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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #754 5/28 - 5/31/08  (Read 227168 times)
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #440 on: May 30, 2008, 12:48:58 PM »

Interesting how this shoe brings the Kalpoes back into the focus.  Deepak drove to the lighthouse...they never said they left Joran and Natalee there....oh woe to this shoe...the shoes, the shoes...it's always the shoes. 
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #441 on: May 30, 2008, 12:49:39 PM »

Janet - good to have you back in the "cage" 

Posted at RU:

Quote from: Pragmatist
Looking into my crystal ball:

I'm saying that is Joran's shoe, but it has not been there the entire time. Someone was holding it and planted it there. <-- that part I didn't get from my crystal ball. The weathering is wrong for it to have been out there 3 years. Duh.

Now for a bit of Lighthouse speculative theory:

Why would Natalee want to go see the Lighthouse in the dark? Why would anyone? I know it's a tourist attraction, but damn! It's just a lighthouse and other than to swarmy in all the historical energy from it, what's the big deal? It look like any other lighthouse and in fact not as cool as many others.....UNLESS someone could take you inside it? No man's land where not just anyone can go because it's been locked up for years?

Lighthouses have basements and tunnels. What if Joran knew where to access this area and promised to take Natalee inside it? What if this 'way area' of which Jossy speaks is an area where the tunnels open out?

I'm not saying I believe Joran lost his shoe right there in between those rocks. But I am saying that after all this time someone may have planted it there because they know there is more evidence inside the lighthouse and are hoping for a search of the inside/basement/tunnels.


Sort of like a maze of tunnels...
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wreck
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« Reply #442 on: May 30, 2008, 12:51:15 PM »

Janet - good to have you back in the "cage" 

Posted at RU:

Quote from: Pragmatist
Looking into my crystal ball:

I'm saying that is Joran's shoe, but it has not been there the entire time. Someone was holding it and planted it there. <-- that part I didn't get from my crystal ball. The weathering is wrong for it to have been out there 3 years. Duh.

Now for a bit of Lighthouse speculative theory:

Why would Natalee want to go see the Lighthouse in the dark? Why would anyone? I know it's a tourist attraction, but damn! It's just a lighthouse and other than to swarmy in all the historical energy from it, what's the big deal? It look like any other lighthouse and in fact not as cool as many others.....UNLESS someone could take you inside it? No man's land where not just anyone can go because it's been locked up for years?

Lighthouses have basements and tunnels. What if Joran knew where to access this area and promised to take Natalee inside it? What if this 'way area' of which Jossy speaks is an area where the tunnels open out?

I'm not saying I believe Joran lost his shoe right there in between those rocks. But I am saying that after all this time someone may have planted it there because they know there is more evidence inside the lighthouse and are hoping for a search of the inside/basement/tunnels.
Could be!! I kinda think the shoe was planted and everything found along it is giving us clues. The LOCATION of where it was found could mean something too!
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jackb
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« Reply #443 on: May 30, 2008, 01:03:51 PM »

GOODNIGHT ALL

As you say, it could be a cruel hoax, however the rock looking object just below the toe area of the shoe appears to be a vaacum
packed "brick" of pieces of the victims clothing.  When enlarged in certain manners it shows the hearts, on the darker cloth and the small hearts on the white background cloth as well as pieces of the stripes.  Strange.  The sneaker does show a very light pattern on the toe area that I worked up on some shoes earlier that does fit a pattern of an injury to what appeared to be on the head and on the skull area.  Wheather this is blood or not, or even human blood, it has characteristics of it.  I do not remember noticing the seams in the other shoes I was looking at, but seeing as how there were attempted alterations in the pasted in picture of joran "dancing" on a stage that NH was supposed to have been on, anything is likely.
I believe their mockery of this victim and her family is going to be their downfall eventually.  Someone may have kept these until recently and blackmailed the VDs with it as a life presever to keep from being killed.  This bunch of thugs are dreadful human specimens and I would venture to say they have barely evolved into human beings.   Jackb
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Rob
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« Reply #444 on: May 30, 2008, 01:07:56 PM »

Mum, is that the REAL reason the lighthouse is locked? tunnels underneath?

