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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #754 5/28 - 5/31/08  (Read 227163 times)
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bleachedblack
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« Reply #820 on: May 31, 2008, 12:45:52 PM »


Dang he looks about 50lbs heavier in the pic San posted.
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« Reply #821 on: May 31, 2008, 12:49:00 PM »

Destiny,

Just wondering if your contact in Aruba would mail you a hard copy of the article...of course a PO Box would be good, but most don't have one....just thinking....

They left for vacation today...for one week...won't be back 'till Monday after next...If there is an Aruban Monkey to mail one...I do have a P.O. box in another town nearby....or if they can scan it for here would be great too!

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Aruba Beware *AN ANGEL LIKE NO OTHER* has fallen amongst you....may you know the fury of HEAVEN!
MumInOhio
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« Reply #822 on: May 31, 2008, 12:56:25 PM »

Do we have a photo of Shaniro Kelly?  Anyone?

Sorry I saw Buckeye's post earlier and didn't have time to respond...IIRC Shanira Baldock Kelly.(sp) Female, I think...and there is pics of her at the ALE site, but I can't recall the site name right now! Under photos...few of our friends are there...or were a couple of weeks ago!

Can some-one else help with the link please?  TIA



http://www.kparuba.com/

http://www.kparuba.com/albums/pd3/index.html


Thanks Klaas...not typos...notes from here, copied and pasted...Good luck to the Dr. Phil lawyers if this is what they are working from!!!

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/civil_court_docs/arubancounselfile.htm


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klaasend
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« Reply #823 on: May 31, 2008, 12:57:12 PM »

Destiny,

Just wondering if your contact in Aruba would mail you a hard copy of the article...of course a PO Box would be good, but most don't have one....just thinking....

They left for vacation today...for one week...won't be back 'till Monday after next...If there is an Aruban Monkey to mail one...I do have a P.O. box in another town nearby....or if they can scan it for here would be great too!



I think it was Texasmom who said they had a contact in Aruba that would look for it.
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« Reply #824 on: May 31, 2008, 12:58:53 PM »

MUM - yes, LOL, I've noticed all the typos in that document.
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Destiny
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« Reply #825 on: May 31, 2008, 01:03:52 PM »

Destiny,

Just wondering if your contact in Aruba would mail you a hard copy of the article...of course a PO Box would be good, but most don't have one....just thinking....

They left for vacation today...for one week...won't be back 'till Monday after next...If there is an Aruban Monkey to mail one...I do have a P.O. box in another town nearby....or if they can scan it for here would be great too!



I think it was Texasmom who said they had a contact in Aruba that would look for it.

TY Klaas
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« Reply #826 on: May 31, 2008, 01:54:29 PM »

Just posted at BFN - Joran's 5/31/05 statements  :

[img]

<snipped>

Proces Verbaal (PV-statement)

I, Shanira Baldrik Kelly, officer at the Korps Police Aruba, at the Recherche district 2, state the following:
On Tuesday May 31 2005 around 11:20 I, Kelly have interrogated J.A. VAN DER SLOOT.

During the interrogation I, KELLY, have asked the witness, who was in the company of his father if they had stopped somewhere before they dropped of the girl at the hotel.

The witness VAN DER SLOOT had told me that they, in the neighborhood of the Fisherman's huts had stopped briefly.
I, KELLY had further asked the witness VAN DER SLOOT if they had went in the water. The witness VAN DER SLOOT answered that he and the girl only had went into the water up to their feet. During me putting the statement on paper I KELLY, have forgotten to put this in the statement.

Of which I KELLY, made under oath of duty closed and signed on Bubali May 31 2005.

SB Kelly. (signed)
 
----------------------------------
 
We, Dennis JACOBS and Sharino Baldrik KELLY, respectively head officer and officer at the Corps Police Aruba, first mentioned at the Atraco Team, and the last mentioned at the Section Frequent Crimes district 2, declare the following:

On Tuesday, May 31 around 11:20 am, we interrogators, questioned as a witness the man named:

Joran Andreas Petrus VAN DER SLOOT

Born in the Netherlands on August 6, 1987, student (International School Aruba) and living on the address Montanja Number 19 Aruba.

His, in Papiamento made statement was by me, KELLY, translated into Dutch, and is as follows:

"Last Sunday around 4 pm I had went to the Excelsior Casino. My father had brought me there. I was at the casino to play "Texas Hold'em".

Between 8 pm and 10 pm I went to play Black Jack. Next to me a girl was sitting. The girl started talking to me in English. The girl introduced herself but I did not recall her name. The girl told me that she together with around 150 schoolmates had traveled to Aruba. They had come to Aruba on a "Senior Trip".  She told me that she had lost the amount of us $360 and that that money belonged to her father. She wanted to win back that money in the casino because her father would be mad at her.  I had helped her gambling and she had won us $100,- She asked me how old I was. I answered her that I was 19 years old. She told me that she was 18 years old.

