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Author Topic: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3  (Read 598720 times)
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #360 on: April 19, 2008, 09:05:00 PM »

Mum - just to confuse matters a little more.  I read the Andrew Hodge's book a few months ago.  My brain felt like swiss cheese when I finished.  He is the one who is a detective from Alabama and was onboard the Persistence.  He also met with the fishermen who lost the trap.  He believes that Natalee died in the car, near the beach, while being raped and suffocated by Joran, Satish, and Deepak.  He has analysed an email that Deepak sent to a friend in the US, based on these thought-prints that he uses.  Dr. Hodge's thinks that Natalee died while Deepak was raping her.


Ah yes!  Dear Dr. Hodges.  Still waiting for any of his info to turn out to be true.  That particular email has been discussed at length at SM.  Several of us feel that Deepak did not write that email alone...as in he had help from a Sloot...so if true...would that mean that Dr. Hodges is describing the wrong person and it could in fact be Joran?  His thought printing is about as reliable in some ways as Shango...no offense to him.

Still, what you are saying are the thoughts of many monkeys...the KISS theory of it was the perps and Natalee and they raped her and she either ran from them or fought them to the point that one of them injured her fatally or that she did indeed suffocate during the rape.  This theory has some valid points that could be supported given a few things we do know...

1. Deepak cleaning his car in the wee hours of the morning...maybe to clean vomit or blood or other fluids from his car after the rape.  I would think Natalee's hair would have been in his car or some evidence that she was there...but I think it was clean.
2. The gardener witness that saw Joran, Deepak and some other person in Deepak's car near the Racquet Club.
3. The need for Deepak and Satish to insist they left Joran and Natalee at the beach and went home.
4. The text messaging that went on during that night and Deepak admitting he was trying to confuse the investigation.
5. Satish asking about Natalee..."how's the girl?"
6. Deepak admitting there was something on Natalee to see..."see that chit"

These are just a few of the obvious things that could indicate it's true.  You are not too far off in your thinking from many of the monkeys here. There are just so many scenarios and so little actual facts that we know.
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #361 on: April 19, 2008, 09:05:10 PM »

I wonder if the Lions Den could have been where Natalee was taken.  There were many 'trolls' that wanted to keep that place away from the public speculation.  Also the Indo restaurant.  IIRC, was the whole place redone?  I always found that odd.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #362 on: April 19, 2008, 09:08:38 PM »


Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:30 pm
Paulus has been picked up.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:23 pm
The older Van Der Sloot has been taken in again by Aruban Police.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:27 pm
Can’t confirm that he is detained. He has been taken in again by the authorities.

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:46 pm
Confirmed. He has been detained

Simian Says: June 23rd, 2005 at 2:52 pm
Oh my God…

again: context/context/context

sim's "oh my god" was no biggie/was in reference to:

Jake on June 23rd, 2005 2:49 pm
Greta is on Fox news, and she is saying that just because he was taken in DOES NOT mean he is being charged. It might just be for more questioning. Any thoughts?


and followed by:

Simian on June 23rd, 2005 2:53 pm
Has Greta not learned yet that we don’t charge our people until trial???


sim's "oh my god" was said in disgust re Greta's reporting skills,
not in amazement/whatever re latest developments that day

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

digging in my heels on this one:

there were at least two factions inside ALE,
one corrupt/one ethical

one faction said: yup, SGs are the perps ...
the other faction said: bah! J/K2 are FOS/SGs are patsies

so, depending on which faction was "feeding" simian ...
the SGs were never truly considered to be suspects
and therefore shouldn't be among those counted

the count begins w/ J/K2

also, depending on which ALE faction was feeding sim:
"unofficial" suspects" may never have reached "official" detainment status

they set off hinky meters among some in ALE/they were viewed as suspects
but they may not have been detained/arrested




OMG!!! Finally!! Someone posting something in context to what is being said among the FP posters....I think I may faint...yes...I am going to faint. 

Sorry, for the drama...but it's so rare that anyone ever does this...but me...of course.

 
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #363 on: April 19, 2008, 09:29:15 PM »

I wonder if the Lions Den could have been where Natalee was taken.  There were many 'trolls' that wanted to keep that place away from the public speculation.  Also the Indo restaurant.  IIRC, was the whole place redone?  I always found that odd.