I have been to the lighthouse a few times, so, I have seen it.... and you don't just start the construction on ground level. That would be very poor construction techniques. Simply building it at ground level would subject to tipping / toppling over...over time, of course.

therefore, it must have a base that is concealed under the ground. The actual foundation must be concealed and there could be a series of tunnels originally used during construction.

I also wonder if any tunnels may connect to the restaurant located near by...

also, when I was playing golf at Tierra Del Sol, I noticed a lot of openings in the cliff-side that separates the lighthouse and the golf course. The legendary goats hang out on those small cliffs and there are what look like cave openings.

Cave opening usually have tunnels, which could lead right under the lighthouse.
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« Reply #445 on: May 30, 2008, 01:11:04 PM »

Mum, is that the REAL reason the lighthouse is locked? tunnels underneath?

I have been to the lighthouse a few times, so, I have seen it.... and you don't just start the construction on ground level. That would be very poor construction techniques. Simply building it at ground level would subject to tipping / toppling over...over time, of course.

therefore, it must have a base that is concealed under the ground. The actual foundation must be concealed and there could be a series of tunnels originally used during construction.

I also wonder if any tunnels may connect to the restaurant located near by...

also, when I was playing golf at Tierra Del Sol, I noticed a lot of openings in the cliff-side that separates the lighthouse and the golf course. The legendary goats hang out on those small cliffs and there are what look like cave openings.

Cave opening usually have tunnels, which could lead right under the lighthouse.

just to add, I saw TES all over that area and on the golf course. That was the morning I ran into them at the Dunkin Donuts across from the Playa Linda.
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wreck
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« Reply #446 on: May 30, 2008, 01:13:42 PM »

I'm intrigued about Mum's "maze" of tunnels post!
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #447 on: May 30, 2008, 01:19:22 PM »

Mum, is that the REAL reason the lighthouse is locked? tunnels underneath?

I have been to the lighthouse a few times, so, I have seen it.... and you don't just start the construction on ground level. That would be very poor construction techniques. Simply building it at ground level would subject to tipping / toppling over...over time, of course.

therefore, it must have a base that is concealed under the ground. The actual foundation must be concealed and there could be a series of tunnels originally used during construction.

I also wonder if any tunnels may connect to the restaurant located near by...

also, when I was playing golf at Tierra Del Sol, I noticed a lot of openings in the cliff-side that separates the lighthouse and the golf course. The legendary goats hang out on those small cliffs and there are what look like cave openings.

Cave opening usually have tunnels, which could lead right under the lighthouse.

Good thinking about the construction Rob! I just saw this morning that the Security guard from the lighthouse was questioned early on, just put it down to the fact that they said they went there!

Just posted about the lighthouse in Shango...LOL...I was reading some old front page a couple of days back and the lighthouse came to mind
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Destiny
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« Reply #448 on: May 30, 2008, 01:20:45 PM »

I'm intrigued about Mum's "maze" of tunnels post!

Me too Wreck...
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I Stand With The Girl *NATALEE HOLLOWAY*

Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
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« Reply #449 on: May 30, 2008, 01:21:57 PM »

Can Dana do a show and have Jossy on and ask
him about these tunnels and underground areas
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« Reply #450 on: May 30, 2008, 01:22:41 PM »

Julia Renfro (Glenda) at RU   April 13, 2008.  You be the judge of the "new" island story line.:

It was bad luck for the van der Sloots that Anita was in Holland that weekend and left her 17 year old son to make bad decisions at home with out her permission in his own country.

And worse luck for the Holloway family that Natalee's mother Beth made a very poor decision and signed a waiver releasing everyone she was with the responsibility of her minor daughter while Beth purchased and gave permission for Natalee to go on an all-inclusive all-the-alcohol-you-can-drink vacation to another country where the laws different. Shocked

In Alabama it is illegal to purchase alcohol for a minor. Beth Purchased 5 days of all her minor child could possibly drink which resulted in Natalee missing.


I am not into hitting women, but that bee aytch needs to be backslapped bad.  That Glenda is a disgrace to womanhood.  jackb
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #451 on: May 30, 2008, 01:24:04 PM »

Really early on! Must knock off at around 11PM?????????

