Natalee Case Discussion #755 5/31 - 6/5/08

[WhiskeyGirl]

Whiskey Girl
I assure you that is a very recent photo.

TY.  I wonder how many years of stuff is buried under all that debris.  How much has gone down hill, and what is at the bottom of the hill.  Was this part of the search area with dogs? 

[SunnyinTX]

Aruba must not have a fine for littering.....lots of it there....it's $500.00 here if you get caught.....

Once one gets away from the tourits area Aruba is just another dirty little island....trash thrown all over, the yards look like mini dumps, skinny dogs foraging through the trash looking for something to eat....we went to a grocery store and bought 2 large bags of dogs food after seeing one Momma dog with about 6 little puppies....she was soooooo thin and was digging in the garbage....broke out hearts ...we took the food back to where we saw her and put a whole lot out on the ground.....and did the same in some other areas...it was really disgusting ......this was about 7 years ago...the one and only time we were there

[LoRain]

Yeah...one of the reasons I wouldn't want to visit the island....but would go if I had a chance just to see what I might find.....

[Lala'sMom]

Whiskey Girl
I assure you that is a very recent photo.

TY.  I wonder how many years of stuff is buried under all that debris.  How much has gone down hill, and what is at the bottom of the hill.  Was this part of the search area with dogs? 

That area is a drained pond...the pond located at Nationals Park where the soccer fields are located in Aruba in the Monserat area. 

[caesu]

One judicial organization Aruba, Antilles, and the Netherlands

The Administration of Justice Council in The Hague will probably have an important role in the new judicial organization for the Kingdom.

ORANJESTAD – It is almost certain that there will be one organization for the judiciary within the Kingdom, says Justice-minister Rudy Croes yesterday after he had reached an agreement with his Antillean and Dutch colleagues on a consensus statutory law in which rules are laid down for the judiciary.  The Administration of Justice Council will be allotted an important role in this.   

The minister calls the agreement a breakthrough.  The negotiations between the three countries about the organization of the judiciary and the legal system have been going extremely difficult for quite some time already.   Due to the conflict with the Netherlands about the assets of Plant NV, Aruba never wanted to be actively involved in the project group administration of justice, legal formation, and constitutional affairs. The negotiations on the future organization of the system of justice are prepared in this official working group.

Aruba was also not satisfied with the organization of the conversations, in which especially the Netherlands (read: state secretary Ank Bijleveld of Kingdom Relations) aimed for coming to a Caribbean Court, also regulated in a statutory law.  Aruba indicated in November that she is still against that and prefers to adjust the existing Cooperation-regulation, in which the Joint Court is regulated.

The current big turnaround is according to Croes, because they are now ‘equally’ tagging along with each other.  “No separate treatment is imposed for the Caribbean, but an organization on equal level for the judiciary within the entire Kingdom, thus also for the Netherlands.  This is the only way to come to a good judicial organization.” 

Besides, Aruba’s plan is not new.  The government has already presented it earlier in a letter to the Dutch and Antillean governments.  Prime Minister Nelson Oduber has again sent a letter with the proposal in January of this year.  This time her sent it to the government for the Kingdom and separately to each of the governing bodies in the Neth.Antilles, but there was no reaction again.  Minister Croes has then contacted the ministers of Justice Ernst Hirsch Ballin (the Netherlands) and David Dick (Antilles).  Meanwhile, some members of the Supreme Court and the Administration of Justice Council in the Netherlands have already reacted positive on the plan.  Minister Hirsch Ballin told minister Croes that he will get in contact with the Administration of Justice Council.

ADVISORY BOARD

The Kingdom’s broad organization for the judiciary will be laid down in a so-called consensus law, based on article 38 of the Charter for the Kingdom of the Netherlands, which states that the three countries can mutually make arrangements, among others laid down per statutory law.  Croes indicated that this construction will possibly be also used to come to one procedural law for the civil rights, criminal justice, as well as administrative law and same for the General Administrative Law.   

Besides, our country would like it very much that the concordance principles for the most important law books, like the Criminal Code and the Code of Criminal Procedure are laid down in the statutory law.

Croes says that a new Kingdom working group is going to be set up to give new meaning to the new statutory laws.  According to the minister, they must also start going into a better cooperation within the Kingdom with the implementation of international treaties.  Until now, it is the Netherlands that signs the treaties and then leaves it up to the islands to implement these in the local legislation, said Croes. 

