Natalee Case Discussion #748 4/17 - 4/24/08

[Dayhiker]

Thanks for the welcome.

Patrick told in interviews he was interested in the Natalee case from the start. When Patrick met Joran in a Dutch casino he made this plan. As far as I know Patrick went to the police first, but the police was not interested because they are not allowed to work the way Patrick was going to do. After that Patrick went to Peter. It is known that Peter was investigating the Natalee case from the start and did not want to let go without an answer. It is also known that Peter was convinced that Joran and his father knew more about the disappearance of Natalee, so it is quite obvious that Patrick went to Peter when Patrick found out that the police could not work with him.

I have seen the tapes too. Patrick is not a detective and it is always a risk Joran would find out. By the end of the tapes one can see that Joran gets bored with the questions. It is very understandable that Peter and Patrick decided to stop.
The tape is better than nothing. Joran told in the tape he knew that Natalee definitely never comes back. How can Joran be so sure about this?

Why would Patrick make a tape like that?

Aruba is not a very big island so it is very well possible that he had heard of the family. Joran was a very young boy by then. Sorry I don not believe the story. Patrick has the right to try and protect the inhabitants of Aruba, of course.

I respect your opinion Briany and agree wholeheartedly the tape is better than nothing. I think the taping Joran was brilliant. If nothing else it got Hans Mos to jack the investigation back up with a sizable amount of detectives working on the case rather than the four it had been whittled down to. I do not believe from what I saw on the tapes that Joran was under any pressure or looked suspicious of Patrick. He looked to me like he could have yakked on for several hours longer, something he is quite good at, and further more valuable information could have been mined.

[MumInOhio]

GBMW ... thank you for your heartfelt post.  However ... you are right ... we will have to agree to disagree on several aspects of your post.

I believe that the only part of the "confession" that rings true is the "shaking".  That the the only part of the "confession" that can be backed up.

Jug and Beth were questioned by the Dennis Jacobs on June 1, 2005 in regards to Natalee and seizures.  Joran's May 31, 2005 witness statement was destroyed ... WHY?

EVERYTHING ELSE HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE A LIE!

How can Joran be charged with "disposing of a body".  A seventeen year old young man does not have theexpertise/  qualifications to determine death.

Also ... if it is believed that Joran acted alone ... then the gardeners observation/testimony is negated.  Freddy's witness statements regarding both the shaking and the involvement of Deepak and Satish are negated.  The Superior Court's ruling that Paulus did declare to the Twitty Group that he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 4:00 AM on the morning Natalee Holloway went missing.

GBMW ... I believe that the video recording "confession" is all an elaborate scheme ... all about implicating "only" Joran and ... distancing the Kalpoes who can implicate Paulus ... distancing the Pimps who can implicate Paulus ... distancing those who assisted Paulus in moving Natalee's body on the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... distancing those in the Dutch/Aruban administration/judiciary who were aware of or involved in the coverup that has denied Natalee Holloway justice.

I will spare you the backup quotes unless you want me to post them.  I would be more than happy to do that.

Janet

Thanks Janet, but I believe you 

The statement of Joran is probably missing / destroyed for a good reason . If that happened; no doubt that there will be one if this case goes to court...just not one that has been made on 31st of may 2005 but a bit later on....jmo.

I don't think the confession is a scheme; Peter R. de Vries wouldn't have done that....he uses unusual sources sometimes but he's doing things with the right intentions. He has his heart in the right place. Yes, if he only thought of the case he would have handled things differently; but he's not a cop...he's in television. The idea he would cooperate in such a scheme is beyond words for me....I really don't believe it.

And Patrick might have made some mistakes when it comes to his questioning....I think he did a great job. The pressure he had been under, afraid Joran would find out, not trying to cross the line so Joran would shut up. I could imagine he was on edge while the confession was going on. I'll cut him some slack for his screw ups 


You are right about your comment about Joran and the disposal of a body - the charge. However the judges wanted more back up evidence for this than the confession....Joran stated he lied (and thus didn't confess) so it's up to the ALE to proof Joran wrong. I assume that's a difficult job since it's been almost 3 years & well...you know...Joran knows how to make up a story 

If Freddie wasn't there that night he got his story from Joran...and Joran had every reason in the world to include Deepak & Satish in his storyline
If Deepak & Satish are innocent (when it comes to the dissapearance / murder itself of course..they did lie for Joran & have a responsibility when it comes to having some blame because if they told the truth crucial evidence might have been found...well the whole case would have been different probably) they have been able to do some hard time thinking the last couple of weeks.
The Kalpoes might want to open up a bit more since the confession...but they still live on Aruba & have a lot to loose. And even then...it's still their word against Paulus & his buddies....I'm hoping for the best but I'm afraid they will stay on the safe side (and couldn't really blame them...well maybe a bit...but then again I've never been in their situation). It is weird they haven't been heard / seen given a statement / quote about the confession....or am I wrong about that & did I miss something?

I think Paulus' ass will always be covered (whatever his involvement has been).....by his son, his buddies at the ALE & the fear of the Kalpoe Brothers & ?????.

And when it comes to Patrick knowing the van der Sloots....7 years? Where did that come from?  What he meant in the conversation with Pontje was that he knew about he case for years...not the van der Sloots. Where did the 7 years come from? Is this from something else? A different interview / quote?

Living on Aruba near the Kalpoes? When did this happen? Years and years ago? Patrick has been around in Arnhem for a long time already...that's information coming from people that live in / around Arnhem.
Doesn't explain the information but Patrick did say he has family there; maybe there are more van der Eems or there is another reason for it...but for now I will take Patrick's word for it & assume my friends aren't crazy 
Ah well Janet....I really don't know what to think or to believe....sometimes I think: just send them all to Guantanamo Bay & let those interrogators do their job....and I'm shocked that I would think that way even for a split second.

