The Anti-Christ

[Tamikosmom]

<snipped>

There is so much, much more in spiritual growth and sometimes it is reached through a person's own personal relationship with G_d.

The Rapture and Anti-Christ is nothing to fear, unless you are left behind.

Kermit ... I believe that that Scripture reveals that after a 7 1/2 year honeymoon period with the anti-Christ ... Christ's Church will be raptured.  This honeymoom period will be a time when it will appear that that the anti-Christ is bringing about worldwide peace ... especially peace in the middle east.  However ... the anti-Christ is working behind the scenes with Israel's enemies ... preparing to destory God's chosen people.  It will be at that point when when all "H---" is about to break loose (Armageddon) ... that Christ will come for His own.

There is another viewpoint ... a viewpoint that implies that that the Church will go through the Tribulation and ... will be taken 7 1/2 years later ... at the end of the Tribulation.  During this period life will be a "H--- on Earth" for the Christian.  The Scripture instruct Christians not to accept the mark of the Beast (666) ...  but buying and selling will not be possible without it.  The present cashless society is setting the stage.  This viewpoint implies that the purpose of Christians going through the tribution will be to further the kingdom of God by sharing the Gospel.  Then at the end of this 7 1/2 year period ... Christ will take return for His church and ... allow the principalities of darkness (Christ is the light of the world) to destroy themselves.

As I said ... I adhere to the viewpoint that Christ will rapture His church prior to the 15 years Tribulation period but ... the other viewpoint is also support very effectively by others.  Therefore ... it is important that Christians are prepared with the full armour of God ... a strong realationship with God ... to withstand the hardships of this period.

When I read Karl Marx's writings/ideology ... I speculate that the anti-Christ will be a Marxist dictator.  In other words ... the state/government is the God of the people.

Janet

++++++++

Yes I understand the debate and your viewpoint and the arguments for both sides are understandable. Years ago I remember reading this book about the whole tribulation & end times which is revealed in Revelations and Daniel scriptures, can't recall the title of the book, but it was by Hal Lindsay. Tribulation is scary stuff, BUT at the end of the book he says "we won't be here so don't worry."

My personal belief and relationship with G_d gives me a dependency upon Him and not man. So am I worried about when & where? Nope. That is why it is important to build upon as Abraham, Issac and Jacob did - have a relationship with the father. He will lead you in all things. He will reveal all things. So therefore having a foundation in Him is more important then say trying to get faith. The scriptures about having or rather putting on the armor of G_d is used when one knows they need to use it, before battle and never go into battle unless G_d tells you too - remember the story of David. He was suppose to go into battle and he didn't.  If one choses to take on the enemy and G_d has not directed a person to do so, then the protection is not there. That is why the gift of discernment is important. And one does that by having a relationship with the father. I never go up against the enemy unless I am directed to do so.
Hope that makes sense. Heck whattda I know, I'm only a froggy.

Perfect sense.

Thanks Kermit.

Janet

[Kermit]

Oh, boy! I feel a lively discussion on the horizon! 

Tamik? I'm just curious. Whatcha' basing a 15 year tribulation on? That's not a calculation I've ever run into. I've always interpreted Daniel as depicting a 7 year tribulation with 3 1/2 years as the midpoint.

Disclaimer: I'm just picking Tamik's brain, not arguing! 

cbb ... I believe that you are right.  I will retrieve some of my end time books and ... have a boo.

Anyways ... I believe that in the beginning ... the anti-Christ's rule will be a honeymoon period where it will appear that he will have the ability to negotiate peace with Israel's enemies but ... behind the scenes the stage is being set up ... for the war of all wars against Israel.

I believe that Christ will return at this point for his Church.  The King of all Kings will not allow the Jews who recognize him as their  Messiah ... His chosen people ... to be annihilated.

I believe that the Rapture will mark the beginning of the tribulation ... the anti-Christ will be reveal for who he really is and ... world-wide Marxist/Islamic dictatorship will be established.

My eldest son and DIL disagree.  I am sure they have a Bible study on this topic at least once a week. LOL  They both adhere to the viewpoint that the Church will go through the Tribulation as a testimony to provide non-believers an opportunity to bow.  They are of the opinion that many believers who are of the persuation that the Church will not go through the Tribulation are going to submit to the anti-Christ as ... they will be unprepared for the hardship that everyday living will entail as illegal citizens ... no way of support their families ... no way of receiving government assistant ... medical attention ...