NEW INTERIM PG

After the news got out that the temporary appointment of Dato Steenhuis, former PG in the Netherlands, was dropped, Aruba and the Netherlands have reached an agreement again on a new interim procurator general (PG).  Minister Croes doesn’t want to say more on this matter, other than ‘it’s going to be an Aruba citizen’ that will be appointed for the period of six months. The interim-PG replaces Theresa Croes Fernandes.  Attorney General Nico Jörg, who leaves for the Supreme Court in the Netherlands per July 1, has been doing her job since last year.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

my comments:

a bit of strange article.
it doesn't really explain what the 'new judicial organisation' entails.

aruba has its own OM and court. the higher court is shared with the Antilles.
and the supreme court is in The Hague.

but what this organisation is? it doesn't really say.
Croes always opposed to have the OM shared with the Antilles, just like the higher court.
Croes even wanted his own higher court on Aruba.

i bet if Hirsch Ballin hears what Croes is talking about he is going to say something different.
and then Croes has to backtrack or something.

it most likely has something to do with the dissolution of the Antilles in two countries and three special municipalities next  year.

also note that Croes has a 'Aruban citizen' in mind for the procureur general job.
but why for six months?
the earlier proposed PG would have the job only for six months because in december he would became 65 - the age limit for PG on Aruba.
so either Croes is confused or he is looking for someone who will be 65 in december???
or he expect a solution for the pension/salary dispute with Croes Fernandez-Pedra by then...

of course i keep following this.

[San]

{EDITED}



SunnyinTX
Scared Monkey

 Online

Posts: 362

hi Jack....I am not disputing you as you say this with such confidence. I admit I am still not caught up with all the posts from the last 6 weeks..however I really do not think this is JVD's shoe...but an evil, cruel joke. If you have information otherwise please share it with us.


SunnyinTX 
This is the picture that we are on now looks like mud on Joran's shoe this was taken before I believe Natalee

thanks Blonde...yes once it is enlargened it does look like it could be mud...and I do believe it was taken before Natalee.....and it is strange IMO footwear to be wearing to a club

It is the kind of footwear you would wear if you have a dirty plan in place.  Like kidnap/Rape and leave a girl on the beach.  So why wear your good sneakers when you know you are going on the dirty beach or dirty place he is going to leave the girl.  The outfit and shoes are the same clothes he wears when he is going to target his victim.  JMO.

[Lala'sMom]

Calling Destiny!! Calling Destiny!! 

I have one confirmation that the ad DID run in the Diario on Friday...my other contact did not see the paper that day so no confirmation there.  My one affirmative is very reliable though. 

[caesu]

High salaries OM no problem

Premier Oduber does not have a problem with the fact that the members of the Public Prosecutor earn more money than the prime-minister.

ORANJESTAD – Premier Nelson Oduber has no problem with the fact that members of the Public Prosecutor (OM) earn more money than the prime-minister.  With this, he goes against the advise of Justice-minister Rudy Croes, who says that he basis his handling on the current legal regulations.

Oduber says that Croes appeals to an advice of the Legislation Administration and Judicial Affairs, which states that the Justice-minister ‘can personally be legally held liable’.  “I told him, do you really think that the OM will institute legal proceedings against their own salaries?  If that’s the case, I will indeed want to be criminally prosecuted later if necessary.  I don’t have any problem with that.  The advice of the Legislation Administration is more paper and paper is patient and judicial, but the reality has taught us that these people have always received a good salary.”

We ought to make new arrangements for the salaries of the OMs of Aruba, Curacao, St. Maarten, and the BES-islands later, said Oduber, who explains that the salaries were never well –arranged since 1986.  The PG and other employees of the OM have all that time earned more money than the prime-minister.  It doesn’t matter whether these high salaries were perhaps settled illegally or against the rules.  “If that’s the case, we were part of it.  It’s going to be very difficult to change that now”, says the premier referring to the three applicants for the function of district attorney that were first hired in a higher salary scale than they apportioned later.  Oduber regrets the fact that the three did no longer want the job afterwards.  Also the publicity and the media-attention for the lawsuit against PG Theresa Croes Fernandes, is tedium for the premier.  He hopes to solve the problem in a creative manner.   

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

another very strange article.

in other article Oduber says he can't remember saying that nobody on the island can earn more than he does.
http://antilliaans.caribiana.nl/aruba/car2008-05-31_oduber
Rudy Croes used to say that.

from the surface it seems like Oduber and Croes are arguing with eachother.
but i doubt that.
i think it is all some political game related to the PG problems and the future of the Aruban OM and court.
lately there have been many negative articles about the Aruban OM, especially in Diario.

[Lala'sMom]

Thanks for the info Caesu...you seem to find such interesting things about the people in charge on Aruba.  I am thinking it's a cat fight between those two often.

[LoRain]

Yeah...one of the reasons I wouldn't want to visit the island....but would go if I had a chance just to see what I might find.....