Hi GBMW..You will need to read back from page 4 until this morning to make any sense of the above in red...though I am still trying...LOL

[GBMW]

April 19th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Jorik said:

Hi Patrick,

I just noticed Justice for Natlee claims you’ve known the van der Sloots for 7 years and lived near the Kalpoes….and you didn’t respond to that…is that true? I doubt it but since you didn’t comment on it at all…..a bit weird.
Greetings,
Jorik

PATRICK’S RESPONSE
Total nonsense. Probably coming from this Casto tape. Funny how they believe that stuff, coz he is known as one of their biggest enemies if they really would care for Natalee. I start to doubt more and more the other information these people spread around. As far as the Kalpoe brothers go, they must have been in their nappies when I left Aruba.


     I actually have to chuckle with this one.  Isn't it interesting that as soon as we started commenting about no denial from Patrick, "Jorik" suddenly posted something on Patrick's blog. 
     If you read Patrick's response very carefully, he still doesn't deny that he has known the Sloots for years.  CAPS never said that they were friends.  CAPS said that Patrick knew the Sloots.  He also used our statements as a way to further discredit Castro, when Castro had nothing to do with this.  The address that came from the registry was from 2005.  The Kalpoe's weren't in Nappies when they took after Natalee.  I don't know how long one has to stay in Aruba to register. 

Or maybe Jorik just read the post above his posting and wanted to ask Patrick about it?  Not everything happens with the intent to mislead, cover up or give false information.

[johan555]

goodmorning all

[GBMW]

goodmorning all

Goedemorgen Johan....nou ja..goedemiddag!

[ldstlou]

And why did Joran nor his father mention this straight after the show? 

This information looks like a new attack with disinformation.

Welcome Briany!

Patrick did a service for the case by opening up Joran's fat mouth and letting the world know what a worthless bastard he is. Many people think much less of him than they already did. However, before he goes cracking walnuts with his ass (thank you Sam Peckinpah) he needs to put his role in perspective. For starters, he has not "solved the case" as he claims. Last time I checked Joran was still running free and the judge wouldn't even arrest him. Patrick hasn't solved jack shit.

Secondly, if he is so friggin' stupid that he can't see the corruption that has gone on in Aruba I don't see that he is smart enough to get out of bed in the morning, much less solve a case.

Look at the tapes. There are much sharper questions he could have asked Joran, but he didn't. He could have gotten much more information by asking a few wiser questions, but he didn't. I appreciate him for getting what he got out of Joran, but a really intelligent person could have done a hell of a lot better.

Thanks for the welcome.

Patrick told in interviews he was interested in the Natalee case from the start. When Patrick met Joran in a Dutch casino he made this plan. As far as I know Patrick went to the police first, but the police was not interested because they are not allowed to work the way Patrick was going to do. After that Patrick went to Peter. It is known that Peter was investigating the Natalee case from the start and did not want to let go without an answer. It is also known that Peter was convinced that Joran and his father knew more about the disappearance of Natalee, so it is quite obvious that Patrick went to Peter when Patrick found out that the police could not work with him.

I have seen the tapes too. Patrick is not a detective and it is always a risk Joran would find out. By the end of the tapes one can see that Joran gets bored with the questions. It is very understandable that Peter and Patrick decided to stop.
The tape is better than nothing. Joran told in the tape he knew that Natalee definitely never comes back. How can Joran be so sure about this?

Why would Patrick make a tape like that?

Aruba is not a very big island so it is very well possible that he had heard of the family. Joran was a very young boy by then. Sorry I don not believe the story. Patrick has the right to try and protect the inhabitants of Aruba, of course.

Hi all,

one question to ask your self.

Why in all the interviews tapes that I review this week of Scareface (Patric), he never asked about the cops or asked Joran why did you not call the Police ?

Answer:


In 2002 Patrick brother open a water sport business in Aruba. Trough his brother in 2003 he knew Joran already and his dad and Famaly in Holland.

in holland he lives 15 min drive from the sloot town. He lives in a trailer park. He was a business and knew the sloot Famaly all the time. they allways where friends in Holland.

To find these info, you have to go and search in Dutch for info about these people. There is alot good info about Scareface.

Now one more question:

Patrick called Joran "Maton" means Killer, but if we are friends for a long time, this is welcome, and even both of them knowings that one of them did not do it. So who did it between them, Joran did not do it, he is the scapegoad. The Gesture was welkome to Joran. But Joran can not call him (Patrick) a Moton (Killer) becuase this will be exposing to much of patrick. There is a saying that the real killer will always call the one that did not do notting a killer as a Joke.

Remember there is the Sacrefice and their is the sacrefice. both are persons, one is a Person that will sit-in for the real scarefice (Killer)

 

To call someone a Moton is an insult. but only a friend that has killed before can use that 

CapsLockWizard,

First of all: when someone gets "sick" you call an ambulance, not the police. Patrick asked several times, why did'nt you check she was alive? Why did you do this? Things like that.

Furthermore: if I live in a village or small town it is not strange that my family also lives there.
The fact that Patrick was known on the Island is the reason that he was able to get in touch with Joran.
If you want to believe all the stories about "scarface" from just everybody, you might as well believe all the stories which have been told about Natalee's mother.

The stories are similar and do not make sense.

That my opnion.

