Natalee Case Discussion #748 4/17 - 4/24/08

[Kermit]

SAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jerry from Ohio]

  Please allow me to place my name in agreement here also .
  I am of the opinion that Patrick is having trouble handling all of the attention that he has received .
  When it started to die down he wanted more time and if he could make $$ from it he also wanted that also but his impatience for his " BIG " payoff  has probably sunk that ship  look at peter D  he just seems to be lying low and waiting to see where this all will lead  and then he will again have another story to add to his credit .  JMO on all this .
  And I also have never seen racist opinions surface on SM  and we all have Klaas to thank for keeping that type of BS under control  Hat Tip to Klaas and Red also .
   Jerry fro Ohio

Why the big deal about a boycott?  Aruba says that all is fine
and the boycott has had no impact.  According to their official stats
tourism has never been better.  Only three state governors in the
US backed Beth in the boycott.  How can three states matter?

I believe that Aruba's own actions have contributed more to the
lack of tourists than anything else.

It is another case of blaming the victim

Magnolia I agree with your entire post.

[Buckeye]

At one point in time, Tom or Red (the original owners of this blog) discussed the reason for the name and the need for political activism.  I can't find that post.  For those relatively new, the blog was created before Natalee went missing.  Red had actually lived in Aruba and took part in the landfill search with Dave Holloway.  I've read here a long time and this blog has never been racist (maybe a little right winged, politically..lol).  The racist belief was started at a site that actually has "journalists" from Aruba, posting slander regarding Natalee and her family.  They labeled anyone that supported Natalee a monkkkey.  The name has no relationship to reality.

About Us

The Bloggers started out in High School. Tom and Red were stuck in the middle of Connecticut, and escaped through a combination of luck and skill.

Through the years, and yes there were many years, they remained friends, talking about sports and women, and then sport and news and wives as they aged.

With the advent of the internet, they started wasting lots of time finding interesting information and sending it to each other. First it was the news sites, and then soon they found the blogs.

On a cold and rainy day at the end of February, 2005 they started a blog. This blog, Scared Monkeys, soon became a better time waster, and also to the surprise of Tom and Red, a popular site on the internet.

CNN, MSNBC, Slate, and many other publications quoted and featured them on shows, and appearances on regional radio and television followed.

Now they have expanded their offerings into new blogging enterprises named The Bloggers covering many of topics they follow. It shall be an interesting trip as they progress.

Thanks for coming along for the ride.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/about-us/

[Tamikosmom]

Basically as soon as I heard that the Kalpoes were happy with Joran's confession that was all the proof I needed.  It raised my eyebrows and I said hummm something isn't right here.  Besides Joran's actions in the car which was proof enough for me to believe this was another hatched plan by Aruba.

AND THIS YEARS RAZZIE AWARDS GO TO.

 

[MumInOhio]

At one point in time, Tom or Red (the original owners of this blog) discussed the reason for the name and the need for political activism.  I can't find that post.  For those relatively new, the blog was created before Natalee went missing.  Red had actually lived in Aruba and took part in the landfill search with Dave Holloway.  I've read here a long time and this blog has never been racist (maybe a little right winged, politically..lol).  The racist belief was started at a site that actually has "journalists" from Aruba, posting slander regarding Natalee and her family.  They labeled anyone that supported Natalee a monkkkey.  The name has no relationship to reality.

About Us

The Bloggers started out in High School. Tom and Red were stuck in the middle of Connecticut, and escaped through a combination of luck and skill.

Through the years, and yes there were many years, they remained friends, talking about sports and women, and then sport and news and wives as they aged.

With the advent of the internet, they started wasting lots of time finding interesting information and sending it to each other. First it was the news sites, and then soon they found the blogs.

On a cold and rainy day at the end of February, 2005 they started a blog. This blog, Scared Monkeys, soon became a better time waster, and also to the surprise of Tom and Red, a popular site on the internet.

CNN, MSNBC, Slate, and many other publications quoted and featured them on shows, and appearances on regional radio and television followed.

Now they have expanded their offerings into new blogging enterprises named The Bloggers covering many of topics they follow. It shall be an interesting trip as they progress.

Thanks for coming along for the ride.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/about-us/

Hi Buckeye…I came across one of my posts at one of those sites, accidently, during a search. The MumInOhio had been changed to KKKinOhio, by a certain lawyer? named Charlie! Imagine my surprise to see this on a google search!

