Natalee Case Discussion #748 4/17 - 4/24/08

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas

Please check your email.

Thanks

Janet

[2NJSons_Mom]

Rob,

While waiting for your post, I guessed FBI and did some searching...found 80s info...here is one link....what I had focused on was FBI/DEA teaming up during that timeframe.  Nothing specific about Aruba, but surmise it's being in the pathways to the US mainland and others...

http://www.dea.gov/pubs/history/1980-1985.html

Hi Ya 2NJ, that's the point, they do know all of this because it is commonly know to them... I am trying to show why there is no interdiction on the part of the US government. And why the MEP possibly has been able to hold them at bay.

If the US gets too deeply involved, the MEP could blow the lid of the drug and weapons operations. That's the motive.

I follow.....  Will be on and off here for a bit this afternoon....when checking in, will contribute, if I can.

[Nut44x4]

Rob........

    

This is deep....

[Rob]

I can't help but think about Spencer Bacchus and his "shit hit the fan" look after the meetings with the Aruban Delegation. He looked like he was blown away when Greta confronted him.

It was the case of a girl running off, and they Arubans were upset about the wiretaps. And then never another word from Bacchus again, on the record anyway.

[Rob]

I can't help but think about Spencer Bacchus and his "shit hit the fan" look after the meetings with the Aruban Delegation. He looked like he was blown away when Greta confronted him.

It wasn't the case of a girl running off, and they Arubans were upset about the wiretaps. And then never another word from Bacchus again, on the record anyway.

self edit - typo

[Rob]

Rob........

    

This is deep....

Nut, there is tons more. It only shows that the Arubans could hold a trump card and possible motivation on the part of any US Admin to just let it all go away.

I could post that junk all day, but everyone will log-off 

[Buckeye]

Rob........

    

This is deep....

Nut, there is tons more. It only shows that the Arubans could hold a trump card and possible motivation on the part of any US Admin to just let it all go away.

I could post that junk all day, but everyone will log-off 

Well, if it's findable and postable, it can hardly be considered a "trump" card.

[Rob]

Rob........

    

This is deep....

Nut, there is tons more. It only shows that the Arubans could hold a trump card and possible motivation on the part of any US Admin to just let it all go away.

I could post that junk all day, but everyone will log-off 

Well, if it's findable and postable, it can hardly be considered a "trump" card.

Hi Buckeye,
if Aruba choose to make this all known, they could call up a few major networks and have it on the msm evening news and the sheeple would then know. I bet if you asked 10 people about some of this, 2 or 3 might know.

just because it's in the ether doesn't make it a dinner table discussion, in my opinion.

I also believe that the US government keeps a lot of secrets. Some could be to keep enemies from acquiring technology, or to keep their own dirty work hidden.

all those stars on the wall inside of the CIA are not for good behavior.

There is very little difference between what's legal and what's illegal if the government sanctions it.

I don't believe, imo, that only one side is acting unethically. It takes two to Shango!!! LOL

[Buckeye]

I think the local young guys and perhaps the local old guys got off on drugging and probably filming encounters with young, naive, blond tourists.  I believe GHB type drugs (could be home brewed) were used when necessary.  A privileged kid (and perhaps his father) was involved this time and favors were called in.  I think they've always known what happened.

(I think Peter R. is very nice looking.)  I also think he has a reputation as an investigative journalist.  I don't think he's involved in a super conspiracy.  Patrick is odd and I'm not sure of his motivation but I think Peter R. was in control of the tapes and probably wished that Patrick was more precise and analytical. 

Joran was in the clear.  I don't believe he would have reexposed himself on purpose.  I believe the reference to the infiltrator was made by Dompig when asked what evidence could be present that would warrant a rearrest.  His opinion was a friend infiltrator.  Heck, I might have come up with the same idea.  We were all waiting for Joran to blab to someone.

Joran and some other privileged pimps or pimp daddys are involved.  Their friends covered it up.

I don't believe in the drug, jewelry whatever conspiracy.  I think Aruba does have those issues and I believe that many Americans are involved in illegal goods.  I just don't think these problems were involved in Natalee's death and disappearance.  "It was so simple"...."20 times before".....

[Buckeye]

Rob........

    

This is deep....

Nut, there is tons more. It only shows that the Arubans could hold a trump card and possible motivation on the part of any US Admin to just let it all go away.

I could post that junk all day, but everyone will log-off 

Well, if it's findable and postable, it can hardly be considered a "trump" card.

Hi Buckeye,
if Aruba choose to make this all known, they could call up a few major networks and have it on the msm evening news and the sheeple would then know. I bet if you asked 10 people about some of this, 2 or 3 might know.

just because it's in the ether doesn't make it a dinner table discussion, in my opinion.

