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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 - 5/15/08  (Read 329716 times)
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bleachedblack
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« Reply #340 on: May 12, 2008, 08:04:22 PM »

As i rcall the shallow grave was found by TES in Arikok, Alto Vista is more to the North.

http://www.aruba.com/about/regionalmap.php
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« Reply #341 on: May 12, 2008, 08:06:10 PM »

Natalee Hollway Search, July 26 - August 1, 2005 by Robert Cooke
Tim Miller, the director of Texas EquuSearch, Tim's friend Kevin, and I flew to Aruba on Tuesday. We want to set up things and define search areas for the specialized search teams that are coming later this week. Tim appeared live on Fox's ON THE RECORD WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN within two hours of our arrival in Aruba. I met Natalee Holloway's mother Beth while waiting for the show.I gave her the ribbons the Laci Peterson ribbon makers made for Natalee. Beth gave me one of the wristbands made for Natalee, which are similar to the Lance Armstrong Foundation wristbands.

The next day, Kevin and I started working on a schedule for the week. The ground penetrating radar (GPR) team and TES search leader and lead diver Joe Huston also flew in on Wednesday.

Thursday, the GPR team scanned an area in the Arikok National Park where a shallow grave and duct tape with blonde hair were found. I picked up the first dog team at the airport and took them to the hotel. A new witness came forward who said he saw a female being dumped in the Aruba landfill two days after Natalee disappeared. Kevin went to the landfill and listened to what the witness had to say. The information was credible enough for us to search the landfill tomorrow. I appeared on MSNBC's ABRAMS REPORT tonight. They asked me questions about the GPR and Natalee's search. I also explained Rachel's disappearance.

Friday most of the team went to the landfill. The GPR and methane people searched the beach near the Marriott Hotel. Dave Holloway and his father-in-law accompanied us to the dump. A K9 got a hit in one area. Three small mounds were flattened there by a bulldozer, and the dog was still interested in the ground. A backhoe then dug down about three feet. The K9 then lost interest.

The backhoe was moved to the area where the witness said a body was dumped. A second backhoe arrived, and that one dug 5-6 foot deep holes about 50 yards apart. The backhoes then moved toward each other. I left the landfill to pick up a second K9 team at the airport. Later that night, Tim Miller and I appeared on ON THE RECORD WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN.

Saturday the landfill search continued. We only had one backhoe, so we carefully dug where the landfill supervisor said the garbage for early June would be. Newspaper dates were checked as we dug to make sure we were in the correct area.

The dogs checked the holes in the early morning and late afternoon for human scents. At one point they got a hit, but it turned out to be medical waste. Geraldo Rivera's brother Greg interviewed a few searchers today. One of the K9 teams appeared on Fox's HEARTLAND, Joe Huston and I were on THE BIG STORY, and Tim Miller was on AT LARGE WITH GERALDO RIVERA.

Sunday Joe Huston and I spent most of the day at the landfill. We bought better masks, which helped a lot. An ad will be placed in tomorrow's newspaper asking for equipment and operator donations to continue the landfill search on Tuesday.

I did interviews with ABC, Associated Press, and PEOPLE magazine. The PEOPLE article about Natalee Holloway should be in an early August edition.

Monday a team was sent to the old Atlantis Hotel. Tim, Kevin, and I flew back to Texas. Some of the team will remain in Aruba to complete the landfill search.
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« Reply #342 on: May 12, 2008, 08:11:02 PM »

As i rcall the shallow grave was found by TES in Arikok, Alto Vista is more to the North.

http://www.aruba.com/about/regionalmap.php

Tim Miller
RED - SCARED MONKEYS
July 24, 2005


RED: There have been reports that a shallow grave was discovered in the area of Boca Tortuga, on the eastern part of the island. There are also reports that cell-phone calls made by Joran early in the morning came from a location on the eastern side of the island. It seems plausible that thisarea could yield more clues

TIM MILLER: We found a site that we feel as though was a possible gravesite. Our thoughts are that Natalee may have been buried in that hole for 1 or 2 days then moved. We have information that the cell phones were possibly being used in that area
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/07/24/interview-transcript-with-tim-miller-july-24th-2005/
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« Reply #343 on: May 12, 2008, 08:12:51 PM »

