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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #750 5/2 - 5/8/08  (Read 287000 times)
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Destiny
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« Reply #780 on: May 07, 2008, 06:27:00 PM »

I'm no authority, but I do not think a 'hidden thread' is possible in this forum.  If it is, then I would think Dugga would have to do some tweaking. 

Destiny ... I am almost positive that it is.  A hidden thread would only be visible to those Monkeys who indicated that they are interested in assisting and ... only those Monkeys could access it.

Anyway ... I am game ... whatever I can do.  I believe that all your efforts getting this project off the ground as well as the cooperation of Diario implies ... the opportunity has to be taken advantage of.

Janet

Thanks Janet...I agree....
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

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« Reply #781 on: May 07, 2008, 06:30:35 PM »

Open letter to the Good People of Aruba from the World Wide Advocates for Natalee Holloway

This open letter is to alert you that Justice has still not been carried out or achieved in Natalee's case. It has been three years since Natalee was last seen getting into a car with Joran Van Der Sloot, and Brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe. A long time has past and no one has been held accountable for the crimes committed against her and her family.

At least one of the suspects has recently admitted he was with her when she died and he called a friend to dispose of her body at sea. According to this suspect - Joran Van Der Sloot - he admits that he does not even know if she was dead. We believe at this point there is no doubt that Natalee is no longer alive given the statements made to Patrick van der Eem. We all wish Natalee were alive and would someday be reunited with her loving Family. Unfortunately, that will not happen and it's heartbreaking to her family to know they will never see Natalee again in this lifetime.

I appeal to you, the good people of Aruba, to rise up and make you voices heard, to hold Natalee in the high esteem as you would a member of your own family or even you very own child.

You, the good people of Aruba, can make a difference and help Lady Justice. It is your voices that need to be heard. We have, over the last three years, made Natalee's cause for Justice a very high priority and now call on you, the Good People of Aruba, to do likewise. To rise up and demand that rapists and killers do not walk the streets where they make strike at you next. To make sure that Aruba is a just society free from racial discrimination, sexism, nepotism, cronyism and corruption.

A society wrought with corruption and malfeasance will only breed contempt for those on the low rungs of the totem pole. Aruba should be a society where all members are welcome and are free to achieve their dreams and wishes. It should not be a society where those with the connections use those connection to further their own greed and corruption. And most importantly, to cover up the murder of a little girl.

Presently Aruba has seen some very hard times due to the Natalee Holloway case. Tourists do not wish to spend their hard earned dollars on a vacation that does not afford all members of society equal justice. It is the weakest and smallest that need protection more than all others. They are often the victims of crimes and find themselves victimized all over again when Justice is denied.

I appeal to the Good People of Aruba to rise up and make your voices heard, to demand that Justice be served, to ensure that All receive the bare minimum that Justice provides. I appeal to the Good People of Aruba to ensure your own peace and prosperity that the tourist's dollars delivers.

Only you, the Good People of Aruba, can make our voices heard and help to deliver Justice to Natalee and her loving Family. We appeal to you, to make those voices sing in unison and rise above the petty bickering that has divided Aruba from the rest of the world. We appeal to you to make your voices heard in the next election and to use your vote to end Injustice for Natalee.


++++++++++++++

that's pretty much all I have.

++++++++++++++

I'm very happy to hear our Girl Klaas is home and hopefully will be feeling top notch again shortly... We love you Klaas!!!
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« Reply #782 on: May 07, 2008, 06:31:52 PM »

Texasmom, you have email....
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« Reply #783 on: May 07, 2008, 06:33:49 PM »

Exactly GBMW, the Sloots have got to be totally fed up with Jorans antics at this point. Apart from his alleged criminal wrongs, this latest stint on the plane,and previously the wine in DeVries face to name but a few......he is a miserable excuse of an off spring and they should try the tough love and stop pandering to his actions.

Paulus & Anita are certainly not naive when it comes to their golden boy.....that must have stopped a long time ago already. I just don't think that highly of the Sloots' parenting abilities. I will change my mind when I see them both kicking that kid towards the policestation.

