning, the suspect A.M. JOHN was notified that he was not obligated to speak.

The statement was given in English and translated by me, BURKE, into Dutch, has been put on record and sounds as follows:

Although I know that I am not obliged to speak, I am nevertheless prepared to give a statement. This the first time that I have come in contact with the police force and/or justice. I ended my guarding job on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 with the above company. The reason for this was that the contract that the company had for monitoring the “Allegro Hotel” had ended. I have worked since August 19, 2003 for this company.

On your question what is the color of the company uniform, I will answer you the following: The color is dark blue a trousers with a white vest.

On your question if it’s possible I wear a wind jacket with my uniform while working, I will answer you the following: I generally wear a black wind jacket if I have night duty.

On your question what shift (hours) I worked on the night May 29, 2005 up to May 30, 2005, I will answer you the following: Sunday May 29, 2005 I worked from 06.00 till 14.00, I remember this clearly because there was a festival on the beach of the “Holiday Inn Hotel” because of the Soul Beach Music Festival. On Monday May 30, 2005 I worked from 06.00 till 14.00. That same evening I worked from 23:00 to May 31, 2005 around 07:00.

On your question where I worked, I will answer you the following: I worked those days at the “Allegro Hotel”. On Monday I had day service and was a casino monitor. The night duty I monitored the outside.

On your question what I mean by the outside, I will answer you the following: Monitoring the outside to make sure no problems occur.

On your question if I go to other hotels when I am working, I will answer you the following: I sometimes walk to the “Radisson" and the "Holiday Inn hotel".

On your question when was the last time I was at the "Holiday Inn Hotel", I will answer you the following: On Sunday May 29, 2005 around 12.00 I went to the hotel for the celebration on the beach. I also went on Sunday May 29, 2005 at around 21.00.

On your question what I did there, I will answer you the following: I have a girlfriend who comes to Aruba from Boston. We met last year at the Allegro Hotel. Now that the Allegro Hotel is close, she stays somewhere in an apartment.

On your question if I can give you her full name, address, phone number and in which apartment she stayed, I will answer you the following: She is called, “J” from Boston. I do not know her address and phone number. I saw her on Sunday at the beach festival. We agreed that I would meet her in the evening hours at the "Holiday Inn" hotel. I didn’t remain there long because I had to work the next day. I didn’t see her again until Wednesday. I spoke with her and she said that nobody had seen the missing tourist.

On your question how I know what time I left, I will explain the following: I got there around 21:00 and left between 23:00 and 24:00. I don’t remember the exact time well. I do remember I had to leave because the next day I was asked to work.

On your question if I walked by the lobby of the hotel, I will explain to you the following: I walked by means of the sand because my car was parked between the “Allegro Hotel” and the “Hyatt Hotel”.

On your question what kind of car I drive, I will explain to you the following: I drive a red “Toyota Tercel”, license number x-xxxxx. The car is owned by my mother.

On your question if I spoke with anyone at the "Holiday Inn Hotel", I will answer you the following: I spoke only with “J” (girlfriend).

I can you explain that on Sunday were there young people at the bar. They were gone before I left. This was in "sport bar" of the hotel.

On your question if I spoke with any of them, I will answer you the following: I did not speak with any of them.

On your question if I have heard about the missing American tourist, I will answer you the following: I have heard about her.

On your question if I know or have seen the missing girl, I will answer you the following: I do not know her and I have also never seen her.

On your question if I know a man named M. CELAIRE, I will answer you the following: I know him by sight. Everyone that works as a guard at the hotels must know him or of him He commits many thefts in the hotels.

On your question when was the last time I saw “M” at the hotels, I will answer you the following: The last time I saw him was May 31, 2005 in the evening hours. I cannot remember how late it was.

On your question how he was dressed, I will answer you the following: He wore shorts, I cannot remember the color now and his upper body was bare.

On your question where I exactly saw him, I will answer you the following: I saw him in the vicinity of the Allegro. He was walking south in the direction of the “Raddison Hotel”. I must I did have a problem with “M” a long time ago. He once said to me that our guards sent the police force for him and that he would stab us. He had called me on my mobile telephone. I had found him hereafter during one of shifts and about this pointed out. I had him that we should talk right then if he had a problem and solve it then. He said to me that one of the guards that wore a black wind jacket sent the police force for him. I told him I was not the only guard that wears a black jacket.