Welcome Briany!!!
I agree with you. I think Patrick's tapes are very legitimate. Hindsight is 20/20, it's easy to look at the tapes now and ask why he didn't say this, or ask that...he did the best he could in the moment..imho.
I think what is happening is the arrogance that Patrick shows now, is starting to cloud our good judgement on what a great deed he did with those tapes...but in all honesty, only someone as arrogant as Patrick could have jumped in that car and drove him around for 5 months trying to extract the truth. Every trait has a positive and a negative impact on people in different scenarios. Patrick is what he is, he rubbed me wrong with his comments and letter on the Boycott and protests, by I am trying to separate that from what he did with joran and the tapes, but it is that same arrogance that also caused him to become involved in the case and get joran to confess what he did. Is it the whole truth? We all know it isn't, but I think it is clearly a big chunk of the truth, eveidenced by the questions Jug and Beth were asked immediately about Natalee's medical history. I think it does bring Beth and her family and friends some peace, I think it definately brings Beth some vindication, because as she said, THAT is the joran she knew...the one in the tapes, and now the rest of the world knows.
I also firmly believe joran never had any idea he was being taped. My opinion only, all I have to do is look at the interviews he did as compared to those tapes...his true colors came out in thosed taped recordings. For that I am very thankfor to Patrick.

I thought alot about Patrick's responses to the protests and boycott...he responded to two of my e-mails...deleted another..lol...and his responses really worked me up!!! But I think that we and Patrick know two different sides of Aruba. I believe he is very sincere in his defense of Aruba because he knows the everyday people of Aruba and they are good to him. We are sincere in our dislike and distrust of Aruba, and we all know the reasons for that!! I will respect Patrick's defense of Aruba although I will never buy it and will continue to protest at travel shows. I am very dissappointed he did not show me the same respect, but I can't take away what he did to move this case again with those tapes.

[ldstlou]

sorry for all the misspellings!! Haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet!! Lil

[ldstlou]

sorry for all the misspellings!! Haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet!! Lil

did it again!!! LOL...I won't post again until my eyes are fully open!!

[GBMW]

GBMW ... thank you for your heartfelt post.  However ... you are right ... we will have to agree to disagree on several aspects of your post.

I believe that the only part of the "confession" that rings true is the "shaking".  That the the only part of the "confession" that can be backed up.

Jug and Beth were questioned by the Dennis Jacobs on June 1, 2005 in regards to Natalee and seizures.  Joran's May 31, 2005 witness statement was destroyed ... WHY?

EVERYTHING ELSE HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE A LIE!

How can Joran be charged with "disposing of a body".  A seventeen year old young man does not have theexpertise/  qualifications to determine death.

Also ... if it is believed that Joran acted alone ... then the gardeners observation/testimony is negated.  Freddy's witness statements regarding both the shaking and the involvement of Deepak and Satish are negated.  The Superior Court's ruling that Paulus did declare to the Twitty Group that he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 4:00 AM on the morning Natalee Holloway went missing.

GBMW ... I believe that the video recording "confession" is all an elaborate scheme ... all about implicating "only" Joran and ... distancing the Kalpoes who can implicate Paulus ... distancing the Pimps who can implicate Paulus ... distancing those who assisted Paulus in moving Natalee's body on the morning of May 30, 2005 and ... distancing those in the Dutch/Aruban administration/judiciary who were aware of or involved in the coverup that has denied Natalee Holloway justice.

I will spare you the backup quotes unless you want me to post them.  I would be more than happy to do that.

Janet

Thanks Janet, but I believe you 

The statement of Joran is probably missing / destroyed for a good reason . If that happened; no doubt that there will be one if this case goes to court...just not one that has been made on 31st of may 2005 but a bit later on....jmo.

I don't think the confession is a scheme; Peter R. de Vries wouldn't have done that....he uses unusual sources sometimes but he's doing things with the right intentions. He has his heart in the right place. Yes, if he only thought of the case he would have handled things differently; but he's not a cop...he's in television. The idea he would cooperate in such a scheme is beyond words for me....I really don't believe it.

And Patrick might have made some mistakes when it comes to his questioning....I think he did a great job. The pressure he had been under, afraid Joran would find out, not trying to cross the line so Joran would shut up. I could imagine he was on edge while the confession was going on. I'll cut him some slack for his screw ups 


You are right about your comment about Joran and the disposal of a body - the charge. However the judges wanted more back up evidence for this than the confession....Joran stated he lied (and thus didn't confess) so it's up to the ALE to proof Joran wrong. I assume that's a difficult job since it's been almost 3 years & well...you know...Joran knows how to make up a story 

If Freddie wasn't there that night he got his story from Joran...and Joran had every reason in the world to include Deepak & Satish in his storyline
If Deepak & Satish are innocent (when it comes to the dissapearance / murder itself of course..they did lie for Joran & have a responsibility when it comes to having some blame because if they told the truth crucial evidence might have been found...well the whole case would have been different probably) they have been able to do some hard time thinking the last couple of weeks.
The Kalpoes might want to open up a bit more since the confession...but they still live on Aruba & have a lot to loose. And even then...it's still their word against Paulus & his buddies....I'm hoping for the best but I'm afraid they will stay on the safe side (and couldn't really blame them...well maybe a bit...but then again I've never been in their situation). It is weird they haven't been heard / seen given a statement / quote about the confession....or am I wrong about that & did I miss something?

I think Paulus' ass will always be covered (whatever his involvement has been).....by his son, his buddies at the ALE & the fear of the Kalpoe Brothers & ?????.

And when it comes to Patrick knowing the van der Sloots....7 years? Where did that come from?  What he meant in the conversation with Pontje was that he knew about he case for years...not the van der Sloots. Where did the 7 years come from? Is this from something else? A different interview / quote?

Living on Aruba near the Kalpoes? When did this happen? Years and years ago? Patrick has been around in Arnhem for a long time already...that's information coming from people that live in / around Arnhem.
Doesn't explain the information but Patrick did say he has family there; maybe there are more van der Eems or there is another reason for it...but for now I will take Patrick's word for it & assume my friends aren't crazy 
Ah well Janet....I really don't know what to think or to believe....sometimes I think: just send them all to Guantanamo Bay & let those interrogators do their job....and I'm shocked that I would think that way even for a split second.

