The Anti-Christ

[Auntiem]

  It is an alarming fact that doctors cannot assist in the Euthanasia of convicted criminals because it is against the Hippocratic oath (how well named), yet they can perform not only abortions but "partial birth".  Does anyone here realize what that really is???  That is a living, moving baby, that would most likely survive outside the womb.

   Any doctor who can do that is a murderer, because that is what he is doing.  He is murdering a thumb sucking, smiling, crying baby. Not an embryo, a baby!!!

[Dihannah1]

  It is an alarming fact that doctors cannot assist in the Euthanasia of convicted criminals because it is against the Hippocratic oath (how well named), yet they can perform not only abortions but "partial birth".  Does anyone here realize what that really is???  That is a living, moving baby, that would most likely survive outside the womb.

   Any doctor who can do that is a murderer, because that is what he is doing.  He is murdering a thumb sucking, smiling, crying baby. Not an embryo, a baby!!!

AMEN!  It's disgusting!  I don't think everybody does realize what it means.  I know I didn't at first until I did my own research.  I was totally appalled.   And Barack thinks it's ok?????  He even agreed that if his own daughters ever got pregnant at a young age, he would support an abortion by them, as he doesn't want them to have that "BURDEN"!  KILL HIS OWN GRANDBABIES, because it's an inconvienence?!   Has he heard of ADOPTION!!!!!  Our country is going down hill fast, the last thing we need is his "change", if it means such liberal and ungodly 'change'.  He may not be the anti-christ, but he will sure help put us in a fast track to disaster!

[crazybabyborg]

Anytime the question of when life begins is raised, Jeremiah 1:5 always comes to my mind:

 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
       before you were born I set you apart;

That perspective sort of settles it for me.

[Auntiem]

  I didn't research this topic, I could not bring myself to it.  My oldest daughter was telling me about a documentary she had recently seen, showing one.  I had to stop her.  I got it and as you said it's disgusting, worse, it's a doctor actually murdering a fully formed, viable fetus.....a little helpless baby.  Yet he will not or is not allowed by law, due to his Oath of Hippocrates, to inject a condemned murderer.   I believe that these late abortions are legal in most states, again most likely, more states pemit doctors to murder babies than allow Capital punishment.........Ahh, but that's the Liberals again, kill babies but not criminals,...... the proverbial "Bleeding Hearts", who in reality have no hearts at all!!!

[Tamikosmom]

Anytime the question of when life begins is raised, Jeremiah 1:5 always comes to my mind:

5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
       before you were born I set you apart;

That perspective sort of settles it for me.

Thanks cbb.

Together with the passage from the Psalms ... I cannot comprehend how Barack Obama reconciles his Christian beliefs with his position on partial-birth abortion.

Janet

++++++++
 
Psalm 139:14-16 (King James Version)

14. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

+++++++++++

Obama's Abortion Extremism
Wednesday, April 2, 2008

Obama has not made abortion rights the shouted refrain of his campaign, as other Democrats have done. He seems to realize that pro-choice enthusiasm is inconsistent with a reputation for post-partisanship.

But Obama's record on abortion is extreme. He opposed the ban on partial-birth abortion -- a practice a fellow Democrat, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, once called "too close to infanticide." Obama strongly criticized the Supreme Court decision upholding the partial-birth ban.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040102197.html

[Tamikosmom]

Ok, now you've peaked my interest in this book Janet.  I too am fascinated by the 'End of Times' revelations. I have read the entire Left Behind Series by pastors Tim F. LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins.  Though they are obviously fiction, as it hasen't happened yet, but can give people a view of possibilities as they use many biblical references in it.  So I am going right now and ordering Dead Heat on Amazon.  I agree there is debate on tribulation timing and when it will occur, but the Left Behind series is an excellent read, even for those who may not believe in it.  It is action packed to keep readers attentions and I couldn't put them down! But again they reference the bible.  And in my mind, if it has a heartfelt impact just one non-christian to turn to the Lord, then it's worth it.

I am also a member at a forum, formally called Tribulation Forces, renamed The Bearean Watch, where daily commentary is posted of current events and there references to the Bible.  They also minister about salvation and the word of God.  They  are conservative and have many Bible references and teachings, that I find a great resource outside of the Bible, which is of course the ultimate resource.   But it's nice to just talk and fellowship from others across the world, aside from attending church.