Yes, this is a long held theory by many here...it's just that recently we learned how many of these hidden places exist on Aruba...so it could be this particular one..the same one Dave visited and was in the Claussen photos...or...it could be elsewhere.
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CapsLockWizard
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« Reply #364 on: April 19, 2008, 11:46:28 PM »

I wonder if the Lions Den could have been where Natalee was taken.  There were many 'trolls' that wanted to keep that place away from the public speculation.  Also the Indo restaurant.  IIRC, was the whole place redone?  I always found that odd.

Yes, this is a long held theory by many here...it's just that recently we learned how many of these hidden places exist on Aruba...so it could be this particular one..the same one Dave visited and was in the Claussen photos...or...it could be elsewhere.


There is only 2 that operate in thaat fashon. The Whitehouse and the Matty Apartment.
The whitehouse has not change his operational hours

the one that change his operational hours is Matty due to the scandal the owner had with the case of Natalee.

so it is Matty place.

Other places that are used is the caller or requester place. This can be either a Hotel or an Apartment. Matty Charges $25 for 1 hours. while the Whitehouse charges 50.00 Florins for 2 hours

Matty anything goes before incident. Whitehouse policiy has stayed the same. Couples only

the white house has 2 section:

section one where you parked your car infront of the apartment.
Section two where you drive in with the card in the apartments garage. more private. no one will see you.


Matty no one get in without passing trough the VIP club for the keys.

CAPS
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sirensong
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« Reply #365 on: April 20, 2008, 03:38:13 AM »

Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 19, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Colombo
I think we know by now that you think the 5th suspect is Paulus.  I am still waiting for the connection to a "cool and crazy" guy that Natalee would be the least interested in being Paulus...he's a dirty old man and I think even Natalee would think that too.  I have tried...but my mind just can't fathom her being interested in him at all...ever.






Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating



I never  believed Mary was Natalee, because  I do not believe in a million years that  she went willingly with Joran to use drugs, gamble, have sex or whatever.    If Mary in this riddle  is Natalee, then  rolling into the maze just means she went to  party  at C&C's (which is  the maze,  or just "nightlife") and the  lions (predators)    were  there  looking for more than just partying.  I  don't think Joran is the  "lamb"  either.   He didn't  run bleating, and he could never be described as a lamb in any way.  I wonder if this is Guido, or someone  else  that went there that  night and  couldn't bring themselves to participate.  Joran WAS  involved, no way was he  the scapegoat.  MHO
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COLOMBO
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« Reply #366 on: April 20, 2008, 07:28:30 AM »

Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 19, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Colombo
I think we know by now that you think the 5th suspect is Paulus.  I am still waiting for the connection to a "cool and crazy" guy that Natalee would be the least interested in being Paulus...he's a dirty old man and I think even Natalee would think that too.  I have tried...but my mind just can't fathom her being interested in him at all...ever.






Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating



I never  believed Mary was Natalee, because  I do not believe in a million years that  she went willingly with Joran to use drugs, gamble, have sex or whatever.    If Mary in this riddle  is Natalee, then  rolling into the maze just means she went to  party  at C&C's (which is  the maze,  or just "nightlife") and the  lions (predators)    were  there  looking for more than just partying.  I  don't think Joran is the  "lamb"  either.   He didn't  run bleating, and he could never be described as a lamb in any way.  I wonder if this is Guido, or someone  else  that went there that  night and  couldn't bring themselves to participate.  Joran WAS  involved, no way was he  the scapegoat.  MHO




"but it WAS NOT a game"
pg 4, "the game"
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”

lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze
the maze is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

fires are lit ("light the fires"=turn up the heat as in LE)
but now the lamb is a goat

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

complicity to kidnapping(?)

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SS
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« Reply #367 on: April 20, 2008, 09:24:23 AM »

Mum - just to confuse matters a little more.  I read the Andrew Hodge's book a few months ago.  My brain felt like swiss cheese when I finished.  He is the one who is a detective from Alabama and was onboard the Persistence.  He also met with the fishermen who lost the trap.  He believes that Natalee died in the car, near the beach, while being raped and suffocated by Joran, Satish, and Deepak.  He has analysed an email that Deepak sent to a friend in the US, based on these thought-prints that he uses.  Dr. Hodge's thinks that Natalee died while Deepak was raping her.


Ah yes!  Dear Dr. Hodges.  Still waiting for any of his info to turn out to be true.  That particular email has been discussed at length at SM.  Several of us feel that Deepak did not write that email alone...as in he had help from a Sloot...so if true...would that mean that Dr. Hodges is describing the wrong person and it could in fact be Joran?  His thought printing is about as reliable in some ways as Shango...no offense to him.

