Natalee Case Discussion #748 4/17 - 4/24/08

[Observer]

John Pauly, pictured with the van der Sloots, at their residence, on the day of the principal suspect's release:

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_10_09_archive.html

[Observer]

At DIARIO, we always thought that Joran, Deepak and Satish never went with Natalee from Carlos and Charlies to the beach North of the Marriott, but that they went to Joran’s apartment, where the above-mentioned took place(Rape). That they went to the beach to get rid of her after is possible and even probable.

[Nut44x4]

I see Blogs for Natalee is still down "Bandwidth Limit Exceeded".  I haven't seen that happen to them in a very long time.  Seems odd right now as things have slowed down alot you wouldn't think they would exceed the bandwidth.

I know...it is strange. I have been waiting to get in there to get a post I made a while back and post it here, but I can't get innnnn, waaaaaaa. It has to do with the 'Patrick (NOT) knowing (NOT) Joran for 7 years' thingy.

Anyway.....O/T  Esmeralda Cazares found safe!!! Missing persons.

[Observer]

Midnight Jogger Bulletin
DIARIO Aruba
8/22/2005

Police got an anonymous tip from a person who regularly jogs very early in the morning hours, in the area of Rooi Santo and the Aruba Racquet Club.

This person is male and now his information is considered very valuable to Police.

The Police requests that the jogger get in contact with the Police spokesperson, Papito Comencia by telephone at 583-3483 or 582-4000

As of yesterday, this person has not reacted to the request. DIARIO doesn't know if there was someone there to answer the phone. An American journalist tried calling live, but one of the numbers was a fax machine and the other, no one answered.

It is known that this person (witness) possibly saw a very suspicionsly parked vehicle in the early morning hours. This would corroborate the other witness who said that he saw this vehicle, with the suspects Deepak, Satish and Joran.

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_08_21_archive.html

------------------------------------
Marriott Beach Pond Draining
Bon Dia Aruba
9/05/2005

After draining 80% of the water, they used a crane to look through the mud and found different items. There was a handbag in which there was a headband. Aside from this, the bag was full of rocks, which indicates that the person who threw it in the pond didn't want it to be found.

Aside from the handbag and the headband, they found 2 cloth bags, a machete, 2 items of drug paraphernelia and a shoe.

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_09_04_archive.html

[Tamikosmom]

I wonder if Patrick will post this submission which I just made to his blog.  I am not holding my breath.  To date ... three out three of submissions never saw the light of day.

Janet

http://patrickvandereem.nl/uncategorized/the-ongoing-boycot-aruba-saga/#comment-152
__________


Your comment is awaiting moderation.
April 20th, 2008 at 10:31 pm

Tamikosmom said:

April 20th, 2008 at 12:38 am
PATRICK’S RESPONSE
There are so many little facts that throw people off. Take this one. Prime Minister Oduber says “with heart and soul” that Joran is “persona non grata” in Aruba.

April 20th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
PATRICK’S RESPONSE
P.S. If you refer to the quote that Joran is a persona non grata in Aruba, then I can assure you Oduber said that, maybe Croes also, maybe the whole government thinks it.

+++++++++++++

‘Joran persona non grata’
Amigoe.com
02/08/2008

Justice-minister Rudy Croes does no longer want Joran van der Sloot on the island, because he has caused and is still causing a lot of damage to the image of Aruba.

ORANJESTAD – The minister of Justice, Rudy Croes has declared Joran van der Sloot, who is suspected of having murdered Natalee Holloway, persona non grata. Other than for judicial investigation, Joran van der Sloot is no longer welcome on the island.

The ministry of Justice also proposes this vote of censure in the light of a package of measures to tackle the criminality problems among Aruban and Antillean young persons in the Netherlands that is agreed on in the Dutch cabinet. The Dutch Justice-minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin is preparing a law that makes it possible to send them back to Aruba or the Antilles if necessary. “Let Joran be the first example of a Dutchman that is not wanted in Aruba”, said the minister, who also knows that judicially, it’s going to be difficult to really deny him admission to the country. “I simply do not want him here.”

