The Anti-Christ

[LouiseVargas]

The Anti-Christ is a person mentioned in the Bible who will rise at the end of time to run our world for 7 yrs. before the 2nd coming of Christ.   Nobody on this earth decides or knows who, only God knows the answer to that.  But Christians for decades have speculated  on who it is, by his description in the Bible.    The anti-christ is a person who rises as a very charismatic, well loved person who appears to be able solve all the problems of the world.  Obama is only one of thousands who have been speculated.   ONLY God knows!

My comment above is just a comment from a person once again speculating, by using his "charisma" and promises.

Love,

Di

Dear Di,

I would like to start a thread about the Anti-Christ. I've heard about it but I thought the Anti-Christ was the devil. Is it similar to a false prophet?

I want to thank the Monkeys for educating me about Christianity and that Christians value Israel.

So I'm fascinated to learn more. Wow. A person will rise at the end of time to run our world for seven years preceding the second coming, and the person will be charismatic and well loved.

I don't know about you, but I feel the end times are near. Are we speculating that Obama is the Anti-Christ?

Love, Mama

[Dihannah1]

The Anti-Christ is a person mentioned in the Bible who will rise at the end of time to run our world for 7 yrs. before the 2nd coming of Christ.   Nobody on this earth decides or knows who, only God knows the answer to that.  But Christians for decades have speculated  on who it is, by his description in the Bible.    The anti-christ is a person who rises as a very charismatic, well loved person who appears to be able solve all the problems of the world.  Obama is only one of thousands who have been speculated.   ONLY God knows!

My comment above is just a comment from a person once again speculating, by using his "charisma" and promises.

Love,

Di

Dear Di,

I would like to start a thread about the Anti-Christ. I've heard about it but I thought the Anti-Christ was the devil. Is it similar to a false prophet?

I want to thank the Monkeys for educating me about Christianity and that Christians value Israel.

So I'm fascinated to learn more. Wow. A person will rise at the end of time to run our world for seven years preceding the second coming, and the person will be charismatic and well loved.

I don't know about you, but I feel the end times are near. Are we speculating that Obama is the Anti-Christ?

Love, Mama

Hi Mama LV!

Sorry for long delay in responding.  I have been busy and only lurking.  As I said, I brought a comment over of somebody 'speculating', as people have done for decades.  I would love to discuss this further, but since the discussion of politics can be heated enough,  I won't add religion into the mix here on the forum anymore.  We will discuss via email, if you truly want more info. on some common, yet some differences, in Christian beliefs of , the Rapture, Tribulations and the Anti-Christ etc. as it is a very controversial topic in itself.   We go mixing politics and religion here, it will only add to the confusion.   So I will be emailing you some info, that may interest you, if you are truly interested.

Love,

Di

[sb]

No, I don't believe that Obama is the Anti-Christ. There are Scriptural events that have to happen yet BEFORE the Anti-Christ comes to power. The Anti-Christ is not likely to be an American, either. Who else in the world would support an American? They have such envy and loathing for us, how could they ever follow one of us?

Some have speculated that he will be of a "Jewish" lineage at some degree, because the Jewish people would not accept anyone else as their possible "Messiah", but that idea is somewhat outdated. The level of religious syncretism in the world today is such that even the more orthodox could be fooled in accepting ANYONE, of any nationality, as a messiah. The Scriptures do NOT expressly state of what nationality or ethnicity he will be.

The notion of the Anti-Christ as being European or Middle Eastern, and being, perhaps, of Jewish lineage on one side of the family, seems valid with what little descriptions we have of what he will do.

The Anti-Christ, however, will come across as a man who "pulls together" all races, creeds, and nationalities, so it makes sense that he will be of a hybrid and complicated lineage ("multi-cultural"). That aspect of Obama's life does strike me as being the type of man that the Anti-Christ WILL be.

Don't get me wrong... I want to see peace and harmony AMONG NATIONS (note the plural use) as much as anyone. I fear the "Internationalist" movement to eliminate all national boundaries and create a One World state, above anything else. World government is the Ultimate Evil. It is the End of Freedom and Liberty as we in America know it.

THAT movement is the seedbed of the Anti-Christ's fan base. They are who he will appeal to as the ultimate Answer to all their dreams. That's why I want to support the candidate who holds our national sovereignty in the highest regard, who wants America to be strong and not kowtow to the UN or to third world tinpot countries like Aruba. Any candidate willing to put "international law" or the dictates of the UN above American law and our Constitution, moves us one step closer to the Anti-Christ's reign of terror.

[Dihannah1]

SB,  thanks for clarifying that.  I didn't mean to mislead LV,  I only brought over a comment and agree with everything you just stated.   