Around 10:30 pm she had told me to go to Carlos and Charlie's. I answered her that I could not go because I had school the next day. She kept on insisting to me going to Carlos and Charlie's. After that I had said that I would go to Carlos and Charlie's.  I had also told her that I would go together with a friend. I have to point out that the girl was drinking white wine while we were in the casino.

Around 11:00 pm, my father had came to pick me up around Mac Donald's. When I walked into the direction of Mac Donald's I had called a friend of mine, named Deepak KALPOE on his cellphone. I had told Deepak that some American girls wanted to go out and if he wanted to go out together with me and them. Deepak had told me he had just left his job that he would go bathe and after that would pick me up at home. I then, together with my father, had driven home.  Deepak has the number XXXXXXXI have a mobile phone that has the number XXXXXXX.

On Monday, May 30 around 00:00 Deepak had picked me up at home. Deepak had also brought his brother Satish in the car. Deepak came with his car, being a grey- 4 door Honda Civic. I had not told my father that I would go out. We immediately drove to Carlos and Charlie's.

Around 00:30 am we had arrived at Carlos and Charlie's. When we got in I saw that a group of 30-50 people were inside. They all were drinking.  The aforementioned girl immediately came to me took me by my hand and pulled me to the bar.  She laid down on the bar, placed a "Jell-O Shot" in her navel and told me to drink it, which I did. I had noticed that the girl was drunk. I had further together with my friends drunk a "Yard" whisky coke. I also had, during the time in which we were in Carlos and Charlie's, drunk a shot of Bacardi 151 proof together with the girl. She also had taken some sips from my whisky coke. We had kissed each others in the Carlos and Charlie's establishment.

Around 01:15, Carlos and Charlie's was closing. Together we walked outside. Outside I had asked the girl if I could go with her together to the Holiday Inn. She had said that she wanted to see my house. I had told her that was ok.  The girl had told her friends that she would go together with me. I together with the girl went to sit on the backseat of Deepak's car. Deepak took the role of the driver of his car and his brother Satish was sitting next to him.  In the car the girl had told us to have the car drive past her friends, so that they could see the car.  All the friends of the girl were standing on the corner of Royal Plaza at the South-East side when we drove by.  In the car we started to kiss each other. My friend Deepak drove by "Choose a Name", Karma lounge and after that we drove over the Saskia road in the direction of the hotels. In the car I had touched the breasts and vagina of the girl. We drove past all the hotels.  In the car I had told the girl that I could not go with her to my house. The girl then had told me that she wanted to go to the North Coast to see sharks. I had told her that there were no sharks to be seen at the North Coast. She answered that there were sharks there and that she had seen them already. We decided to drive into that direction then. We had driven to the "Lighthouse".  On the way there the girl had asked us where we were taking her. She further told us to bring her to the Holiday Inn because the next day she would have to travel back to the United States. We drove past the Lighthouse and after that to the Holiday Inn Hotel.  In the car the girl said that her mother was the sister of Hitler and that they owned a plantation.  She also said that Deepak and Satish were black and that black people worked as slaves on the plantations. The girl was very drunk.

Around 02:00 am we had arrived at the hotel.  At the entrance of the hotel the girl opened the backdoor of the car and fell on the ground. I then went out by the same door and helped her getting up. The girl had told me not to touch her and pushed my hands away. I saw that she then walked in the direction of the "lobby"of the Holiday Inn Hotel. I had not seen anyone in the "lobby".  My friends Deepak and Satish had told me that they had seen a dark skinned man in the lobby. They further told me that they thought that this man was a guard.  After that we drove away. I had not seen if the girl entered the lobby. The only thing I had seen was that the girl was leaning at a cemented pilar at the entrance.

On your question if I can tell you what the girl was wearing I answer you the following. She was wearing a blue jeans skirt and in my opinion a blue tank-top. I was wearing a blue jeans and blue/white shirt. (with the girl the missing woman Natalee Ann HOLLOWAY is referred to, remark by JACOBS).

On your question if I together with the girl had used drugs I answer you no. I also did not see the girl using drugs.

If you have more questions I am willing to answer these.

signed: J.A.P. van der SLOOT
 
After witness J.A.P. van der SLOOT had read his statement, he declared that he insisted in that and signed it.

Of which we, verbalisanten, under oath made this PV, closed and signed on Bubali, on Aruba on May 31 2005.


I dreamed about this statement last night.

 

The spokesperson for the prosecutor implied if the attorneys of the Security Guards and the Kalpoes were not given access to Joran's May 31, 2005 declaration ... it meant that Joran did not implicate their clients.

Well ... the above statement which appears to be Joran's May 31, 2005 declaration does implicate both the Kalpoes and the security guards.

