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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5/15 - 5/20/08  (Read 205618 times)
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wreck
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« Reply #500 on: May 17, 2008, 09:33:25 PM »

Back when Reihlworldview first started blogging about NH in June 2005 I was one of the first people to advance the theory that organized crime, corruption and conspiracy had to be involved given the history and tradition of Aruba, itself.

I was ridiculed, belittled and laughed at and called a conspiracy nut by those who were the heavy posters at the time.  Of course here I use a different name and moniker than over there but it is interesting to me that some three years later this group over here at SM is even deeper into the very thoughts I presented back then.

Now, like SS I have an advanced degree but my expertise on my graduate level happens to be Governmental Affairs with special and considerable expertise into bureaucratic rule making and resource economics. But of course nobody in the past posting relationships over there had any idea of that which is my point right now.

You never know who it is that is doing the posting regarding their real persona or who they might really be -- the internet being so anonymous.  Of course Klass has ip address and all but that is only one part of what anything means in this world of proxy severs and all one could post and look like they are based in Sri Lanka when they might be in Memphis, Tennessee.

That is why I carefully read the material from Caps.  Apparently Klass has much closer contact with this poster than any of the rest of us, and if there was reason to be alarmed I feel Klass would have long ago pulled the plug or banned if she felt there was malicious or dangerous material being spouted out here.

You never know when and where that one clue to solve this case will come from.  Personally I feel that Caps has much more information to share that can safely be posted here and it is possible that this individual might actually be an investigative insider.

In any investigation -- particularly where government officials might be corrupt, it is good idea to not share all the cards one is holding -- especially to the entire internet community. I know this because I have been involved myself in the past in investigating high government corruption.

This is a special community here but it is not a "closed" member only community -- it is wide open for the entire world to see -- both the good guys and the bad guys.  In order to solve the mystery here we have to "feed each other" information, albeit sometimes shrouded in riddles and secrecy, in order to stimulate this investigative brainstorming machine called Scared Monkeys.

If I was to be a betting man here based upon my own expertise and education I wold guess that Caps is trying his best to be above board and helpful.  Same thing with OE. But there are certain things that just can not be shared because they might tip off the bad guys or even give legal reason to contaminate the process of legal evidence presentation in the courts later on.

I believe everyone here has good intentions but it is sad that some take it to a level of being more personal than productive.  To each his or her own regarding whether or not you believe a certain poster or their theories, beliefs or facts.  Lets not attack each other but carefully study what is said and draw our own conclusions.  It is all being done in a collaborative spirit here.

As for me, Caps -- I know you are reading about this debate -- come on back please and enlighten us further with your work and theories.  We need everything we can as far as this case is concerned because we obviously have not solved it yet, right?

INHO


With ya 100%! (I was one of those early RWV posters that agreed with you as well -- I espoused the "seedy underbelly" angle from the get go.
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Destiny
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« Reply #501 on: May 17, 2008, 09:36:06 PM »

I only have more pics of the pond from February.  Sorry. No new photos...yet.  I can only hope they found a reason to continue looking for things under that mud. I have wondered if ground penetrating radar would help.

Lala's  I'll make some calls on Monday...see if I can get us a new scooby snack to chew on....
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
klaasend
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« Reply #502 on: May 17, 2008, 09:39:01 PM »

Sorry I slaughtered your nick, Klaas... I put Klass instead of Klaas because my fingers were going faster than my brain and I know you have a lot of CLASS anyway...

Thanks Silverfox!   As my husband says, everyone wants to make an A** out of me  (AA not SS  )
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #503 on: May 17, 2008, 09:41:34 PM »

I only have more pics of the pond from February.  Sorry. No new photos...yet.  I can only hope they found a reason to continue looking for things under that mud. I have wondered if ground penetrating radar would help.

Lala's  I'll make some calls on Monday...see if I can get us a new scooby snack to chew on....
 

Thanks..do those come in flavors?
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Destiny
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« Reply #504 on: May 17, 2008, 09:43:15 PM »

I only have more pics of the pond from February.  Sorry. No new photos...yet.  I can only hope they found a reason to continue looking for things under that mud. I have wondered if ground penetrating radar would help.

Lala's  I'll make some calls on Monday...see if I can get us a new scooby snack to chew on....
 

Thanks..do those come in flavors?

well...banana is my fav...
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
texasmom
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« Reply #505 on: May 17, 2008, 09:44:21 PM »

Back when Reihlworldview first started blogging about NH in June 2005 I was one of the first people to advance the theory that organized crime, corruption and conspiracy had to be involved given the history and tradition of Aruba, itself.