I told son and DIL not to worry ... if God did not take me first ... I would be with them whenever the Rapture occurred.  LOL

Janet

"Anyways ... I believe that in the beginning ... the anti-Christ's rule will be a honeymoon period where it will appear that he will have the ability to negotiate peace with Israel's enemies but ... behind the scenes the stage is being set up ... for the war of all wars against Israel."

Yeah, I think this is true and that is why I feel/think whatever word one wants to place upon it that America becomes isolated for some reason - either we can't help Israel, or we have some catastrophic reason to not help - something stops us from protecting Israel, so that China and Russia come against Israel and G_d protects Israel.

Did you know China and Russia have made a deal for oil pipelines.

[Tamikosmom]

Oh, boy! I feel a lively discussion on the horizon! 

Tamik? I'm just curious. Whatcha' basing a 15 year tribulation on? That's not a calculation I've ever run into. I've always interpreted Daniel as depicting a 7 year tribulation with 3 1/2 years as the midpoint.

Disclaimer: I'm just picking Tamik's brain, not arguing! 

cbb ... I believe that you are right.  I will retrieve some of my end time books and ... have a boo.

Anyways ... I believe that in the beginning ... the anti-Christ's rule will be a honeymoon period where it will appear that he will have the ability to negotiate peace with Israel's enemies but ... behind the scenes the stage is being set up ... for the war of all wars against Israel.

I believe that Christ will return at this point for his Church.  The King of all Kings will not allow the Jews who recognize him as their  Messiah ... His chosen people ... to be annihilated.

I believe that the Rapture will mark the beginning of the tribulation ... the anti-Christ will be reveal for who he really is and ... world-wide Marxist/Islamic dictatorship will be established.

My eldest son and DIL disagree.  I am sure they have a Bible study on this topic at least once a week. LOL  They both adhere to the viewpoint that the Church will go through the Tribulation as a testimony to provide non-believers an opportunity to bow.  They are of the opinion that many believers who are of the persuation that the Church will not go through the Tribulation are going to submit to the anti-Christ as ... they will be unprepared for the hardship that everyday living will entail as illegal citizens ... no way of support their families ... no way of receiving government assistant ... medical attention ...

I told son and DIL not to worry ... if God did not take me first ... I would be with them whenever the Rapture occurred.  LOL

Janet

"Anyways ... I believe that in the beginning ... the anti-Christ's rule will be a honeymoon period where it will appear that he will have the ability to negotiate peace with Israel's enemies but ... behind the scenes the stage is being set up ... for the war of all wars against Israel."

Yeah, I think this is true and that is why I feel/think whatever word one wants to place upon it that America becomes isolated for some reason - either we can't help Israel, or we have some catastrophic reason to not help - something stops us from protecting Israel, so that China and Russia come against Israel and G_d protects Israel.

Did you know China and Russia have made a deal for oil pipelines.

Kermit

You have to read DEAD HEAT by Joel Rosenberg.  My eldest son and DIL each purchased one and ... thought the author was right on in regards to end time political events.  Di has order a copy.  Maybe cbb would pick up one and ... then we could set up a special thread just to dialogue Rosenberg's perspective.  I have not begun reading this book ... it does not look like light reading.  I was going to wait for summer when hubby and I were on the boat but ... I just may discipline myself to one chapter a night.

What do you think?

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

"Anyways ... I believe that in the beginning ... the anti-Christ's rule will be a honeymoon period where it will appear that he will have the ability to negotiate peace with Israel's enemies but ... behind the scenes the stage is being set up ... for the war of all wars against Israel."

Yeah, I think this is true and that is why I feel/think whatever word one wants to place upon it that America becomes isolated for some reason - either we can't help Israel, or we have some catastrophic reason to not help - something stops us from protecting Israel, so that China and Russia come against Israel and G_d protects Israel.

Did you know China and Russia have made a deal for oil pipelines.

Kermit ... not something but ... someone.  The American people were deceived into electing a President who hates Israel and embraces a Marxist/Islamic ideology that adheres to that of the nations which believe that Israel should be wiped off the face of the map.