Why was this declaration not given to the Kalpoes' and the security guards' attorneys in the defense of their clients?

Also ... why did John Kelly not have access to any declaration given by Joran prior to his detention.  He was not denied access to the Kalpoes' witness statements of May 31, 2005?


Janet

++++++++++++++

THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE - JORAN'S MISSING WITNESS STATEMENT

Vivian van der Biezen
Nancy Grace
June 10, 2005


VIVIAN VAN DER BIEZEN, SPOKESPERSON FOR ARUBA PROSECUTOR: This is because when a defense attorney has a client, then the defense attorney will have only the statements that relate to his clients. If the defense attorney doesn`t have information about one of the suspects, this means that this suspect did not have any accusations against his client.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/10/ng.01.html


Karl Penhaul
NANCY GRACE
June 15, 2005


GRACE: Karl, let me get this straight. As you know, in America, when there are several suspects, as we call them co-defendants, they all get the statements of each other. Is that not true in Aruba?

PENHAUL: What one of the chief prosecutors has told us so far, Nancy, is that at this stage, in this stage of the investigation, she`s under no obligation to give full disclosure of all of the facts and all the evidence that she has. She`s not under any obligation to give all of the witness statements to the defense attorneys of the other defendants or the other suspects in this case.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/15/ng.01.html
 

KALPOE'S ATTORNEY DENIED JORAN'S WITNESS STATEMENT

Karl Penhaul
NANCY GRACE
June 15, 2005


KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... The other motion was by one of the defense attorneys from the Kalpoe brothers asking for more evidence and documents to be included in the dossier against his client so that he can prepare a defense.
It`s not clear precisely what documentation the Kalpoe brother`s attorney was looking for. But certainly, he`s looking for more evidence, more facts about the evidence that the prosecutors have against his clients.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/15/ng.01.html


Karl Penhaul
NANCY GRACE
June 15, 2005


PENHAUL: ... In the evidence that has so far been put in some of the dossiers presented as evidence against the first two suspects, his (Joran) witness statement isn`t there.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/10/ng.01.html


SECURITY GUARD'S ATTORNEY DENIED JORAN'S WITNESS STATEMENT

Chris Lejuez - Security Guard Attorney
NANCY GRACE
June 9, 2005


CHRIS LEJUEZ, ATTORNEY FOR ABRAHAM JONES: Nancy, I have seen only the statements of two of the three men. The evidence that I got, the documentation, the files that I received from the prosecutor`s office contained only two of the statements.

My colleague has asked the prosecutor why only the two, not the one of the Dutch boy? She was told by the prosecutor, at least by the prosecutor`s office, that that statement would not be relevant to the case of her suspect, her client.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/09/ng.01.html


JOHN KELLY DENIED JVS WITNESS STATEMENT

John Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
February 20, 2008


KELLY:  Let me throw one more thing in on that Greta.  On May 31st, Joran was the first person interviewed by Jacobs when he's taking statements. Every police report subsequent to that, the statements made by Deepak, made by Satish, made by Beth that day, we have them all, there is no statement from Joran until June 9th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch

Maybe this is a revised statement?  One that was edited by PVDS at some point after 5/31/2005?  Maybe this version wasn't available?

I sometimes wonder if the other ALE folks were working on May 31, 2005?

Who would have been given copies of Joran's original 5/31/ statement?  Would besides Jacobs was working that day?

Did they tape this interview?

What else did Joran say that was not included in the PV (which is a summary or similar)?

Was he questioned without his father present?
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sharon
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« Reply #827 on: May 31, 2008, 01:58:28 PM »

Rumor is that Robin has invited  Rene Gielen to her site at BNH and C Rat is a mod there now  

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer?

Lie down with skunks, wake up with smelly fleas?

I no longer have it in me to give her the benefit of the doubt.

I would gladly apologize and eat my words if she were to prove me wrong.

waiting.....
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« Reply #828 on: May 31, 2008, 01:59:33 PM »

"The aforementioned girl immediately came to me took me by my hand and pulled me to the bar.  She laid down on the bar, placed a "Jell-O Shot" in her navel and told me to drink it, which I did. I had noticed that the girl was drunk. I had further together with my friends drunk a "Yard" whisky coke."

Who was this girl?  When I read this, it makes me think it wasn't Natalee, but somene else.

This was before the end of the evening.  Was there another event at some other local's only bar within C&C that did involve Natalee?

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« Reply #829 on: May 31, 2008, 02:13:03 PM »

Another reason that I believe that the recently reveal May 31, 2005 witness statement of Joran has been fabricated.

According to Paulus ... Kelly and Jacobs recorded the interrogation as it was occuring and ... then Joran signed it.  How could the Fisherman's Hut account have been missed out.