Posted by Getagrip at 2/10/2008 10:28:00 AM

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2008/02/joran-persona-non-grata-amigoe.html

[Nut44x4]

At DIARIO, we always thought that Joran, Deepak and Satish never went with Natalee from Carlos and Charlies to the beach North of the Marriott, but that they went to Joran’s apartment, where the above-mentioned took place(Rape). That they went to the beach to get rid of her after is possible and even probable.

Yes, that is why Joran sticks to his final statement of 'I left her at the beach' and he feels this is not a lie because he did leave her there....for someone else to get rid of

[briany]

At DIARIO, we always thought that Joran, Deepak and Satish never went with Natalee from Carlos and Charlies to the beach North of the Marriott, but that they went to Joran’s apartment, where the above-mentioned took place(Rape). That they went to the beach to get rid of her after is possible and even probable.

Yes, that is why Joran sticks to his final statement of 'I left her at the beach' and he feels this is not a lie because he did leave her there....for someone else to get rid of

Op de dag dat het OM een huiszoeking gelast van de woning van Joran én die van de ouders, doet rechter-vriend Jacob Wit de deur open en krijgt het voor elkaar om huiszoeking in de ouderlijke woning te voorkomen, tot stomme verbazing en latere frustratie van het OM. (3)

On the day that the PPS ordered a search of the home of Joran and the parents, does Judge-friend Jacob Wit the door open and get it together to search in the parental home, to silent astonishment and subsequent frustration of the PPS. (3)

This was known years ago in Holland. Where can the misunderstanding in this be than?

[johan555]

Jacob Wit lives where?
Was the Wit only for that search on Aruba ?
That would be very surprising
I found this:
Judge Jacob Wit of the Netherlands Antilles sees itself as an important intermediary between "civil law" countries and the countries with a common law system. Wit worked 18 years as a judge on Curacao and is now one of the judges of the Caribbean Court of Justice. He is familiar with both legal systems.

[Buckeye]

Jacob Wit lives where?
Was the Wit only for that search on Aruba ?
That would be very surprising
I found this:
Judge Jacob Wit of the Netherlands Antilles sees itself as an important intermediary between "civil law" countries and the countries with a common law system. Wit worked 18 years as a judge on Curacao and is now one of the judges of the Caribbean Court of Justice. He is familiar with both legal systems.

Not sure about right now but:

The Honourable Mr. Justice Wit is married to Sheila Wit-Thodé, a native of Curaçao. They have 4 children: Demseys, Taciana, Eurydice, and Nausi­caä, all born in
Curaçao

http://www.caribbeancourtofjustice.org/judges_pages/wit.html

[johan555]

The Honourable Mr. Justice Jacob Wit


The Honourable Mr. Justice Wit is married to Sheila Wit-Thodé, a native of Curaçao.
So i think he lives not on Aruba

The Honourable Mr. Justice Jacob Wit (Netherlands Antilles) was born on 24 December 1952 in Haarlemmermeer, The Netherlands. He graduated from the Pius X Lyceum (Amsterdam) in 1971, entering in that same year the Vrije Universiteit (Free University) of Amsterdam, from which he took the degree of Master of Laws with honours in 1977. After completing his military service (1976-1978) as a Second Lieutenant in the Royal Dutch Navy, Mr. Justice Wit was admitted in March 1978 as a Judicial Trainee at the Studi­ecen­trum Rechtspleging (Training and Study Centre for the Judiciary) in Zutphen, where he remained enrolled until 1984. During this period, he held the posts of Law Clerk in the Rotterdam District Court, Rot­ter­dam, (1978-1980) and Deputy Prosecutor at the Amsterdam District Court (1980-1982) and worked as an attorney-at-law with the Law Firm of Van Doorne & Sjollema in Rotterdam.

Mr. Justice Wit was appointed by Her Majesty Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands as Deputy Judge of the Rotterdam District Court in January 1984, Judge of the Rotterdam District Court in March 1985 and Judge of the Joint Court of Justice of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba on 1 October 1988. This Court consists of two Courts of First Instance (Netherlands Antilles, Aruba) and a Court of Appeal. Resident in Curaçao since 1986, from then to the present, Mr. Justice Wit has presided over or sat in the Court of Appeal, but mainly presided in the Courts of First Instan­ce over a wide range of cases, involving: civil law (contract, tort, property, succession), commercial and admiralty law, insurance, bankruptcy and (cross border) insolvency, company law and intellectual property, criminal law (serious crime, government corruption, international fraud, money laundering), military law, administrative law, constitutional law and international human rights law.

