Natalee Case Discussion #752 5/15 - 5/20/08

[Destiny]

OE

Did you see the 3 new photos we got today?   Is it the same pond you scanned?....please let me know....it's driving me crazy....

TIA...Destiny

[AZSunny]

Different pond?

++++++++++++++

>>>>SNIP

Police on Friday night used searchlights and cameras on the ground and from the air to look at areas of interest under the remaining water in the pond.

The search yielded nothing, authorities said. On Saturday morning, divers searched one spot in the middle of pond, but came up with nothing.

http://www.courttv.com/news/holloway/080205_ap.html

This is from August 2005, correct?

[Blue Moon]

Hint - he's not using the nickname Robots on the front page.  Problem is, if I tell you his front page nickname I'll blow his cover 

I can recognize his posts anywhere.  I have read him on the FP and immediately knew who it was.

[Observer]

Destiny,

Nice job on getting those pictures..Thanks! 

[Blue Moon]

How often are these aerial photo's updated?



Here is the latest photo:



I had the impression that google earth was updated often, could this be the same "pond"?

I thought Google Earth was only updated approx every 2 years.

Google updates their imagery based in several factors: usage, variability, population density, and available imagery.  In places such as Las Vegas, usership is very high and new imagery is often spliced in to keep up with construction and new land use.  In rural areas 2-5 year old imagery is common.  In areas where there is more frequent cloud cover, once better imagery is acquired with lower cloud cover they will update the imagery.  Also, they use different imagery at different scales of observation.  This is a common technique when one image is good, but serious artifacts exist in the data.  Sometimes they take a recent good image with a few clouds and remove the clouds by cutting out the clouds with a supervised/unsupervised classification and back-lapping other imagery so the holes are filled in.  Different types of imagery are used in different areas.  In high interest areas, Ikonos or Quickbird imagery is used.  In Siberia... it's probably Landsat7.   

I worked in an advanced remote sensing and spatial analysis lab for a while working on processing and analysis of satelite imagery.

WHOA---I am IMPRESSED o.e.   

[Destiny]

Destiny,

Nice job on getting those pictures..Thanks! 

YW.....Des

[Observer]

Here ya go OE..I bet they wish they had your equipment on those early searches


 

Searching with sonar
Volunteer member of Texas EquuSearch, Ralph Baird, of Houston, reads a map of Aruba's waters during a sonar search for missing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway who disappeared on this Dutch Caribbean Island on May 30, off the northwestern coast of Aruba, Sunday, June 26, 2005.
(AP Photo/Leslie Mazoch)

Jun 27, 2005

[Destiny]

looking at the pond photos...all the vegetation around it...makes me think more about what Jorine said about hiding her in the bushes.....

[WhiskeyGirl]

looking at the pond photos...all the vegetation around it...makes me think more about what Jorine said about hiding her in the bushes.....

Yes, and carry her through the pond to a remote area, and lose your shoes in the muck.  I don't think a person would leave a visible trail. 

[AZSunny]

looking at the pond photos...all the vegetation around it...makes me think more about what Jorine said about hiding her in the bushes.....

I thought about the same thing Destiny.  And that little pathway gave them a privacy zone from the street.  Makes me sick to think about it. 

Thanks Destiny for reaching out and going the extra mile to get the info.

[oceanexploration]

Kyle, what is your assessment of the case at this point? Is it possible that ALE has forensic evidence from these water searches?

Fabric and DNA remains were found in the fish trap, yet we have been told nothing.
This pond was drained and searched by Dutch experts, yet we have been told nothing.

Honestly it's hard to answer that question without mixing facts with speculation.  If you want my opinion for whatever it's worth, here it is.

From the beginning, the case was made very public and the cover-up started almost immediately, presumably to protect the tourism interests of the Island, if nothing else. The Persistence search was something of a turning point in the case in the way it was being handled.  Most people involved in the investigation from the beginning were replaced with others who are being heavily scrutinized to avoid further problems. 
If this case were being handled properly we should hear nothing until there were arrests.  All evidence and the investigation should be kept completely quiet until all the pieces are in place to make a proper arrest and charge all of the people involved.  I have good reason to believe this case is being handled better than before the Persistence search. 

- The investigative team is extensive and qualified from my understanding, though I am not in contact with them. 
- The Polis has spent something on the order of half their annual budget already just working on the Holloway case. 
- I know at least 40 investigators were brought in from Holland in regards to the investigation, though Caps quotes 52.  52 or 40, I don't know but it's a lot of man power for a case recently reopened from a cold-case IMO. 
- Samples collected from the trap were sent to the FBI for analysis and they won't comment on the case at all. 
- The Monserat pond was searched after it was pumped dry.  No one is commenting on the pond search.