Hi GBMW..You will need to read back from page 4 until this morning to make any sense of the above in red...though I am still trying...LOL

Thanks, have been reading the posts just now. And I still believe Patrick has known Joran only since the summer of 2007.

Knowing each other longer / for years, this confession being a big scheme......well to me that's just absurd.

[Buckeye]

GBMW, Dayhiker, briany

I agree with your posts.

I don't think Patrick is the brightest light in the forest.  It would have made sense to ask Joran followup questions.  Patrick responds to points, on his blog, with the same answers.  He seems to have a problem with listening and discussing. He thinks he has all the answers, already.  A lot can be missed with that kind of thinking.

[Buckeye]

Other things were brought up, in the taping.  Paulus and the cell phone, the deal with compensation and all the smoking would have been hedged or not brought up, at all, if Joran was in on it.  Image was everything to Joran (and Anita).  I just don't believe they would have planned this display.

[ldstlou]

ok...STILL not forgetting the good deeds Patrick did...but comments like these really cause me to lose respect.
From Patrick's latest post:

One thing I overlooked from the beginning though. I actually, yes it is silly of me, never realized that the name scared monkeys, is meant to be racist. When I first saw it and their logo I thought it was creative. Only later I realized that they probably refer to how they see people in Aruba. Does anybody knows how they got that name? Now I think it is a little ironic. Coz all these isolationalist who are scared of the big bad world outside the USA, well, do I have to say more. Or was it really meant like irony and do they mean themselves. How is it? I hate racism.

Of course I do not believe “the government” of Aruba or “the autorities of Aruba” organized a cover-up. The only thing I can say is that some of them did not react very sensitive and said things which hurt Beth and Dave and all people in the world who are shocked when a young girl’s life ends like this. About a cover-up of the people who have a direct interest in the case, or when it is about spreading manipulative information, like Castro duid about the case and about me, well, there I can imagine people are unhappy. But that is the action of those people.

Oh, and Jason, I’m not afraid of anybody, so don’t worry. I can take care of myself.

Greetings,

Patrick

[/i][/color]

[ldstlou]

AAAHHHHHH!!! Pulling my hair out now in frustration!!!

EXCELLENT post by Justice for Natalee!!! Absolutely terrific!!
Patrick's response..same old sheet we have been hearing for 3 years. Those opposed to a boycott can't even get creatice!! Just throw out the same old same old...crime in US...blah, blah, blah...but when I saw the comment that suggested if Natalee had been black she never would have gotten the coverage she did....well...all I can say is:
MEET ME IN DC....NO JUSTICE FOR NATALEE, NO TOURISTS FOR ARUBA....MEET ME IN DC....NO JUSTICE FOR NATALEE NO TOURISTS FOR ARUBA...MEET ME IN DC

April 18th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

Justice for Natalee Holloway said:


Patrick, Like so many posters from Aruba you are very quick to point out that the US has crime. You are absolutely correct, Patrick, the US has a lot of crime, but this is not about the US. It’s about Aruba. This is a diversion tactic that you and your fellow Arubans put forth in an attempt to change the focus from the Natalee crime to general crime in the US. It simply isn’t about us this time, it’s all about Aruba. Aruba is responsible for the corruption and the coverup that followed the horrific disappearance of a promising young American woman who chose to celebrate a significant event in her life on your island. The way in which her disappearance has been handled is deplorable. After three years, we continue to learn of the depth of the corruption and coverup. It would most assuredly be a valuable learning experience for you to read the many hours of research and documentation of corruption and a coverup that exists at the scared monkey site. I am confident though, that you are already aware of this and you have probably personally experienced much of what we have put forth about corruption and coverups.
Contrary to the implications that you have made, we are not ignorant enough to believe that we hold every man. woman, and child on Happy Island directly responsible for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. It’s insulting that you would even suggest this. We do know that those who are directly responsible have been protected. We have no way to break through this web of protection with only our voices and requests. Our boycott of Aruba is intended to force the citizens of Aruba to demand what they already know should be the right actions from their government. Three years of pleas for justice have been to no avail. Perhaps by affecting the personal bank accounts of the Aruban citizens, we will finally see the culmination of our demands for justice. The Aruban people have certainly been quite vocal of late in demanding salary and overtime increases. Perhaps they will eventually also demand justice and right actions. Our basic requests are not at all outrageous. We are asking for honor and truth. These are two human rights that should be afforded to everyone on your island whether they are Aurban or foreign tourists.
We are appreciative of your efforts to expose Joran van der Sloot. We were supportive of you when you met with resistance on your recent trip to Aruba. You have most certainly been effective in keeping this crime and Joran, himself, in the media. We celebrate that your actions have most assuredly brought a great deal of stress and discomfort to the perpetrators. We also accept that as an Aruban it is most likely painful for you to witness any financial loss to your island. However, you must also be cognizant of the fact that we did not create the Natalee Holloway incident. Aruban/Dutch people created this problem and it is Aruba who must step forward with the correct resolution. Until this happens, we will continue to boycott your Happy Island for what was done to Natalee Holloway, for what was done to her parents, and for what has been done to other American tourists who have ventured onto your island.
We want justice, Patrick, and we will not stop until it is delivered by the government and people of Aruba. We will continue to boycott your island and I have no doubt that you would do the same if this had happened to a Dutch or Aruban girl on the streets of the US. Your pompous statements will only serve to fuel our anger and our resolve. I am sincerely disappointed to learn that you have known the van der Sloots for seven years, lived across the street from the Kalpoes, and staged the entire video with your friend Joran. You should be ashamed of yourself. I, for one, will not be purchasing your volume of fiction and I have no intention of stopping my boycott of Aruba.