I recommend the books and this website for those interested, especially LV.   I have some other forums that have members from all faiths, including Jews, which is interesting.   It can be more of a debate on different religion, rather than a resource.  But it is interesting and enlightening.

http://www.bereanwatchmen.com


I do appreciate all your thoughts and imput here.   It DOES impact politics, regardless of separation of church and state!   I too vote for those who are closest to my values and beliefs.  I believe that is why our country is going down hill, because of abandoning what our forefathers built this nation on.  It's all about me, me, me now.  I believe our forefathers are turning in there graves.   Barack is a  partial birth abortion advocate, what does that say if he is elected, among many other things.  They kill babies, who could survive if given birth early!  They suck out there brains and dispose of there bodies!  What in Gods name has come of this country, without him in it.   That's why America was so blessed in previous years.  Those blessings are becoming farther and farther between.  America needs to wake up!

I have not yet read my book DEAD HEAT but ... I do believe it reflects the LEFT BEHIND series.  DEAD HEAT is a fiction story portraying the Biblical interpretation by Joel Rosenberg of the events encompassing the end times.

Di ... great post.

I say what I want conveyed but ... I find it difficult show emotions in my posts but ... believe me ... I am emotional.  Sometimes ... I walk away from my computer in tears in regards to diversions on the forum concerning topics that are close to my heart.

Janet

[Kermit]

Kermit Wrote:
I actually understand what you explained. It makes sense. I thought it meant that when the anti-christ was here and he was holding it back. It makes more sense the way you explained it.

What never made sense to me was, if we are raptured, then why should we worry about the horrible things said to happen in Revelations since we won't be here.

*********************************************************

I don't think we are to worry about it, and it's part of the reason that I find it "interesting discussion" but that's it. On the other hand, a study of creation, or the Exodus, the flood, etc. has been important for me in my growth of understanding the nature of God as it applies to my personal walk of Faith. There is value in knowledge of prophecy for that reason, but there are lots of folks who focus in on "Tribulation" for their own purposes. My Sunday School teacher was right on that score: having no knowledge at all about that period of time has no impact on our decisions today concerning our own Salvation. As a matter of fact, Revelation is the only book in the Bible that specifically states it is written "for believers".

Revelation 1:1:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;

That would indicate, to me, that Revelation is not a starting point for anyone who is beginning to search for meaning or who has not already come to belief in Jesus. Revelation depicts a time of accelerated "Supernatural" activity, both good and evil, as God's plan to restore His original intent for man to the state it was in Eden, culminates. It's a time forcing choice. Before sin, God and man had such a close, loving relationship that they walked together and easily shared each others company. After sin, (and the tree was there so man could choose. There is no love without choice) death became a reality and immediately you see sin at work in the shame of nakedness, fear, and blaming of Eve by Adam.  God put His plan in place right then. God covered their nakedness with animal skin (the first death) and blood for atonement of, or covering of, sin came into the world. God would offer His own Son to be born and as a man, He lived a sinless life (unblemished) and as Sin came into the world through the man of Adam, so would the blood of Christ take it away for anyone who chooses to accept God's grace offered through Him.  He maintained choice in that plan, but provided a way. Tribulation is a step toward completion of that reconciliation of man to God and the circumstances of that time will compel those who are here to choose or reject Him. Actually, according to scripture, the 7 years referred to as "tribulation" is not the end of the world. There will be those who, in their own natural lifetime, will live through the 7 years and see the 2nd coming. They will live their life out, marry, and have children after Christ has returned and they too, will be tempted by evil (choice is central to the nature of a loving and just God). "Armageddon" will occur as the pre-finale to this world a thousand years after tribulation, and it will be replaced by a new world.

Genesis 3:8

 8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?" 10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"
12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."



Genesis 3:21
 21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.

Mat 18:11 
For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.


The Bible is a book with the answers in the back! 

I believe in God's plan, as taught from Genesis through Revelation, but again, the timing of rapture is conjecture. If I find myself in those times, I'll be right here discussing it with all of you! 

Okay I understand where you are going. Agreed, understanding scriptures and the last days we are in will bring some people some peace. It is that old saying, "knowledge is power". Understanding scriptures will also give one the knowledge of what is taking place and therefore the issues that are being brought up out of fear is really unnecessary because G_d is in charge. It IS going to happen and no amount of pity parties or thrashing each other is going to change what the plan of G_d is. Faith comes in all sorts of ways and sometimes people are given Faith. Everyday you drive the freeway you have faith that a car is going to pass you and not hit you. So, in some regards faith is nebulous. There is so much, much more in spiritual growth and sometimes it is reached through a person's own personal relationship with G_d.

The Rapture and Anti-Christ is nothing to fear, unless you are left behind.

[Kermit]

Anytime the question of when life begins is raised, Jeremiah 1:5 always comes to my mind:

 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
       before you were born I set you apart;

That perspective sort of settles it for me.