Still, what you are saying are the thoughts of many monkeys...the KISS theory of it was the perps and Natalee and they raped her and she either ran from them or fought them to the point that one of them injured her fatally or that she did indeed suffocate during the rape.  This theory has some valid points that could be supported given a few things we do know...

1. Deepak cleaning his car in the wee hours of the morning...maybe to clean vomit or blood or other fluids from his car after the rape.  I would think Natalee's hair would have been in his car or some evidence that she was there...but I think it was clean.
2. The gardener witness that saw Joran, Deepak and some other person in Deepak's car near the Racquet Club.
3. The need for Deepak and Satish to insist they left Joran and Natalee at the beach and went home.
4. The text messaging that went on during that night and Deepak admitting he was trying to confuse the investigation.
5. Satish asking about Natalee..."how's the girl?"
6. Deepak admitting there was something on Natalee to see..."see that chit"

These are just a few of the obvious things that could indicate it's true.  You are not too far off in your thinking from many of the monkeys here. There are just so many scenarios and so little actual facts that we know.



     The location on the beach and the involvement of just the three boys, minus a rape, closely follows the Patrick video.  There are pieces of it that seem highly plausible to me, but I really don't think that Natalee was attacked by three teenagers in the back seet of a Honda.  Isn't Joran 6'5"?
     I also felt that Dr Hodges did not take into consideration that English for Deepak is a third language and one in which he doesn't have very good writing/grammar skills.  Hodges referred to Deepak's choice of words, syntax, etc.  I thought that his choice of words sounded like English slang that had probably been picked up on the streets. It's most likely the only English he knows.  I don't think it's valid for Deepak's writing to be examined like writing of a native English speaker.
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Rob
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« Reply #368 on: April 20, 2008, 09:40:11 AM »

I have an interesting thought... well to me anyway.

Has anyone considered that Paulus' diploma was faked and so where his grades? I see a passage that seems to be in direct line with this thought. It's in the last page or two.

Remember when Paulus supposedly failed his judge test in March of 05... well, maybe he never even actually took the test and that's what we were told. I would image that before such a test was administered there was a through and complete review of everything Paulus had done or accomplished. Just to double check and make sure that everything was in line and order. It could have been that upon review some inconsistencies were found and the test was yanked. So, he didn't fail, but never took the test - hence - no judgeship.

Normally I would consider someone job history off limits, but Paulus was a formal suspect and this seem to have occurred less than three months prior, and could be a motivating factor as to his behavior.

It's probably not correct, but just thinking how that passage "could" fit Paulus.
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« Reply #369 on: April 20, 2008, 09:41:04 AM »

Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 19, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Colombo
I think we know by now that you think the 5th suspect is Paulus.  I am still waiting for the connection to a "cool and crazy" guy that Natalee would be the least interested in being Paulus...he's a dirty old man and I think even Natalee would think that too.  I have tried...but my mind just can't fathom her being interested in him at all...ever.



I also have a gut feeling that Paulus is probably the 5th, however, something is wrong within the riddle.  Paulus is definitely not a wild or crazy guy from earlier in the week.  This would have to be Steve Croes or Lorenzo as the 5th.  I have thought about Paulus being referred to as a boyfriend.  Maybe he liked Natalee when he met her and wanted the action.  Maybe he was mad that his son got to her first.  Otherwise, he just doesn't fit in the riddle.  He's a crusty old guy.


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating



I never  believed Mary was Natalee, because  I do not believe in a million years that  she went willingly with Joran to use drugs, gamble, have sex or whatever.    If Mary in this riddle  is Natalee, then  rolling into the maze just means she went to  party  at C&C's (which is  the maze,  or just "nightlife") and the  lions (predators)    were  there  looking for more than just partying.  I  don't think Joran is the  "lamb"  either.   He didn't  run bleating, and he could never be described as a lamb in any way.  I wonder if this is Guido, or someone  else  that went there that  night and  couldn't bring themselves to participate.  Joran WAS  involved, no way was he  the scapegoat.  MHO




"but it WAS NOT a game"
pg 4, "the game"
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”

lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze
the maze is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

fires are lit ("light the fires"=turn up the heat as in LE)
but now the lamb is a goat

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

complicity to kidnapping(?)


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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #370 on: April 20, 2008, 09:43:00 AM »

Good thoughts in here guys! 