I also believe that the US government keeps a lot of secrets. Some could be to keep enemies from acquiring technology, or to keep their own dirty work hidden.

all those stars on the wall inside of the CIA are not for good behavior.

There is very little difference between what's legal and what's illegal if the government sanctions it.

I don't believe, imo, that only one side is acting unethically. It takes two to Shango!!! LOL

Aruba could call up the MSM and probably has more than once.  Forbes didn't publish this, early on.  Aruba would have no info that one of the US investigators hasn't uncovered....and probably written a book about...I don't believe, for one minute, that the US refused to get involved because they were afraid Aruba would blow some whistle.

I believe there is plenty of clandestine dealings involving the US and CIA.  I just don't believe those issues are involved in this case....except perhaps a satellite eaves drop...or Lorenzo or one of the others being an undercover operative that no one wants to expose.

[Rob]

Buckeye, I believe it is the four suspects. That's it. No Lorenzo, no Daury, no Julia. Dave believes it is Koen also, I give that alot of credibility. I am simply trying to show what could motivate the US government to do nothing.

I believe protecting the tourism was job one. It always was. But every country has a history, and Aruba's history over the last 20 years has been (I can't even find the right word)...I think you know what I mean. When you form partnerships with nefarious characters you are eternally linked to them and you always have the risk that someone will talk. So, getting rid of the people that can link you to those crimes is sometimes the easiest method.

it's not a rumor that drugs were run to the Mena airport... that's a fact...it's also a fact that Aruba is a transport trampoline for drugs. The drugs brought into Mena were delivered by the CIA... that's not a rumor either and every talk show host in the 1990's talked about it during the Clinton years to show how crooked they were when the Governor (Clinton) is powerless to stop Federal officials from carrying out operations directed by the President or Vice President. Federal law supersedes State Law. 

no, it's not all new, but a motivating factor was all I was trying to show.

[johan555]

Posted on: 12:47 am, June 07, 2005

on the carlosandcharlies dot com webpage, in the Shout Only box, there is a shoutout from some detectiveghyno that states "look at the site of the old idian(sic) reservation"


The shout is clearly intended in context of the missing girl.


To be taken seriously? Maybe not, but noteworthy. Anyone familiar w/ an old indian reservation on the island?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
was this also a Shango message?

Maybe here

In 1499, the Spanish explorer, Alonso de Ojeda laid claim to the territory for Spain's Queen Isabella.  Legend has it that de Ojeda named Aruba Oro Hubo, meaning there is gold there.  However, the Spanish did not find the gold they sought, and because they found the climate too arid for cultivating crops, they made little use of the island.  For the next 150 years, Aruba became a retreat for pirates and buccaneers who preyed on the ships carrying Indian treasures back to the Old World.  The ruins of an old pirate castle still remains at Bushiribana, on the northeast coast of the island.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Here are the ruins of the  old pirate castle  at Bushiribana,not far from Joran's place

[johan555]

Another tip 06-21-2005, 04:29 PM :
To Whom It May Concern;

I posted these two tips on a news station but will pass them on again to be certain they get to the proper authorities...
1. While visiting Aruba Feb 05 we went to Arashi beach one day. We met a young man I believe to be Jordan Van Der Sloot who was walking a large dog on the beach. My two kids were very excited to see the dog and enjoyed giving him a few pats as they love dogs. In the ensuing conversation this individual commented that he was house sitting and therefore caring for the owners dog as well. I wondered last night, if in fact the police and others investigating Natalees disapearance were aware that this person may have had access to an unoccupied residence in that area, where a crime could have taken place.

#2. Not far from Arashi Beach, out on the point beyond the CA lighthouse is a formation in the rocks with a post and marker, "Augustino Gerrman". This particular area is very dangerous as it is a extremely steep and deep "V" formation in the rocky coast. The surf has carved a very deep cavity or cave into the bedrock there. From the sound of the heavy surf crashing into the rock and compressing the air inside the cavity I would venture to guess that the cave could easily extend 30 to 40 feet under the face of the shelf above. If one were thrown into the water there it would be impossible to swim out of the area and in all likelihood would wind up smashed on the rocks well inside the cave out of sight. This particular area would be incredibily difficult and dangerous to throughly search out. Local conditions would make it ideal from a disposal standpoint.

Suds

[hotping]

Posted on: 12:47 am, June 07, 2005

on the carlosandcharlies dot com webpage, in the Shout Only box, there is a shoutout from some detectiveghyno that states "look at the site of the old idian(sic) reservation"


The shout is clearly intended in context of the missing girl.


To be taken seriously? Maybe not, but noteworthy. Anyone familiar w/ an old indian reservation on the island?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
was this also a Shango message?

