Natalee Case Discussion #748 4/17 - 4/24/08

[BTgirl]

For our wonderful Peaches. 

[Lala'sMom]

This is Patrick's response to my blog post this morning.  It's like talking to a six year old.

April 19th, 2008 at 4:27 am

Justice for Natalee Holloway said:


Boycott = a group’s NONVIOLENT refusal to have commerical dealings with an organization in protest against its policies.

PATRICK’S RESPONSE

A boycott is a violent instrument, which hurts the little people most, actually the people who are always the biggest victims of crime. The only non-violent protest against crime takes place in a court-of-law or in democratic institutions (with all their failings). However a focused boycott can be a good instrument, for instance against a company that makes products through child labor. Of course that also hurts the little people working in that company and that is why such a boycott should only be called for when the evidence is based on pure facts and not consipracy theories, judged by people who are trained to do so.

All this response says to me is that it's still the same mindset as we all have dealt with for almost 3 years...the 3 year anniversary is approaching fast.  My only response would be to ask this...If the boycott was so distasteful in Patrick's mouth why did he not say so when he had the opportunity while giving interviews and such?  This boycott thing seems to be the sole reason for doing what he did...oops! I forgot, and to obtain money...so it appears to me that there is much fence straddling here on his part.  Funny, he didn't realize that a simple confession of an accident on Joran's part and the unknown Daury disposal would put this all behind Aruba and actually make him a hero in their eyes. I never trusted him and still don't.  W

May be you expect too much of Patrick. He delivered the tape. That's it. De case was closed and now it is (hopefully still) open again. He has a different opinion about boycotting Aruba than some other people. So what!

If you are asking me if I expected too much of Patrick?  I expect nothing of Patrick or the PTB on Aruba...that would be too much to ask. LOL  Welcome to the cage!

[Lala'sMom]

OBS
Do you have a folder on your computer that says "cuteness"?  Those little kitties are just so adorable.

 Hey Peaches!  Lovin' the lappy I see.

[Tamikosmom]

Good afternoon from scenic Seven East.  I am ambulating independantly.  I'm stilll on ice chips because the doctor had to resect my duodenum and he doesn't want to upset my stomach.  My surgeon says I have been optimally debulked and am currently NED (no evidence of disease).  So in a couple weeks, I'll head back to the gyn-onc and see what comes next.

Thanks for all your prayers and support. 

The doctor's nurse told me last week that I could be in the hospital from 5-7 days (just shoot me now) but I think Dr. D. may be starting to see my side of things.  I don't feel bad.  Yeah, the incision site is  sore but it's not that bad.  It may be this ON-Q , a medicine filled cue ball looking thing which continually infuses pain meds.

In my 61 years of life ... I have never knew I had a "duodenums".

 

Janet


du·o·de·nums. Anatomy, Zoology. the first portion of the small intestine, from the stomach to the jejunum. 

Something akin to ******* ... I NEVER cared for the name NED but ... this morning I learned to love it.

Peaches ... take care ... get well .. do what the docs thinks best ... they are making the big buck to make the wisest decisions.

Hugs

Janet

[Buckeye]

Peaches

You sound great.  Still praying here.

[Buckeye]

Posted at RU by Pragmatist today:

Was Joran out for an innocent night of fun? Or was he a predator?

By all criminal profiling standards a Predator will make himself appear harmless, disinterested etc so as not to draw attention to his intention to take a victim. He will pretty much show very little emotion or give any clue to his sadistic nature until the moment at which he will make his fantasy real. Joran behaved this way, but was it his real personality, or the one his predatorial needs dictated he use?

By all accounts Joran behaved like a good guy with nothing up his sleeve. By contrast GVC -it is said- behaved openly interested in sexual behaviors with the MB girls as he pissed Natalee off by bumping on her on the dance floor which subsequently pissed off some of Natalee's male classmates. GVC was not hiding anything, but Joran apparently WAS hiding the fact that he wanted to have sex with a tourist before she went home. Why did Joran hide this intention unless he is of the Predatory Mindset?