I was ridiculed, belittled and laughed at and called a conspiracy nut by those who were the heavy posters at the time.  Of course here I use a different name and moniker than over there but it is interesting to me that some three years later this group over here at SM is even deeper into the very thoughts I presented back then.

Now, like SS I have an advanced degree but my expertise on my graduate level happens to be Governmental Affairs with special and considerable expertise into bureaucratic rule making and resource economics. But of course nobody in the past posting relationships over there had any idea of that which is my point right now.

You never know who it is that is doing the posting regarding their real persona or who they might really be -- the internet being so anonymous.  Of course Klass has ip address and all but that is only one part of what anything means in this world of proxy severs and all one could post and look like they are based in Sri Lanka when they might be in Memphis, Tennessee.

That is why I carefully read the material from Caps.  Apparently Klass has much closer contact with this poster than any of the rest of us, and if there was reason to be alarmed I feel Klass would have long ago pulled the plug or banned if she felt there was malicious or dangerous material being spouted out here.

You never know when and where that one clue to solve this case will come from.  Personally I feel that Caps has much more information to share that can safely be posted here and it is possible that this individual might actually be an investigative insider.

In any investigation -- particularly where government officials might be corrupt, it is good idea to not share all the cards one is holding -- especially to the entire internet community. I know this because I have been involved myself in the past in investigating high government corruption.

This is a special community here but it is not a "closed" member only community -- it is wide open for the entire world to see -- both the good guys and the bad guys.  In order to solve the mystery here we have to "feed each other" information, albeit sometimes shrouded in riddles and secrecy, in order to stimulate this investigative brainstorming machine called Scared Monkeys.

If I was to be a betting man here based upon my own expertise and education I wold guess that Caps is trying his best to be above board and helpful.  Same thing with OE. But there are certain things that just can not be shared because they might tip off the bad guys or even give legal reason to contaminate the process of legal evidence presentation in the courts later on.

I believe everyone here has good intentions but it is sad that some take it to a level of being more personal than productive.  To each his or her own regarding whether or not you believe a certain poster or their theories, beliefs or facts.  Lets not attack each other but carefully study what is said and draw our own conclusions.  It is all being done in a collaborative spirit here.

As for me, Caps -- I know you are reading about this debate -- come on back please and enlighten us further with your work and theories.  We need everything we can as far as this case is concerned because we obviously have not solved it yet, right?

INHO


Great post Silverfox!  Thanks!
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Helen Back
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« Reply #506 on: May 17, 2008, 09:45:30 PM »

Sorry I slaughtered your nick, Klaas... I put Klass instead of Klaas because my fingers were going faster than my brain and I know you have a lot of CLASS anyway...

Thanks Silverfox!   As my husband says, everyone wants to make an A** out of me  (AA not SS  )

That's gonna help me remember...........not an ass, not an ass!   



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SS
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« Reply #507 on: May 17, 2008, 09:46:07 PM »

I only have more pics of the pond from February.  Sorry. No new photos...yet.  I can only hope they found a reason to continue looking for things under that mud. I have wondered if ground penetrating radar would help.

Lala's  I'll make some calls on Monday...see if I can get us a new scooby snack to chew on....



Does anyone know where the recent photographs of the drained pond and the scraped dirt came from?  They are great pictures.
Lala's, I know you're holding out on us.  I'll sharpen your pencils for a week if you'll give us a little hint.
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wreck
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« Reply #508 on: May 17, 2008, 09:47:56 PM »

I only have more pics of the pond from February.  Sorry. No new photos...yet.  I can only hope they found a reason to continue looking for things under that mud. I have wondered if ground penetrating radar would help.

Lala's  I'll make some calls on Monday...see if I can get us a new scooby snack to chew on....



Does anyone know where the recent photographs of the drained pond and the scraped dirt came from?  They are great pictures.
Lala's, I know you're holding out on us.  I'll sharpen your pencils for a week if you'll give us a little hint.
Destiny's "contact"
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klaasend
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« Reply #509 on: May 17, 2008, 09:49:02 PM »

I only have more pics of the pond from February.  Sorry. No new photos...yet.  I can only hope they found a reason to continue looking for things under that mud. I have wondered if ground penetrating radar would help.

Lala's  I'll make some calls on Monday...see if I can get us a new scooby snack to chew on....



Does anyone know where the recent photographs of the drained pond and the scraped dirt came from?  They are great pictures.
Lala's, I know you're holding out on us.  I'll sharpen your pencils for a week if you'll give us a little hint.