Name: Franklin Ireno Albertus
Date: 01 June 2005 / 23:25
Pages: 2
Writer/Initiator Angelo Anthony & Jonathan Orman
Description: witness statement by a California Lighthouse security guard
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #452 on: May 30, 2008, 01:26:01 PM »

I can’t help but be concerned in regards to Nelson Oduber’s reaction. Pray for the one publication in Aruba and it’s editor who is  willing to take a stand for freedom of expression … a right afforded to every Aruban citizen under Dutch law.

Janet
________________

Amigoe, April 4, 2007: Diario turns to Queen

ORANJESTAD - In an open letter, staff and management of the morning paper Diario have asked the Queen’s attention for the commercial boycott called by the MEP and her leader, Prime Minister Nelson Oduber.

MEP demanded the owner and also director and chief editor Jossy Mansur to publicly apologize to MEP and premier Oduber for all the articles he has published with the intention to damage the reputation of the government and MEP. Mansur has till last Monday to do this, otherwise, the MEP will announce a boycott against Diario.

Since Mansur ignored MEP’s ultimatum, the party decided on a total boycott of the newspaper. No information must be given to Diario. MEP-member had to cancel their subscription as per immediate.. They are also not allowed to buy the paper separately. They cannot place ads in the Diario That’s the reason for Diario’s letter to the Queen. He expressed his concern in this letter and asks the Queen to ’safeguard our constitutional rights’.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/04/06/aruba-hypocrites-mep-oduber-call-for-call-for-boycott-of-diario/

++++++++++++

Amigoe, June 29, 2007: Oduber looses case against Diario

“I have lost enough time in this case already. It has become clear to me that everybody can publish anything they want about the government, and not be prosecuted. We have actually been outlawed.”

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/06/29/aruban-prime-minister-in-defeat-still-does-not-understand-freedom-of-the-press-oduber-loses-to-diario/
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
MumInOhio
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« Reply #453 on: May 30, 2008, 01:26:08 PM »

I'm intrigued about Mum's "maze" of tunnels post!

Me too Wreck...


Too much time in the Shango thread.....
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wreck
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« Reply #454 on: May 30, 2008, 01:26:27 PM »

Julia Renfro (Glenda) at RU   April 13, 2008.  You be the judge of the "new" island story line.:

It was bad luck for the van der Sloots that Anita was in Holland that weekend and left her 17 year old son to make bad decisions at home with out her permission in his own country.

And worse luck for the Holloway family that Natalee's mother Beth made a very poor decision and signed a waiver releasing everyone she was with the responsibility of her minor daughter while Beth purchased and gave permission for Natalee to go on an all-inclusive all-the-alcohol-you-can-drink vacation to another country where the laws different. Shocked

In Alabama it is illegal to purchase alcohol for a minor. Beth Purchased 5 days of all her minor child could possibly drink which resulted in Natalee missing.


I am not into hitting women, but that bee aytch needs to be backslapped bad.  That Glenda is a disgrace to womanhood.  jackb
Nothing burns me up more than the "YOU screwed up ..... you trusted US" line!!
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jackb
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« Reply #455 on: May 30, 2008, 01:30:26 PM »

Unless, of course.... 

The shoe is the real McCoy -- as I believe Des might be theorizing about...

That someone has had this shoe all along and now, for whatever reason (revenge, fear whatever) has decided to unload it in such a way to make sure it got discovered...

After all -- IF this is the shoe and IF what looks like blood really is blood?  and that blood is Nats?  And if the analysis of the shoe also ties to Joran?  Then the case takes a very nasty turn back toward the sporter....AND, wasn't there an allegation recently from perhaps his ex girlfriend at the time (2005) that she was perhaps going to let some things go?  Could this be one of those "Things" or whatever it is?

Questions... Real McCoy?



I know what you are saying....that someone had the real shoe and planted it there to be found? Unfortunately, without the person coming foward to verbally confirm where the shoe was aquired it raises many more questions that it answers.