Joran's shyish and aloof -albiet helpful and kind -behavior that made the MBies feel safe around him, IF he was the Predatory type, was only a Predator's game to get someone's goat. Like he couldn't have a good time getting it on with a tourist unless he was deceiving her into it, thus he was thinking he needed a victim, not a consensual partner. He needed an object, not a person with feelings.

Now since we know Joran does like to play the 'get everybody's goat' game via his constant lying and manipulating of his parents, the cops etc it seems Joran has predatorial patterns which please his senses more than being innocently honest.

If Joran was a predator, then it is likely he may have hurt Natalee even if his intention was not to actually hurt her to the point of getting in trouble. He says himself he'd 'done this' many times before but nothing went wrong. With predators they don't really want anything to go wrong because that would pretty much make it harder to continue their predatory game. Joran is now mad at Natalee, as he said, and probably the reason (in predator rationale) would be because his association with her caused him to have to put his game on hold due to so much attention being brought to him after something went wrong.

But on the flip side.....if Joran were not a predator and actually was seduced by Natalee as he objected due to no condom and needing to get home to sleep for school the next day whereupon he left her, she disappeared and he has no knowledge of what became of her then he would indeed be the fine young man the MB girls say he was and an innocent victim in all this, but it could just be the boy-next-door type a predator displays to the public.

To me his behavior follows predatory patterns. Natalee's behavior certainly follows the pattern of becoming a victim to a predator. So in all the theoretical possibilities of what became of Natalee, the one I think most possible is that Joran is a predator and something unexpected happened with his fantasy that night that caused Natalee to go missing. I think his game was upset by an impulsive anger. He simply lost his cool and messed up his own game.

If he had been up front and honest about wanting to hook up with one of the MB girls then he would not be in his current situation, IMO. And yeah, FEB or Ruth allegedly said to Joran that Natalee had a shotgun on him, so it could seem he was indeed an innocent victim by taking Natalee up on things (like doing jello shots and then making him drive her away) but I don't think so. I think that just played into his hands as to whom he was going to victimize that night....take a girl who is expecting the gentleman he was portraying himself as and turn bad guy aggressive on her and get a sadistic thrill out of making her upset when she finds out she was tricked.

A predator gets a sadistic thrill out of taking off his mask and becoming who he really is...a sadistic abuser of the type of victim that upsets him most. And in Joran's book he talks about this one true love he had who was a nice girl, whom he treated with proper respect, who left him for one of his friends who did not treat the girl as well as Joran did. This could have been what turned Joran to wanting to mistreat and victimize nice girls like Natalee. There is always a reason why certain types are preyed upon.

So I think Predator, and I think it stems from losing his favorite gf because he was too nice to her. I think Joran set out to NOT believe Natalee when she might say NO and force himself on her as he wished he could have done with his true love in order to have not lost her. In a twisted way, he would have told himself she really meant yes when she said no and he ended up hurting Natalee. This was his fantasy, as I see it. Not that he would end up hurting Natalee, just that he would give her what he thought she really wanted so she'd go off liking him after which he'd shun her and get some closure on being dumped by his true love. (However, since this never really closes any doors for a person who is so hurt, they do keep on with doing it thinking next time he will finally find closure. It becomes a serial type thing then)

It's psycho, I know...but I think it's the most possible, putting all pieces together. I think Joran has rejection issues and Natalee paid the price for his past rejections.

I agree with this.  Joran told Ruth McVay and the girls, at the blackjack table, that he was a 19 yr. old soccer player from Holland.  He talks about it in his book, also.  It was (and is) his mask.

I just think it goes back to developmental stages and his relationship with his mother. The "nice" girlfriend just reinforced some pathology.