Yes, Anita was quoted saying they wanted to move on because "they had two other sons you know". And this reaction to Marts letter...it proves they're not defending him in the media as much anymore. I'm just hoping it will lead to a bit more action than the silent way they're doing at the moment.

For me it is just another example that yes...they know what kind of person Joran is (for a long time already I might add) & what he is capable of but don't step up in any way.
But again: I haven't read the complete letter of course so can't really judge. But I think Peter didn't mention it like this if that wasn't the average response in total in that letter / e-mail or whatever it was.



GBMW ... I am "inclined to believe" that the past three years has not been about protecting Joran from accepting the consequences of his actions on the morning of May 30, 2005 ... it is all about protecting Paulus.

Think about ... if the truth was revealed at the getgo ... no coverup was established and ... Joran, Deepak, Satish and "friends" were implicated for the "something bad that happened" to Natalee at the VDS' residence ... there is still the question regarding where her remains were taken.  The truth ... at that point ... would implicated Paulus.

I truly believe ... if Paulus had not entered the picture ... Joran, Deepak, Satish and "others" would have been held accountable.  Considering Paulus connections the consequences would have probably been a slap on each of their wrists.  Nevertheless ... the truth would imply Natalee Holloway would have received a measure of justice and ... her family would have received a measure of closure and ... the Natalee Holloway story would now be a distance memory.

I truly believe ... that Natalee Holloway's death was not anticipated not premeditated.  I speculate the plan ... which was carried out "twenty time" before without a hitch ... was to bring a drugged Natalee back to the VDS' residence ... sexually assault her ... take her to the beach to sleep it off and ... then she would make her way to the hotel without any memory of what happened and ... then catch the plane home to the States.

However ... this time the plan went terribly wrong.

Janet

In keeping with my 'Joran protests to much/gives too much info theory,'  I now see why it was so terribly important to have a condom (not just one, however, several of them).  I feel that he leaks some of the truth in each lie.  It can be a word or a phrase or a concept.  In this case, I have been wondering why he felt the need to use the idea of the 'condom.'  Bear with me as I take the long road around this.
 
Anyone being gang raped, would have a lot of pain. 

A virgin, never having had sex before may think that this is the way it feels after her first time.  If someone made sure that she could not remember the actual rape, she may think she had sex with only the person she left a bar with the night before.  If drinking and partying are not things she usually does, she may be too embarrassed to report this as a rape or may think of it as her fault.  Maybe this is even the way it happened 20 times before. 

To pull this off, it would be very important for the perps to wear condoms.  If this woman had conceived as a result of this rape, the jig would be up for the perps.  She may reveal who she believed to be the father. 

This scenario would be bad for the perps for a number of reasons.  One, it could come to light that this woman was not sober enough to give consent and the perp she left the bar with could be charged with rape.  This is something a person well-versed in the law would think of (Joran knows the law in and out, that is why he can exploit it so much).  Another reason could be that the father was someone other than the perp she left the bar with.  This is where the $h!t really hits the fan as the whole scam would be exposed. 

The truth could be that one or more of the perps could not have sex with her because they did not have enough condoms.

In a scenario where a rape occurred and there was only one rapist, the perp could have wanted to have sex with her more than once (drug enhancement)  and he did not have enough condoms left.  What if this perp had to call several people before he found someone willing to give him a ride to commit this crime?  This detail (stopping for more condoms) could have been forgotten in his frustration to actually get to the bar.  (He may have even gotten there late).  He would have gone down the line of driver preference to get this ride, maybe even having to settle for a ride with someone he uses mainly for this purpose. 

This is jmo, of course.
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Destiny
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« Reply #784 on: May 07, 2008, 06:39:36 PM »

there is always webex...

Ali....


Beautiful Letter....do  you mind if *we* work with your heart felt feelings?....Bless You....
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
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« Reply #785 on: May 07, 2008, 06:40:21 PM »

THIS JUST IN......


Hi xxxxxxx

How are you today. I have checked about the full page ad that you want to put in the newspaper with Mr. Mansur and he has said to me if you can send the article that we can see if it cost about it of it will be free of charge.