RESPONSE PATRICK

Dear Mr or Mrs. Smith

I don’t see any new point of view in this that has not already been discussed. But you had not posted yet, so I give you some space. I notice again that you are also one of these scared monkeys who have consipracy on the top of their minds. It is not a diversion tactic and I don’t have fellow Arubans I even spoke with this about. Of course it is important to realize that a kid - just as example - lives in a far more dangerous world in the USA as far as crime goes, than in France, or Germany… or Aruba. In the sense of a call for a boycott that says all. Cover-ups, corruption and bad actions of dirty authorities also happen in the States. Let me say it very simple, if Natalee would have been black for instance the media would have not paid that much - if any - attention. Also that happens in your own country many times. Focus on your own faults, I have already focused on the one that happened 3 years ago in Aruba and I’m still working on it.
For the rest, see Soph, she all summed it up correctly.

Greetings

[/i]

[GBMW]

Other things were brought up, in the taping.  Paulus and the cell phone, the deal with compensation and all the smoking would have been hedged or not brought up, at all, if Joran was in on it.  Image was everything to Joran (and Anita).  I just don't believe they would have planned this display.

Good point Buckeye! A scheme isn't likely at all....and why would they have done it anyway? The case was closed since december 2007! Joran & everyone else involved in the case got away with it.....at least that's what they thought 

[SS]

AAAHHHHHH!!! Pulling my hair out now in frustration!!!

EXCELLENT post by Justice for Natalee!!! Absolutely terrific!!
Patrick's response..same old sheet we have been hearing for 3 years. Those opposed to a boycott can't even get creatice!! Just throw out the same old same old...crime in US...blah, blah, blah...but when I saw the comment that suggested if Natalee had been black she never would have gotten the coverage she did....well...all I can say is:
MEET ME IN DC....NO JUSTICE FOR NATALEE, NO TOURISTS FOR ARUBA....MEET ME IN DC....NO JUSTICE FOR NATALEE NO TOURISTS FOR ARUBA...MEET ME IN DC

April 18th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

Justice for Natalee Holloway said:


Patrick, Like so many posters from Aruba you are very quick to point out that the US has crime. You are absolutely correct, Patrick, the US has a lot of crime, but this is not about the US. It’s about Aruba. This is a diversion tactic that you and your fellow Arubans put forth in an attempt to change the focus from the Natalee crime to general crime in the US. It simply isn’t about us this time, it’s all about Aruba. Aruba is responsible for the corruption and the coverup that followed the horrific disappearance of a promising young American woman who chose to celebrate a significant event in her life on your island. The way in which her disappearance has been handled is deplorable. After three years, we continue to learn of the depth of the corruption and coverup. It would most assuredly be a valuable learning experience for you to read the many hours of research and documentation of corruption and a coverup that exists at the scared monkey site. I am confident though, that you are already aware of this and you have probably personally experienced much of what we have put forth about corruption and coverups.
Contrary to the implications that you have made, we are not ignorant enough to believe that we hold every man. woman, and child on Happy Island directly responsible for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. It’s insulting that you would even suggest this. We do know that those who are directly responsible have been protected. We have no way to break through this web of protection with only our voices and requests. Our boycott of Aruba is intended to force the citizens of Aruba to demand what they already know should be the right actions from their government. Three years of pleas for justice have been to no avail. Perhaps by affecting the personal bank accounts of the Aruban citizens, we will finally see the culmination of our demands for justice. The Aruban people have certainly been quite vocal of late in demanding salary and overtime increases. Perhaps they will eventually also demand justice and right actions. Our basic requests are not at all outrageous. We are asking for honor and truth. These are two human rights that should be afforded to everyone on your island whether they are Aurban or foreign tourists.
We are appreciative of your efforts to expose Joran van der Sloot. We were supportive of you when you met with resistance on your recent trip to Aruba. You have most certainly been effective in keeping this crime and Joran, himself, in the media. We celebrate that your actions have most assuredly brought a great deal of stress and discomfort to the perpetrators. We also accept that as an Aruban it is most likely painful for you to witness any financial loss to your island. However, you must also be cognizant of the fact that we did not create the Natalee Holloway incident. Aruban/Dutch people created this problem and it is Aruba who must step forward with the correct resolution. Until this happens, we will continue to boycott your Happy Island for what was done to Natalee Holloway, for what was done to her parents, and for what has been done to other American tourists who have ventured onto your island.
We want justice, Patrick, and we will not stop until it is delivered by the government and people of Aruba. We will continue to boycott your island and I have no doubt that you would do the same if this had happened to a Dutch or Aruban girl on the streets of the US. Your pompous statements will only serve to fuel our anger and our resolve. I am sincerely disappointed to learn that you have known the van der Sloots for seven years, lived across the street from the Kalpoes, and staged the entire video with your friend Joran. You should be ashamed of yourself. I, for one, will not be purchasing your volume of fiction and I have no intention of stopping my boycott of Aruba.

RESPONSE PATRICK

Dear Mr or Mrs. Smith

I don’t see any new point of view in this that has not already been discussed. But you had not posted yet, so I give you some space. I notice again that you are also one of these scared monkeys who have consipracy on the top of their minds. It is not a diversion tactic and I don’t have fellow Arubans I even spoke with this about. Of course it is important to realize that a kid - just as example - lives in a far more dangerous world in the USA as far as crime goes, than in France, or Germany… or Aruba. In the sense of a call for a boycott that says all. Cover-ups, corruption and bad actions of dirty authorities also happen in the States. Let me say it very simple, if Natalee would have been black for instance the media would have not paid that much - if any - attention. Also that happens in your own country many times. Focus on your own faults, I have already focused on the one that happened 3 years ago in Aruba and I’m still working on it.
For the rest, see Soph, she all summed it up correctly.