Your right BB..I think the shallow grave was on the Northern part of the park by the Natural bridge and the Alto Vista Church is North of there..But PVDS still could have taken that rd to get to that area. I have a short vid and screens of the shallow grave but all they say is Arikok Park.
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« Reply #344 on: May 12, 2008, 08:18:59 PM »

Hi Rob,

Yes could have been Fred Golba..I was in a chat with Art Wood and he definetly said it was PVDS and it creeped Fred or Joe out..I think one of them mentioned it in a interview also..Beth use to pray at that Church but I don't think it had anything to do with her. This was the day after they found that belt and were searching that N.E. Side. If I am not mistaken I believe the shallow grave was found not far from there in the National Park.

wonder if Fred or Joe remembers what kind of car he spotted him in???

Maybe forward him that photo from the Aru-Bay video? (To Art to forward to Joe or Fred).
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« Reply #345 on: May 12, 2008, 08:21:11 PM »

Art Wood interviewed a "Fransisco" twice as he was adamant that he helped bury Natalee with two others using a white PU. One of his friends worked at the Marriott and  as you know there are other witnesses who say they saw Natalee placed in a tarp in a white pu at the Marriott. There is also that Fisherman that tells a very similar story and the details match up with Junior and what he saw a day later at the dump. The Fisherman mentioned something about only getting to that location in a ATV.

As you know this Fransisco was locked up almost immediately in a mental hospital after telling the ALE what he did,when Art Interviewed this man his friends said he was not crazy. Looking at all the witnesses this is the only Fransisco I see and a June 10th interview is interesting to say the least.

Name: Elgen Fransisco Kock
Date: 10 June 2005
Pages: 1
Writer/Initiator: Fleur Tromp
Description: witness statement
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 08:23:37 PM by Observer » Logged

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« Reply #346 on: May 12, 2008, 08:22:07 PM »


wonder if Fred or Joe remembers what kind of car he spotted him in???

Maybe forward him that photo from the Aru-Bay video? (To Art to forward to Joe or Fred).

PVDS was definetly in his Red Jeep.
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« Reply #347 on: May 12, 2008, 08:25:34 PM »

Your right BB..I think the shallow grave was on the Northern part of the park by the Natural bridge and the Alto Vista Church is North of there..But PVDS still could have taken that rd to get to that area. I have a short vid and screens of the shallow grave but all they say is Arikok Park.

Karl Penhaul
NANCY GRACE
July 13, 2005


PENHAUL: The searchers were at an area called Boca Prim (ph). That`s on the northern side of the island near the national park.

It`s an area of soft sand dunes. There`s only one road to get down there. It`s a very rough road. You can really only get there by four-wheel drive.  It`s where a dry riverbed meets the ocean. And it`s at that area where this thing that looked like a grave, a hole, about four feet deep and about the length of a body with a mound of sand beside it, was found, Nancy.

GRACE: Now, also, on the north end of the island, where they were today, is that where that lighthouse is?

PENHAUL: Not really, no. The lighthouse is at the northern tip, at the northwest tip. And this area is really on the northeastern side of the island.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/13/ng.01.html
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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« Reply #348 on: May 12, 2008, 08:26:42 PM »


wonder if Fred or Joe remembers what kind of car he spotted him in???

Maybe forward him that photo from the Aru-Bay video? (To Art to forward to Joe or Fred).

PVDS was definetly in his Red Jeep.

so not the small silver car??? thanks... that still leaves out the possibility that was PVDS in that car. So that would have had to have been before his buggy was locked up. His Jeep was confiscated on the 15th right? So, that leaves about 15 days while he was probably running all over that island. He may have been seen at other locations too.

That nut Ed Smith said he saw Dave driving a red Jeep and it rolled right in front of them when the were filming - but it turned out it was Paul Reynolds.
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« Reply #349 on: May 12, 2008, 08:29:49 PM »

Mental hospitals seem to come up a lot in Aruba.  According Joran, Van Der Straaten tried to give him that option, Carlos S Tromp was being railroaded in that direction and now you say that this June 10th witness who we believe may have told Art that he buried Natalee is off to a padded room.