Over this period, he has acquired significant expertise in various posts within the Joint Court of Justice system: as Coordinating Judge, Court of First Instance, Curacao (1993-1996); Coordinator Judge of Instruction, Netherlands Antilles (1994-1997); Coordinating Judge for the Dutch Windward Islands of Sint Maarten, Sint Eustatius and Saba (1997-2001) and from 2001 to the present as Senior Justice and Acting Chief Justice. The Honourable Mr. Justice Jacob Wit took the Oath of Office as a Judge of the Caribbean Court of Justice (CCJ) at The President's House Port of Spain, on Wednesday 1 June 2005. The oath was administered by His Excellency Professor George Maxwell Richards, President of the Republic of Trinidad & Tobago.

Off the Bench, Mr. Justice Wit has served as Chairman of the Committee of Supervision of the Nether­lands Antilles' Prisons and Houses of Detention (1987-1991); Chairman of the Board of Discipline for Medical Doctors (1992-1995); President of the Military Court of the Nether­lands Antilles (1992-present); Chairman of the Judicial Working Groups on (a) Videoconfe­ren­cing in Court and (b) Code of Ethics for the Judiciary (2003-present); and Chairman of the Committee of Supervision of the Securi­ty Servi­ce of Aruba (2004-present). He has also been a member of the National Committee On Revising the Codes of Crimi­nal Procedure of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba (1987-1998); and Vice-President of the National Committee On Revi­sing the Crimi­nal Code of the Netherlands Antilles (2002-present).

The Honourable Judge has earned an international reputation as organiser of or presenter at important international legal conferences in various territories of the Dutch, French and Commonwealth Caribbean, one highlight of these activities being as Judicial panellist (together with the Hon. Burton Lifland, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge for the Southern District of New York) in London in 2000 with a contribution on "Cross Border Insol­vencies: A Judicial Perspective of the Cooperation and Coordi­nation Between Civil and Common Law Jurisdictions".

Some of Mr. Justice Wit's assignments in recent times have brought him into close contact with Judiciaries of the English, French and Spanish speaking Caribbean. He has led judicial delegations to Antigua & Barbuda (1997) and Cuba (2002) for the purpo­se of obtaining evidence in high profile criminal cases in those territories. In his role as judicial educator, the Honourable Judge has been involved in conducting training workshops and seminars for judicial trainees and Judges from Surina­me, Haiti, and the Commonwealth Caribbean. He speaks English, French, German, Dutch and Papiamento, with a passive knowledge of Spanish.

The Honourable Mr. Justice Wit is married to Sheila Wit-Thodé, a native of Curaçao. They have 4 children: Demseys, Taciana, Eurydice, and Nausi­caä, all born in Curaçao
 

 

[johan555]

you are fast today Buckeye !!

[dennisintn]

Gerold Dompig
On the Record /w Greta
October 9, 2005

Reporter: Okay, let me ask you about the search of Joran Van der Sloot house. Apparently this kid lived in an apartment that was connected to or sort of adjacent to his parents house.

Dompig: That is correct

Reporter: And the police only searched his apartment, deputy chief?

Dompig: That is correct. The fact is that we as a law enforcement agency always try to get the maximum. Meaning that we want to search as much places as possible. We were not granted by the judge a search warrant for the complete house, we only received the warrant for the apartment.

Reporter: But what about after Paul Van der Sloot was arrested, couldn’t you get a warrant to search the house then?

Dompig: It was also denied, we were a bit disappointed with that. The judge was coming from another island I must point out. He said we didn’t make a good enough case to get a warrant.
Transcript: SMS/Sleuth

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/10/10/beth-twitty-credibility-1-nay-sayers-0/

[/quote]

but anita made a big deal of describing the horrific search done of the entire grounds including tearing up flowers in the garden and moving everything in the house.  of course, she had just finished one of her lies about how good a sporter jvds was, so why would we have believed her search lies.
dennisintn

[bleachedblack]

Klaas if you get a moment and can mark in missing persons BODY FOUND Nadia Kajouji. TIA

[Lala'sMom]

O/T but very important!!
 Please check the prayer request thread and read Katysmom's request.  She needs us for support and prayer. Thanks.