Greetings

[/i]

Good Morning Lou,

     It was me and I added the last sentence because I am sick of Aruban games.  I very carefully wrote that sentence not as an accusation, but as an expression of my feelings after having learned information.  I left it open for a response.  I was also very careful not to make a single negative comment about Patrick.  In fact, I expressed appreciation because he exposed Joran and brought Natalee's case back into the news.  I go right through the roof when people from Aruba respond to Natalee's disappearance by pointing at crime in the US.  This is not about the US.  We have crime, but that does not exhonerate Aruba from what happened.  Does US crime make Natalee's disappearance OK?  I also went through the roof when Patrick made a suposition that we would not care about an African American girl.  I will not sit by while he refers to me as racist.  I will not tolerate that.  Patrick did not respond to the last sentence in my blog post until many hours later, after "Jorik" confronted my statement.  I don't know if the video was planned in advance with Joran.  It could certainly have been planned with some of those we know at ALE and AHATA.  Either way, we all know that the contents of that tape are not accurate.  It certainly gives a very simplistic resolution to a very complicated crime.  It seems to me that the video provides protection for everyone except Natalee, which is a typical ALE/AHATA ploy.

[Vicki]

And why did Joran nor his father mention this straight after the show? 

This information looks like a new attack with disinformation.

Welcome Briany!

Patrick did a service for the case by opening up Joran's fat mouth and letting the world know what a worthless bastard he is. Many people think much less of him than they already did. However, before he goes cracking walnuts with his ass (thank you Sam Peckinpah) he needs to put his role in perspective. For starters, he has not "solved the case" as he claims. Last time I checked Joran was still running free and the judge wouldn't even arrest him. Patrick hasn't solved jack shit.

Secondly, if he is so friggin' stupid that he can't see the corruption that has gone on in Aruba I don't see that he is smart enough to get out of bed in the morning, much less solve a case.

Look at the tapes. There are much sharper questions he could have asked Joran, but he didn't. He could have gotten much more information by asking a few wiser questions, but he didn't. I appreciate him for getting what he got out of Joran, but a really intelligent person could have done a hell of a lot better.

Thanks for the welcome.

Patrick told in interviews he was interested in the Natalee case from the start. When Patrick met Joran in a Dutch casino he made this plan. As far as I know Patrick went to the police first, but the police was not interested because they are not allowed to work the way Patrick was going to do. After that Patrick went to Peter. It is known that Peter was investigating the Natalee case from the start and did not want to let go without an answer. It is also known that Peter was convinced that Joran and his father knew more about the disappearance of Natalee, so it is quite obvious that Patrick went to Peter when Patrick found out that the police could not work with him.

I have seen the tapes too. Patrick is not a detective and it is always a risk Joran would find out. By the end of the tapes one can see that Joran gets bored with the questions. It is very understandable that Peter and Patrick decided to stop.
The tape is better than nothing. Joran told in the tape he knew that Natalee definitely never comes back. How can Joran be so sure about this?

Why would Patrick make a tape like that?

Aruba is not a very big island so it is very well possible that he had heard of the family. Joran was a very young boy by then. Sorry I don not believe the story. Patrick has the right to try and protect the inhabitants of Aruba, of course.

Hi all,

one question to ask your self.

Why in all the interviews tapes that I review this week of Scareface (Patric), he never asked about the cops or asked Joran why did you not call the Police ?

Answer:


In 2002 Patrick brother open a water sport business in Aruba. Trough his brother in 2003 he knew Joran already and his dad and Famaly in Holland.

in holland he lives 15 min drive from the sloot town. He lives in a trailer park. He was a business and knew the sloot Famaly all the time. they allways where friends in Holland.

To find these info, you have to go and search in Dutch for info about these people. There is alot good info about Scareface.

Now one more question:

Patrick called Joran "Maton" means Killer, but if we are friends for a long time, this is welcome, and even both of them knowings that one of them did not do it. So who did it between them, Joran did not do it, he is the scapegoad. The Gesture was welkome to Joran. But Joran can not call him (Patrick) a Moton (Killer) becuase this will be exposing to much of patrick. There is a saying that the real killer will always call the one that did not do notting a killer as a Joke.

Remember there is the Sacrefice and their is the sacrefice. both are persons, one is a Person that will sit-in for the real scarefice (Killer)

 

To call someone a Moton is an insult. but only a friend that has killed before can use that 

CapsLockWizard,

First of all: when someone gets "sick" you call an ambulance, not the police. Patrick asked several times, why did'nt you check she was alive? Why did you do this? Things like that.

Furthermore: if I live in a village or small town it is not strange that my family also lives there.
The fact that Patrick was known on the Island is the reason that he was able to get in touch with Joran.
If you want to believe all the stories about "scarface" from just everybody, you might as well believe all the stories which have been told about Natalee's mother.

The stories are similar and do not make sense.

That my opnion.

Welcome Briany!!!
I agree with you. I think Patrick's tapes are very legitimate. Hindsight is 20/20, it's easy to look at the tapes now and ask why he didn't say this, or ask that...he did the best he could in the moment..imho.
I think what is happening is the arrogance that Patrick shows now, is starting to cloud our good judgement on what a great deed he did with those tapes...but in all honesty, only someone as arrogant as Patrick could have jumped in that car and drove him around for 5 months trying to extract the truth. Every trait has a positive and a negative impact on people in different scenarios. Patrick is what he is, he rubbed me wrong with his comments and letter on the Boycott and protests, by I am trying to separate that from what he did with joran and the tapes, but it is that same arrogance that also caused him to become involved in the case and get joran to confess what he did. Is it the whole truth? We all know it isn't, but I think it is clearly a big chunk of the truth, eveidenced by the questions Jug and Beth were asked immediately about Natalee's medical history. I think it does bring Beth and her family and friends some peace, I think it definately brings Beth some vindication, because as she said, THAT is the joran she knew...the one in the tapes, and now the rest of the world knows.
I also firmly believe joran never had any idea he was being taped. My opinion only, all I have to do is look at the interviews he did as compared to those tapes...his true colors came out in thosed taped recordings. For that I am very thankfor to Patrick.