I do understand that LV, has learned recently how much Christians are pro-Israel all the way.   I just wanted to find the right words to explain what I was referring to, towards that comment.   You are right,  he/it is not going to come from America.  But hopefully you can help me educate LV more on Christian beliefs to her Jewish background.  I fear it will be a huge task in getting the true message across.  I had hoped Tamik, would step in, with all her enormous knowledge and links  of scripture at hand.

[Bearlyhere]

SB,  thanks for clarifying that.  I didn't mean to mislead LV,  I only brought over a comment and agree with everything you just stated.   

I do understand that LV, has learned recently how much Christians are pro-Israel all the way.   I just wanted to find the right words to explain what I was referring to, towards that comment.   You are right,  he/it is not going to come from America.  But hopefully you can help me educate LV more on Christian beliefs to her Jewish background.  I fear it will be a huge task in getting the true message across.  I had hoped Tamik, would step in, with all her enormous knowledge and links  of scripture at hand.

Dihannah, anyone can quote from a book.  You have a special gift of being a witness to that book.  The book contains guidelines, it is up to us to live them and you surely do.  You are perfect as an educator.

(Please don't misunderstand my message, I love the Bible, but if you only use it to stand on to make yourself appear bigger, it is not being used for the purpose intended).jmho

[LouiseVargas]

Hello Di, sb, and Bearly,

Thank you for all the information. Di, I'd love it if you could send info on the Rapture,  Tribulations and the Anti-Christ.

With love,
Louise

 

[Dihannah1]

Mama LV,

Please check your email.

{hugs}

[Kermit]

Ezekiel: 38-39 details the battle in the bible in the last days

Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first and that man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

(The Rapture happens first then the Anti Christ

then the chapter goes on to explain how He that restrains will be taken out of the way, then the lawless one will be revealed (lawless one being the Anti Christ)

[crazybabyborg]

Ezekiel: 38-39 details the battle in the bible in the last days

Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first and that man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

(The Rapture happens first then the Anti Christ

then the chapter goes on to explain how He that restrains will be taken out of the way, then the lawless one will be revealed (lawless one being the Anti Christ)

That's the verse I was thinking of while reading these posts, Kermit! I've always found it interesting that before John was given the Revelation of "those things to come" in Revelation, he was "called up" with the voice of a trumpet. Many people feel that is also an indication that the Church will be removed before the tribulation period, especially coupled with 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 :

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation 4:1-2
After this, I looked, and lo, in heaven an open door! And the voice which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, "Come hither, and I will show you what must take place after this." At once I was in the Spirit, and lo, a throne stood in heaven with one seated on the throne!

[Tamikosmom]

For Mother's Day ... Eldest son and wife gave me the book authored by Joel Rosenberg called "Dead Heat".  Unlike the relatively conservative church that hubby and I have attened for 20 years ... son and DIL's church is very charasmatic and ... the ministry is very much into the end times.

It is ironic ... this is the son who humbled his father and me in his late teens and early twenties and ... implied we were "religious fanatics".

Anyways ... the book deals with how political events throughout the world "MAY" all be coming together to facilitate the "Rapture" of the Church.  Apparently the book involves a fictional story that incorporates all these events.

I have yet to begin reading this thick book but ... summer is almost here and ... hours spent on our boat while hubby is fishing will allow me to read it with few interruptions ... no computer.  LOL

Regarding the Anti-Christ.  I have been there; done that so many times over the years in my speculating.  I refuse to go there again.  I decided that I am right with God so therefore ... I will not be around to experience the Tribulation.  Why worry about the anti-Christ.  Hey ... maybe God will call me first.

 

Janet

[WhiskeyGirl]

For Mother's Day ... Eldest son and wife gave me the book authored by Joel Rosenberg called "Dead Heat".  Unlike the relatively conservative church that hubby and I have attened for 20 years ... son and DIL's church is very charasmatic and ... the ministry is very much into the end times.

It is ironic ... this is the son who humbled his father and me in his late teens and early twenties and ... implied we were "religious fanatics".

Anyways ... the book deals with how political events throughout the world "MAY" all be coming together to facilitate the "Rapture" of the Church.  Apparently the book involves a fictional story that incorporates all these events.

I have yet to begin reading this thick book but ... summer is almost here and ... hours spent on our boat while hubby is fishing will allow me to read it with few interruptions ... no computer.  LOL

Regarding the Anti-Christ.  I have been there; done that so many times over the years in my speculating.  I refuse to go there again.  I decided that I am right with God so therefore ... I will not be around to experience the Tribulation.  Why worry about the anti-Christ.  Hey ... maybe God will call me first.

 

Janet

LOL @ "religious fanatic" - they are everywhere!

