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Author Topic: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #3  (Read 582829 times)
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« Reply #400 on: April 20, 2008, 01:45:31 PM »

I think that CAPS was trying to show us that there is a group of people who have poker parties with pornography at three places - Brickell Bay, White House, and Matty's Apartments.  Steve Croes seemed to be the organizer and the person in charge of invitations.  Guido was the dealer of the cards.  Julia is involved and so is Paulus.  They played poker and there were videos made in the next room where the adult men had their fun with prostitutes, young girls, or tourists.  I think from what we found, this is still going on in some of those locations.  I don't think CAPS was describing a big party.  I think he was describing something fairly small and quiet because it's illegal.  With Steve Croes in charge, he had an alibi because others were there with him at his poker party.  Rudy Croes and ALE weren't going to challenge his alibi because....
a. Steve is somehow related to Rudy
b. Julia, Briezen, Paulus, and a few others were there as well as young Sloot and friends.
c. Rudy and ALE know about the porn/poker parties, but they don't do anything.
d. I think it sounds like ALE passed it all off as a private poker party where Steve Croes had an alibi.
e. Supposedly these parties have gone on like this for a long time.  Boys bring the girls to the older men.
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jackb
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« Reply #401 on: April 20, 2008, 01:46:45 PM »

Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 19, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Colombo
I think we know by now that you think the 5th suspect is Paulus.  I am still waiting for the connection to a "cool and crazy" guy that Natalee would be the least interested in being Paulus...he's a dirty old man and I think even Natalee would think that too.  I have tried...but my mind just can't fathom her being interested in him at all...ever.






Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating



I never  believed Mary was Natalee, because  I do not believe in a million years that  she went willingly with Joran to use drugs, gamble, have sex or whatever.    If Mary in this riddle  is Natalee, then  rolling into the maze just means she went to  party  at C&C's (which is  the maze,  or just "nightlife") and the  lions (predators)    were  there  looking for more than just partying.  I  don't think Joran is the  "lamb"  either.   He didn't  run bleating, and he could never be described as a lamb in any way.  I wonder if this is Guido, or someone  else  that went there that  night and  couldn't bring themselves to participate.  Joran WAS  involved, no way was he  the scapegoat.  MHO


I don't believe Mary was NH either.  Jackb
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #402 on: April 20, 2008, 01:59:06 PM »

I think Caps claims that "Mary, not a virign" was Julia Renfro.  That would require us to place her in the casino that night and at the "party" as well. She would also be part of Paulus alibi if he is the 5th person.  Still waiting to see this for sure...and I would really like to see this proof...you have no idea how much I would like to see this...it would bring everything full circle and fill in every blank in the story.  It would take down a lot of people...but there is nothing to make that happen now. Especially now that Julia has her 'get out of jail free" letter from the big guy.  What we need now is new evidence. Something or someone to crack it open a little more and let the light shine on the cockroaches causing them to scurry around even more.
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jackb
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« Reply #403 on: April 20, 2008, 02:09:37 PM »

Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 19, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Colombo
I think we know by now that you think the 5th suspect is Paulus.  I am still waiting for the connection to a "cool and crazy" guy that Natalee would be the least interested in being Paulus...he's a dirty old man and I think even Natalee would think that too.  I have tried...but my mind just can't fathom her being interested in him at all...ever.






Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating



I never  believed Mary was Natalee, because  I do not believe in a million years that  she went willingly with Joran to use drugs, gamble, have sex or whatever.    If Mary in this riddle  is Natalee, then  rolling into the maze just means she went to  party  at C&C's (which is  the maze,  or just "nightlife") and the  lions (predators)    were  there  looking for more than just partying.  I  don't think Joran is the  "lamb"  either.   He didn't  run bleating, and he could never be described as a lamb in any way.  I wonder if this is Guido, or someone  else  that went there that  night and  couldn't bring themselves to participate.  Joran WAS  involved, no way was he  the scapegoat.  MHO




"but it WAS NOT a game"
pg 4, "the game"
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”

lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze
the maze is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

fires are lit ("light the fires"=turn up the heat as in LE)
but now the lamb is a goat

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

complicity to kidnapping(?)


  I hate to say this, but they may have tried to involve VAL in their games and he ran away.  He would be younger and not probably aware of what really goes on.    jackb

Mary had a little lamb but it can be confirmed that the song Mary had a little lamb is American as the words were written by Sarah Hale, of Boston, in 1830. An interesting historical note about this rhyme - the words of Mary had a Little Lamb were the first ever recorded by Thomas Edison, on tin foil, on his phonograph.