Yes, Destiny was sent those photos.  I'll let Destiny give you more information.   
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Destiny
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« Reply #510 on: May 17, 2008, 09:49:52 PM »

Back when Reihlworldview first started blogging about NH in June 2005 I was one of the first people to advance the theory that organized crime, corruption and conspiracy had to be involved given the history and tradition of Aruba, itself.

I was ridiculed, belittled and laughed at and called a conspiracy nut by those who were the heavy posters at the time.  Of course here I use a different name and moniker than over there but it is interesting to me that some three years later this group over here at SM is even deeper into the very thoughts I presented back then.

Now, like SS I have an advanced degree but my expertise on my graduate level happens to be Governmental Affairs with special and considerable expertise into bureaucratic rule making and resource economics. But of course nobody in the past posting relationships over there had any idea of that which is my point right now.

You never know who it is that is doing the posting regarding their real persona or who they might really be -- the internet being so anonymous.  Of course Klass has ip address and all but that is only one part of what anything means in this world of proxy severs and all one could post and look like they are based in Sri Lanka when they might be in Memphis, Tennessee.

That is why I carefully read the material from Caps.  Apparently Klass has much closer contact with this poster than any of the rest of us, and if there was reason to be alarmed I feel Klass would have long ago pulled the plug or banned if she felt there was malicious or dangerous material being spouted out here.

You never know when and where that one clue to solve this case will come from.  Personally I feel that Caps has much more information to share that can safely be posted here and it is possible that this individual might actually be an investigative insider.

In any investigation -- particularly where government officials might be corrupt, it is good idea to not share all the cards one is holding -- especially to the entire internet community. I know this because I have been involved myself in the past in investigating high government corruption.

This is a special community here but it is not a "closed" member only community -- it is wide open for the entire world to see -- both the good guys and the bad guys.  In order to solve the mystery here we have to "feed each other" information, albeit sometimes shrouded in riddles and secrecy, in order to stimulate this investigative brainstorming machine called Scared Monkeys.

If I was to be a betting man here based upon my own expertise and education I wold guess that Caps is trying his best to be above board and helpful.  Same thing with OE. But there are certain things that just can not be shared because they might tip off the bad guys or even give legal reason to contaminate the process of legal evidence presentation in the courts later on.

I believe everyone here has good intentions but it is sad that some take it to a level of being more personal than productive.  To each his or her own regarding whether or not you believe a certain poster or their theories, beliefs or facts.  Lets not attack each other but carefully study what is said and draw our own conclusions.  It is all being done in a collaborative spirit here.

As for me, Caps -- I know you are reading about this debate -- come on back please and enlighten us further with your work and theories.  We need everything we can as far as this case is concerned because we obviously have not solved it yet, right?

INHO


With ya 100%! (I was one of those early RWV posters that agreed with you as well -- I espoused the "seedy underbelly" angle from the get go.

I started out at court tv...it got ugly there...then roamed around...websleuths....RWV...ended up on a *sane* planet here....
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
SS
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« Reply #511 on: May 17, 2008, 09:50:49 PM »

I only have more pics of the pond from February.  Sorry. No new photos...yet.  I can only hope they found a reason to continue looking for things under that mud. I have wondered if ground penetrating radar would help.

Lala's  I'll make some calls on Monday...see if I can get us a new scooby snack to chew on....



Does anyone know where the recent photographs of the drained pond and the scraped dirt came from?  They are great pictures.
Lala's, I know you're holding out on us.  I'll sharpen your pencils for a week if you'll give us a little hint.
Destiny's "contact"


Destiny, your contact is a great resource.
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Silverfox
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« Reply #512 on: May 17, 2008, 09:53:14 PM »

Does anyone know anything about archeology or forensic science?  Once something had been identified through scans, how would a team of specialists go about removing something that had been stuck in the mud at the bottom of that pond? That area has obviously been scraped or dug up, and they most certainly attempted to restore the site to it's original condition.  Does anyone have a forensic science background?  It doesn't look like a deep hole was dug and then filled back in.



 

You've got it reversed.  LaLa's Mom has the scoop, not me.

I don't see it as having been dug up...yet.  All I see is some of the dirt has been removed but there is no dirt piled up on the sides that would indicate anything but scraping the surface had occurred. But then again, what would I know about that pond?   Rolling Eyes


You're holding out on us, and you have information.    Should we be getting excited that something is about to happen at the pond?  Can you get us some pictures?