What I remember (Bible verse retention < 1%), generally speaking, is that we are not to worry about when the exact end is coming.  Until the real end is here, it is nothing but rumor and speculation.  When the end arrives, it is fact. 

The label "religious fanatic" in my experience, may also encompass those that question the laws of man and how they may differ from moral and ethical values. 

[Tamikosmom]

WhiskeyGirl ... the definition of "religious fanatic" in our circle is someone that is "so heavenly bound; they are no earthly good".

 

I realize that "this world is not my home; I am only passing through" but each day of life that I am granted by God ... I will strive to do my small part to ensure that the freedoms that the forefathers of both our countries strived for are preserved for my grandchildren and their children ... for your grandchildren and their children.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

GOD BLESS CANADA!

Janet

 

[caesu]

i don't think this should have a place in politics.

if politicians believe in the rapture myth and actively work towards such an event it is very dangerous.
combine that with an iranian leader who says all sorts of crazy things and believes in the return of the mahdi.

religion has no place in politics whatsoever.
keep that to everyones private lives.

[Tamikosmom]

I agree caesu.

However ... the foundational principles and values that the  democracies of the United States and Canada were founded on form an ideology which I embrace.

In a local, provincial or national election in Canada ... I work with and cast my ballot for the candidate who most closely reflects those principles and values ... most closely reflects my ideology.

Others may not embrace my ideology ... therefore their votes will obviously be cast in favor of another candidate.

Once the ballots have been counted ... all citizens then rally around the winning candidate.  That is what the democratic system is all about.

However ... it is crucial that candidates who are running for positions within the democratic system are portraying an honest reflection of the ideologies they claim to represent.  It is crucial that the people are not being deceived.

Common sense dictates that words and actions of a candidate prior to campaigning must be scrutinize and ... the candidate should have no objection to that scrutiny.  The people must be assured prior to casting their ballots that a candidate is not a "wolf in sheep's clothing."  The people must be aware of the implications of the "changes" that their candidates is proposing.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Hi cbb ... I see ya lurking.

 

Hubby and I just got home from church and ... will be leaving shortly.  We will be spending this beautiful Sunday afternoon at daughter's home in the Eastern Fraser Valley ... a 45 minute drive.

I hope you are having a good day.

Janet
12:40 PM

[crazybabyborg]

Well, Tamik...............you and I could vote together because I also am guided by the principles you described. Actually, I've always looked at it this way: Political demands of any campaign can cause a candidate to "color" their remarks depending on which way the wind is blowing. After all, they are trying to get elected. The world challenges may look very different during their term and the questions we want answers to may not even be a question during the campaign. If we can get a sense of someone's values, general beliefs and philosophies, and yes, character, then I believe that's a valid criteria to consider when choosing a candidate. I know how my faith has shaped my values and ethics and therefore I do think a candidate's religion is germain in a voter's decision.

Any sense of "right and wrong" has an origin that is at least mirrored in the religions of the world. It's extreme, but if you contrast the concept of honor and value of the individual vs. the collective or the philosophy of all others as infidels that aren't of a particular religion, then the nature of the religion a candidate adheres to is monumentally important. It matters to me because it tells me more than I could possibly come to know over the course of a campaign.

[Kermit]

Ezekiel: 38-39 details the battle in the bible in the last days

Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first and that man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

(The Rapture happens first then the Anti Christ

then the chapter goes on to explain how He that restrains will be taken out of the way, then the lawless one will be revealed (lawless one being the Anti Christ)

That's the verse I was thinking of while reading these posts, Kermit! I've always found it interesting that before John was given the Revelation of "those things to come" in Revelation, he was "called up" with the voice of a trumpet. Many people feel that is also an indication that the Church will be removed before the tribulation period, especially coupled with 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 :

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation 4:1-2
After this, I looked, and lo, in heaven an open door! And the voice which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, "Come hither, and I will show you what must take place after this." At once I was in the Spirit, and lo, a throne stood in heaven with one seated on the throne!

crazybaby,

I agree. But isn't there another perception that the church will not be called up until after the Anti-Christ is revealed and then peace for 3 years and then the rapture?

I'm not sure in the bible where it states that though.

[Kermit]

i don't think this should have a place in politics.

if politicians believe in the rapture myth and actively work towards such an event it is very dangerous.
combine that with an iranian leader who says all sorts of crazy things and believes in the return of the mahdi.

religion has no place in politics whatsoever.
keep that to everyones private lives.

Separation of church and state.

However, if it is part of one's belief system, then it's like psychological behavior that one would base their opinions and/or choices upon. Thus, abortion, I'm sure comes from their religious beliefs perhaps cuz I don't know that male politicians base their opinions of choice on personal experiences, they can't so where else would they get their decisions to be yah or nay for abortion do you think?