One full page normaly is $500,- in bw

But try to send me the article than we will se how it will cost.

 

Bye

xxxxxxxx


Monkeys....as I posted yesterday....*if* the article is written to the locals, in a way that is sympathetic with their burden of how this case has affected them...they will run our full page ad in the same issue that *they* run the one dealing with the perps/corruption....at no cost to me/us....it would include one color photo of Natalee...as far as I'm concerned...it's a *win-win* situation.....feedback please....Idstlou....Thank You for contacting Jug/Beth and getting their approval....we have a tight timeline to work with...help!

Destiny

Do you Folks want me to try and write a full page ad/article by myself....Please let me know if this is the case....it took me many phone calls and emails to get it to this point....I *talk* great....I used to negotiate major inter industry contracts in Silicon Valley...but that was all done in meetings in person...I will try to write this...but...I thought there was some interest in doing this as a group...with me picking up the expenses...I'm in too deep with contacts now....to just drop it all...

What say you....

TIA...Destiny

I say, you could talk a vegetarian into having a nice juicy steak for dinner.  Go for it.
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« Reply #786 on: May 07, 2008, 06:44:09 PM »

Open letter to the Good People of Aruba from the World Wide Advocates for Natalee Holloway

This open letter is to alert you that Justice has still not been carried out or achieved in Natalee's case. It has been three years since Natalee was last seen getting into a car with Joran Van Der Sloot, and Brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe. A long time has past and no one has been held accountable for the crimes committed against her and her family.

At least one of the suspects has recently admitted he was with her when she died and he called a friend to dispose of her body at sea. According to this suspect - Joran Van Der Sloot - he admits that he does not even know if she was dead. We believe at this point there is no doubt that Natalee is no longer alive given the statements made to Patrick van der Eem. We all wish Natalee were alive and would someday be reunited with her loving Family. Unfortunately, that will not happen and it's heartbreaking to her family to know they will never see Natalee again in this lifetime.

I appeal to you, the good people of Aruba, to rise up and make you voices heard, to hold Natalee in the high esteem as you would a member of your own family or even you very own child.

You, the good people of Aruba, can make a difference and help Lady Justice. It is your voices that need to be heard. We have, over the last three years, made Natalee's cause for Justice a very high priority and now call on you, the Good People of Aruba, to do likewise. To rise up and demand that rapists and killers do not walk the streets where they make strike at you next. To make sure that Aruba is a just society free from racial discrimination, sexism, nepotism, cronyism and corruption.

A society wrought with corruption and malfeasance will only breed contempt for those on the low rungs of the totem pole. Aruba should be a society where all members are welcome and are free to achieve their dreams and wishes. It should not be a society where those with the connections use those connection to further their own greed and corruption. And most importantly, to cover up the murder of a little girl.

Presently Aruba has seen some very hard times due to the Natalee Holloway case. Tourists do not wish to spend their hard earned dollars on a vacation that does not afford all members of society equal justice. It is the weakest and smallest that need protection more than all others. They are often the victims of crimes and find themselves victimized all over again when Justice is denied.

I appeal to the Good People of Aruba to rise up and make your voices heard, to demand that Justice be served, to ensure that All receive the bare minimum that Justice provides. I appeal to the Good People of Aruba to ensure your own peace and prosperity that the tourist's dollars delivers.

Only you, the Good People of Aruba, can make our voices heard and help to deliver Justice to Natalee and her loving Family. We appeal to you, to make those voices sing in unison and rise above the petty bickering that has divided Aruba from the rest of the world. We appeal to you to make your voices heard in the next election and to use your vote to end Injustice for Natalee.


++++++++++++++

that's pretty much all I have.

++++++++++++++

I'm very happy to hear our Girl Klaas is home and hopefully will be feeling top notch again shortly... We love you Klaas!!!