Mary had a little lamb

Mary had a little lamb its fleece was white as snow;
And everywhere that Mary went, the lamb was sure to go.
It followed her to school one day, which was against the rule;
It made the children laugh and play, to see a lamb at school.
And so the teacher turned it out, but still it lingered near,
And waited patiently about till Mary did appear.
"Why does the lamb love Mary so?" the eager children cry;
"Why, Mary loves the lamb, you know" the teacher did reply. 

jackb (thought this might trigger a thought.)
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jackb
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« Reply #404 on: April 20, 2008, 02:12:31 PM »

Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 19, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Colombo
I think we know by now that you think the 5th suspect is Paulus.  I am still waiting for the connection to a "cool and crazy" guy that Natalee would be the least interested in being Paulus...he's a dirty old man and I think even Natalee would think that too.  I have tried...but my mind just can't fathom her being interested in him at all...ever.






Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating



I never  believed Mary was Natalee, because  I do not believe in a million years that  she went willingly with Joran to use drugs, gamble, have sex or whatever.    If Mary in this riddle  is Natalee, then  rolling into the maze just means she went to  party  at C&C's (which is  the maze,  or just "nightlife") and the  lions (predators)    were  there  looking for more than just partying.  I  don't think Joran is the  "lamb"  either.   He didn't  run bleating, and he could never be described as a lamb in any way.  I wonder if this is Guido, or someone  else  that went there that  night and  couldn't bring themselves to participate.  Joran WAS  involved, no way was he  the scapegoat.  MHO




"but it WAS NOT a game"
pg 4, "the game"
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”

lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze
the maze is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

fires are lit ("light the fires"=turn up the heat as in LE)
but now the lamb is a goat

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

complicity to kidnapping(?)


  I hate to say this, but they may have tried to involve VAL in their games and he ran away.  He would be younger and not probably aware of what really goes on.    jackb

Mary had a little lamb but it can be confirmed that the song Mary had a little lamb is American as the words were written by Sarah Hale, of Boston, in 1830. An interesting historical note about this rhyme - the words of Mary had a Little Lamb were the first ever recorded by Thomas Edison, on tin foil, on his phonograph.


Mary had a little lamb

Mary had a little lamb its fleece was white as snow;
And everywhere that Mary went, the lamb was sure to go.
It followed her to school one day, which was against the rule;
It made the children laugh and play, to see a lamb at school.
And so the teacher turned it out, but still it lingered near,
And waited patiently about till Mary did appear.
"Why does the lamb love Mary so?" the eager children cry;
"Why, Mary loves the lamb, you know" the teacher did reply. 

jackb (thought this might trigger a thought.)

NOTE:  TURNED IT OUT.
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jackb
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« Reply #405 on: April 20, 2008, 02:18:52 PM »

Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 19, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Colombo
I think we know by now that you think the 5th suspect is Paulus.  I am still waiting for the connection to a "cool and crazy" guy that Natalee would be the least interested in being Paulus...he's a dirty old man and I think even Natalee would think that too.  I have tried...but my mind just can't fathom her being interested in him at all...ever.






Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating



I never  believed Mary was Natalee, because  I do not believe in a million years that  she went willingly with Joran to use drugs, gamble, have sex or whatever.    If Mary in this riddle  is Natalee, then  rolling into the maze just means she went to  party  at C&C's (which is  the maze,  or just "nightlife") and the  lions (predators)    were  there  looking for more than just partying.  I  don't think Joran is the  "lamb"  either.   He didn't  run bleating, and he could never be described as a lamb in any way.  I wonder if this is Guido, or someone  else  that went there that  night and  couldn't bring themselves to participate.  Joran WAS  involved, no way was he  the scapegoat.  MHO


I don't believe Mary was NH either.  Jackb

No, Jackb thinks the 5th suspect is GVC and Palus.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #406 on: April 20, 2008, 02:24:40 PM »

I think that CAPS was trying to show us that there is a group of people who have poker parties with pornography at three places - Brickell Bay, White House, and Matty's Apartments.  Steve Croes seemed to be the organizer and the person in charge of invitations.  Guido was the dealer of the cards.  Julia is involved and so is Paulus.  They played poker and there were videos made in the next room where the adult men had their fun with prostitutes, young girls, or tourists.  I think from what we found, this is still going on in some of those locations.  I don't think CAPS was describing a big party.  I think he was describing something fairly small and quiet because it's illegal.  With Steve Croes in charge, he had an alibi because others were there with him at his poker party.  Rudy Croes and ALE weren't going to challenge his alibi because....
a. Steve is somehow related to Rudy
b. Julia, Briezen, Paulus, and a few others were there as well as young Sloot and friends.
c. Rudy and ALE know about the porn/poker parties, but they don't do anything.
d. I think it sounds like ALE passed it all off as a private poker party where Steve Croes had an alibi.
e. Supposedly these parties have gone on like this for a long time.  Boys bring the girls to the older men.