My appologies for saying I wouldn't go to Aruba because of garbage....that's a silly thing for me to say as there is garbage everyone on this earth....I should remember to look at the beauty and purity of the world instead of negative things...I know that there are beautiful areas in Aruba....good and bad everywhere one goes.....it's just perhaps what a person wants to dwell on....I know here in the U.S. there are pretty places as well as dirty...so I will try to dwell on the positive....and one positive is that this case....eventually will be solved....

[Destiny]

It also looks like the initials TV are scratched into it upside down, as if it was done with the person's leg crossed.

...on the back panel.

Could it be VAL spelledwith some of the lettering missing?  Pic flipped and/or mirrored?

Could it be JV?

Same thought here...

[San]

Yeah...one of the reasons I wouldn't want to visit the island....but would go if I had a chance just to see what I might find.....

My appologies for saying I wouldn't go to Aruba because of garbage....that's a silly thing for me to say as there is garbage everyone on this earth....I should remember to look at the beauty and purity of the world instead of negative things...I know that there are beautiful areas in Aruba....good and bad everywhere one goes.....it's just perhaps what a person wants to dwell on....I know here in the U.S. there are pretty places as well as dirty...so I will try to dwell on the positive....and one positive is that this case....eventually will be solved....

I agree that this case will eventually be solved.

You couldn't pay me to go to Aruba.  From what I have seen it is a place I have no desire to ever go to.  JMO

[Destiny]

Calling Destiny!! Calling Destiny!! 

I have one confirmation that the ad DID run in the Diario on Friday...my other contact did not see the paper that day so no confirmation there.  My one affirmative is very reliable though. 

Thank You Lalas...your contact is good enough for me!

[Destiny]

Thanks for the info Caesu...you seem to find such interesting things about the people in charge on Aruba.  I am thinking it's a cat fight between those two often.

More like a power struggle over who gets a bigger piece of the money laundering pie...

[klaasend]

Posted at BFN:

Why would Joran tell Deepak that he was walking home barefoot already in the 2:26 call? Deepak couldn't see that. If Joran disposed off the body with Daury and threw away his shoes in one of these sewing pipes, why would he tell this detail to Deepak who is completely innocent in that scenario? It doesn't make sense and I can see only one logical scenario. It was a slip of the tongue caused by stress. Immediatley after that he realised that he locked himself into the shoe story and Deepak would sooner or later mention it during the interrogations. Therefore he needed to bring up the "I left them on the beach" story as an alternative lie to defend himself. He was so well prepared for this that he brought the story pro-actively.

We can also be pretty sure that Joran never left his shoes (and Natalees) on the beach, since if anybody would have found them during the HI-drop off lie, that would look pretty stupid.

I therefore believe that the real reason Joran has thrown away his shoes was out of fear for footprints in the sand. To make his story even stronger he lied about the sizes in case someone wanted to try whether the measured footprint would fit Cinderjoran's foot...

[San]

Thanks for the info Caesu...you seem to find such interesting things about the people in charge on Aruba.  I am thinking it's a cat fight between those two often.

More like a power struggle over who gets a bigger piece of the money laundering pie...

I agree.

[LoRain]

JV=Joran V....?

[klaasend]

JV=Joran V....?

Personally, I doubt Joran would use/carve the initials JV.  If he were carving initials my guess would be he'd use JS for Joran Sloot and not JV.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Posted at BFN:

Why would Joran tell Deepak that he was walking home barefoot already in the 2:26 call? Deepak couldn't see that. If Joran disposed off the body with Daury and threw away his shoes in one of these sewing pipes, why would he tell this detail to Deepak who is completely innocent in that scenario? It doesn't make sense and I can see only one logical scenario. It was a slip of the tongue caused by stress. Immediatley after that he realised that he locked himself into the shoe story and Deepak would sooner or later mention it during the interrogations. Therefore he needed to bring up the "I left them on the beach" story as an alternative lie to defend himself. He was so well prepared for this that he brought the story pro-actively.

We can also be pretty sure that Joran never left his shoes (and Natalees) on the beach, since if anybody would have found them during the HI-drop off lie, that would look pretty stupid.

I therefore believe that the real reason Joran has thrown away his shoes was out of fear for footprints in the sand. To make his story even stronger he lied about the sizes in case someone wanted to try whether the measured footprint would fit Cinderjoran's foot...

Joran may have thrown away his shoes, but I doubt out of fear for footprints in the sand....I'm still fixated on Deepak's IM to John Croes (if true)....was it to make Natalee look bad, or was it something else?  Can't see that it was to protect Satish and why give a statement saying you were trying to throw the investigation off????  WTH?

[Bearlyhere]

JV=Joran V....?

Personally, I doubt Joran would use/carve the initials JV.  If he were carving initials my guess would be he'd use JS for Joran Sloot and not JV.

I agree.