[Observer]

This showed up in my google alert 

Comment by Guod
April 18th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

Let’s all give Governor Huckabee a hand. He was one of the only politicians to stand up against Aruba during the Natalee Holloway. Kidnapping, Rape and murder. If he knew how far Gutless Greta has gone to coverup the case. He would have walked away from the troll known as Greta. Keep e-mailing Fox to get the Aruban/Joran lover removed from FOX. BTW- When is Greta gonna start talking about ARUBA? I thought she wanted them to SUE her? But yet she does what they told her to do. They told her to shut up or else. And she has???


http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/04/18/friday-morning/#comment-859255

[briany]

Joran sure spent a lot of time trying to throw the Kalpoes under that bus for them to become innocent as the driven snow all of a sudden.  Many rumors and many theories some have Deepak escorting Natalee to the car and others have Satish a little more involved.  Why would Satish feel the need to ask, "How's the girl?" if nothing happened?  Why does Deepak refer to "see that chit" if nothing happened.  Regardless of what anyone says, they were there at some point and unless they are complete fools to allow to happen to them what has happened...they are involved.  As I have often said...Deepak was the person in the driver's seat and he had the opportunity to protect Natalee that night...he could have been a man and took her back to her hotel or even insisted she get out of that car.  He didn't...he allowed a young woman to be taken advantage of knowing she was not able to defend herself at the moment...that alone implicates him in this entire mess. No one gets a free pass from me.

So, it is not possible that they drove to the VdS's home straight away?
Why mailing that you are home? Because you were home all the time already?

I agree that the Kalpoes were definitely involved.  They were part of the kidnapping and Deepak at least was probably part of the rape.  I think that a lot of focus was put on the Kalpoes by both the press and Paulus because they were the ones who were seen driving away with Natalee.  I have always wondered if the original gambling/video party took place at one location (Matty's Apartments?) and then Natalee was driven to the Sloot home.  At that point, the Kalpoes might have left and gone home to wash their car.  I think that the Kalpoes have been scared and rewarded by Paulus and the higher powers.  I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't part of her actual death.

[briany]

Sorry,

I postes my question in the middle of a post.

So, it is not possible that they drove to the VdS's home straight away?
Why mailing that you are home? Because you were home all the time already?

[Lala'sMom]

I don't care what Joran's childhood trauma was...he is a real first class jerk and as far as I am concerned he and the Kalpoes are solely responsible for what happened to Natalee...they were the last with her and they had the power to prevent anything from happening to her regardless of her physical or mental condition and notwithstanding the normal routine of targeting innocents.   

Issues?  We all have issues and I think mine lie squarely with Joran and his cohorts in crime...next would be those allowing this to continue. I think I will go work on my own personal issues now and shut my mouth before I get my blood pressure up.

[Tamikosmom]

That's a good idea. Back to the beginning. There are a lot of Dutch readers these days. I also believe in a cover up, but it is also possible that this is about a baby cover up, we do not know.
So what's the story.......

The car was washed before Natalee went in the car? Is that it?

Joran said in the tape The Kalpoe brothers are not involved at all. They had nothing to do with this, Joran said.
Is that possible?

 

briany ... something akin to Julia Renfro, Rene Gielen and Angela Dilorenzo as well as others ... you attempt to create smokescreens to direct the focus off the the suspects ... onto the victim and her family.

I will not go there.

Natalee Holloway was last seen with Joran, Deepak and Satish leaving Carlos 'n Charlies.  The suspects lied over and over again in regards to their last encounter with Natalee.  WHY?

Lies are created to cover the truth.  I ask ... "What truth were Joran, Deepak and Satish" attempting cover.

When Paulus changed his story regarding the pickup from MacDonalds on the morning when Natalee went missing ... I ask ... "What truth was Paulus attempting to cover".

Janet

++++++++++++

Roy Tromp - lead Investigator
Paulus van der Sloot's Interrogator
CBS NEWS
August 5, 2005

Tromp said investigators believe van der Sloot, who turns 18 on Saturday, is the prime suspect and that he had some assistance from his father, Paul, an apprentice judge on the island. "We believe something went wrong with the girl, and the first person you are going to call is your daddy," said Tromp. "In this case, daddy would know exactly what to do." Tromp, who declined to provide details about exactly what investigators believe happened to Holloway, said that Paul van der Sloot has also changed his account the night Holloway vanished.  "Why should you do that if you are telling the truth?" he said.