Very little proof...not enough to say this is a fact...can't prove a negative so I guess we are still at the beginning...searching and looking for anything that would make sense.  Steve Croes is related to AG...but I doubt that he is Hendrick, Jr.  Steve Croes lives like a pauper compared to Rudy...if you were close to this family would you allow yourself live like Steve does?  I am not going to continue to argue that point...it is not worth it at all.  If he came out and said Steve Croes is my son, nephew, or anything else what good would that do at this point? The deed is done...Joran has confessed and released everyone of any guilt except himself and Daury.  Now Daury is in custody in USA.

Tylergal has talked about these parties for years now and had much evidence of the dirty old men's club and the goings on. She has a bead on this stuff from the first week.  Little is new in this scenario and it's quite distressing to those of us that want to see justice come to Natalee and her family.  Unless, the FBI steps in and throws us a bone I fear nothing is going to happen.  Oh to find her body or a shoe or some clothing or anything that would ramp up the investigation.  Apparently, Mos could not or would not use any of the evidence DeVries offered him and here we sit...still...waiting and wondering who was Simian and is Shango for real? We should not drink the kool aid just because it is offered in a golden chalice with ice.
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jackb
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« Reply #407 on: April 20, 2008, 02:27:49 PM »

Rob

I'm not sure of the actual requirements to be a judge.  I thought I read that you do not need a law degree. The requirement might just be a recommendation and fulfilling an "apprenticeship".  He did have a reputation in Boxell so I think he was a lawyer and I would think he would need a legit degree to teach.  For all I know, you could be anything and become a judge...he certainly played one long enough.  I never heard Anita add "in training" to any of her statements. 

Mary had a little lamb but it can be confirmed that the song Mary had a little lamb is American as the words were written by Sarah Hale, of Boston, in 1830. An interesting historical note about this rhyme - the words of Mary had a Little Lamb were the first ever recorded by Thomas Edison, on tin foil, on his phonograph.


Mary had a little lamb

Mary had a little lamb its fleece was white as snow;
And everywhere that Mary went, the lamb was sure to go.
It followed her to school one day, which was against the rule;
It made the children laugh and play, to see a lamb at school.
And so the teacher turned it out, but still it lingered near,
And waited patiently about till Mary did appear.
"Why does the lamb love Mary so?" the eager children cry;
"Why, Mary loves the lamb, you know" the teacher did reply.
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« Reply #408 on: April 20, 2008, 04:32:21 PM »

Quote from: Lala'sMom on April 19, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Colombo
I think we know by now that you think the 5th suspect is Paulus.  I am still waiting for the connection to a "cool and crazy" guy that Natalee would be the least interested in being Paulus...he's a dirty old man and I think even Natalee would think that too.  I have tried...but my mind just can't fathom her being interested in him at all...ever.






Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder.
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze
to play with lions
but it was not a game
the lamb ran bleating



I never  believed Mary was Natalee, because  I do not believe in a million years that  she went willingly with Joran to use drugs, gamble, have sex or whatever.    If Mary in this riddle  is Natalee, then  rolling into the maze just means she went to  party  at C&C's (which is  the maze,  or just "nightlife") and the  lions (predators)    were  there  looking for more than just partying.  I  don't think Joran is the  "lamb"  either.   He didn't  run bleating, and he could never be described as a lamb in any way.  I wonder if this is Guido, or someone  else  that went there that  night and  couldn't bring themselves to participate.  Joran WAS  involved, no way was he  the scapegoat.  MHO




"but it WAS NOT a game"
pg 4, "the game"
http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf
Both pimps and prostitutes generally referred to their activities as “the game.”

lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze
the maze is difficult for the supposed guilty, even if innocent

fires are lit ("light the fires"=turn up the heat as in LE)
but now the lamb is a goat

The fallen judge and the singing card are of the same hand, but it is dangerous for the Arawaks to play it, because everyone would hear, including the cowboys

Simian Says: June 24th, 2005 at 2:50 pm
This is bad. Really bad…He has a history of making himself be something he is not.

complicity to kidnapping(?)