[WhiskeyGirl]

I wonder if Patrick will post this submission which I just made to his blog.  I am not holding my breath.  To date ... three out three of submissions never saw the light of day.

Janet

http://patrickvandereem.nl/uncategorized/the-ongoing-boycot-aruba-saga/#comment-152
__________


Your comment is awaiting moderation.
April 20th, 2008 at 10:31 pm

Tamikosmom said:

April 20th, 2008 at 12:38 am
PATRICK’S RESPONSE
There are so many little facts that throw people off. Take this one. Prime Minister Oduber says “with heart and soul” that Joran is “persona non grata” in Aruba.

April 20th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
PATRICK’S RESPONSE
P.S. If you refer to the quote that Joran is a persona non grata in Aruba, then I can assure you Oduber said that, maybe Croes also, maybe the whole government thinks it.

+++++++++++++

‘Joran persona non grata’
Amigoe.com
02/08/2008

Justice-minister Rudy Croes does no longer want Joran van der Sloot on the island, because he has caused and is still causing a lot of damage to the image of Aruba.

ORANJESTAD – The minister of Justice, Rudy Croes has declared Joran van der Sloot, who is suspected of having murdered Natalee Holloway, persona non grata. Other than for judicial investigation, Joran van der Sloot is no longer welcome on the island.

The ministry of Justice also proposes this vote of censure in the light of a package of measures to tackle the criminality problems among Aruban and Antillean young persons in the Netherlands that is agreed on in the Dutch cabinet. The Dutch Justice-minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin is preparing a law that makes it possible to send them back to Aruba or the Antilles if necessary. “Let Joran be the first example of a Dutchman that is not wanted in Aruba”, said the minister, who also knows that judicially, it’s going to be difficult to really deny him admission to the country. “I simply do not want him here.”

Posted by Getagrip at 2/10/2008 10:28:00 AM

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2008/02/joran-persona-non-grata-amigoe.html

There are some options available for those that do not want Joran on Aruba 

~  Start by telling the truth.  IMHO, Aruba is harmed by those that have "botched" the investigation, misdirected the investigation, spread rumors about the island and the family, and failed to follow-up on belts, bones, and other pieces of evidence that have been handed over in good faith to ALE.

~ Address the concerns about nepotism, cronyism, and favoritism.

~ Identify what is a 'conflict on interest' when it involves members of the judiciary, law enforcement, and public officials.  What can be done to make justice transparent?

~ Where does the 'buck stop' on Aruba?

~ If Joran were any Aruban's son, how would this case have been different?

~  If Natalee were an Aruban daughter, how would this case be different?

~ At the end of the day, what do the hard working and family oriented of Aruba find answers?

In my opinion, there are many on Aruba with answers to this case.

[dennisintn]

On the day that the PPS ordered a search of the home of Joran and the parents, does Judge-friend Jacob Wit the door open and get it together to search in the parental home, to silent astonishment and subsequent frustration of the PPS. (3)

This was known years ago in Holland. Where can the misunderstanding in this be than?
[/quote]

on the good morning america show, anita told about how extensively the whole house and grounds were searched that day.  even told us about flowers being destroyed in the yard.  of course the pro-sloot group took that as gospel and repeated it at every chance they get.
dennisintn

[Observer]

The signs said Natalee was partying in Brazil,Joran was innocent until proven guilty and they were clearly protesting against Beth..



-------------
SCARBOROUGH: You know—you know, Julia, a lot of people—we've been hearing a lot of Arubans have been angry at Natalee Holloway's family, believing that they've been too aggressive in seeking the truth. What's the feeling right now? Do you believe that most Arubans are now supportive of the family or do you think that was a gross overstatement? That was just 200 people protesting?

JULIA RENFRO, EDITOR IN CHIEF, “ARUBA TODAY”: It was not 200 people protesting. It was 200 people demonstrating what Aruba was about, the friendliness of the island, that Aruba was turning into a welcome mat that was just being absolutely stepped on.