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/Aruba.Natalee.Holloway.2.256295.html

[San]

If the Kalpoes had nothing to do with the crimes against Natalee they would joyfully hand over all documents that have been requested of them by Dr. Phil's lawyers.  They would defend themselves in court and go forward with their lawsuit against Dr. Phil & Co. and try to will their millions of dollars.

To this day they have not done so.  This means to me that they are the prime suspects which they have been from day one and the truth would be exposed and they would be up shits creek.

Only the guilty have something to hide and they are guilty as hell.

[sharon]

IMOO -- Patrick is desperately trying to hang on to his 15 minutes of fame.
 
And his new found friends in ATA, AHATA (or whatever letters they want to hide behind)  the Aruban gvernment and the cast of usual sub-human players are exploiting Patrick's absence of any type of trait of virtue or character.

He acts like a thug -- which is not surprising because he is a thug.

Again IMOO -- Patrick is the diversionary tactic of 2008. yawn.

The deafening silence continues................


PEACHES -- one more heartfelt shout out to uphold your spirit and share in your journey.



AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT.....IT DOESJustice for Natalee

[Tamikosmom]

If the Kalpoes had nothing to do with the crimes against Natalee they would joyfully hand over all documents that have been requested of them by Dr. Phil's lawyers.  They would defend themselves in court and go forward with their lawsuit against Dr. Phil & Co. and try to will their millions of dollars.

To this day they have not done so.  This means to me that they are the prime suspects which they have been from day one and the truth would be exposed and they would be up shits creek.

Only the guilty have something to hide and they are guilty as hell.

San ... Gerold Dompig concurs.

Janet

+++++++++

Wednesday, April 11, 2007
GEROLD DOMPIG - TRUTH OR DEFAMATION

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2007/04/gerold-dompig-truth-or-defamation.html

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2007/03/03/gerald-dompig-in-his-own-words/

[dennisintn]

Sorry,

I postes my question in the middle of a post.

So, it is not possible that they drove to the VdS's home straight away?
Why mailing that you are home? Because you were home all the time already?

i think all the calls and text messaging and computer usage was part of their alibis. 
dennisintn

[briany]

briany ... something akin to Julia Renfro, Rene Gielen and Angela Dilorenzo as well as others ... you attempt to create smokescreens to direct the focus off the the suspects ... onto the victim and her family.

I will not go there.

Excuses me

I have the impression that some people on the Scared Monkeys only want to concentrate on blaming Patrick and the boycot.

Why did VdS not want to have searched his own house?

Nobody answers?

I wonder if you really want this solves. If people ask reasonable questions you start blaming people. Come on.
I only want to help and am not interested in boycotting or not boycotting Aruba whatsoever.

[Tamikosmom]

briany ... something akin to Julia Renfro, Rene Gielen and Angela Dilorenzo as well as others ... you attempt to create smokescreens to direct the focus off the the suspects ... onto the victim and her family.

I will not go there.

Excuses me

I have the impression that some people on the Scared Monkeys only want to concentrate on blaming Patrick and the boycot.

Why did VdS not want to have searched his own house?

Nobody answers?

I wonder if you really want this solves. If people ask reasonable questions you start blaming people. Come on.
I only want to help and am not interested in boycotting or not boycotting Aruba whatsoever.

The entire dialogue ...

That's a good idea. Back to the beginning. There are a lot of Dutch readers these days. I also believe in a cover up, but it is also possible that this is about a baby cover up, we do not know.
So what's the story.......

The car was washed before Natalee went in the car? Is that it?

Joran said in the tape The Kalpoe brothers are not involved at all. They had nothing to do with this, Joran said.
Is that possible?

 

briany ... something akin to Julia Renfro, Rene Gielen and Angela Dilorenzo as well as others ... you attempt to create smokescreens to direct the focus off the the suspects ... onto the victim and her family.

I will not go there.