I contend the the original May 31, 2005 witness statement was destroyed (Beth) and ... another one recently fabricated to appease those who have been questioning for three years why this statement never surfaced.  Even the attorneys for the Kalpoes and the securities guards questioned why they were not privy to this  where this statement to prepare their defence.

Janet

++++++++++

Proces Verbaal (PV-statement)

I, Shanira Baldrik Kelly, officer at the Korps Police Aruba, at the Recherche district 2, state the following:

On Tuesday May 31 2005 around 11:20 I, Kelly have interrogated J.A. VAN DER SLOOT.

During the interrogation I, KELLY, have asked the witness, who was in the company of his father if they had stopped somewhere before they dropped of the girl at the hotel.

The witness VAN DER SLOOT had told me that they, in the neighborhood of the Fisherman's huts had stopped briefly.
 
I, KELLY had further asked the witness VAN DER SLOOT if they had went in the water. The witness VAN DER SLOOT answered that he and the girl only had went into the water up to their feet. During me putting the statement on paper I KELLY, have forgotten to put this in the statement.

Of which I KELLY, made under oath of duty closed and signed on Bubali May 31 2005.

SB Kelly. (signed)


++++++++++++

Paulus van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 23, 2005


We then departed for the police station in Bubali where we
arrived at approximately 11.00 hours.  Jacobs and Kelly took down Joran's statement.

Joran was speaking in Papiamentu and that was translated by the officers into Dutch. I was there when Joran made his statement.

We made a few changes in the concept with regard to factualities instead of observations.

At approximately 14.00 hours Joran signed his statement and we went to lunch in Mc Donalds or Wendy's.
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #830 on: May 31, 2008, 02:23:41 PM »


Lala's ... re Geraldo's ATM statements:

it was early june/at night
he was standing on a streetcorner
the wind was blowing his hair like crazy
he said he'd been talking to locals
who wished to remain anonymous
and he gestured over his shoulder
to another street/an alley where they'd been talking

there are posts which refer to what he said

the early posts are mostly mocking him
and some of the later posts salute his accuracy
in light of what developed as time went on:

1. ATM withdrawals
2. JvdS' lines of credit in casinos
3. JvdS drives the most tricked-out car on the island
4. underage-girl gang bang video

that was the list he stated and it's the damnedest thing
how the link to that video has disappeared

Geraldo left the island fairly soon afterward and some said:
he's a loose cannon/they pulled the plug on him ...
but in reality he left on pre-arranged leave

Marion June 17, 2005: Marion to Bermuda cruising yacht racers off to clean start.
Among the hundreds of amateur sailors in the fleet, celebrity Sir John Vereker, the Governor of Bermuda, is sailing on Babe with Dr Colin Couper and Geraldo Rivera is racing his own 70’ S&S custom Voyager, the vessel he sailed ‘round the world.
http://tinyurl.com/4ktfo8

he returned for a short time during that summer
and then left again for awhile
after his child was born aug 2, 2005

if anyone finds a link to that video/transcript  salut Cool

I found this in my notes: Tuesday, August 02, 2005
(not sure who the third/fourth posters were ...
ditto re "not supposed to mention his name")

chloe2 wrote:      
I wonder where that line of credit statement came from. I heard it a long time ago, but don't remember where.

Sooz wrote:      
Beth and Jug said it tonight in their interview with Greta. Or Beth said it, but it was just tonight.   

Yes, I heard Beth say it tonight. What I'm saying is... I've heard it before, early on in the case. I think I know what article it was in, but I can't find it yet, and we're not supposed to mention his name here.

I just remembered where I heard a couple of things talked about this week. One of the earliest Geraldo broadcasts reported that Joran was a well-known underage driver of one of the more tricked-out cars on the island & was rumored to have lines of credit at casinos. I remember thinking "daaaaamn". Never heard another word about it.

Last night/sb wrote:      
The "line of credit" thing speaks volumes about how Joran got special considerations all over that island. I simply CANNOT believe that he wasn't able to get away with driving his own car around. I mean, they let him do everything else!

Just a thought there. Maybe he DID get to drive and we don't know it.

If that's so, why would he need a chauffeur? Maybe the brothers were along for "additional assistance?"
   
writenow wrote:
SB maybe "Joran's" car was actually Deepak's. The kids at the lighthouse told Charles Croes that Deepak's car was Joran's and led him to the van der Sloot home. I didn't hear that they led him to the Kalpoe home. Maybe Joran drove Deepak's car a LOT.

The VDS ATM/financial accounts and their related record for the week or so after Natalee disappeared, what did it show?

Did anyone in ALE do the kind of questioning Geraldo did? 

Why was Joran so well known to the kids on the beach? 

Did ALE ever question the beach bums to find out what they may have seen the morning Joran left her on the beach?

If Natalee was not on the beach, but on the VDS property, is it possible that she was not dead, but in a coma?