Great heart speaking here.....
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
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« Reply #787 on: May 07, 2008, 06:59:15 PM »

Rob, your letter is impressive, however I would want to run it by an attorney...If you mention someones name, however guilty, and it causes them harm, ie, they cannot get a job because of it, you could be guilty of slander......Im not an attorney but Im pretty sure this is right...
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« Reply #788 on: May 07, 2008, 07:03:34 PM »

How can I help?

Do you have a *secure* web place...that we can work...keep the trolls out....Also...should we do it in Pap...Dutch...and English....THANK YOU!!!!

Of course I would be willing to help! So if there's anything you want me to do / you think I can do...let me know!

And I would suggest to do it in Pap & Dutch...the most common languages...to cover just about everybody...jmo of course.
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« Reply #789 on: May 07, 2008, 07:09:01 PM »

******* if you have a moment(I see you just signed in ) can you please edit in Missing Persons for me? TIA

Susan Marie Casey  BODY FOUND

I got it BB
« Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 07:22:06 PM by Observer » Logged

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« Reply #790 on: May 07, 2008, 07:36:59 PM »

Destiny...I have somewriting skills..lol...and tyoe like sh^t....lol
For now i am just gonna send you best wishes on the article.

Maybe could get MJ for a poster boy... newspaper hawker somewhere?

....nah.....he'd go "suddenly missing"
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« Reply #791 on: May 07, 2008, 07:40:29 PM »


Hey Monkeys   
Just peeking in ...  and then jumping out...want to say I'm glad Klaasend is on the mend  and want to leave a thought for the Dairo add that the good people of Aurba should look into and demand answers to.  Yes we are not sure that the statements we have are 100% accurate.   Someone way better with words and details might be able to make since of these thoughts and presumed facts for me.

It goes back to the 1st statements made by Joran, Deepak and Satish on May 31, 2005.

Joran was picked up from school by Paulis because ??? had requested that Joran come in and give a statement.
Jorans statement was taken by ??  at about    ???  on May 31, 2005   with Paulis in attendance since Joran was a minor at that time.  Deepak was next at 3:30 PM and Satish at 7:20 PM.  Communitaction between these indiviudals did occur..during this time. In fact Joran called Deepak during his statement to ask him a question.


#1 Who was present / conducted the interview with Joran?
#2 Why was the Fisherman's hut brought up during the Kalpoe's  interviews?
#3 If Joran did mention the Fisherman's huts  why was the desrepiency with the Kalpoe's statement NOT looked into / resolved then  versus 10+ days later?

The people of Aruba should be able to trust and get answers from those that govern them.
JMO   TIA
Wishing ya all the best.. TTYL 

SeeYaByeeeee
OldFart

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May 31, 2005 Dennis Dominico JACOBS and Shaniro Baldrik KELLY  with Deepak
"On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea;
I will answer you no."

May 31, 2005  Dennis Dominico JACOBS  with Satish
"On your question if Joran and the girl had gotten out of the car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea;
I answer you no. Joran and the girl never got out of Deepak’s car."


June 9, 2005  Dennis Domenico JACOBS and Luigi Angelo Giovanni CROES with Joran
"You are informing me that when I was first interviewed as a witness that I told the detective that Natalee and me got out of the car close to/near Fisherman's Hut and walked in the sea. To your question as to what I can state about that, I answer you that I did not say that. It also isn't in my witness statement"

JORAN - JUNE 13TH 2005
Proces-verbaal findings

I, Jan van der STRATEN, police chief with the Aruban Police Corps, state the following.

On Monday June 13th 2005, at approximately 13.00 hours I spoke informally with the suspect Joran Andreas Petrus v/d SLOOT at the police station in Oranjestad.

On my question to Joran whether he can tell me what happened after the girl had fallen asleep on the beach near Fisherman's Hut, he answered:

“I called DEEPAK and he came with two dogs. I think he raped the girl and did something to her.”

To my question where the girl was buried then, he answered:
“I think that it was buried then next to the wall of the Fisherman's Hut, for the rest I would not know either.”