So it appears the slander is not only directed at Natalee and her family. Still reading here Charlie?   

[Tamikosmom]

That's a good idea. Back to the beginning. There are a lot of Dutch readers these days. I also believe in a cover up, but it is also possible that this is about a baby cover up, we do not know.
So what's the story.......

The car was washed before Natalee went in the car? Is that it?

Joran said in the tape The Kalpoe brothers are not involved at all. They had nothing to do with this, Joran said.
Is that possible?

Only if you want to negate the gardener's observation/ testimony as well as the Freddy's witness statement.

Janet

++++++++

Freddy Arambatzis
Witness Statement
De Zaak Natalee Holloway
June 12, 2005

Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house.

He told me that the previous day, Sunday, he had befriended a girl in the Holiday Inn casino and that she had invited him to come to Carlos and Charlies that evening. He went and they danced and drank together.

After that he, Deepak Satish and the girl drove off. Her friends saw that. The drove in the direction of the Lighthouse; a white car was behind them and most likely wanted to race Deepak. But that is something Deepak would never do. Joran told me that he fingered and had french kissed the girl while they were driving. He did not say that he had had sex with her.

They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba.

The girl had said to Joran that if Deepak and Satish would have lived in her town, they would be slaves.

After that they drove to the hotel. When the girl had pushed open the door of the car, she fell to the ground. Joran wanted to help her but she shoved him away.

The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the four of them drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that they had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish.
Translation Credit: Rammstein


Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: I know one thing that Deepak Kalpoe did in August was, when the gardener came before the judge of instruction to give sworn testimony of witnessing those three suspects together in the Kalpoe brothers' car that night at the pond, across the street from the Marriott, it was in front of the prosecutor, in front of the defense, the judge of instruction, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, Joran Van Der Sloot.

Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/lkl.01.html

[caesu]

Request for Dutch mediation



A great number of representatives of employers’- and employees’ organizations and the business circles offered the government and the unions a ‘negotiation table’ to overcome the deadlock in the labour dispute.

ORANJESTAD – Striking public employees have requested the Representation of the Netherlands in Oranjestad (VNO) to mediate in the labour dispute between the government and the civil servants.  Acting Representative Myriam Jacobs received a delegation of the strikers on Thursday afternoon.  She told the strikers that VNO represents the State of the Netherlands and that the Dutch government doesn’t have a part in this process.  As an example she told them that a labour dispute in the Netherlands cannot be solved by asking another country, like Aruba for example, to mediate.  It is and remains a national matter.  She refers the strikers to the representation of the Kingdom in Aruba, which is the governor, for a request to the Kingdom, for mediation.

Unions take the Aruban government to court

ORANJESTAD – The civil servant unions united in SDA have instituted a lawsuit against the Oduber-cabinet.  The lawsuit is to prevent the striking civil servants from not being paid this month.  According to lawyer Edwin Duijneveld that represents the unions, the government is not allowed to withhold salaries based on just the principle ‘no work no pay’.

The strike has been going on for weeks now.  The civil servants blocked the road along the Government Building yesterday morning and caused huge chaos in traffic.  This morning, they blocked the access road to the harbour, at the office of Aruba Port Authority.  At the airport and the schools, the employees are still on strike.

NEGOTIATION TABLE

Representatives of Ahata, ATIA, and the Chamber of Commerce conducted an unexpected press conference yesterday to overcome the deadlock in the labour dispute between the government and the unions.  Ahata-director Rob Smith said that the organizations cannot just sit still and let all this happen; the labour conflict is already damaging the Aruban economy. They offered the government and the unions a ‘negotiation table’ in the Radisson Hotel today starting at 13:00.

ATIA-chairman Juan David Yrausquin added that the parties ‘are not allowed to leave the table before there is a solution’.  “We, Aruba, will see to this.”

Others present at the press conference were the chairs of storeowners’ association Mambo, unions IOUWA (Valero-refinery), SIWA (WEB-personnel), STT (telecommunication), AVB (nurses), Union Taxista Arubano, and also the directors of AAA and ATA.

Finance-minister Nilo Swaen (MEP) has already indicated on behalf of the government that they won’t go to the Radisson Hotel.  The minister doesn’t understand why the social partners are just now taking actions, while they have been well informed of the situation and could have anticipated damages for the Aruban economy.

“With this invitation they want the government to handle on an irresponsible manner for Aruba and agree with what the unions are asking.  That has never happened before in the history of Aruba.”   