It very well could be the real mccoy, as you say.  Since there is one.
The other one is where NH is.  I believe that.  jackb
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Rob
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« Reply #456 on: May 30, 2008, 01:31:18 PM »

Mum, is that the REAL reason the lighthouse is locked? tunnels underneath?

I have been to the lighthouse a few times, so, I have seen it.... and you don't just start the construction on ground level. That would be very poor construction techniques. Simply building it at ground level would subject to tipping / toppling over...over time, of course.

therefore, it must have a base that is concealed under the ground. The actual foundation must be concealed and there could be a series of tunnels originally used during construction.

I also wonder if any tunnels may connect to the restaurant located near by...

also, when I was playing golf at Tierra Del Sol, I noticed a lot of openings in the cliff-side that separates the lighthouse and the golf course. The legendary goats hang out on those small cliffs and there are what look like cave openings.

Cave opening usually have tunnels, which could lead right under the lighthouse.

Good thinking about the construction Rob! I just saw this morning that the Security guard from the lighthouse was questioned early on, just put it down to the fact that they said they went there!

Just posted about the lighthouse in Shango...LOL...I was reading some old front page a couple of days back and the lighthouse came to mind

http://tinyurl.com/5pw6o8

Northside Attractions

Northward past the swank Beverly Hills of Aruba neighborhood, the California Lighthouse stands 125 feet (38m) tall atop rugged, desolate terrain. To the west, a German freighter, Antilla, lies in 43 feet (13m) of water, sunk by its captain in World War II to avoid confiscation. Today, its cargo includes colorful tropical fish that attract scuba divers to the popular site. Nearby, you can visit gold mine ruins and the hilltop 18th-century Chapel of Alto Vista, the road down from which is lined with white stations of the cross wreathed in flowers.

Patti would love this one -
Indian Caves

Fontein Caves are inscribed with what guides tell you are Amerindian drawings, but it's also said that the markings were created for a much more recent movie filming. Guides also say that the natural caves were once used by Arawaks for shelter and sacrificing virgins. Guadirikiri and Huliba caves are less synthetic tourist attractions. The Indian Caves are found near Aruba's northeast coast.


if the lighthouse is 125 feet tall, it would need a base of at least 35 feet... maybe someone with an architectural degree would know more.
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ldstlou
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« Reply #457 on: May 30, 2008, 01:32:35 PM »

Can Dana do a show and have Jossy on and ask
him about these tunnels and underground areas

great idea Sue!!!
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klaasend
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« Reply #458 on: May 30, 2008, 01:35:36 PM »

Can Dana do a show and have Jossy on and ask
him about these tunnels and underground areas

great idea Sue!!!

Email Dana and Red:

dana@scaredmonkeys.com
red@scaredmonkeys.com
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ldstlou
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« Reply #459 on: May 30, 2008, 01:36:19 PM »

Unless, of course.... 

The shoe is the real McCoy -- as I believe Des might be theorizing about...

That someone has had this shoe all along and now, for whatever reason (revenge, fear whatever) has decided to unload it in such a way to make sure it got discovered...

After all -- IF this is the shoe and IF what looks like blood really is blood?  and that blood is Nats?  And if the analysis of the shoe also ties to Joran?  Then the case takes a very nasty turn back toward the sporter....AND, wasn't there an allegation recently from perhaps his ex girlfriend at the time (2005) that she was perhaps going to let some things go?  Could this be one of those "Things" or whatever it is?

Questions... Real McCoy?



I know what you are saying....that someone had the real shoe and planted it there to be found? Unfortunately, without the person coming foward to verbally confirm where the shoe was aquired it raises many more questions that it answers.

It very well could be the real mccoy, as you say.  Since there is one.
The other one is where NH is.  I believe that.  jackb

I think it is very telling renho is not announcing it is a fake. Even RU is speculating on the shoe.

I am leaning towards it was found long ago, tucked away, and just brought out and planted. If so, there may be a good chance any dna on the shoe is not too degraded.

We can only hope and pray this leads us to justice.


hmmm....maybe satish DID go back and collect the shoe? Kept it for safe keeping??!!
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"No justice for Natalee - No tourists for Aruba!"
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