Maybe here

In 1499, the Spanish explorer, Alonso de Ojeda laid claim to the territory for Spain's Queen Isabella.  Legend has it that de Ojeda named Aruba Oro Hubo, meaning there is gold there.  However, the Spanish did not find the gold they sought, and because they found the climate too arid for cultivating crops, they made little use of the island.  For the next 150 years, Aruba became a retreat for pirates and buccaneers who preyed on the ships carrying Indian treasures back to the Old World.  The ruins of an old pirate castle still remains at Bushiribana, on the northeast coast of the island.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Here are the ruins of the  old pirate castle  at Bushiribana,not far from Joran's place

Here is a link to some pics of the castle ruins and some of the Tunnel of Love

http://www.photos.dabnorge.com/aruba/aruba_eng.html

[SS]

Posted on: 12:47 am, June 07, 2005

on the carlosandcharlies dot com webpage, in the Shout Only box, there is a shoutout from some detectiveghyno that states "look at the site of the old idian(sic) reservation"


The shout is clearly intended in context of the missing girl.


To be taken seriously? Maybe not, but noteworthy. Anyone familiar w/ an old indian reservation on the island?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
was this also a Shango message?

Maybe here

In 1499, the Spanish explorer, Alonso de Ojeda laid claim to the territory for Spain's Queen Isabella.  Legend has it that de Ojeda named Aruba Oro Hubo, meaning there is gold there.  However, the Spanish did not find the gold they sought, and because they found the climate too arid for cultivating crops, they made little use of the island.  For the next 150 years, Aruba became a retreat for pirates and buccaneers who preyed on the ships carrying Indian treasures back to the Old World.  The ruins of an old pirate castle still remains at Bushiribana, on the northeast coast of the island.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Here are the ruins of the  old pirate castle  at Bushiribana,not far from Joran's place

I did some browsing through Aruban history and came up with the names Arikok Park and Tanki Flip as possible sites for old Indian villages.  I have no idea where on the island these places are located.

I found a reference to Balashi as the location where the gold was originally discovered - gold bricks?

[SS]

I thought that you might enjoy the response I received from Patrick.

[klaasend]

I thought that you might enjoy the response I received from Patrick.

What was his response?

[SS]

Sorry, I screwed up the previous post.
I wanted to share the response that I got from Patrick. He continues to focus on crime in America as if it is an excuse for what occured in Aruba, or perhaps because we also have crime it somehow makes Natalee's disappearance OK.  It's not about us Patrick.  It's all about Aruba and we didn't cause the problem, Aruba did.  Aruba needs to fix the problem and until they do, we will boycott.

Dear Mr or Mrs. Smith

I don’t see any new point of view in this that has not already been discussed. But you had not posted yet, so I give you some space. I notice again that you are also one of these scared monkeys who have consipracy on the top of their minds. It is not a diversion tactic and I don’t have fellow Arubans I even spoke with this about. Of course it is important to realize that a kid - just as example - lives in a far more dangerous world in the USA as far as crime goes, than in France, or Germany… or Aruba. In the sense of a call for a boycott that says all. Cover-ups, corruption and bad actions of dirty authorities also happen in the States. Let me say it very simple, if Natalee would have been black for instance the media would have not paid that much - if any - attention. Also that happens in your own country many times. Focus on your own faults, I have already focused on the one that happened 3 years ago in Aruba and I’m still working on it.

For the rest, see Soph, she all summed it up correctly.

Greetings,

Patrick

[johan555]

The oldest Indians need from about 2500 BC to Aruba lived. They were fishermen, hunters and gatherers and they used simple tools made of stone and shells (carcó). The oldest excavations, which Canashito and Malmok, date from Indians around and shortly after the beginning of the Christian era (500 - 800) have lived. In preparing their graves and cemeteries shows a clear, by certain male-dominated, hierarchy.
The Indians of Aruba begroeven their dead mostly in grafkuilen, sometimes in urns, in which the corpse was placed in gehurkte attitude. A few times were objects, such as bowls or pots, to the grave. Vindplaatsen were o.a. Savaneta and Santa Cruz.
The history of tourism in Aruba is a fascinating story: it has ensured that all Arubans work that is directly or indirectly connected with tourism. Also, the look of the island changed drastically: the large stream American tourists has led to far-reaching veramerikanisering of culture which, among other brands in the range of restaurants (whether or not fast-food) and the kind of entertainment. Aruba is promoted as a resort for pasgetrouwde and students have also found their way to Aruba to celebrate their so-called Spring-break or other holidays, in which all the loose brakes. That also sometimes mistake can walk, Aruba must have experienced with the affair Natalee Holloway. The American teenager disappeared without trace in 2005 after a night steps. The negative publicity associated went tourism has a proper concern recession whose effects are still felt years.

[klaasend]

Well personally I could care less what Patrick thinks