Aruba must get some type of volume credit with the mental institutions in Holland.
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« Reply #350 on: May 12, 2008, 08:33:00 PM »

As i rcall the shallow grave was found by TES in Arikok, Alto Vista is more to the North.

http://www.aruba.com/about/regionalmap.php

Tim Miller
RED - SCARED MONKEYS
July 24, 2005


RED: There have been reports that a shallow grave was discovered in the area of Boca Tortuga, on the eastern part of the island. There are also reports that cell-phone calls made by Joran early in the morning came from a location on the eastern side of the island. It seems plausible that thisarea could yield more clues

TIM MILLER: We found a site that we feel as though was a possible gravesite. Our thoughts are that Natalee may have been buried in that hole for 1 or 2 days then moved. We have information that the cell phones were possibly being used in that area
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/07/24/interview-transcript-with-tim-miller-july-24th-2005/

I wonder where the woman saw the four sweaty boys with shovels?  Did she ever call back?  Maybe she was recorded?

When was the power outage?  Maybe that's when the body was dumped at sea? 
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« Reply #351 on: May 12, 2008, 08:38:44 PM »

Wheres the belt now and what was PVDS doing out there?




Art Wood:I had specific information to a possible site where she might have been buried. Last night, just prior to dark, I went out there.  I dug around.  I came up with that belt.  I didn‘t turn it over to authorities last night because I wasn‘t sure of the significance.  But I remembered that photograph, the photograph that was on Joran‘s Web site, the site where he was shown doing sadistic things to his friends, the same Web site that showed him drunk, and so forth.

And I thought, Man, that belt looks like the same belt.  So this morning, I checked our research photograph file at the “Diario,” and I believe that that‘s a pretty good match.  I‘m going to leave it to the authorities to do forensic work, maybe computer enhancement, and see if they can identify that belt.

I will tell you this, the area where the belt was found is an area that we‘re concentrating on.  We have a search team in that area tonight as we speak.

COSBY:  Oh, you do?  How many folks do you have out there?  And how big is that area, Art, where we‘re looking now?

WOOD:  Well, we—they‘ve taped off an area out there that I showed them where I think would be significant.  It‘s not a large area.  The dunes area is a large area, but tonight, they‘re specifically searching a small area that I felt was significant.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8925236

« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 08:48:05 PM by Observer » Logged

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« Reply #352 on: May 12, 2008, 08:42:48 PM »

Mental hospitals seem to come up a lot in Aruba.  According Joran, Van Der Straaten tried to give him that option, Carlos S Tromp was being railroaded in that direction and now you say that this June 10th witness who we believe may have told Art that he buried Natalee is off to a padded room.

Aruba must get some type of volume credit with the mental institutions in Holland.

Heres the guy that decides all that..Caps calls him Super dirty hands and something tells me he has been at work in this case. I read a bit about this guy and it's no wonder why he is so feared.

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« Reply #353 on: May 12, 2008, 08:48:21 PM »

Mental hospitals seem to come up a lot in Aruba.  According Joran, Van Der Straaten tried to give him that option, Carlos S Tromp was being railroaded in that direction and now you say that this June 10th witness who we believe may have told Art that he buried Natalee is off to a padded room.

Aruba must get some type of volume credit with the mental institutions in Holland.

Heres the guy that decides all that..Caps calls him Super dirty hands and something tells me he has been at work in this case. I read a bit about this guy and it's no wonder why he is so feared.



His name came up a few times in Tromp's manifesto.  I can see where this guy could be a very dangerous character.

If Carlos S. Tromp is Shango....and I am saying IF ... I would have to believe it's possible that Tromp/Shango was posting from the angle of exposing the entire corrupt judicial system in Aruba.  Would he have known what really happened to Natalee??  Maybe from the "word on the street" if he still knows people on Aruba.
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« Reply #354 on: May 12, 2008, 08:49:55 PM »




I had specific information to a possible site where she might have been buried. Last night, just prior to dark, I went out there.  I dug around.  I came up with that belt.  I didn‘t turn it over to authorities last night because I wasn‘t sure of the significance.  But I remembered that photograph, the photograph that was on Joran‘s Web site, the site where he was shown doing sadistic things to his friends, the same Web site that showed him drunk, and so forth.