June 14, 2005   We, Dennis Domenico JACOBS and Luigi Angelo Giovanni CROES  with Joran
"After that we walked in the direction of Fisherman's Huts"



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« Reply #792 on: May 07, 2008, 07:42:19 PM »

Yes. great letter Rob.  I did not mean to be flip about MJ hawking it.

I hope is receives the attentiona and support it deserves!
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« Reply #793 on: May 07, 2008, 07:50:41 PM »


How strange.... Today in matter of fact, the ALE got this special dog that is trained to sniff drugs, money and human remains.

it has arrived yesterday.
 


Now there's a novel idea.

Where do they get these dogs from?  Don't they have one handy on the island?

It seems to me that even smaller places in the U.S. have K-9 units and easy access to working dogs.   imho

IIRC, and maybe I am wrong, but didn't they use drug dogs in the beginning to search the VDS property?  They didn't have a dog to track human beings or their remains?
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« Reply #794 on: May 07, 2008, 08:18:44 PM »

I am trying to imagine...lol....
all the drug sniffing dogs chasing after the police officers and hotel security staff.....

Now there is a U tube moment.
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« Reply #795 on: May 07, 2008, 08:23:00 PM »

I read here all the time and rarely post - I am very happy Klaasend is doing well.  I do have a suggestion regarding the letter Destiney is composing.  I think it would be wise to somehow incorporate after the letter(and thanks Rob for your input too about the letter) the fact that they lied and all of the statements contradict each other.  I remember a while back some Monkey's were making a list of questions they wanted answers too.  And the questions made you think Hmn - I would like to see them posted in Dario as well as the article and letter.  The link for questions is at SM but I can't remember where.  Any help to find the link appreciated but I think, and this is just my opinion, you have to be careful when requesting info from the Aruban people.  Culture and ethnics etc are different.  As well as other things.  I don't live in Aruba, but it seems that is the case.  I live in USA.

And thank you all monkeys for all of your work and insight on the case.  My opinion is the same as most.  I enjoy reading here every day.
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« Reply #796 on: May 07, 2008, 08:25:33 PM »

Front page Scaredmonkeys.com

Texas Equusearch Maybe Searching For Jose Manuel Vencenzo Tromp Missing in Aruba Since November 27, 2007
 

It appears that there is another missing person in Aruba. This time its one of their own. Jose Manuel Vicenzo Tromp has been missing in Aruba since November 27, 2007. Will the ALE care to investigate this case of an Aruban missing in Aruba? Its not like it will affect tourism, so one wonders whether it will be swept under the rug.

According to Tim Miller of TES, the family has contacted Texas EquuSearch to come to Aruba and help search for missing Jose Manuel Vencenzo Tromp. Texas Equusearch who went to Aruba multiple times in search of Natalee Holloway may now being going back to Aruna to search for one of Aruba’s own.

Aruba_missing_josetromp

Jose Manuel Vicenzo Tromp, age 30, disappeared on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 in Oranjestad, Aruba and has not been seen or heard from since.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 08:33:53 PM by Observer » Logged

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« Reply #797 on: May 07, 2008, 08:34:19 PM »

I read here all the time and rarely post - I am very happy Klaasend is doing well.  I do have a suggestion regarding the letter Destiney is composing.  I think it would be wise to somehow incorporate after the letter(and thanks Rob for your input too about the letter) the fact that they lied and all of the statements contradict each other.  I remember a while back some Monkey's were making a list of questions they wanted answers too.  And the questions made you think Hmn - I would like to see them posted in Dario as well as the article and letter.  The link for questions is at SM but I can't remember where.  Any help to find the link appreciated but I think, and this is just my opinion, you have to be careful when requesting info from the Aruban people.  Culture and ethnics etc are different.  As well as other things.  I don't live in Aruba, but it seems that is the case.  I live in USA.

And thank you all monkeys for all of your work and insight on the case.  My opinion is the same as most.  I enjoy reading here every day.


Hi Maria.

             
Old Fart had a good head start there, a few posts back.