Janet

[caesu]

ok, let me do this "talking to enemies / appeasement game" for a second.

FYI, this Maliki the prime-minister of the USA-backed iraqi puppet-regime.

here Malike meets Ahmadinejad

sometimes it is better to wait a second and talk first than to bomb eachtothers brains out.

if bush would have waited for the UN inspectors the finish their jobs searching for WMD in iraq.
he would have known there were no such weapons there.
and the war wasn't necessary.

would have saved the lives of 4400 coalition soldiers. and 435 private contractors.
and 1.000.000 dead iraqi's. yes over a million (mostly innocent iraqi's) are slaughtered now.


isn't war the last resort? wasn't he pro-life president?

try all options including diplomacy and only very far after that war might be the last resort.
so... let Obama talk to him. maybe a war can be prevented. maybe not.
but not trying won't prevent anything for sure.

FYI. Israël, a country with 1000 times more experience with terrorism than the USA is talking (indirectly) to Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria.
why? because talks can work - they made peace with Jordan and Egypt for example after bloody wars.

and all this talk about marxism and what else.
see here republican president Nixon and Kissinger shake hands with Mao.


Mao's Great Purge led to 20 up to 72 million deaths. what makes him possibly the biggest mass murder ever.
but Kissinger/Nixon decided to talk and start economic ties, still exist until today.

and F D Roosevelt met with Stalin of course, another mass murderer - murdered more than Hitler, not as much as Mao.


so it is ridicuous that Obama gets attacked for wanting to have chat with Ahmadinejad.
but it is easy to do it. but if thought through it isn't as stupid an idea at all.

[Tamikosmom]

so it is ridicuous that Obama gets attacked for wanting to have chat with Ahmadinejad.
but it is easy to do it. but if thought through it isn't as stupid an idea at all.

caesu ... do you really think that a "chat" is going to change the resolve of Ahmadinejad?

However ... it could be that Obama's "chat" is not about changing Ahmadinejad determination to wipe Israel off the map or ... destroy the greatest democracy on the face of the earth.

Janet

+++++++++

Ahmadinejad Calls U.S. 'Satanic,' Israel 'About to Die'
Monday, June 02, 2008

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad predicted that Muslims would uproot “satanic powers” and reaffirmed his prediction that the Jewish state will soon be wiped off the map, the Agence France-Presse news agency reported Monday.

"I must announce that the Zionist regime (Israel), with a 60-year record of genocide, plunder, invasion and betrayal is about to die and will soon be erased from the geographical scene," Ahmadinejad said.

"Today, the time for the fall of the satanic power of the United States has come and the countdown to the annihilation of the emperor of power and wealth has started," the hard-line president said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,361705,00.html

[caesu]

i am only saying: try diplomacy first.
and war as a last resort.

that's an american tradition by the way.
the american president (democratic and republican) used to have a hotline with the soviet president.
to prevent war.

leaders can say all kinds of crazy stuff to play to their own crowds.
remember mccain singing: "bomb, bomb, iran".
or hillary talking about "obliterating iran".

i think diplomacy should be given a chance in the first place.

israel is doing that too. talking to syria, hezbollah, hamas (not always direct talks)

here sadat, egyptian president, gives a speech in the israeli knesset (1977).

only 4 years previous was the yom kippoer war (1973)
egypt and syria tried to overrun israel. fot the first days they were succesfull.

mccain knows all of this too.
so it is a bit low of him to attack obama for wanting diplomacy first.

[Kermit]

"Anyways ... I believe that in the beginning ... the anti-Christ's rule will be a honeymoon period where it will appear that he will have the ability to negotiate peace with Israel's enemies but ... behind the scenes the stage is being set up ... for the war of all wars against Israel."

Yeah, I think this is true and that is why I feel/think whatever word one wants to place upon it that America becomes isolated for some reason - either we can't help Israel, or we have some catastrophic reason to not help - something stops us from protecting Israel, so that China and Russia come against Israel and G_d protects Israel.

Did you know China and Russia have made a deal for oil pipelines.

Kermit ... not something but ... someone.  The American people were deceived into electing a President who hates Israel and embraces a Marxist/Islamic ideology that adheres to that of the nations which believe that Israel should be wiped off the face of the map.