Natalee Holloway was last seen with Joran, Deepak and Satish leaving Carlos 'n Charlies.  The suspects lied over and over again in regards to their last encounter with Natalee.  WHY?

Lies are created to cover the truth.  I ask ... "What truth were Joran, Deepak and Satish" attempting cover.

When Paulus changed his story regarding the pickup from MacDonalds on the morning when Natalee went missing ... I ask ... "What truth was Paulus attempting to cover".

Janet

++++++++++++

Roy Tromp - lead Investigator
Paulus van der Sloot's Interrogator
CBS NEWS
August 5, 2005

Tromp said investigators believe van der Sloot, who turns 18 on Saturday, is the prime suspect and that he had some assistance from his father, Paul, an apprentice judge on the island. "We believe something went wrong with the girl, and the first person you are going to call is your daddy," said Tromp. "In this case, daddy would know exactly what to do." Tromp, who declined to provide details about exactly what investigators believe happened to Holloway, said that Paul van der Sloot has also changed his account the night Holloway vanished.  "Why should you do that if you are telling the truth?" he said.

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/Aruba.Natalee.Holloway.2.256295.html

[Observer]

I wonder if this event plays any role at all? Just a coincidence? Out of all the 124 kids why Natalee? Just two days later she was the only one to dissapear I believe this did happen but it was not Joran who got into a fight over Natalee but it was Geoffrey Von Comvoirt who started the fight because he was grinding against Natalee's backside when dancing. It was reported a few times that Natalee got slapped but I that would be hard to believe. It's interesting because GVC was arrested in this case and they found a shirt from his fathers company, which has been reported to be linked to this case,possibly with forensic evidence.
=====================
RBN #21 - 6/24/05 Wee Hours of The Morning
« Reply #330 on: June 24, 2005, 04:10:58 AM »
   
Suspect was in pushing match
Man had scuffle with some of Holloway's friends
By DANIEL JACKSON
BIRMINGHAM POST-HERALD
One of the three young men arrested Thursday in the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway got into a pushing match with some of her friends in an Aruban bar, one of Holloway's friends said Thursday.
Bryan Reynolds, 18, one of 124 recent high school graduates whowent to Aruba in late May, said some of his friends almost got into a fight with Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot and his friends.

The scuffle started after Van Der Sloot, a Dutch suspect arrested at his upper-class home in Oranjestad, Aruba, Thursday morning, had been talking to 18-year-old Holloway at a bar where she and classmates hung out during the five-day trip, Reynolds said.

"There was almost a fight between my friend and him," said Reynolds, who was sitting in his car in the parking lot of Mountain Brook Community Church on Thursday after attending a noon prayer service with his classmates and others. "I had to break them up. That's when I got a good look at them."

[Lala'sMom]

Sorry,

I postes my question in the middle of a post.

So, it is not possible that they drove to the VdS's home straight away?
Why mailing that you are home? Because you were home all the time already?

I do think that they drove to the Sloots...even indicated that they were there an did not go in is in the PV's of one of the perps.  Many here think that the crime itself happened on the Sloot property and that could have been the reason for circumventing a full search of the property...word is still out on this one.

[MumInOhio]

briany ... something akin to Julia Renfro, Rene Gielen and Angela Dilorenzo as well as others ... you attempt to create smokescreens to direct the focus off the the suspects ... onto the victim and her family.

I will not go there.

Excuses me

I have the impression that some people on the Scared Monkeys only want to concentrate on blaming Patrick and the boycot.

Why did VdS not want to have searched his own house?

Nobody answers?

I wonder if you really want this solves. If people ask reasonable questions you start blaming people. Come on.
I only want to help and am not interested in boycotting or not boycotting Aruba whatsoever.

Briany…It is not that I did not want to respond, but was posting in another thread. Ben Voking and and Judge Wit(IIRC)otherwise it was Smid, another friend, both friends of Paulus stopped the search.

I am sorry, but I cannot stay and elaborate further as I need to get ready to leave for the evening.

I will gladly discuss this you on Monday morning, around 4AM Ohio time...