And I thought, Man, that belt looks like the same belt.  So this morning, I checked our research photograph file at the “Diario,” and I believe that that‘s a pretty good match.  I‘m going to leave it to the authorities to do forensic work, maybe computer enhancement, and see if they can identify that belt.

I will tell you this, the area where the belt was found is an area that we‘re concentrating on.  We have a search team in that area tonight as we speak.

COSBY:  Oh, you do?  How many folks do you have out there?  And how big is that area, Art, where we‘re looking now?

WOOD:  Well, we—they‘ve taped off an area out there that I showed them where I think would be significant.  It‘s not a large area.  The dunes area is a large area, but tonight, they‘re specifically searching a small area that I felt was significant.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8925236




Jossy Mansur
DANA SHOW
June 18, 2006


MANSUR: It does look very familiar to what she was wearing, but I'm unable to confirm it, we would have to go search for the fabric itself which has disappeared since. Every piece of evidence or what appears to be evidence has disappeared or we never heard about it again.
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #355 on: May 12, 2008, 08:51:40 PM »

Sorry...I guess my last post really belongs in the Shango/Simian thread.  I am reading both and going back and forth I sometimes forget which one I am posting in.

 
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« Reply #356 on: May 12, 2008, 08:56:43 PM »

Old RWV posts - old link...

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/natalee_hollowa_91.html

Quote
It seems incredulous that if someone actually did see a body being dumped at a garbage dump, wouldn't you make an effort to return to the exact spot and actually take a better look, when the dumpsters party had left,then call authorities? Why would anyone just call the police first, without looking? A sane person would look more closely. Hmmmm.... that million dollar reward is bringing out the shysters. However, if he did call police immediately, why wasn't the body found. It is apparent that justice will not be meted out to those 3 young men or the father. I will NEVER visit Aruba after this incident, knowing that the police have done a major cover-up and bungled the case and their arrogance not to allow the FBI to truly participate and give direction, has scared me off this island paradise FOREVER. Shame on Van Der Straaten and the police force.

And why the hell, do the police not obtain a search warrant to check out the well on VDS residence? What is with that? Oh, PVDS is one of their buddies, I get it. This cover-up will never be solved. My heart goes out to the Holloway family. Shame on Deepak and Satish and Joran and Paul. May God's judgement be the one they are most afraid of.
Canada Goose -Maybe they should bring in the 3 CSI shows cast to analyze the mud on the show and solve this case - lol

Posted by: Canada Goose | Sunday, July 31, 2005 at 10:03 PM


Quote
Canada Goose many share your frustration. After watching this unfold..or not unfold for the last 8 weeks I'm seriously considering taking a break from all media etc until there is a serious break in the case....of course what the heck would I watch since everything is in reruns anyway.

I'd like to respond to "However, if he did call police immediately, why wasn't the body found."

I just saw J. Mansur read a letter from a woman who was very annoyed that this info was largely ignored when it was reported - in her letter she also stated that the witness (I'm assuming the same one) had been threatened.

The issue of the well. If it is an abandoned well, it should be searched. However if it is an active well I doubt someone would be so stupid as to contaminate their own drinking/washing water...but hey you never know. Even a capped well can so easily become contaminated by bacteria, water run off, animal feces etc on ground level just imagine what would happen to your water supply if you threw something like a decomposing body down there with all the bacteria and gases etc....I would imagine you would soon smell it coming out of the taps/sinks and I know you'd get pretty sick.

For the record I am NOT a JVS or PVS or Kalpoe supporter, and I'm not Dutch. Personally I couldn't let my frustration caused by a few prejudice my judgement of an entire nation either.

Posted by: bubble | Sunday, July 31, 2005 at 10:35 PM


Quote
Nursemind: I never said anything about banning Aruba.I just stated that the islands have lost their appeal for ME!

It's a sad situation all around.Many people are suffering because of it.

I take no delight in adding to that.