Did anyone ask the neighbors to the VDS compound if the VDS had visitors that morning, afternoon, or evening? 

How did the younger VDS kids get to school?  Is there any evidence that they were really in class?  What did they do after school on Monday?



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« Reply #831 on: May 31, 2008, 02:25:57 PM »

Posted at BFN:

Finally there's Joran's missing statement from Tue 31st ! Since this is recorded only two days after the real event, his memory should have been the freshest. He also consciously left its content out of his book.

Few things that I found remarkable:

1. The reason why Deepak and Satish were asked about the stop at the Fisherman's huts is now clear. It was Joran who invented this answer to ensure that he had an alibi for being seen on the beach with her. A very risky lie since the brothers were interrogated shortly after Joran on the same day and there was no opportunity to contact eachother to align on this part of the story.

2. It's very strange that such a crucial part of the story (i.e. that they stopped at the FM huts) was not properly recorded and signed by Joran. This smells fishy. Such an important answer is not signed off by Joran? Did he refuse to do so after some advice of his father? Was that statement too incriminating? The first logical question for an interrogator who hears about the stop is: "did anybody see you there on the beach?" (i.e. do you have a witness to verify your story). Of course we could reason that Joran was simply trusted at that time and not yet treated as a suspect. Everyone was in early fact finding mode and assumed she could show up any moment. But still, it's pretty stupid not to ask this important question esp. since Satish and Deepak deny having stopped at the FM huts only a few hours later that day. Pretty darned inconsistent I'd say, so why wait another 9 days to arrest the boys that didn't even agree on such a crucial data point and then arrest the Security guards instead? Really beats me.

3. Joran speaks of Ruth and Natalee as being the same person. Very strange. The white wine reference at the casino also indicates it was Ruth he was talking about (Natalee has a long drink as can be clearly seen on the casino footage). The girls also hardly resemble eachother. Why would he do that? What is he trying to conceal here? Or did he simply not even care about which girl he went out with in the end. He does report that he didn't even recall Natalee's name. Just gives me the feeling he wanted to score some sex and then get to sleep. He treated girls just like a number without keeping any recollection of them.

4. Joran states that he kissed Natalee already in CnC's. He also states that Natalee acted reasonably responsible by telling her friends that she would go with him and also that she wanted her girlfriends to see the car at the junctions. Imo this is new info. As well as the statement that it actually was Joran who asked (or begged?) Natalee if he could go with her to the HI-hotel and then it was Natalee wanting to go to his house instead.

5. Again the timing of the pick up at the MacDonalds is interesting. He always claims it's around 23:00 that his father picked him up, but this is inconsistent with the VDS computer records that show Joran being active at 22:30. Again his statement about the call with Deepak suggests in Dutch that "Deepak had just arrived back (home?) from his work and was bound to take a bath" (this could explain the gap between the Internet café closing at 22:00 on Sundays and Joran calling him between 22:30 - 22:45). I still haven't given up on the theory that all computerrecords are one hour off (except the MSN dialogue) due to incorrect GMT+x settings on the VDS computer. This would move Joran's activity to 23:30 which is consistent with Deepak/Satish reporting that Joran was printing home work on his computer when they picked him up around that time.

I don't know what to think of all of this. Also Deepak firmly stating about not having stopped somewhere, esp. since he later states that they stopped at the Arashi parking lot for a pee. Why this "she fell on the ground when she left the car and I helped her back on her feet but she pushed me away". Other scenarios start to emerge again:

1. Car stops to drop off Joran and Natalee
2. Natalee steps out of the car and falls on the ground but doesn't regain consciousness.
3. The boys see that she's in a very bad shape, they panic and decide to leave her behind in the bushes in the hope someone finds her.
4. They drive off and drop Joran at his house (he's there at 1:50AM). He approaches a friend (Daury or his father) and together they drive back to the beach.
5. They find that Natalee is dead, the friend tells Joran to walk home asap and that he'll dispose of the body.
6. Joran rushes home (throws away his shoes out of fear for detection of foot-prints on the beach) and calls Deepak around 2:26 to tell him in cryptic terms what ("don't worry, it's all fixed. The ocean is big you know"). Already the HI-lie is semi agreed and that's why Freddy already was aware of it on Monday (see his statement).
7. Of course Deepak feels the heat now, since he was partially responsible for leaving her behind in a bad state. Then he pulls himself deeper into the mud. Deepak gets nervous (hence his eagerness to meet Joran the day after) and he decides to join the HI-lie. Joran further reassures him by saying that he'll take the full responsibility in case the HI-lie fails (i.e. just tell them that you dropped both of us at the beach and you two went home). And also let's keep Satish completely ignorant and out of this (which explains the eavesdropped car interview, at least one of the three doesn't have a clue what happened).