  I hate to say this, but they may have tried to involve VAL in their games and he ran away.  He would be younger and not probably aware of what really goes on.    jackb

Interesting thought that Joran is NOT the "lamb".  I don't see him as a lamb either.  But it's so easy to assume he's the lamb.  Joran is seriously psychologically changelled...it doesn't seem like his personality is the type to run bleating...and "whatever" Paulus has on others, it's kept both Joran and Paulus out of jail, even after all this time.  Could it have been Satish?
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Puzzler - that which puzzles or perplexes; anything that arouses curiosity or perplexes because it is unexplained, inexplicable or secret.
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« Reply #409 on: April 20, 2008, 04:46:53 PM »

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
Prepare the fires.
We need a sacrifice
A babylonian beast. Young Lamb der Sloot
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« Reply #410 on: April 20, 2008, 04:48:04 PM »

The lamb is scared
The fires are lit
But now the lamb is a goat

A sacrifice will be made
to spare the polis
to spare the teepees
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sirensong
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« Reply #411 on: April 20, 2008, 05:09:39 PM »

I always wondered  what this said, so here is translation:

DVD LAND & CD 
 
Business address CATIRI 7-A, NOORD 
Legal form  SOLE OWNERSHIP 
Name of the company  DVD LAND & CD 
Date of commencement  1 JUNE 2003 
     
   
OWNERS/PARTNERS 
 
ARENDS, FREDERICK JACINTHUS;   
Residing in  CATIRI 7-A, NOORD, ARUBA 
Born in  ARUBA on 27 JANUARY 1959 
Nationality  DUTCH 
Position  OWNER 
Effective  3 APRIL 2003 
Authority  FULL 
   
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY 
 
A. HET VERKOPEN EN VERHUREN VAN DVD'S EN CD'S.
B. DE KLEINHANDEL IN ELECTRISCHE- EN ELECTRONISCHE APPARATEN EN ARTIKELEN.
C. HET EXPLOITEREN VAN EEN FILMPRODUKTIE-, VIDEOPRODUKTIE-, FOTOGRAFISCH-, EN AUDIO-, GRAFISCHBEDRIJF;
D. HET IN VERBAND MET HET VORENSTAANDE EXPLOITEREN VAN EEN RECLAME BUREAU;
C. HET ADVISEREN EN VERLENEN VAN DIENSTEN IN VERBAND MET HET VORENSTAANDE. 
   
Only valid if accordingly signed by the Chamber of Commerce & Industry Aruba - J.E. Irausquin Blvd.10, Oranjestad, Aruba.

Translation:
 
THE SELLING AND RENT VAN DVD AND CD. B.  DE KLEINHANDEL IN ELECTRISCHE- AND ELECTRONIC DEVICES AND ARTICLES.  C.  THE EXPLOITING VAN A FILMPRODUKTIE-, VIDEOPRODUKTIE-, PHOTOGRAPHIC, AND AUDIO-, GRAFISCHBEDRIJF; D.  THE IN CONNECTION WITH THE VORENSTAANDE EXPLOIT VAN
AN ADVERTISING DESK; C.  THE ADVISING AND GRANT VAN SERVICES IN CONNECTION WITH THE VORENSTAANDE

Interesting, does this mean an actual Van  is involved?

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sirensong
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« Reply #412 on: April 20, 2008, 05:14:37 PM »

Nevermind, no it doesn't  mean an actual van.   

I wonder why Jossy is so quiet. 
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« Reply #413 on: April 20, 2008, 06:17:14 PM »

   CAPS has led us to the pond across from Matty's Apartments, Shango seems to have led us there, and from the beginning there have been hints pointing toward this location.  CAPS says that he gave Tim and John all of this information before they left Aruba.  OE confirmed with photographs that they scanned the bottom of this pond.  OE didn't say whether he saw anything after reviewing the scans.  I feel like we are at a stand still right now.  Does anyone have any idea what is going on with TES?  Should we be out trying to encourage money and contributions for a return to Aruba? I can't help but think that our best direction right now is to check that pond and the other sites that were identified by Peristence.  At least there will be forward movement.  We are going to continue to tread water until we find something in terms of solid evidence or one of the party boys starts to sing.  Sometimes I get so frustrated just thinking of the arrogance that those low lifes have while they are sitting back and watching us.  They know all the details and they are completely off the hook.  It irritates me that Patrick has claimed to have solved the case, but you must wait until his book is published for his answer.  To me, that is outrageous.  This is a tragedy, not a game.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #414 on: April 20, 2008, 06:25:16 PM »