Yep...this Lawyer Dude in NY is *holding* out on us...spill the beans SS...spill em!!!...just kidding....Wink

IF the picture depicts what once was a crime scene it would appear that first the area was allowed to "dry" and that the samples taken were the cracked, dried earth...like a jig-saw puzzle that could be re-pieced together in a forensic laboratory.  The area where the samples were taken are put into perspective by the bucket and the presumed partially buried tire that are seen in the photo.  Who knows?  Maybe the phtographer placed that bucket there to give "persective" as to actual size of the excavation.  Because it appears that the samples taken are only the dried mud crust deep I believe you can almost rule out a body (which I would believe would show a larger displacement deep) -- unless it is in pieces.  Most certainly there would be other things there such as garbage bages or cellophane bags, shoes, jewelry, wallets, etc.

Caps did say the area had been taped and marked at one point when he went there.  Is it still taped and marked? Generally the area excavated would show some indication of also being taped and marked but I have not seen close-ups of the area that would so indicate -- of course this is all supposition.
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Destiny
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« Reply #513 on: May 17, 2008, 09:55:53 PM »

I only have more pics of the pond from February.  Sorry. No new photos...yet.  I can only hope they found a reason to continue looking for things under that mud. I have wondered if ground penetrating radar would help.

Lala's  I'll make some calls on Monday...see if I can get us a new scooby snack to chew on....



Does anyone know where the recent photographs of the drained pond and the scraped dirt came from?  They are great pictures.
Lala's, I know you're holding out on us.  I'll sharpen your pencils for a week if you'll give us a little hint.

Yes, Destiny was sent those photos.  I'll let Destiny give you more information.   

SS...I should have more pond photos...from all angles...and some info by the end of Monday...they are working from their end....hope we get a new chew bone.....I always send my posts to Klaas or another *mod* before posting here...I never know what I might *mess up/with*  by posting too soon...or at all....Natalees' Family comes first....
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
Lala'sMom
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« Reply #514 on: May 17, 2008, 09:56:17 PM »

I only have more pics of the pond from February.  Sorry. No new photos...yet.  I can only hope they found a reason to continue looking for things under that mud. I have wondered if ground penetrating radar would help.

Lala's  I'll make some calls on Monday...see if I can get us a new scooby snack to chew on....



Does anyone know where the recent photographs of the drained pond and the scraped dirt came from?  They are great pictures.
Lala's, I know you're holding out on us.  I'll sharpen your pencils for a week if you'll give us a little hint.

I am not holding out anything that you guys already don't know.  As far as I know they just drained the pond and scraped out some mud.  That is all anyone I know that would know knows.  I am sure there are plans to do more, but I was not privy to that.
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Kat_Gram
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« Reply #515 on: May 17, 2008, 09:56:53 PM »

Does anyone have any recent info on the status of the Dr. Phil lawsuit ? There was to be something happening with the motion to compel , dismissal IF the requested docs were not produced and the last I remember the date was May 6 or May 16 th ?
And Hey Klassend, I do read here every day and I did read about your recent illnesss and I am glad you are back and better. I do not post much, but I still have the interest in the case and all of the Monkeys and like to read every day, even if it is just a short read. Never know when I might peek in and get a good surprise !
Have been busy at work and with family. Trying to make myself of some use to my daughter and SIL and grandgirls. My daughter lost her baby in early March. It was early on in the pregnancy, and it was devastating to all in family.There was no known cause although I suspect it was because she had a really bad flu in January. She is recovered physically and is back at work. I, for some reason haven't been verbal about anything lately. These things just make me realize how much my daughter and her hubby and those girls mean to me. Sorry for being OT, maybe I just needed to share this at this moment. If more, I will go to the musings.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #516 on: May 17, 2008, 10:01:55 PM »

Hey Kat Gram...glad you are well.  So sorry to hear about your daughter..it's so hard to lose a child no matter what stage. You always wonder.  Why don't you pull up a chair and sit with us for a while?
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SS
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« Reply #517 on: May 17, 2008, 10:01:59 PM »

Thanks, SilverFox.  I never considered that the bucket had been placed there to give us a size perspective.  See, I knew we needed some information from a forensics person.
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klaasend
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« Reply #518 on: May 17, 2008, 10:02:33 PM »

Kat_Gram  - HUGS to you
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #519 on: May 17, 2008, 10:06:58 PM »

Thanks, SilverFox.  I never considered that the bucket had been placed there to give us a size perspective.  See, I knew we needed some information from a forensics person.

What if the mud that was removed had nothing to do with the investigation?
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