Or any other scenario that could have happened.  Sad


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« Reply #832 on: May 31, 2008, 02:26:00 PM »

Sorry when I said Charlierat was a mod I meant ADMINDTRATOR  
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Behind Every Lie is a Clue to the Truth
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« Reply #833 on: May 31, 2008, 02:27:43 PM »

Posted at BFN:

Finally there's Joran's missing statement from Tue 31st ! Since this is recorded only two days after the real event, his memory should have been the freshest. He also consciously left its content out of his book.

Few things that I found remarkable:

1. The reason why Deepak and Satish were asked about the stop at the Fisherman's huts is now clear. It was Joran who invented this answer to ensure that he had an alibi for being seen on the beach with her. A very risky lie since the brothers were interrogated shortly after Joran on the same day and there was no opportunity to contact eachother to align on this part of the story.

2. It's very strange that such a crucial part of the story (i.e. that they stopped at the FM huts) was not properly recorded and signed by Joran. This smells fishy. Such an important answer is not signed off by Joran? Did he refuse to do so after some advice of his father? Was that statement too incriminating? The first logical question for an interrogator who hears about the stop is: "did anybody see you there on the beach?" (i.e. do you have a witness to verify your story). Of course we could reason that Joran was simply trusted at that time and not yet treated as a suspect. Everyone was in early fact finding mode and assumed she could show up any moment. But still, it's pretty stupid not to ask this important question esp. since Satish and Deepak deny having stopped at the FM huts only a few hours later that day. Pretty darned inconsistent I'd say, so why wait another 9 days to arrest the boys that didn't even agree on such a crucial data point and then arrest the Security guards instead? Really beats me.

3. Joran speaks of Ruth and Natalee as being the same person. Very strange. The white wine reference at the casino also indicates it was Ruth he was talking about (Natalee has a long drink as can be clearly seen on the casino footage). The girls also hardly resemble eachother. Why would he do that? What is he trying to conceal here? Or did he simply not even care about which girl he went out with in the end. He does report that he didn't even recall Natalee's name. Just gives me the feeling he wanted to score some sex and then get to sleep. He treated girls just like a number without keeping any recollection of them.

4. Joran states that he kissed Natalee already in CnC's. He also states that Natalee acted reasonably responsible by telling her friends that she would go with him and also that she wanted her girlfriends to see the car at the junctions. Imo this is new info. As well as the statement that it actually was Joran who asked (or begged?) Natalee if he could go with her to the HI-hotel and then it was Natalee wanting to go to his house instead.

5. Again the timing of the pick up at the MacDonalds is interesting. He always claims it's around 23:00 that his father picked him up, but this is inconsistent with the VDS computer records that show Joran being active at 22:30. Again his statement about the call with Deepak suggests in Dutch that "Deepak had just arrived back (home?) from his work and was bound to take a bath" (this could explain the gap between the Internet café closing at 22:00 on Sundays and Joran calling him between 22:30 - 22:45). I still haven't given up on the theory that all computerrecords are one hour off (except the MSN dialogue) due to incorrect GMT+x settings on the VDS computer. This would move Joran's activity to 23:30 which is consistent with Deepak/Satish reporting that Joran was printing home work on his computer when they picked him up around that time.

I don't know what to think of all of this. Also Deepak firmly stating about not having stopped somewhere, esp. since he later states that they stopped at the Arashi parking lot for a pee. Why this "she fell on the ground when she left the car and I helped her back on her feet but she pushed me away". Other scenarios start to emerge again:

1. Car stops to drop off Joran and Natalee
2. Natalee steps out of the car and falls on the ground but doesn't regain consciousness.
3. The boys see that she's in a very bad shape, they panic and decide to leave her behind in the bushes in the hope someone finds her.
4. They drive off and drop Joran at his house (he's there at 1:50AM). He approaches a friend (Daury or his father) and together they drive back to the beach.
5. They find that Natalee is dead, the friend tells Joran to walk home asap and that he'll dispose of the body.
6. Joran rushes home (throws away his shoes out of fear for detection of foot-prints on the beach) and calls Deepak around 2:26 to tell him in cryptic terms what ("don't worry, it's all fixed. The ocean is big you know"). Already the HI-lie is semi agreed and that's why Freddy already was aware of it on Monday (see his statement).
7. Of course Deepak feels the heat now, since he was partially responsible for leaving her behind in a bad state. Then he pulls himself deeper into the mud. Deepak gets nervous (hence his eagerness to meet Joran the day after) and he decides to join the HI-lie. Joran further reassures him by saying that he'll take the full responsibility in case the HI-lie fails (i.e. just tell them that you dropped both of us at the beach and you two went home). And also let's keep Satish completely ignorant and out of this (which explains the eavesdropped car interview, at least one of the three doesn't have a clue what happened).