I trust most of the people now leading the investigation.  That's difficult to say across the boards, but I do trust most.  If the investigation is active and moving forward, I would expect silence and results over time.  How much time?  I wouldn't expect to hear anything by at least September but this is only a guess.  The fact that there is silence is either incouraging or discouraging depending on how you look at it.  If you're an optimist, silence means the investigation is proceeding carefully and quietly which is good.  If you're a pessimist, the silence means nothing is happening and the waiting will highly frustrate you.

Personally, I think it's a coin flip but am optimistic that at least the investigation into the investigation will be handled fully.

[oceanexploration]

OE

Did you see the 3 new photos we got today?   Is it the same pond you scanned?....please let me know....it's driving me crazy....

TIA...Destiny

Yes, it is certainly the same pond that we searched in February.

[oceanexploration]

Here ya go OE..I bet they wish they had your equipment on those early searches


 

Searching with sonar
Volunteer member of Texas EquuSearch, Ralph Baird, of Houston, reads a map of Aruba's waters during a sonar search for missing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway who disappeared on this Dutch Caribbean Island on May 30, off the northwestern coast of Aruba, Sunday, June 26, 2005.
(AP Photo/Leslie Mazoch)

Jun 27, 2005

It is frustrating not having the right tools and people for the job.  Thanks for sharing the pic and info.  I hadn't seen it before.

~K

[texasmom]

Thanks for the information Kyle, we appreciate it!   

[Dayhiker]

Kyle, what is your assessment of the case at this point? Is it possible that ALE has forensic evidence from these water searches?

Fabric and DNA remains were found in the fish trap, yet we have been told nothing.
This pond was drained and searched by Dutch experts, yet we have been told nothing.

Honestly it's hard to answer that question without mixing facts with speculation.  If you want my opinion for whatever it's worth, here it is.

From the beginning, the case was made very public and the cover-up started almost immediately, presumably to protect the tourism interests of the Island, if nothing else. The Persistence search was something of a turning point in the case in the way it was being handled.  Most people involved in the investigation from the beginning were replaced with others who are being heavily scrutinized to avoid further problems. 
If this case were being handled properly we should hear nothing until there were arrests.  All evidence and the investigation should be kept completely quiet until all the pieces are in place to make a proper arrest and charge all of the people involved.  I have good reason to believe this case is being handled better than before the Persistence search. 

- The investigative team is extensive and qualified from my understanding, though I am not in contact with them. 
- The Polis has spent something on the order of half their annual budget already just working on the Holloway case. 
- I know at least 40 investigators were brought in from Holland in regards to the investigation, though Caps quotes 52.  52 or 40, I don't know but it's a lot of man power for a case recently reopened from a cold-case IMO. 
- Samples collected from the trap were sent to the FBI for analysis and they won't comment on the case at all. 
- The Monserat pond was searched after it was pumped dry.  No one is commenting on the pond search.

I trust most of the people now leading the investigation.  That's difficult to say across the boards, but I do trust most.  If the investigation is active and moving forward, I would expect silence and results over time.  How much time?  I wouldn't expect to hear anything by at least September but this is only a guess.  The fact that there is silence is either incouraging or discouraging depending on how you look at it.  If you're an optimist, silence means the investigation is proceeding carefully and quietly which is good.  If you're a pessimist, the silence means nothing is happening and the waiting will highly frustrate you.

Personally, I think it's a coin flip but am optimistic that at least the investigation into the investigation will be handled fully.

You da man, Kyle! Thanks for the info.

[texasmom]

looking at the pond photos...all the vegetation around it...makes me think more about what Jorine said about hiding her in the bushes.....

I thought about the same thing Destiny.  And that little pathway gave them a privacy zone from the street.  Makes me sick to think about it. 

Thanks Destiny for reaching out and going the extra mile to get the info.

Destiny,

[Destiny]

OE

Did you see the 3 new photos we got today?   Is it the same pond you scanned?....please let me know....it's driving me crazy....

TIA...Destiny

Yes, it is certainly the same pond that we searched in February.

THANK YOU OE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Destiny]

KLAAS....hope you are feeling much...much...better!

May I ask another favor of you....can you bring the 3 new photos from the last thread...over to here...I don't know how...I keep flipping between 2 threads to look at things...

TIA...Destiny

[San]

KLAAS....hope you are feeling much...much...better!

May I ask another favor of you....can you bring the 3 new photos from the last thread...over to here...I don't know how...I keep flipping between 2 threads to look at things...

TIA...Destiny

[Destiny]

looking at the pond photos...all the vegetation around it...makes me think more about what Jorine said about hiding her in the bushes.....

I thought about the same thing Destiny.  And that little pathway gave them a privacy zone from the street.  Makes me sick to think about it. 

Thanks Destiny for reaching out and going the extra mile to get the info.

Destiny,

YW...AZ...and...Tex...I told you all I was better at *calling* than writing...but our article still will be published...Thanks to ALL who helped with that!

Destiny