And that is the issue. Man vs G_d.

[crazybabyborg]

Wow, Kermit! I'm not sure I've ever read such an on target summary! All I can say is................Yeah, what Kermit said! 

[Tamikosmom]

<snipped>

There is so much, much more in spiritual growth and sometimes it is reached through a person's own personal relationship with G_d.

The Rapture and Anti-Christ is nothing to fear, unless you are left behind.

Kermit ... I believe that that Scripture reveals that after a 7 1/2 year honeymoon period with the anti-Christ ... Christ's Church will be raptured.  This honeymoom period will be a time when it will appear that that the anti-Christ is bringing about worldwide peace ... especially peace in the middle east.  However ... the anti-Christ is working behind the scenes with Israel's enemies ... preparing to destory God's chosen people.  It will be at that point when when all "H---" is about to break loose (Armageddon) ... that Christ will come for His own.

There is another viewpoint ... a viewpoint that implies that that the Church will go through the Tribulation and ... will be taken 7 1/2 years later ... at the end of the Tribulation.  During this period life will be a "H--- on Earth" for the Christian.  The Scripture instruct Christians not to accept the mark of the Beast (666) ...  but buying and selling will not be possible without it.  The present cashless society is setting the stage.  This viewpoint implies that the purpose of Christians going through the tribution will be to further the kingdom of God by sharing the Gospel.  Then at the end of this 7 1/2 year period ... Christ will take return for His church and ... allow the principalities of darkness (Christ is the light of the world) to destroy themselves.

As I said ... I adhere to the viewpoint that Christ will rapture His church prior to the 15 years Tribulation period but ... the other viewpoint is also support very effectively by others.  Therefore ... it is important that Christians are prepared with the full armour of God ... a strong realationship with God ... to withstand the hardships of this period.

When I read Karl Marx's writings/ideology ... I speculate that the anti-Christ will be a Marxist dictator.  In other words ... the state/government is the God of the people.

Janet

++++++++

[Tamikosmom]

<snipped>

When I read Karl Marx's writings/ideology ... I speculate that the anti-Christ will be a Marxist dictator.  In other words ... the state/government is the God of the people.

Janet

Matthew 24
For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones.

[Tamikosmom]

Kermit ... I believe that that Scripture reveals that after a 7 1/2 year honeymoon period with the anti-Christ ... Christ's Church will be raptured.  This honeymoom period will be a time when it will appear that that the anti-Christ is bringing about worldwide peace ... especially peace in the middle east.  However ... the anti-Christ is working behind the scenes with Israel's enemies ... preparing to destory God's chosen people.  It will be at that point when when all "H---" is about to break loose (Armageddon) ... that Christ will come for His own.

There is another viewpoint ... a viewpoint that implies that that the Church will go through the Tribulation and ... will be taken 7 1/2 years later ... at the end of the Tribulation.  During this period life will be a "H--- on Earth" for the Christian.  The Scripture instruct Christians not to accept the mark of the Beast (666) ...  but buying and selling will not be possible without it.  The present cashless society is setting the stage.  This viewpoint implies that the purpose of Christians going through the tribution will be to further the kingdom of God by sharing the Gospel.  Then at the end of this 7 1/2 year period ... Christ will take return for His church and ... allow the principalities of darkness (Christ is the light of the world) to destroy themselves.

As I said ... I adhere to the viewpoint that Christ will rapture His church prior to the 7 1/2 year Tribulation period but ... the other viewpoint is also support very effectively by others.  Therefore ... it is important that Christians are prepared with the full armour of God ... a strong relationship with God ... to withstand the hardships of this period.

Janet

++++++++

Ephesians 6:13
Therefore, put on every piece of God’s armor so you will be able to resist the enemy in the time of evil. Then after the battle you will still be standing firm.

[Tamikosmom]

And that is the issue. Man vs G_d.

Kermit ... I disagree.

Obama and I both belong to the family of man (humans).  However ... we differ on this issue.

I am one with God.  In other words ... "If God says it; I believe it and ... that settles it".  I will conform and ... underlining implications/ feelings are not an issue.  If God says it ... faith demand that I believe He has it in His control.

Romans 8
28.  And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

However ... when it comes to the issue of sanctity of the life in regards to the unborn child ... it is Obama who refuses to bow.

Janet

+++++++++


Jeremiah 1

5.  Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart ...

++++++++++++

Psalm 139

14. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

+++++++++++

Obama's Abortion Extremism
Wednesday, April 2, 2008

Obama has not made abortion rights the shouted refrain of his campaign, as other Democrats have done. He seems to realize that pro-choice enthusiasm is inconsistent with a reputation for post-partisanship.