Janet

Whoa nellie. No one has wiped Israel off the face of the earth and scripture clearly states that G_d will allow this war against Israel to happen and then he is going to show them He is G_d.

[Kermit]

The US Government has announced that it will release $95m to North Korea as part of an agreement to replace the Stalinist country's own nuclear programme, which the US suspected was being misused.
 3 April, 2002,
President Bush's accusation that Pyongyang was part of an "axis of evil" producing weapons of mass destruction.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1908571.stm

At some point America's leaders need to return to diplomacy and not tyrannical name-calling.


"We must use the leverage available from the U.N. Security Council resolution passed after Pyongyang's 2006 nuclear test to ensure the full and complete declaration, disablement and irreversible dismantlement of its nuclear facilities, in a verifiable manner, which we agreed to with the other members of the six-party talks." McCain and Lieberman write.

[Kermit]

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/26/mccain_breaks_with_bush_over_n.html

oops forgot the link to that last article.

[Kermit]

<snipped>

There is so much, much more in spiritual growth and sometimes it is reached through a person's own personal relationship with G_d.

The Rapture and Anti-Christ is nothing to fear, unless you are left behind.

Kermit ... I believe that that Scripture reveals that after a 7 1/2 year honeymoon period with the anti-Christ ... Christ's Church will be raptured.  This honeymoom period will be a time when it will appear that that the anti-Christ is bringing about worldwide peace ... especially peace in the middle east.  However ... the anti-Christ is working behind the scenes with Israel's enemies ... preparing to destory God's chosen people.  It will be at that point when when all "H---" is about to break loose (Armageddon) ... that Christ will come for His own.

There is another viewpoint ... a viewpoint that implies that that the Church will go through the Tribulation and ... will be taken 7 1/2 years later ... at the end of the Tribulation.  During this period life will be a "H--- on Earth" for the Christian.  The Scripture instruct Christians not to accept the mark of the Beast (666) ...  but buying and selling will not be possible without it.  The present cashless society is setting the stage.  This viewpoint implies that the purpose of Christians going through the tribution will be to further the kingdom of God by sharing the Gospel.  Then at the end of this 7 1/2 year period ... Christ will take return for His church and ... allow the principalities of darkness (Christ is the light of the world) to destroy themselves.

As I said ... I adhere to the viewpoint that Christ will rapture His church prior to the 15 years Tribulation period but ... the other viewpoint is also support very effectively by others.  Therefore ... it is important that Christians are prepared with the full armour of God ... a strong realationship with God ... to withstand the hardships of this period.

When I read Karl Marx's writings/ideology ... I speculate that the anti-Christ will be a Marxist dictator.  In other words ... the state/government is the God of the people.

Janet

++++++++

Yes I understand the debate and your viewpoint and the arguments for both sides are understandable. Years ago I remember reading this book about the whole tribulation & end times which is revealed in Revelations and Daniel scriptures, can't recall the title of the book, but it was by Hal Lindsay. Tribulation is scary stuff, BUT at the end of the book he says "we won't be here so don't worry."

My personal belief and relationship with G_d gives me a dependency upon Him and not man. So am I worried about when & where? Nope. That is why it is important to build upon as Abraham, Issac and Jacob did - have a relationship with the father. He will lead you in all things. He will reveal all things. So therefore having a foundation in Him is more important then say trying to get faith. The scriptures about having or rather putting on the armor of G_d is used when one knows they need to use it, before battle and never go into battle unless G_d tells you too - remember the story of David. He was suppose to go into battle and he didn't.  If one choses to take on the enemy and G_d has not directed a person to do so, then the protection is not there. That is why the gift of discernment is important. And one does that by having a relationship with the father. I never go up against the enemy unless I am directed to do so.
Hope that makes sense. Heck whattda I know, I'm only a froggy.

Perfect sense.

Thanks Kermit.

Janet

ribbit

[mrs. red]

I am about to start Dead Heat so if there is a discussion about be sure and email me....

I have been following this thread with great interest!! 

[Tamikosmom]

"Anyways ... I believe that in the beginning ... the anti-Christ's rule will be a honeymoon period where it will appear that he will have the ability to negotiate peace with Israel's enemies but ... behind the scenes the stage is being set up ... for the war of all wars against Israel."