I thought alot about Patrick's responses to the protests and boycott...he responded to two of my e-mails...deleted another..lol...and his responses really worked me up!!! But I think that we and Patrick know two different sides of Aruba. I believe he is very sincere in his defense of Aruba because he knows the everyday people of Aruba and they are good to him. We are sincere in our dislike and distrust of Aruba, and we all know the reasons for that!! I will respect Patrick's defense of Aruba although I will never buy it and will continue to protest at travel shows. I am very dissappointed he did not show me the same respect, but I can't take away what he did to move this case again with those tapes.

Id, You are right, I think...He got on my nerves also, because of his arrogance, but maybe its because of it that he was able to even stand dealing with joran...who knows..but I will continue the boycott no matter what he says, and while some info was forthcoming from joran, Patrick didnt solve the case...which is to bad. Im wondering if he really speaks with Beth? Any idea????

[MumInOhio]

AAAHHHHHH!!! Pulling my hair out now in frustration!!!

EXCELLENT post by Justice for Natalee!!! Absolutely terrific!!
Patrick's response..same old sheet we have been hearing for 3 years. Those opposed to a boycott can't even get creatice!! Just throw out the same old same old...crime in US...blah, blah, blah...but when I saw the comment that suggested if Natalee had been black she never would have gotten the coverage she did....well...all I can say is:
MEET ME IN DC....NO JUSTICE FOR NATALEE, NO TOURISTS FOR ARUBA....MEET ME IN DC....NO JUSTICE FOR NATALEE NO TOURISTS FOR ARUBA...MEET ME IN DC

April 18th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

Justice for Natalee Holloway said:


Patrick, Like so many posters from Aruba you are very quick to point out that the US has crime. You are absolutely correct, Patrick, the US has a lot of crime, but this is not about the US. It’s about Aruba. This is a diversion tactic that you and your fellow Arubans put forth in an attempt to change the focus from the Natalee crime to general crime in the US. It simply isn’t about us this time, it’s all about Aruba. Aruba is responsible for the corruption and the coverup that followed the horrific disappearance of a promising young American woman who chose to celebrate a significant event in her life on your island. The way in which her disappearance has been handled is deplorable. After three years, we continue to learn of the depth of the corruption and coverup. It would most assuredly be a valuable learning experience for you to read the many hours of research and documentation of corruption and a coverup that exists at the scared monkey site. I am confident though, that you are already aware of this and you have probably personally experienced much of what we have put forth about corruption and coverups.
Contrary to the implications that you have made, we are not ignorant enough to believe that we hold every man. woman, and child on Happy Island directly responsible for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. It’s insulting that you would even suggest this. We do know that those who are directly responsible have been protected. We have no way to break through this web of protection with only our voices and requests. Our boycott of Aruba is intended to force the citizens of Aruba to demand what they already know should be the right actions from their government. Three years of pleas for justice have been to no avail. Perhaps by affecting the personal bank accounts of the Aruban citizens, we will finally see the culmination of our demands for justice. The Aruban people have certainly been quite vocal of late in demanding salary and overtime increases. Perhaps they will eventually also demand justice and right actions. Our basic requests are not at all outrageous. We are asking for honor and truth. These are two human rights that should be afforded to everyone on your island whether they are Aurban or foreign tourists.
We are appreciative of your efforts to expose Joran van der Sloot. We were supportive of you when you met with resistance on your recent trip to Aruba. You have most certainly been effective in keeping this crime and Joran, himself, in the media. We celebrate that your actions have most assuredly brought a great deal of stress and discomfort to the perpetrators. We also accept that as an Aruban it is most likely painful for you to witness any financial loss to your island. However, you must also be cognizant of the fact that we did not create the Natalee Holloway incident. Aruban/Dutch people created this problem and it is Aruba who must step forward with the correct resolution. Until this happens, we will continue to boycott your Happy Island for what was done to Natalee Holloway, for what was done to her parents, and for what has been done to other American tourists who have ventured onto your island.
We want justice, Patrick, and we will not stop until it is delivered by the government and people of Aruba. We will continue to boycott your island and I have no doubt that you would do the same if this had happened to a Dutch or Aruban girl on the streets of the US. Your pompous statements will only serve to fuel our anger and our resolve. I am sincerely disappointed to learn that you have known the van der Sloots for seven years, lived across the street from the Kalpoes, and staged the entire video with your friend Joran. You should be ashamed of yourself. I, for one, will not be purchasing your volume of fiction and I have no intention of stopping my boycott of Aruba.

RESPONSE PATRICK

Dear Mr or Mrs. Smith

I don’t see any new point of view in this that has not already been discussed. But you had not posted yet, so I give you some space. I notice again that you are also one of these scared monkeys who have consipracy on the top of their minds. It is not a diversion tactic and I don’t have fellow Arubans I even spoke with this about. Of course it is important to realize that a kid - just as example - lives in a far more dangerous world in the USA as far as crime goes, than in France, or Germany… or Aruba. In the sense of a call for a boycott that says all. Cover-ups, corruption and bad actions of dirty authorities also happen in the States. Let me say it very simple, if Natalee would have been black for instance the media would have not paid that much - if any - attention. Also that happens in your own country many times. Focus on your own faults, I have already focused on the one that happened 3 years ago in Aruba and I’m still working on it.
For the rest, see Soph, she all summed it up correctly.

Greetings

[/i]

Good Morning Lisa...Have some coffee and quit reading his stupid blog...you'll get an ulcer! 