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« Reply #798 on: May 07, 2008, 08:51:10 PM »

Destiny,
I don't write well, but there are many here that do.
I think most are excited about your efforts.
Why not start a thread and write it just like you would
talk it, then others can make suggestions?  JMO

I can't...I've been sendint them inside info...that they are currently investigating....I hope you understand....it's a quid pro quo situation...to get what we want....not good to post on a public forum...ya know what I mean?

Then my suggestion would be to keep it short.  People lose interest
after a few sentences.  Maybe you and Richard and do it by e-mail.
Does that sound dirty?

How does one lose interest....does this mean...if I just don't follow the current thread.....all my work is *out of sight...out of mind*?

No offence to you Dear.......Hugs to You...Des...

Destiny,  I am jumping in here and maybe someone already address this. But what i think Magnolia meant is do not put a page full of veribage in the ad.  People will read so much and then tune out.  Keep some white space and ad more pictures.  It is an old ad writing trick really, get their attention with the key facts, support with pictures, and let the white space draw their attention to what you really want them to read. 

and by the way Magnolia..that was funny! (the dirty part)
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« Reply #799 on: May 07, 2008, 08:53:53 PM »


Hey Monkeys   
Just peeking in ...  and then jumping out...want to say I'm glad Klaasend is on the mend  and want to leave a thought for the Dairo add that the good people of Aurba should look into and demand answers to.  Yes we are not sure that the statements we have are 100% accurate.   Someone way better with words and details might be able to make since of these thoughts and presumed facts for me.

It goes back to the 1st statements made by Joran, Deepak and Satish on May 31, 2005.

Joran was picked up from school by Paulis because ??? had requested that Joran come in and give a statement.
Jorans statement was taken by ??  at about    ???  on May 31, 2005   with Paulis in attendance since Joran was a minor at that time.  Deepak was next at 3:30 PM and Satish at 7:20 PM.  Communitaction between these indiviudals did occur..during this time. In fact Joran called Deepak during his statement to ask him a question.


#1 Who was present / conducted the interview with Joran?
#2 Why was the Fisherman's hut brought up during the Kalpoe's  interviews?
#3 If Joran did mention the Fisherman's huts  why was the desrepiency with the Kalpoe's statement NOT looked into / resolved then  versus 10+ days later?

The people of Aruba should be able to trust and get answers from those that govern them.
JMO   TIA
Wishing ya all the best.. TTYL 

SeeYaByeeeee
OldFart

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May 31, 2005 Dennis Dominico JACOBS and Shaniro Baldrik KELLY  with Deepak
"On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea;
I will answer you no."

May 31, 2005  Dennis Dominico JACOBS  with Satish
"On your question if Joran and the girl had gotten out of the car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea;
I answer you no. Joran and the girl never got out of Deepak’s car."


June 9, 2005  Dennis Domenico JACOBS and Luigi Angelo Giovanni CROES with Joran

"You are informing me that when I was first interviewed as a witness that I told the detective that Natalee and me got out of the car close to/near Fisherman's Hut and walked in the sea. To your question as to what I can state about that, I answer you that I did not say that. It also isn't in my witness statement"


JORAN - JUNE 13TH 2005
Proces-verbaal findings

I, Jan van der STRATEN, police chief with the Aruban Police Corps, state the following.

On Monday June 13th 2005, at approximately 13.00 hours I spoke informally with the suspect Joran Andreas Petrus v/d SLOOT at the police station in Oranjestad.

On my question to Joran whether he can tell me what happened after the girl had fallen asleep on the beach near Fisherman's Hut, he answered:

I called DEEPAK and he came with two dogs. I think he raped the girl and did something to her.”

To my question where the girl was buried then, he answered:
“I think that it was buried then next to the wall of the Fisherman's Hut, for the rest I would not know either.”

June 14, 2005   We, Dennis Domenico JACOBS and Luigi Angelo Giovanni CROES  with Joran

"After that we walked in the direction of Fisherman's Huts"



http://onlineslangdictionary.com/thesaurus/words+meaning+friend.html

The Online Slang Dictionary

dog
 
noun


1.  an unattractive person.
They're such a dog!

2.  a friend. Also dawg.
What's up, dog?
He's my dog.
Logged

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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