Or any other scenario that could have happened.  Sad



Followed up by this:

Just to provide you with the context from Joran's book about how the May 31st statement was produced:


(...)
Tuesday May 31st 2005

Totally exhausted, I take the bus to school. I have to take an exam and after that I’ll see the principal, mister Werner, and tell him about what happened. I ask if I could lie down in the sick bay. There I slept for a few hours. At 10:30AM my father rings the school. Police commissioner Jan van der Straaten has said that is best that I voluntarily deliver a witness statement at the police station in Bubali, since the family was creating quite some noise. My father picks me up. He quickly checks with the principal and explains him the situation. The principal fully understands that I have to miss the remainder of the day.

Maybe the police already spoke with Deepak and Satish? On our way to the police station I call Deepak; I’m pretty frightened suddenly having to leave school to make a statement to the police. When Deepak answers, I tell him: “I’ve been asked to come to the police station.” I couldn’t nor wanted to say much more, since my dad was sitting besides me. Deepak says: “Stick to our story, the police has also phoned Satish and me and asked us to come. Satish and I will go to the police station after my work.”
I’m pretty terrified and it all starts to become very serious now, but anyway, we had decided to stick to our story.

When my father and I walk into the police station, an officer asks us to sit down and wait. After approx. 10 minutes Jan van der Straten arrives. My father asks: “can I be there as well? As a matter of fact he is under aged.” That shocked me. I didn’t expect my father to ask that. The fact that he was there as well, only made it more difficult for me to tell the truth after all. When I’d only have been with the police in that interrogation room and they had told me: “This doesn’t make sense, young man,” then I had, I think, told them the truth. However my father is there as well; I’ve already lied to him, I’ve lied to all my girlfriend and mates. When I now tell the truth I’m not only having problems with the police. Also my parents would be extremely upset, not only because I left a girl behind on the beach, but also that I had lied about it. Then I’d totally lose their trust which I had already damaged. So I continue to lie. I thought: “if the three of us all say the same, they must believe us.” The police commissioner is against the idea, however since I’m under age, he can’t bring up much against it.

In the interrogation room there’s a chair for me and one for Van der Straaten but not for my dad. That is being brought. Jan van der Straten returns with a chair and he is followed by officer Jacobs. They are sitting opposite to me behind a simple table and ask me to explain them what exactly happened that night. I talk and they listen without asking many questions. During my interrogation I ring Deepak with my cell phone to ask him which clothes Natalee was wearing, since I didn’t know it for sure anymore. He still remembers: it was a blue top and short blue skirt. I then tell them the lied story, that we had dropped her off at the Holiday Inn. The whole thing lasts approx. 20 minutes. Then Van der Straaten says that he has to put the story in writing. Jacobs switches on the computer and starts recording my story, when I tell it for the second time. After a lot of messing around with the computer, Jacobs, who types very slowly, finally gets the story out. He prints my statement, I read it carefully and make some minor corrections.

My father insists that everything is being recorded exactly as I said it, without the police officers making their own summary. Of course my dad had good intentions, since he simply believed me; he knows as a professional jurist, that a statement not always ends up on paper as the suspect of witness wants. He just wanted that everything matched with what I had told.

It’s already around 16:00 when I sign my first statement and my father and I leave the interrogation room. On my way out I see Deepak in the waiting area. I say hello to him and ask him to call me when he’s finished. My head is spinning. I’ve made a false witness statement to the police. I hadn’t even considered ever going to police. We leave the building and I hope that Deepak and Satish will tell the same story. I start to get very nervous from the idea that maybe something terrible had happened to Natalee. However I do have the feeling that the police bought our story. They have no reason not to believe us, I tell my father that I’m hungry and we stop for a bite at the Taco Bell in Noord. After we finished eating we drive straight home. When I’m home I sit on my bed and ponder for a while. Many things flash through my head. I’m very frightened because we’ve lied, however I now really believe that there no way back.   
 
I tell my dad that I want to go to Freddy to talk about the whole situation. Freddy practically lives besides me and he’s one of my best friends. When I arrived there I first talk a little while with his sister, because Freddy hasn’t come home yet from school. After 10 minutes Freddy arrives. I tell him I need to talk to him and we go to his room. I tell him first what really happened: that I left the girl alone on the beach. After that I tell him that Deepak, Satish and I have been at the police station and that we’ve all made false statements. I explain to him that, when my father called me with the message that the parents of a missing girl where at our door step, I completely flipped and that Deepak and I then decided to lie. Freddy is quiet for a moment.: “I think I understand it a little”, he then says. I feel só relieved that I can speak at least with someone about this. I know I can trust Freddy, however I’m most relieved by the fact that he could understand why I had lied. “Can you keep this secret?” I ask Freddy. “When somebody asks you something, just tell them that I have told you that we dropped off Natalee at the Holidays Inn, since we’ve now already lied to the police and I really don’t want any problems. Freddy says: “No problem. You know you can trust me?” I don’t tell Freddy anything else and say, somewhat relieved, goodbye to him and his family and go home.
(...)
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« Reply #834 on: May 31, 2008, 02:28:07 PM »

Another reason that I believe that the recently reveal May 31, 2005 witness statement of Joran has been fabricated.