[Auntiem]

   Isn't Murder against the law in this country!!! Or does the law just protect "Big People"  and not little babies!!!

[crazybabyborg]

Ezekiel: 38-39 details the battle in the bible in the last days

Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first and that man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

(The Rapture happens first then the Anti Christ

then the chapter goes on to explain how He that restrains will be taken out of the way, then the lawless one will be revealed (lawless one being the Anti Christ)

That's the verse I was thinking of while reading these posts, Kermit! I've always found it interesting that before John was given the Revelation of "those things to come" in Revelation, he was "called up" with the voice of a trumpet. Many people feel that is also an indication that the Church will be removed before the tribulation period, especially coupled with 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 :

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation 4:1-2
After this, I looked, and lo, in heaven an open door! And the voice which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, "Come hither, and I will show you what must take place after this." At once I was in the Spirit, and lo, a throne stood in heaven with one seated on the throne!

crazybaby,

I agree. But isn't there another perception that the church will not be called up until after the Anti-Christ is revealed and then peace for 3 years and then the rapture?

I'm not sure in the bible where it states that though.

Yes, Kermit, there is. The word "rapture" doesn't appear in the Bible at all and everything about the timing is all conjecture. The verses above are often cited to support the opinion of a pre-tribulation rapture. My own opinion (and I would never argue the point, primarily because the Bible is not specific in the timing and therefore I'm not absolutely confident about it), is that it will occur before the 7 year tribulation, and maybe even mark the onset.

Let me say this: I think the topic of Rapture is interesting and I'm not in any way trying to convince anyone of a thing. There is nothing in the timing that contradicts anyone elses belief, and whatever God's plan is, I've never found anything in scripture that would impact His purpose by taking believers out either before or at the mid point. It's just interesting and I don't mean to stir up controversy or offend anyone. It's just my opinion, and contribution to a lively discussion.

Having said that, I will say that part of the reason I lean toward a pre-tribulation rapture is found in 2Thessalonians 2:7-8:

7.For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8.And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

I believe the restrainer of "the spirit of lawlessness" is the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit resides in believers. In order for the Holy Spirit to be taken out of the way as a restrainer, believers would have to be removed. It also makes sense to me that, anti-christ will be so "Christ-like" during the first 3 1/2 years that it will take the Holy Spirit's discernment to tell the difference. I'm not sure he could rise to such heights as to accomplish peace in the Middle East and rebuild the Jewish Temple to boot with studied believers watching. The first half of Tribulation will be a time of great peace and security, brought by antichrist.

Another thing that I find compelling is the seven feasts God directed Israel to observe in Leviticus 23 and 24. There is a remarkable foreshadowing in them. Briefly, here's the comparison:

1. The Feast of Passover (Blood covering the door causing death to "pass over") foreshadowing Christ’s crucifixion.

2. The seven-day Feast of Unleavened Bread, symbolizing the partaking of our sinless savior's body, that is, receiving the bread of life.

3. The Feast of First Fruits celebrating Christ’s resurrection (which also includes us).

4. The Feast of Pentecost: To be celebrated 50 days after the Feast of First Fruits. The time period is identical to that from Christ’s resurrection to the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was given. (Christ had appeared to His followers over a period of 40 days; and upon being ascended, He asked the disciples to wait (an additional 10 days as it turned out.)

5. The Feast of the Trumpets: This was the harvest-time feast held in the seventh month, when Israel looked forward to the coming of the Messiah and presents a picture of our being gathered to Him in the rapture.

6. The Day of Atonement pointing to the tribulation, the day of Jacob's trouble when after so much suffering they shall recognize Him whom they have pierced.

7. The Feast of the Tabernacles corresponding to the millennium when Israel would celebrate the Messiah.

The first four feasts have been fulfilled. The next is the feast of trumpets. The "calling up" of believers is associated with the sound of trumpets.

Anyway, like I said, it's an interesting topic and I can enjoy discussing it, but the timing isn't one of those things that I'd defend. There are those who believe that rapture will happen at the point that antichrist is suddenly rejected by the Jews for defiling the temple:

(Matthew 24:15).
"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)"

Daniel 9:27:
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.'  In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. "

Daniel 11:31
31 "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.
 
Certainly the Bible teaches that Salvation will be "of the Jews" in those days. This event occurs at the the midpoint of the 7 years, and I am certain that rapture occurs then if not before. Jews will be the ones that discern truth. The abomination in their temple by antichrist will be measured against their scripture. The Jews have the Knowledge of God and through their faith and heroism, there will be many tribulation Saints!
 

Sorry for the sermon! As I said, it's my opinion only and not meant to stir up controversy or discontent.