Yeah, I think this is true and that is why I feel/think whatever word one wants to place upon it that America becomes isolated for some reason - either we can't help Israel, or we have some catastrophic reason to not help - something stops us from protecting Israel, so that China and Russia come against Israel and G_d protects Israel.

Did you know China and Russia have made a deal for oil pipelines.

Kermit ... not something but ... someone.  The American people were deceived into electing a President who hates Israel and embraces a Marxist/Islamic ideology that adheres to that of the nations which believe that Israel should be wiped off the face of the map.

Janet

Whoa nellie. No one has wiped Israel off the face of the earth and scripture clearly states that G_d will allow this war against Israel to happen and then he is going to show them He is G_d.

 

Kermit ... please read what I said above.

I am just saying that the United States will no longer be an ally of Israel if she is under a Marxist dictatorship.  That is the reason I believe that Scripture is silent regarding America.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

I am about to start Dead Heat so if there is a discussion about be sure and email me....

I have been following this thread with great interest!! 

 

[WhiskeyGirl]

"Anyways ... I believe that in the beginning ... the anti-Christ's rule will be a honeymoon period where it will appear that he will have the ability to negotiate peace with Israel's enemies but ... behind the scenes the stage is being set up ... for the war of all wars against Israel."

Yeah, I think this is true and that is why I feel/think whatever word one wants to place upon it that America becomes isolated for some reason - either we can't help Israel, or we have some catastrophic reason to not help - something stops us from protecting Israel, so that China and Russia come against Israel and G_d protects Israel.

Did you know China and Russia have made a deal for oil pipelines.

Kermit ... not something but ... someone.  The American people were deceived into electing a President who hates Israel and embraces a Marxist/Islamic ideology that adheres to that of the nations which believe that Israel should be wiped off the face of the map.

Janet

Whoa nellie. No one has wiped Israel off the face of the earth and scripture clearly states that G_d will allow this war against Israel to happen and then he is going to show them He is G_d.

 

Kermit ... please read what I said above.

I am just saying that the United States will no longer be an ally of Israel if she is under a Marxist dictatorship.  That is the reason I believe that Scripture is silent regarding America.

Janet

Scripture is not silent regarding America...the message is contained within "The Book of Mormon" - available in many languages, over the internet, through the mail, and from friendly missionaries that travel in pairs on bicycles.

[Tamikosmom]

Transcript: Obama Democratic Nomination Victory Speech
by FOXNews.com
Tuesday, June 3, 2008
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/03/transcript-obama-democratic-nomination-victory-speech/


Transcript: Hillary Clinton Primary Night Speech
by FOXNews.com
Tuesday, June 3, 2008
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/03/transcript-hillary-clinton-primary-night-speech/


McCain Offers Obama Strong Medicine While Welcoming Him to General Election
by Associated Press
Tuesday, June 3, 2008
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/03/mccain-offers-obama-strong-medicine-while-welcoming-him-to-general-election/

[Tamikosmom]

VIDEOS

Obama
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/06/03/sot.obama.clinton.cnn

Clinton
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/06/03/sot.clinton.no.decisions.cnn

McCain
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/06/03/sot.mccain.obama.record.cnn

[Tamikosmom]

Obama Clinches Democratic Presidential Nomination
by FOXNews.comTuesday, June 3, 2008

Barack Obama clinched the Democratic presidential nomination Tuesday, becoming the first African-American to run for the nation’s highest office as the standard bearer of a major political party.

<snipped>

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/03/ap-obama-clinches-democratic-nomination-with-superdelegates/

[Auntiem]

and F D Roosevelt met with Stalin of course, another mass murderer - murdered more than Hitler, not as much as Mao.
[img]http://schools.sd68.bc.ca/dove/teachers/rmckean/webquest/Ramona/a_c_roosevelt-stalin-yalta.jpg[/im

        When was this pic taken of
Stalin, 'truly a mass murderer" with the traitor FDR??  At or after Yalta?????  "Where he sold us down the river"?

[Auntiem]

      Proving that the Democratic Party is anything but.  They have always leaned and "cow towed" to our enemies, cause that have no morals, guts or brains....FDR,  was as "pink" as you could get......I guess Coulter is not entirely correct when you read the title of her book, they've got other bigger, far reaching, far more deeply embedded problems than just not belonging to the Republican party.