According to Paulus ... Kelly and Jacobs recorded the interrogation as it was occuring and ... then Joran signed it.  How could the Fisherman's Hut account have been missed out.

I contend the the original May 31, 2005 witness statement was destroyed (Beth) and ... another one recently fabricated to appease those who have been questioning for three years why this statement never surfaced.  Even the attorneys for the Kalpoes and the securities guards questioned why they were not privy to this  where this statement to prepare their defence.

Janet

++++++++++

Proces Verbaal (PV-statement)

I, Shanira Baldrik Kelly, officer at the Korps Police Aruba, at the Recherche district 2, state the following:

On Tuesday May 31 2005 around 11:20 I, Kelly have interrogated J.A. VAN DER SLOOT.

During the interrogation I, KELLY, have asked the witness, who was in the company of his father if they had stopped somewhere before they dropped of the girl at the hotel.

The witness VAN DER SLOOT had told me that they, in the neighborhood of the Fisherman's huts had stopped briefly.
 
I, KELLY had further asked the witness VAN DER SLOOT if they had went in the water. The witness VAN DER SLOOT answered that he and the girl only had went into the water up to their feet. During me putting the statement on paper I KELLY, have forgotten to put this in the statement.

Of which I KELLY, made under oath of duty closed and signed on Bubali May 31 2005.

SB Kelly. (signed)


++++++++++++

Paulus van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 23, 2005


We then departed for the police station in Bubali where we
arrived at approximately 11.00 hours.  Jacobs and Kelly took down Joran's statement.

Joran was speaking in Papiamentu and that was translated by the officers into Dutch. I was there when Joran made his statement.

We made a few changes in the concept with regard to factualities instead of observations.

At approximately 14.00 hours Joran signed his statement and we went to lunch in Mc Donalds or Wendy's.


Was Joran's original statement in Papi?  The one in Dutch was a version of that, edited by his father?

What did the Papi version have to say?

Do the Aruban's save the original PVs?  Prior to translation?
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« Reply #835 on: May 31, 2008, 02:37:03 PM »

Sorry,That person sacrificed a goat (Cabrito)and not a pig 

look closer not just goat parts,human too

I'M not sure what else is in there..But I looked closer at that article and it was a witch practicing bruheria.
-------------------------------
White magic and black magic exist in many forms, locally called "bruheria"(witchcraft), and include voodoo doctors, santeria priests, white magic and black magic practitioners. Because the practice of witchcraft is not tolerated in Aruba (due to the strong influence of the Catholic Church), good and evil spells, exorcisms, and other services of sorcery are hard to come by.

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/backissues/newsletter18.html
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« Reply #836 on: May 31, 2008, 02:46:53 PM »

fierljepper forgot to consider Deepak's email/im to John Croes (to throw off the investigation) & the text of that message in his list of thoughts. 
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« Reply #837 on: May 31, 2008, 02:51:48 PM »

fierljepper forgot to consider Deepak's email/im to John Croes (to throw off the investigation) & the text of that message in his list of thoughts. 

Good point 2NJ
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« Reply #838 on: May 31, 2008, 02:56:19 PM »

Interesting that this happened on Natalee's 3rd anniversary of being missing. Someone hire a witch to do this? Why on this day in this cemetary?



(Papi Translation)run through portuguese trans..

   
Sorcery(witchcraft) of sacrafice for some insane yesterday

first 12 or bottom of afternoon, police autoridadnan is seravisa, fast bottom of door of cemetery at paradera have one complete deken of blood, and apparently have to have something of curpa lora in dje. cu results owing to one or more goats, cu owing to stay swing, that kill, door for practicing sorcery. already near of the pananan here, also achieve the candle, and another obhetonan stano. is as we of awemainta owing to being informed, is practiced by sorcery, pa cu person is believe in this, of is practiced of one or another sixth, cu lately is very much bão of we own hobennan.serlimar owing to the quest for being warns cadavernan here and bentanan afo.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 03:32:43 PM by Observer » Logged

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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #839 on: May 31, 2008, 03:13:42 PM »

Destiny,

Just wondering if your contact in Aruba would mail you a hard copy of the article...of course a PO Box would be good, but most don't have one....just thinking....

They left for vacation today...for one week...won't be back 'till Monday after next...If there is an Aruban Monkey to mail one...I do have a P.O. box in another town nearby....or if they can scan it for here would be great too!



I think it was Texasmom who said they had a contact in Aruba that would look for it.

TY Klaas

Yes, I did get a response that it would be copied for us; but I haven't received it yet. 
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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