Sirensong
According to Shango...and depending on whose interpretation you use...the meanings of those verses can be completely different.  I have no problem with the Mary and lamb interpretations you used...in fact...Caps has offered various forms of that also.  We just have no proof that any of what we think of those verses is indeed the truth.

Colombo
I am almost afraid to say I think I understand you...LOL...yes, it was NOT a game...as you often hint...it was a planned event.  I have given up trying to understand you after all this time...I just wish you would say what you really think. LOL

Caps
What happened to those Dutch owned apartments you talked about early in your writings?  Have you discounted them and moved on the the Lions Den?  What kind of scandal are you referring to that related to the Natalee case?  As far as I know that restaurant and motel was not brought up in our media?  Where did this attention to this place happen?  In Aruba?  Was it reported there?

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« Reply #371 on: April 20, 2008, 09:44:15 AM »

Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 19, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Colombo
I think we know by now that you think the 5th suspect is Paulus.  I am still waiting for the connection to a "cool and crazy" guy that Natalee would be the least interested in being Paulus...he's a dirty old man and I think even Natalee would think that too.  I have tried...but my mind just can't fathom her being interested in him at all...ever.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating



I never  believed Mary was Natalee, because  I do not believe in a million years that  she went willingly with Joran to use drugs, gamble, have sex or whatever.    If Mary in this riddle  is Natalee, then  rolling into the maze just means she went to  party  at C&C's (which is  the maze,  or just "nightlife") and the  lions (predators)    were  there  looking for more than just partying.  I  don't think Joran is the  "lamb"  either.   He didn't  run bleating, and he could never be described as a lamb in any way.  I wonder if this is Guido, or someone  else  that went there that  night and  couldn't bring themselves to participate.  Joran WAS  involved, no way was he  the scapegoat.  MHO




"but it WAS NOT a game"
pg 4, "the game"
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”

lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze
the maze is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

fires are lit ("light the fires"=turn up the heat as in LE)
but now the lamb is a goat

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

complicity to kidnapping(?)





This should have been at the end, not in the middle of the other post.  Sorry!!

I also have a gut feeling that Paulus is probably the 5th, however, something is wrong within the riddle.  Paulus is definitely not a wild or crazy guy from earlier in the week.  This would have to be Steve Croes or Lorenzo as the 5th.  I have thought about Paulus being referred to as a boyfriend.  Maybe he liked Natalee when he met her and wanted the action.  Maybe he was mad that his son got to her first.  Otherwise, he just doesn't fit in the riddle.  He's a crusty old guy.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #372 on: April 20, 2008, 09:56:30 AM »

I have an interesting thought... well to me anyway.

Has anyone considered that Paulus' diploma was faked and so where his grades? I see a passage that seems to be in direct line with this thought. It's in the last page or two.

Remember when Paulus supposedly failed his judge test in March of 05... well, maybe he never even actually took the test and that's what we were told. I would image that before such a test was administered there was a through and complete review of everything Paulus had done or accomplished. Just to double check and make sure that everything was in line and order. It could have been that upon review some inconsistencies were found and the test was yanked. So, he didn't fail, but never took the test - hence - no judgeship.

Normally I would consider someone job history off limits, but Paulus was a formal suspect and this seem to have occurred less than three months prior, and could be a motivating factor as to his behavior.

It's probably not correct, but just thinking how that passage "could" fit Paulus.

Hmmmmm.  I have often wondered when Paulus told Anita that he failed his judgeship and why?  He did spend a lot of time away from home working on it and then to have failed it all...must have been a blow to the whole family...looking back now...it does not seem to have mattered...something he knew has been very instrumental in keeping everyone out of prison.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #373 on: April 20, 2008, 10:00:11 AM »

Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 19, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Colombo
I think we know by now that you think the 5th suspect is Paulus.  I am still waiting for the connection to a "cool and crazy" guy that Natalee would be the least interested in being Paulus...he's a dirty old man and I think even Natalee would think that too.  I have tried...but my mind just can't fathom her being interested in him at all...ever.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating



I never  believed Mary was Natalee, because  I do not believe in a million years that  she went willingly with Joran to use drugs, gamble, have sex or whatever.    If Mary in this riddle  is Natalee, then  rolling into the maze just means she went to  party  at C&C's (which is  the maze,  or just "nightlife") and the  lions (predators)    were  there  looking for more than just partying.  I  don't think Joran is the  "lamb"  either.   He didn't  run bleating, and he could never be described as a lamb in any way.  I wonder if this is Guido, or someone  else  that went there that  night and  couldn't bring themselves to participate.  Joran WAS  involved, no way was he  the scapegoat.  MHO




"but it WAS NOT a game"
pg 4, "the game"
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”

lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze
the maze is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

fires are lit ("light the fires"=turn up the heat as in LE)
but now the lamb is a goat

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

complicity to kidnapping(?)