Swaen says that he will only consider negotiations, if the social partners will also back the government when she is forced to double the bbo-percentage to continue paying for the personnel expenses.   

Premier Nelson Oduber has invited Ahata, ATIA, and the KvK to come to the government building around noon today to ‘receive the necessary information’.  He is under the impression that the employers’ organizations have an incorrect image of the situation.  The statements of the business circles regarding the current conflict with the civil servant unions have surprised him.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

[Rob]

Hi everyone,

as I said before, I'm not at all sure what to think about Patrick, and I promised myself I would not buy any books that were written by those that have an agenda. No sense furthering that cause or lining their pockets. I see that most here will not buy the Patrick book. I totally understand... but how will we know what he has written? I guess I will buy it, read it and write a report on any info that seems relevant. Someone has to.

We still don't even know what was said in the rest of the tapes... and what ever happened to the other 9 confessions?

there were 20 hours of tapes and I have only seen a few snips.

someone has to read that piece of crap Patrick is writing.

I hate to admit this, but I want to know more about Patrick and his motives, should there be any.

[Rob]

The lawsuit is to prevent the striking civil servants from not being paid this month.

typical of Arubans... go on strike and STILL wanting to be paid... yep, typical.

and a double negative on top on that . . . 

[Buckeye]

caesu

Thanks for the article.

Oduber:
He is under the impression that the employers’ organizations have an incorrect image of the situation. 

Maybe he can hire Arlene, to explain to the Arubans, that they just don't understand his system.  Certainly it can't be "the language" barrier.   

[Observer]

SAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Right on San!!!!!!!

Since I am responding to Kermit 
What do you mean, "I look a little green today"?

[texasmom]

SAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Right on San!!!!!!!

Since I am responding to Kermit 
What do you mean, "I look a little green today"?

awwwwww, too cute *******!   

[Observer]

I think Aruba was hit with even higher inflation then us here in the states and they have every right to be Protesting! I am curious what these Aruban's say to the Anita and PVDS when they see them on the street? Is Anita Indexing with the others? After all the issue is not just about salaries,as I think it's clear there is a bigger issue at hand as the Aruban economy has taken a hit. Theres a couple people on that island and in holland that know more about what happened to Natalee,but will only talk at there choosing 

[Tamikosmom]

Tamikosmom, Rob, Peaches, San, Nut44x4, johan555, sirensong, dennisintn and 17 Guests are viewing this board.

++++++++

 

Peaches ... I see ya.

Have ya doing hon?

Hugs

Janet

[Observer]

Biiiig Hugs to Peaches!!!!!! She probably came here to check up on updates on Natalee before visiting her own thread!! We love you Peaches! 

[Peaches]

Good afternoon from scenic Seven East.  I am ambulating independantly.  I'm stilll on ice chips because the doctor had to resect my duodenum and he doesn't want to upset my stomach.  My surgeon says I have been optimally debulked and am currently NED (no evidence of disease).  So in a couple weeks, I'll head back to the gyn-onc and see what comes next.

Thanks for all your prayers and support. 

The doctor's nurse told me last week that I could be in the hospital from 5-7 days (just shoot me now) but I think Dr. D. may be starting to see my side of things.  I don't feel bad.  Yeah, the incision site is  sore but it's not that bad.  It may be this ON-Q , a medicine filled cue ball looking thing which continually infuses pain meds.

[klaasend]

Good afternoon from scenic Seven East.  I am ambulating independantly.  I'm stilll on ice chips because the doctor had to resect my duodenum and he doesn't want to upset my stomach.  My surgeon says I have been optimally debulked and am currently NED (no evidence of disease).  So in a couple weeks, I'll head back to the gyn-onc and see what comes next.

Thanks for all your prayers and support. 

The doctor's nurse told me last week that I could be in the hospital from 5-7 days (just shoot me now) but I think Dr. D. may be starting to see my side of things.  I don't feel bad.  Yeah, the incision site is  sore but it's not that bad.  It may be this ON-Q , a medicine filled cue ball looking thing which continually infuses pain meds.

PEACHES!!!!      GREAT TO SEE YOU! 

[klaasend]

Posted at RU by Pragmatist today:

Was Joran out for an innocent night of fun? Or was he a predator?