No question about it. I was there at the protest demonstration. And it was all about, this is who we are. This is our justice system. We believe in our justice system. Let it prevail.

SCARBOROUGH: Do you think, though—I mean, you say it wasn't a protest. Do you—were there, though, many people there that were angry with Natalee Holloway's family and believed that the family was too aggressive?

RENFRO: No, it wasn't about that at all. Absolutely not. It was how it was being presented by different networks. That's all it was about.

Nobody was upset with Mrs. Twitty. Everyone knows that she has missed her—missing her daughter. And everyone feels for that. Arubans have—all people have been out there looking, searching, crying and praying for the return of Natalee Holloway.

- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551823/
========================
Faces behind some of the evil reporting out of Aruba.

[SS]

‘Joran persona non grata’
Amigoe.com
02/08/2008

Justice-minister Rudy Croes does no longer want Joran van der Sloot on the island, because he has caused and is still causing a lot of damage to the image of Aruba.

ORANJESTAD – The minister of Justice, Rudy Croes has declared Joran van der Sloot, who is suspected of having murdered Natalee Holloway, persona non grata. Other than for judicial investigation, Joran van der Sloot is no longer welcome on the island.



Rudy is tight with the Sloots.  Didn't I read that he is Godfather to the youngest Sloot?  This statement was either for effect after the video aired, or maybe Rudy felt he'd have another homicide on his hands if Joran appeared.  We'll no doubt see Joran back on Aruba before long.

[dennisintn]

[

~ Address the concerns about nepotism, cronyism, and favoritism.

~ Identify what is a 'conflict on interest' when it involves members of the judiciary, law enforcement, and public officials.  What can be done to make justice transparent?

~ Where does the 'buck stop' on Aruba?

~ If Joran were any Aruban's son, how would this case have been different?

~  If Natalee were an Aruban daughter, how would this case be different?

~ At the end of the day, what do the hard working and family oriented of Aruba find answers?

In my opinion, there are many on Aruba with answers to this case.
[/quote]

remember the l6 yr. old aruban girl who was gangraped with the boys and man taking pictures on their cell phones.  the girl had to be sent off-island to finish schooling, the men were not charged, nor were their cell phones confiscated.  diario ran an editorial asking that the men please delete the pics from their phones and to please not put them on the internet.  that should give you a picture of what arubans think of all women.
dennisintn

[SS]

The signs said Natalee was partying in Brazil,Joran was innocent until proven guilty and they were clearly protesting against Beth..



-------------
SCARBOROUGH: You know—you know, Julia, a lot of people—we've been hearing a lot of Arubans have been angry at Natalee Holloway's family, believing that they've been too aggressive in seeking the truth. What's the feeling right now? Do you believe that most Arubans are now supportive of the family or do you think that was a gross overstatement? That was just 200 people protesting?

JULIA RENFRO, EDITOR IN CHIEF, “ARUBA TODAY”: It was not 200 people protesting. It was 200 people demonstrating what Aruba was about, the friendliness of the island, that Aruba was turning into a welcome mat that was just being absolutely stepped on.

No question about it. I was there at the protest demonstration. And it was all about, this is who we are. This is our justice system. We believe in our justice system. Let it prevail.

SCARBOROUGH: Do you think, though—I mean, you say it wasn't a protest. Do you—were there, though, many people there that were angry with Natalee Holloway's family and believed that the family was too aggressive?

RENFRO: No, it wasn't about that at all. Absolutely not. It was how it was being presented by different networks. That's all it was about.

Nobody was upset with Mrs. Twitty. Everyone knows that she has missed her—missing her daughter. And everyone feels for that. Arubans have—all people have been out there looking, searching, crying and praying for the return of Natalee Holloway.

- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551823/
===========================
Faces behind some of the evil reporting out of Aruba.

Yup, Right, Sure Thing  Julia.

     If the information that CAPS has given us is correct, and Julia was actually there that fateful night with her camera,  I think that I will go absolutely nuts.  How could she meet Beth the next day and search the island with her, knowing what had really happened?  Julia pretends to be Beth's friend after participating in Natalee's fateful night.    OMG, what a betrayal. How could a woman be part of a sick activity like the porn party where young girls are being taken advantage of?