This should have been at the end, not in the middle of the other post.  Sorry!!

I also have a gut feeling that Paulus is probably the 5th, however, something is wrong within the riddle.  Paulus is definitely not a wild or crazy guy from earlier in the week.  This would have to be Steve Croes or Lorenzo as the 5th.  I have thought about Paulus being referred to as a boyfriend.  Maybe he liked Natalee when he met her and wanted the action.  Maybe he was mad that his son got to her first.  Otherwise, he just doesn't fit in the riddle.  He's a crusty old guy.



Freddy...strike out 20 times...but on the 21st....
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #374 on: April 20, 2008, 10:06:20 AM »

Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 19, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Colombo
I think we know by now that you think the 5th suspect is Paulus.  I am still waiting for the connection to a "cool and crazy" guy that Natalee would be the least interested in being Paulus...he's a dirty old man and I think even Natalee would think that too.  I have tried...but my mind just can't fathom her being interested in him at all...ever.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating



I never  believed Mary was Natalee, because  I do not believe in a million years that  she went willingly with Joran to use drugs, gamble, have sex or whatever.    If Mary in this riddle  is Natalee, then  rolling into the maze just means she went to  party  at C&C's (which is  the maze,  or just "nightlife") and the  lions (predators)    were  there  looking for more than just partying.  I  don't think Joran is the  "lamb"  either.   He didn't  run bleating, and he could never be described as a lamb in any way.  I wonder if this is Guido, or someone  else  that went there that  night and  couldn't bring themselves to participate.  Joran WAS  involved, no way was he  the scapegoat.  MHO




"but it WAS NOT a game"
pg 4, "the game"
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”

lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze
the maze is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

fires are lit ("light the fires"=turn up the heat as in LE)
but now the lamb is a goat

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

complicity to kidnapping(?)





This should have been at the end, not in the middle of the other post.  Sorry!!

I also have a gut feeling that Paulus is probably the 5th, however, something is wrong within the riddle.  Paulus is definitely not a wild or crazy guy from earlier in the week.  This would have to be Steve Croes or Lorenzo as the 5th.  I have thought about Paulus being referred to as a boyfriend.  Maybe he liked Natalee when he met her and wanted the action.  Maybe he was mad that his son got to her first.  Otherwise, he just doesn't fit in the riddle.  He's a crusty old guy.


My thoughts too!  Colombo has never wavered in his opinion about who is his 5th suspect.  The pieces fall into place except for a few things. The only info we have to go on is from Simian...no one else ever talks about a 5th suspect...with Shango there is dirty hand.  Many have said that the 5th suspect and dirty hand are one and the same...not enough to make me believe it yet...still waiting for that proof. 

If Paulus is the 5th suspect I would need to know when was the party?  Was there one at Paulus house that night and who were there (I have thought this out and can fill in blanks here..just can't prove it) that became the alibi for him? The only thing I have seen is the casino video that supposedly has Paulus sitting beside Natalee at the table.   To me, Paulus does not seem like a "cool and crazy" guy.  He seems more like a sick old man looking for a fresh piece of meat for his nightly escapades.  I do not see Natalee interested in him in that video...I only see her being polite.  If she was infatuated with him in any way...why doesn't that show in that video?  I know, I know, some will say it is because that isn't Paulus...yeah right...and that isn't his son he points over to while talking to Natalee either.
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« Reply #375 on: April 20, 2008, 10:25:09 AM »

the cool & crazy guy
the fallen "judge"
the father
the fallen elder
a lion(?)

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.
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« Reply #376 on: April 20, 2008, 10:34:16 AM »

the cool & crazy guy
the fallen "judge"
the father
the fallen elder
a lion(?)

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.