By all criminal profiling standards a Predator will make himself appear harmless, disinterested etc so as not to draw attention to his intention to take a victim. He will pretty much show very little emotion or give any clue to his sadistic nature until the moment at which he will make his fantasy real. Joran behaved this way, but was it his real personality, or the one his predatorial needs dictated he use?

By all accounts Joran behaved like a good guy with nothing up his sleeve. By contrast GVC -it is said- behaved openly interested in sexual behaviors with the MB girls as he pissed Natalee off by bumping on her on the dance floor which subsequently pissed off some of Natalee's male classmates. GVC was not hiding anything, but Joran apparently WAS hiding the fact that he wanted to have sex with a tourist before she went home. Why did Joran hide this intention unless he is of the Predatory Mindset?

Joran's shyish and aloof -albiet helpful and kind -behavior that made the MBies feel safe around him, IF he was the Predatory type, was only a Predator's game to get someone's goat. Like he couldn't have a good time getting it on with a tourist unless he was deceiving her into it, thus he was thinking he needed a victim, not a consensual partner. He needed an object, not a person with feelings.

Now since we know Joran does like to play the 'get everybody's goat' game via his constant lying and manipulating of his parents, the cops etc it seems Joran has predatorial patterns which please his senses more than being innocently honest.

If Joran was a predator, then it is likely he may have hurt Natalee even if his intention was not to actually hurt her to the point of getting in trouble. He says himself he'd 'done this' many times before but nothing went wrong. With predators they don't really want anything to go wrong because that would pretty much make it harder to continue their predatory game. Joran is now mad at Natalee, as he said, and probably the reason (in predator rationale) would be because his association with her caused him to have to put his game on hold due to so much attention being brought to him after something went wrong.

But on the flip side.....if Joran were not a predator and actually was seduced by Natalee as he objected due to no condom and needing to get home to sleep for school the next day whereupon he left her, she disappeared and he has no knowledge of what became of her then he would indeed be the fine young man the MB girls say he was and an innocent victim in all this, but it could just be the boy-next-door type a predator displays to the public.

To me his behavior follows predatory patterns. Natalee's behavior certainly follows the pattern of becoming a victim to a predator. So in all the theoretical possibilities of what became of Natalee, the one I think most possible is that Joran is a predator and something unexpected happened with his fantasy that night that caused Natalee to go missing. I think his game was upset by an impulsive anger. He simply lost his cool and messed up his own game.

If he had been up front and honest about wanting to hook up with one of the MB girls then he would not be in his current situation, IMO. And yeah, FEB or Ruth allegedly said to Joran that Natalee had a shotgun on him, so it could seem he was indeed an innocent victim by taking Natalee up on things (like doing jello shots and then making him drive her away) but I don't think so. I think that just played into his hands as to whom he was going to victimize that night....take a girl who is expecting the gentleman he was portraying himself as and turn bad guy aggressive on her and get a sadistic thrill out of making her upset when she finds out she was tricked.

A predator gets a sadistic thrill out of taking off his mask and becoming who he really is...a sadistic abuser of the type of victim that upsets him most. And in Joran's book he talks about this one true love he had who was a nice girl, whom he treated with proper respect, who left him for one of his friends who did not treat the girl as well as Joran did. This could have been what turned Joran to wanting to mistreat and victimize nice girls like Natalee. There is always a reason why certain types are preyed upon.

So I think Predator, and I think it stems from losing his favorite gf because he was too nice to her. I think Joran set out to NOT believe Natalee when she might say NO and force himself on her as he wished he could have done with his true love in order to have not lost her. In a twisted way, he would have told himself she really meant yes when she said no and he ended up hurting Natalee. This was his fantasy, as I see it. Not that he would end up hurting Natalee, just that he would give her what he thought she really wanted so she'd go off liking him after which he'd shun her and get some closure on being dumped by his true love. (However, since this never really closes any doors for a person who is so hurt, they do keep on with doing it thinking next time he will finally find closure. It becomes a serial type thing then)

It's psycho, I know...but I think it's the most possible, putting all pieces together. I think Joran has rejection issues and Natalee paid the price for his past rejections.

[Tamikosmom]

Praise God!!

Peaches

 

Tears of happiness ... Tears of gratefulness ... Tears of thankfulness ...

Janet

[Observer]

Sooo Nice to see you Peaches!!!!! You gave us the best news we have heard in a long time..I could picture dozens on Monkeys all around the country walking around with huge smiles on there faces when we heard your updates!

I have never been fond of the name NED until now!