   CAPS has led us to the pond across from Matty's Apartments, Shango seems to have led us there, and from the beginning there have been hints pointing toward this location.  CAPS says that he gave Tim and John all of this information before they left Aruba.  OE confirmed with photographs that they scanned the bottom of this pond.  OE didn't say whether he saw anything after reviewing the scans.  I feel like we are at a stand still right now.  Does anyone have any idea what is going on with TES?  Should we be out trying to encourage money and contributions for a return to Aruba? I can't help but think that our best direction right now is to check that pond and the other sites that were identified by Peristence.  At least there will be forward movement.  We are going to continue to tread water until we find something in terms of solid evidence or one of the party boys starts to sing.  Sometimes I get so frustrated just thinking of the arrogance that those low lifes have while they are sitting back and watching us.  They know all the details and they are completely off the hook.  It irritates me that Patrick has claimed to have solved the case, but you must wait until his book is published for his answer.  To me, that is outrageous.  This is a tragedy, not a game.


Hey,there is a strike going on down there!  You need to get your priorities straight.  What are you thinking? LOL

Joking aside, sometimes patience and silence can be a good thing..it could mean that someone is planning something.  Patience grasshopper... Wink
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« Reply #415 on: April 20, 2008, 07:30:19 PM »

   CAPS has led us to the pond across from Matty's Apartments, Shango seems to have led us there, and from the beginning there have been hints pointing toward this location.  CAPS says that he gave Tim and John all of this information before they left Aruba.  OE confirmed with photographs that they scanned the bottom of this pond.  OE didn't say whether he saw anything after reviewing the scans.  I feel like we are at a stand still right now.  Does anyone have any idea what is going on with TES?  Should we be out trying to encourage money and contributions for a return to Aruba? I can't help but think that our best direction right now is to check that pond and the other sites that were identified by Peristence.  At least there will be forward movement.  We are going to continue to tread water until we find something in terms of solid evidence or one of the party boys starts to sing.  Sometimes I get so frustrated just thinking of the arrogance that those low lifes have while they are sitting back and watching us.  They know all the details and they are completely off the hook.  It irritates me that Patrick has claimed to have solved the case, but you must wait until his book is published for his answer.  To me, that is outrageous.  This is a tragedy, not a game.


Hey,there is a strike going on down there!  You need to get your priorities straight.  What are you thinking? LOL

Joking aside, sometimes patience and silence can be a good thing..it could mean that someone is planning something.  Patience grasshopper... Wink




You're right, now what could I have been thinking???? 
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All Prayers Will Be Answered in Time!


« Reply #416 on: April 20, 2008, 07:51:31 PM »

Yep....Silence is Golden! 
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In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
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All Prayers Will Be Answered in Time!


« Reply #417 on: April 20, 2008, 07:53:52 PM »

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
Prepare the fires.
We need a sacrifice
A babylonian beast. Young Lamb der Sloot
I'm just going to throw this out there...Colombo are You meaning Sabastian Van Der Sloot was the lamb and Joran is the goat? 
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In God We Trust!
Prayers Will Bring Natalee Home!
May 2010 Bring Natalee Home to Rest In Peace!
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« Reply #418 on: April 20, 2008, 09:43:43 PM »

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
Prepare the fires.
We need a sacrifice
A babylonian beast. Young Lamb der Sloot
I'm just going to throw this out there...Colombo are You meaning Sabastian Van Der Sloot was the lamb and Joran is the goat? 




quoting Puzzler:
"Interesting thought that Joran is NOT the "lamb".  I don't see him as a lamb either.  But it's so easy to assume he's the lamb.  Joran is seriously psychologically changelled...it doesn't seem like his personality is the type to run bleating...and "whatever" Paulus has on others, it's kept both Joran and Paulus out of jail, even after all this time.  Could it have been Satish?"


quoting Shango:

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
Prepare the fires.
We need a sacrifice
A babylonian beast. Young Lamb der Sloot
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COLOMBO
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« Reply #419 on: April 20, 2008, 09:46:05 PM »

re: goat

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys.
All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat.
The gods are talking
DirtyHand is alive and well
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