On your question what I wore on Sunday when I went to the hotel, I will answer you the following:
I can remember I had on jean trousers. I cannot remember now if they are the same jean trousers that I now have on. (note interrogator: suspect A.M. JOHN has blue jean trousers of the make "No Fear")

On your question if I’ve seen anyone acting strangely in the vicinity of the hotels these last days, I will answer you the following: I have seen no one acting strangely in the vicinity of the hotels.

I have not kidnapped or have assassinated anybody. That I would never do. I know that tourism is important for Aruba and I would never do something to disadvantage this. It brings in money and also jobs. I have lived here 10 years already and have worked hard for my money. I know that at the "Holiday Inn Hotel" many of the so-called "beachbums" hang around and sleep there at night. You should question them.

A.M. JOHN

After I, BURKE, read the declaration to the suspect A.M. JOHN in English, I translated it and he agreed to sign it.

Of which by me, BURKE, on my oath of office made this proces verbaal, which has been signed and closed at Noord on June 5, 2005.

Signed,

C.A. BURKE
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texasmom
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« Reply #1454 on: May 06, 2008, 07:36:46 PM »

I usually try to keep up with what is being posted from work, peeking in when I can so I won't have so much to catch up on.  Today I finally stopped reading, the frustration was too much.  I understand perfectly who Caps says that Deutekom is, in my opinion it's obvious that Caps misunderstood what the list of judges was.  It only takes reading back to his posts to find that Caps has never said he was a judge!  I am convinced by my research that the man Caps refers to as the Super Dirty Hand does exist in the OM's office but there is very little information regarding him, and no ones found a picture yet.  Caps never said WHO Bulo was!  The tail chasing didn't just start in this thread and I'm sure it would still be ongoing if Caps had never joined us.  He has been here since December.  He has as much right as any of us to have an idea about what took place and then decide that maybe that's not what happened and research another possibility.  He shouldn't be expected to answer all questions asked of him, no one else does.  Frankly I don't care to constantly read how much more some here know than others when they have no intention of sharing the information here.  What does that accomplish?  In context or not, the Shango riddles could possibly be a bunch of disinformation put out there so some would chase their tails for eternity.  I am more interested in what actually goes on in Aruba, and if possible what was going on in Aruba in May of 2005.  I first came to this thread thinking that the riddles might have bits and pieces of information regarding that; not that they were by any means the absolute truth!  In my opinion someone who is actually there will come closer to finding that information than I will.  I enjoy Caps input, if I don't agree with something; I put it behind me and go on.  I believe that Caps wants to help solve the mystery.  He didn't come here with all the answers, just like the rest of us.  All of the negative rehashing and questioning of every single thing Caps says is just too much for me.  I don't believe it is fair to him or to everyone else that appreciates what he's brought to the forum.  I wish it would stop but I'm not going to ask anyone to do anything...I'm just going to take a break.  I think that's probably the best thing to do.  JMO
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #1455 on: May 06, 2008, 07:57:05 PM »

I'm with Ya TM....Over in the Natalee thread they are talking about putting an ad in the Diario to get tips about the case.....when all along Caps is there....doing exactly that.....We all have to keep an open mind and connect the dots......Caps has given Us lots of dots to connect......not just the same old thing over and over.....Go Caps and Thanks for All You are doing to help find Natalee....

It is Not All about the riddles.....Although the riddles do hold some truth...JMO

I admire All the Monkeys that have been here for the last  3 yrs working to find Justice for Natalee.....but sometimes new leads come in and You have to think outside the box....Again JMO
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« Reply #1456 on: May 06, 2008, 08:11:21 PM »

Well I guess we are all frustrated today!

I attempted to explain to Caps at least 3 times the Judges list, and as one who tries to answer other poster’s questions, and acknowledge their posts I expected an answer on at least one of those occasions! If you have read my posts you would know that I have acknowledged that Deutekom may be a ‘Dirty Hand’ , just questioning the way he got there.

You can check my posts for this morning and see that I try to ‘share’ what I know! Have a look and see if my answer to another poster was even acknowledged!