But Obama's record on abortion is extreme. He opposed the ban on partial-birth abortion -- a practice a fellow Democrat, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, once called "too close to infanticide." Obama strongly criticized the Supreme Court decision upholding the partial-birth ban.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040102197.html

[Tamikosmom]

Kermit

About 24 1/2 years ago ... I found out my youngest was on the way.  Was I overjoyed?  No way!  My two other children were well into their teens (14/17) and ... hubby and I were anticipating the freedom from the responsibility of raising kids in about four years.

There was an alternative available ... a choice as to whether or not follow through with this unplanned pregnancy.  However ... I chose not to follow my feelings and ... planted my feet on the firm foundation of God's word.  Hey ... this does not imply that I was happy with the prospect of starting all over again ... I was not.  This child would be entering Kindergarten the September following the high school graduation of my then 14 year old son.  He would raised as an only child.

However ... a miracle happened.  In an ultersound at 16 weeks gestation ... I saw my baby ... little arms waving and legs kicking to the beat of an unheard band.  I saw his huge head.  LOL  I was assured it was normal.

Kermit ... this son is now twenty-five years old ... a public school teacher ... married to the love of his life.  His father and I enjoyed every stage of his life.  We had learned from raising of the other two ... what issues were important and what issues were not.  In other words ... we picked our battles with this guy through our learned experiences.

I had anticipated that this after-thought ... hey, he was not even a thought ... would upset "my" plan for "my" life but ... God had "another" plan for my life and ... His plan was perfect.

Just thought I would share.

Janet

[Kermit]

Wow, Kermit! I'm not sure I've ever read such an on target summary! All I can say is................Yeah, what Kermit said! 

ribbit

[crazybabyborg]

Oh, boy! I feel a lively discussion on the horizon! 

Tamik? I'm just curious. Whatcha' basing a 15 year tribulation on? That's not a calculation I've ever run into. I've always interpreted Daniel as depicting a 7 year tribulation with 3 1/2 years as the midpoint.

Disclaimer: I'm just picking Tamik's brain, not arguing! 

[Tamikosmom]

Oh, boy! I feel a lively discussion on the horizon! 

Tamik? I'm just curious. Whatcha' basing a 15 year tribulation on? That's not a calculation I've ever run into. I've always interpreted Daniel as depicting a 7 year tribulation with 3 1/2 years as the midpoint.

Disclaimer: I'm just picking Tamik's brain, not arguing! 

cbb ... I believe that you are right.  I will retrieve some of my end time books and ... have a boo.

Anyways ... I believe that in the beginning ... the anti-Christ's rule will be a honeymoon period where it will appear that he will have the ability to negotiate peace with Israel's enemies but ... behind the scenes the stage is being set up ... for the war of all wars against Israel.

I believe that Christ will return at this point for his Church.  The King of all Kings will not allow the Jews who recognize him as their  Messiah ... His chosen people ... to be annihilated.

I believe that the Rapture will mark the beginning of the tribulation ... the anti-Christ will be reveal for who he really is and ... world-wide Marxist/Islamic dictatorship will be established.

My eldest son and DIL disagree.  I am sure they have a Bible study on this topic at least once a week. LOL  They both adhere to the viewpoint that the Church will go through the Tribulation as a testimony to provide non-believers an opportunity to bow.  They are of the opinion that many believers who are of the persuation that the Church will not go through the Tribulation are going to submit to the anti-Christ as ... they will be unprepared for the hardship that everyday living will entail as illegal citizens ... no way of support their families ... no way of receiving government assistant ... medical attention ...

I told son and DIL not to worry ... if God did not take me first ... I would be with them whenever the Rapture occurred.  LOL

Janet

[Kermit]

<snipped>

There is so much, much more in spiritual growth and sometimes it is reached through a person's own personal relationship with G_d.

The Rapture and Anti-Christ is nothing to fear, unless you are left behind.

Kermit ... I believe that that Scripture reveals that after a 7 1/2 year honeymoon period with the anti-Christ ... Christ's Church will be raptured.  This honeymoom period will be a time when it will appear that that the anti-Christ is bringing about worldwide peace ... especially peace in the middle east.  However ... the anti-Christ is working behind the scenes with Israel's enemies ... preparing to destory God's chosen people.  It will be at that point when when all "H---" is about to break loose (Armageddon) ... that Christ will come for His own.