Context!!!
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« Reply #377 on: April 20, 2008, 10:42:33 AM »

Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 19, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Colombo
I think we know by now that you think the 5th suspect is Paulus.  I am still waiting for the connection to a "cool and crazy" guy that Natalee would be the least interested in being Paulus...he's a dirty old man and I think even Natalee would think that too.  I have tried...but my mind just can't fathom her being interested in him at all...ever.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating



I never  believed Mary was Natalee, because  I do not believe in a million years that  she went willingly with Joran to use drugs, gamble, have sex or whatever.    If Mary in this riddle  is Natalee, then  rolling into the maze just means she went to  party  at C&C's (which is  the maze,  or just "nightlife") and the  lions (predators)    were  there  looking for more than just partying.  I  don't think Joran is the  "lamb"  either.   He didn't  run bleating, and he could never be described as a lamb in any way.  I wonder if this is Guido, or someone  else  that went there that  night and  couldn't bring themselves to participate.  Joran WAS  involved, no way was he  the scapegoat.  MHO




"but it WAS NOT a game"
pg 4, "the game"
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”

lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze
the maze is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

fires are lit ("light the fires"=turn up the heat as in LE)
but now the lamb is a goat

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

complicity to kidnapping(?)





This should have been at the end, not in the middle of the other post.  Sorry!!

I also have a gut feeling that Paulus is probably the 5th, however, something is wrong within the riddle.  Paulus is definitely not a wild or crazy guy from earlier in the week.  This would have to be Steve Croes or Lorenzo as the 5th.  I have thought about Paulus being referred to as a boyfriend.  Maybe he liked Natalee when he met her and wanted the action.  Maybe he was mad that his son got to her first.  Otherwise, he just doesn't fit in the riddle.  He's a crusty old guy.


My thoughts too!  Colombo has never wavered in his opinion about who is his 5th suspect.  The pieces fall into place except for a few things. The only info we have to go on is from Simian...no one else ever talks about a 5th suspect...with Shango there is dirty hand.  Many have said that the 5th suspect and dirty hand are one and the same...not enough to make me believe it yet...still waiting for that proof. 

If Paulus is the 5th suspect I would need to know when was the party?   Was there one at Paulus house that night and who were there (I have thought this out and can fill in blanks here..just can't prove it) that became the alibi for him? The only thing I have seen is the casino video that supposedly has Paulus sitting beside Natalee at the table.   To me, Paulus does not seem like a "cool and crazy" guy.  He seems more like a sick old man looking for a fresh piece of meat for his nightly escapades.  I do not see Natalee interested in him in that video...I only see her being polite.  If she was infatuated with him in any way...why doesn't that show in that video?  I know, I know, some will say it is because that isn't Paulus...yeah right...and that isn't his son he points over to while talking to Natalee either.


I felt that the party CAPS was describing was making more sense than most of what I have read.  I think he was telling us that the gambling/video party was at Matty Apartments, one of several locations where these parties were held.  I think Paulus and some of his friends were there.  Joran arrived with his friends and Natalee.  Maybe Natalee thought she was going to have fun in an after hours Aruban party.  She may have willingly entered the party and then was hit with the drug and raped/video taped.  This would also agree with those who saw her leaving C&Cs fairly sober.  CAPS said it is a 2 hour video.  When Freddy stopped filimng and the party broke up, I think that Paulus/Joran had the responsibility to return Natalee, but at this point there was a problem and something bad had happened.  CAPS came right out and told us that Julia Renfro was there because she is connected to this video business.  CAPS thinks that Natalee is in the pond across the street from Matty Apartments - Manserat. 
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« Reply #378 on: April 20, 2008, 10:45:58 AM »

Rob

I'm not sure of the actual requirements to be a judge.  I thought I read that you do not need a law degree. The requirement might just be a recommendation and fulfilling an "apprenticeship".  He did have a reputation in Boxell so I think he was a lawyer and I would think he would need a legit degree to teach.  For all I know, you could be anything and become a judge...he certainly played one long enough.  I never heard Anita add "in training" to any of her statements. 
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« Reply #379 on: April 20, 2008, 10:53:02 AM »

Rob

I'm not sure of the actual requirements to be a judge.  I thought I read that you do not need a law degree. The requirement might just be a recommendation and fulfilling an "apprenticeship".  He did have a reputation in Boxell so I think he was a lawyer and I would think he would need a legit degree to teach.  For all I know, you could be anything and become a judge...he certainly played one long enough.  I never heard Anita add "in training" to any of her statements. 


I also read that he had a law degree in Boxell.  I don't know though, if a Dutch law degree is the equivalent of ours.  I do think that the riddle is pointing directly at someone's fake degree or a degree that was acquired through cheating.  Do you suppose that Paulus knows about one of the other top judges having a fake degree, and this might be the power that Paulus holds over some judges?
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