I guess in your opinion it is OK for Caps to fire of all these questions at us, but he is not obligated to answer ours. Most of my questions to him have been about posts he has made and names like Bulo’s that we have never heard of. I have asked very few about things I am researching.

I have not asked any more from Caps than I would have asked from any other poster…back up your posts! BS on putting him in any sort of position! Not to the questions I have asked anyways.

Yes there are other theories on this thread, and I for one am sick and tired of having only one jammed down my throat.

I have read Caps posts many times and it is up to me if I go along with everything or anything he says. Maybe it might help some if you let Caps know that it is creating problems by him dropping names with no other info….it would help a lot and certainly save some of us a lot of time….

JMHO
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« Reply #1457 on: May 06, 2008, 08:20:03 PM »

This is a discussion forum and I appreciate Caps posts very much and I love his humor. He doesn't hold the answers and has several theories like we all do and I am here to support him in his efforts to find the truth. He doesn't respond to my questions sometimes and doesn't explain many things but it seems to coincide with this thread..LOL! English isn't his native language so sometimes he is misunderstood and he is a unique character to SM,to be honest I take his posts with a grain of salt as I do most of the speculation from all the theories and opinions.  I have no reason to question his posts and sometimes I even think Joran is not the one who killed Natalee. As you know the main theory is Joran did hurt Natalee and PVDS was called but I keep a open mind to other possibilities. There are lots of them as I can't rule out many suspicious people of being involved.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 08:31:46 PM by Observer » Logged

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« Reply #1458 on: May 06, 2008, 08:27:15 PM »

When I can no longer question what is said in this forum then it is time for me to move on.  I have always asked questions...not because I disagree or don't believe but for clarification.  Most of the questions I ask I already either know or have a pretty good idea what the answer is before I ask it.  Often the reason I question something is because someone else has asked me about it.  If because I want to see how something fits in context or try to find a way to prove it is true then maybe I have been mistaken about this forum all along. Never my intention to come down on anyone here...all ideas are welcome, even the way out ones. The main reason I have been here for 3 years is because of Natalee and her family. 

Caps has brought us some interesting things to ponder and wonder about.  He has done what others have feared to do and that is get involved.  Caps knows that I have understandable trust issues with the Aruban people.  He and I have discussed this at length before.  I know Caps is a fine person and has brought us some information that if true would be very big in exposing that corruption and cover up we all suspect. He has never been anything but honest with me and I have maintained that confidence for a reason. If what I think is going to happen actually does then there will be many happy people here for a change.  Caps is to be credited with some good work. I never for one minute thought that my questioning his information would be taken as a negative toward him in any way. Caps knows where I stand and that is sufficient for me.  I am the one that encouraged everyone to give him a chance and to trust him...I still believe that is true given the present circumstances.

This thread is one of the most interesting and thought provoking ones around concerning theories and ideas on this case.  I will try to refrain from any more questions and just read and offer info where I can, but I do not wish to disrupt the flow here.  It has produced some interesting ideas. One of my pet peeves is not using facts to back up theories...I want to take these theories out of that realm and make something fit that really makes sense.  I see I can not do that and that is why I will be quiet now and just read.  I have a feeling that things are about to change and much of what some think will be proven true and maybe then this family will have the answers they deserve. It is true that no good deed goes unpunished.  Until then continue to tango with Shango.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1459 on: May 06, 2008, 08:33:41 PM »

This is a discussion forum and I appreciate Caps posts very much and I love his humor. He doesn't hold the answers and has several theories like we all do and I am here to support him in his efforts to find the truth. He doesn't respond to my questions sometimes and doesn't explain many things but it seems to coincide with this thread..LOL! English isn't his native language so sometimes he is misunderstood and he is a unique character to SM,to be honest I take his posts with a grain of salt as I do most of the speculation from all the theories and opinions.  I have no reason to question his posts and sometimes I even think Joran is not the one who killed Natalee. As you know the main theory is Joran did hurt Natalee and PVDS was called but I keep a open mind to other possibilities. There are lots of them as I can't rule out many suspicious people of being involved.


*******…as you said this is a discussion forum and I have reason to question things in Caps posts! Most times when I have done so I do not receive an answer or if I do it is the post of Caps I am referring to posted back to me. Sorry … to me that is not discussion.


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