There is another viewpoint ... a viewpoint that implies that that the Church will go through the Tribulation and ... will be taken 7 1/2 years later ... at the end of the Tribulation.  During this period life will be a "H--- on Earth" for the Christian.  The Scripture instruct Christians not to accept the mark of the Beast (666) ...  but buying and selling will not be possible without it.  The present cashless society is setting the stage.  This viewpoint implies that the purpose of Christians going through the tribution will be to further the kingdom of God by sharing the Gospel.  Then at the end of this 7 1/2 year period ... Christ will take return for His church and ... allow the principalities of darkness (Christ is the light of the world) to destroy themselves.

As I said ... I adhere to the viewpoint that Christ will rapture His church prior to the 15 years Tribulation period but ... the other viewpoint is also support very effectively by others.  Therefore ... it is important that Christians are prepared with the full armour of God ... a strong realationship with God ... to withstand the hardships of this period.

When I read Karl Marx's writings/ideology ... I speculate that the anti-Christ will be a Marxist dictator.  In other words ... the state/government is the God of the people.

Janet

++++++++

Yes I understand the debate and your viewpoint and the arguments for both sides are understandable. Years ago I remember reading this book about the whole tribulation & end times which is revealed in Revelations and Daniel scriptures, can't recall the title of the book, but it was by Hal Lindsay. Tribulation is scary stuff, BUT at the end of the book he says "we won't be here so don't worry."

My personal belief and relationship with G_d gives me a dependency upon Him and not man. So am I worried about when & where? Nope. That is why it is important to build upon as Abraham, Issac and Jacob did - have a relationship with the father. He will lead you in all things. He will reveal all things. So therefore having a foundation in Him is more important then say trying to get faith. The scriptures about having or rather putting on the armor of G_d is used when one knows they need to use it, before battle and never go into battle unless G_d tells you too - remember the story of David. He was suppose to go into battle and he didn't.  If one choses to take on the enemy and G_d has not directed a person to do so, then the protection is not there. That is why the gift of discernment is important. And one does that by having a relationship with the father. I never go up against the enemy unless I am directed to do so.
Hope that makes sense. Heck whattda I know, I'm only a froggy.

[Kermit]

Oh, boy! I feel a lively discussion on the horizon! 

Tamik? I'm just curious. Whatcha' basing a 15 year tribulation on? That's not a calculation I've ever run into. I've always interpreted Daniel as depicting a 7 year tribulation with 3 1/2 years as the midpoint.

Disclaimer: I'm just picking Tamik's brain, not arguing! 

I have only heard the same 7 year tribulation
and after 3 1/2 yrs of peace then the rapture (is one viewpoint)

[Kermit]

And that is the issue. Man vs G_d.

Kermit ... I disagree.

Obama and I both belong to the family of man (humans).  However ... we differ on this issue.

I am one with God.  In other words ... "If God says it; I believe it and ... that settles it".  I will conform and ... underlining implications/ feelings are not an issue.  If God says it ... faith demand that I believe He has it in His control.

Romans 8
28.  And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

However ... when it comes to the issue of sanctity of the life in regards to the unborn child ... it is Obama who refuses to bow.

Janet

+++++++++


Jeremiah 1

5.  Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart ...

++++++++++++

Psalm 139

14. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

+++++++++++

Obama's Abortion Extremism
Wednesday, April 2, 2008

Obama has not made abortion rights the shouted refrain of his campaign, as other Democrats have done. He seems to realize that pro-choice enthusiasm is inconsistent with a reputation for post-partisanship.

But Obama's record on abortion is extreme. He opposed the ban on partial-birth abortion -- a practice a fellow Democrat, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, once called "too close to infanticide." Obama strongly criticized the Supreme Court decision upholding the partial-birth ban.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040102197.html

And this is why I think truth is important because here we have 2 different responses to this issue from Obama.

The one you provided above, which is Moynihan giving the information and this one which is Obama speaking because it is very easy to spin & twist the truth. I'm not in any way suggesting you did that. I am suggesting we be cautious to make sure we understand exactly what the truth is. So we can make informed choices. Well, at least that is what I am going to do. I feel everyone has the freedom to do as they choose.

OBAMA:  "On an issue like partial-birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I've said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother, and many of the bills that came before me didn't have that."
http://romancatholicblog.typepad.com/roman_catholic_blog/2008/04/barack-obama-de.html



But what I think the real issue is, should a woman be allowed to make her own choice.

As you stated in your situation you made your choice. I think what the issue has been for many years is when it comes to abortion is that women want to have the right to make their own choice.

I'm saying Man vs G_d is the issue.
Should man/woman decide or should they listen to G_d's ways?