Posted by: peggy | Monday, August 01, 2005 at 07:27 AM


Quote
Prayers to all the family..DO NOT STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO FIND NATALEE.I HAVE BEEN TO ARUBA AND IT SEEMS TO BE PERFECT GET AWAY BUT: EVERYONE HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE.ARUBA IS STILL HOPEING THAT THE H/T FAMILY WILL GO AWAY BUT THEY MUST NOT. TOO MANY UNANSWERD QUESTIONS. IF WE STOP THIS NOW, ANY OTHER USA CITIZED OR ANYONE FOR THAT MATTER SHOULD BE CONCERNED THAT THEIR SAFETY ON ARUBA OR ANY ISLAND IS COMPROMISED. CAN THEY GET AWAY WITH MURDER OR KIDNAPPING?? WHAT DOES THIS MEAN TO FUTURE TRAVELERS, THE GOVERNMENT OF AN ISLAND HIDES THEIR INFORMATION TO EVEN THE IMMEDIATE FAMILY AND DOES NOT ASK FOR HELP WHEN THEY NEVER HAD THIS KIND OF A MISSING TEEN. THANK GOD FOR THE MEDIA COVERAGE AND TEXAX GUYS. WHEY CAN'T THEY GET MORE HEAVY EQUIPMENT TO DIG THAT TRASH SITE?????? WHERE ARE THE GOOD PEOPLE OF ARUBA AND THEIR HEAVY EQUIPMENT..IS SHE THERE???GOOD QUESTION, AND IT MUST BE CLEARED TO MAKE SURE. WHEY SO MANY DAYS HAVE GONE BY AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE EASIEST SITE TO CLEAR...?? GO FOR IT MRS. HOLLOWAY/TWITTY...DON'T LEAVE.....GOD BE WITH YOU AND WITH THE HONEST PEOPLE OF ARUBA, I KNOW THEY ARE OUT THERE, AND GOD BE WITH THE GOVERNMENT THAT THEY CHANGE THEIR LAWS BECASUE WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW IS CRIMINAL AND SNEAKY AND I HOPE THEY CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT..DO THEY HAVE CHILDREN TOO....JOAN

Posted by: Joan P | Friday, August 05, 2005 at 11:57 AM


Quote
This is based off of the assumption you believe that the landfill story has some merit, but>>>

Did anyone else consider that maybe the shoe is at the landfill? Maybe it fell out of the truck? He may have had the shoes in the truck and one fell out. No one would notice anything odd about a single muddy shoe at a landfill.

Posted by: annie | Sunday, July 31, 2005 at 08:13 PM


Back in August 2005, people knew something was just not right.  mo

I wonder what else people were writing to Jossy about?
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« Reply #357 on: May 12, 2008, 09:00:17 PM »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10925978/
Quote
COSBY:   You know, Jossy, that's a pretty big area, isn't it, that they're checking?  The dunes are pretty high?

JOSSY:  Yes, this is a pretty big area. I think Art Wood has narrowed it down to a place where he did find a belt that was buried there.  The belt was given over to the police.  But we haven't heard anything more belt it just simply disappeared. 

COSBY:   In fact, I think they were saying that the belt was too old to be tested?  Which Art would have physically looked at the belt, said it looked like there was still some good stuff on there to be able to at least determine whether or not it was connected.

What do you know about the gag order, too, Jossy.  There is apparently a gag order on Chief Dompig.  And I want to show what we've learned, is that Aruba's attorney general issued the gag order. Deputy Police Chief Gerold Dompig and Prosecutor Karen Janssen aren't allowed to talk about the case. Why are they trying to shut them up, Jossy?

MANSUR:  I have no idea, but the gag order is a reality.  I've heard about this. I've known about this gag order for some time now and they are strictly forbidden to talk to anyone in the media to begin with, and anyone else outside of the investigative team.
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« Reply #358 on: May 12, 2008, 09:01:58 PM »

Sorry...I guess my last post really belongs in the Shango/Simian thread.  I am reading both and going back and forth I sometimes forget which one I am posting in.

 

Come across? 
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« Reply #359 on: May 12, 2008, 09:03:56 PM »

Sorry...I guess my last post really belongs in the Shango/Simian thread.  I am reading both and going back and forth I sometimes forget which one I am posting in.

 

Come across? 


 
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