[briany]

"And when it comes to Patrick knowing the van der Sloots....7 years? Where did that come from?  What he meant in the conversation with Pontje was that he knew about he case for years...not the van der Sloots. Where did the 7 years come from? Is this from something else? A different interview / quote?"

Knowing the Natalee case more than 7 years? Or about 7 years?



That could make sense, or?

Does anybody know something about the carwashing of the Kalpoe brothers in the middle of the night?
In Holland people wrote some neighbours seen or heard the Kalpoe brothers while they were washing their car the morning after Natalee disappeared.

Are there any officials statement or is this just a rumour?

[ldstlou]

It was a great post SS. I think we have approached Patrick with logical explanations of our views and legitimate questions and are repeatedly responded to by the same old rhetoric garbage. I think it shows a very clear mindset on the part of some people from Aruba. I don't want to say all...I don't have the knowledge to say that...but as I said in the DC travel section, if this is our "friend" and this is his mindset, it makes me all the more determined to continue the protests and boycott!!

[ldstlou]

AAAHHHHHH!!! Pulling my hair out now in frustration!!!

EXCELLENT post by Justice for Natalee!!! Absolutely terrific!!
Patrick's response..same old sheet we have been hearing for 3 years. Those opposed to a boycott can't even get creatice!! Just throw out the same old same old...crime in US...blah, blah, blah...but when I saw the comment that suggested if Natalee had been black she never would have gotten the coverage she did....well...all I can say is:
MEET ME IN DC....NO JUSTICE FOR NATALEE, NO TOURISTS FOR ARUBA....MEET ME IN DC....NO JUSTICE FOR NATALEE NO TOURISTS FOR ARUBA...MEET ME IN DC

April 18th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

Justice for Natalee Holloway said:


Patrick, Like so many posters from Aruba you are very quick to point out that the US has crime. You are absolutely correct, Patrick, the US has a lot of crime, but this is not about the US. It’s about Aruba. This is a diversion tactic that you and your fellow Arubans put forth in an attempt to change the focus from the Natalee crime to general crime in the US. It simply isn’t about us this time, it’s all about Aruba. Aruba is responsible for the corruption and the coverup that followed the horrific disappearance of a promising young American woman who chose to celebrate a significant event in her life on your island. The way in which her disappearance has been handled is deplorable. After three years, we continue to learn of the depth of the corruption and coverup. It would most assuredly be a valuable learning experience for you to read the many hours of research and documentation of corruption and a coverup that exists at the scared monkey site. I am confident though, that you are already aware of this and you have probably personally experienced much of what we have put forth about corruption and coverups.
Contrary to the implications that you have made, we are not ignorant enough to believe that we hold every man. woman, and child on Happy Island directly responsible for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. It’s insulting that you would even suggest this. We do know that those who are directly responsible have been protected. We have no way to break through this web of protection with only our voices and requests. Our boycott of Aruba is intended to force the citizens of Aruba to demand what they already know should be the right actions from their government. Three years of pleas for justice have been to no avail. Perhaps by affecting the personal bank accounts of the Aruban citizens, we will finally see the culmination of our demands for justice. The Aruban people have certainly been quite vocal of late in demanding salary and overtime increases. Perhaps they will eventually also demand justice and right actions. Our basic requests are not at all outrageous. We are asking for honor and truth. These are two human rights that should be afforded to everyone on your island whether they are Aurban or foreign tourists.
We are appreciative of your efforts to expose Joran van der Sloot. We were supportive of you when you met with resistance on your recent trip to Aruba. You have most certainly been effective in keeping this crime and Joran, himself, in the media. We celebrate that your actions have most assuredly brought a great deal of stress and discomfort to the perpetrators. We also accept that as an Aruban it is most likely painful for you to witness any financial loss to your island. However, you must also be cognizant of the fact that we did not create the Natalee Holloway incident. Aruban/Dutch people created this problem and it is Aruba who must step forward with the correct resolution. Until this happens, we will continue to boycott your Happy Island for what was done to Natalee Holloway, for what was done to her parents, and for what has been done to other American tourists who have ventured onto your island.
We want justice, Patrick, and we will not stop until it is delivered by the government and people of Aruba. We will continue to boycott your island and I have no doubt that you would do the same if this had happened to a Dutch or Aruban girl on the streets of the US. Your pompous statements will only serve to fuel our anger and our resolve. I am sincerely disappointed to learn that you have known the van der Sloots for seven years, lived across the street from the Kalpoes, and staged the entire video with your friend Joran. You should be ashamed of yourself. I, for one, will not be purchasing your volume of fiction and I have no intention of stopping my boycott of Aruba.

RESPONSE PATRICK

Dear Mr or Mrs. Smith

I don’t see any new point of view in this that has not already been discussed. But you had not posted yet, so I give you some space. I notice again that you are also one of these scared monkeys who have consipracy on the top of their minds. It is not a diversion tactic and I don’t have fellow Arubans I even spoke with this about. Of course it is important to realize that a kid - just as example - lives in a far more dangerous world in the USA as far as crime goes, than in France, or Germany… or Aruba. In the sense of a call for a boycott that says all. Cover-ups, corruption and bad actions of dirty authorities also happen in the States. Let me say it very simple, if Natalee would have been black for instance the media would have not paid that much - if any - attention. Also that happens in your own country many times. Focus on your own faults, I have already focused on the one that happened 3 years ago in Aruba and I’m still working on it.
For the rest, see Soph, she all summed it up correctly.

Greetings

[/i]

Good Morning Lisa...Have some coffee and quit reading his stupid blog...you'll get an ulcer! 

roflmao!!! You are correct!! Getting as bad as RU!! lol
However...paints a picture for me and makes me even more determined to continue coming to the protests!!!