Natalee Case Discussion #755 5/31 - 6/5/08

[San]

Daury and his family are going to be sleeping with the fishes 

 

They need to GO SEE DE SHARKS, San.

I'm heart-sick over this. The Van der sloots are awful.

Couldn't happen to a better person.  May they all go the way of the fishes.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Daury and his family are going to be sleeping with the fishes 

 

They need to GO SEE DE SHARKS, San.

I'm heart-sick over this. The Van der sloots are awful.

~ from the VF article ~

Wednesday morning, as Beth gave her statement to police, Renfro and Munzenhofer met in the Holiday Inn's lobby to organize the first search teams. After a series of radio announcements, a hundred tourists showed up, along with a smattering of Arubans and policemen. Jan van der Straaten, the crusty Dutch police superintendent who would end up working the case, was not happy. "Van der Straaten walks up and tells me, 'You can't do this,'" Renfro recalls. "I said, 'Yes I can. I'm going to find this girl.' He told me she wasn't even considered 'missing' for 48 hours. In fact, he told me just to go to Ladies' Night at Carlos 'n Charlie's that night, that she would probably show up there. Anyway, he talked to the group. And his message was, he asked us not to cause any traffic problems. I just wanted to fall out of my pants I was so mad."

How does one qualify as missing?  If you aren't considered missing, will anyone look for you?

I sometimes think that even if Natalee (or her bones) had washed up on the beach Monday morning, she would never be considered missing or dead.

No body/No case/No corpse/No lie

[Destiny]

KLAAS...got your email....I'll work with all that is in that....I'll send you my *final* to check over for me...before I send it...is that OK?...TIA

Good Monkeys...Thanks Again for going the *extra* mile...hope I can post something tomorrow...to make it all worth while....Lubs Ja's All!!!....We Stand with the Girl...

Destiny...

[carpe noctem]

Night, Des!

[klaasend]

KLAAS...got your email....I'll work with all that is in that....I'll send you my *final* to check over for me...before I send it...is that OK?...TIA

Good Monkeys...Thanks Again for going the *extra* mile...hope I can post something tomorrow...to make it all worth while....Lubs Ja's All!!!....We Stand with the Girl...

Destiny...

I don't think you need to send to me, I'm sure it will be fine without me checking it.  What I'm trying to say is don't wait on me to send it if you don't hear right back from me.

[Destiny]

Night, Des!

I'm not going to sleepies Carpe...got a lot of work to do tonight...but...if You are putting on your jammies...then...Sweet Dreams to you

[Destiny]

KLAAS...got your email....I'll work with all that is in that....I'll send you my *final* to check over for me...before I send it...is that OK?...TIA

Good Monkeys...Thanks Again for going the *extra* mile...hope I can post something tomorrow...to make it all worth while....Lubs Ja's All!!!....We Stand with the Girl...

Destiny...

I don't think you need to send to me, I'm sure it will be fine without me checking it.  What I'm trying to say is don't wait on me to send it if you don't hear right back from me.

Gotcha...I'll just pretend I'm on the phone...LOL!!!

I'll do fine...based on conversation today...when we talk again tomorrow...I can walk them through anything in the letter if I need to...Thanks Again...

[wreck]

After a series of radio announcements, a hundred tourists showed up, along with a smattering of Arubans and policemen. Jan van der Straaten, the crusty Dutch police superintendent who would end up working the case, was not happy.

Another example of why there is a boycott. There has never been more than a "smattering" of locals who gave a damn.

[Buckeye]

Here is the transcript from TiVo between Greta and Beth about the blood in the shoe.

Greta: One of the other things brought up in the article is that JVDS shoes have never been found. First of all do you kow anything about the shoes? Any particular significance to why they're looking for the shoes?

Beth: You know Greta now that you mention it I was looking through my journal and there was an update from an FBI official and also from our family liaison that in one of JVDS tennis shoes there was blood in his tennis shoe. I had written that down. I wish that I had been able to obtain more information as to what happened to that one shoe if that was truly blood in his shoe. You know Greta like I said we are just so limited in any type of information we can get.

Greta: Are you suggesting that they did find 1 of the pair of shoes and that they seized that?

Beth: Yes, when I was looking back through my notes there was a date where we received this information either from the FBI or our family liaison that there was blood in Joran's tennis shoe.

Greta: I suppose, of course if there is blood you would be out of your mind not to test the blood to see if it's JVDS blood or not. Do you know if they any testing was done on that shoe?

Beth: No, we don't know we never heard the results of any DNA, if we did hear it was 2 1/2 months later but we never heard anything definitive about the shoe.

Greta: I take it if you heard it was his blood then you would have recalled you got the final results. And let me see if I got this straight you can't recall getting any results on the blood in that shoe if indeed it was blood in the shoe?

Beth: No, it was only mentioned 1 time throughout my journal. Only once.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33190&page=2


I remember Jossy saying the same thing.   

[Silverfox]

Ok, I will ask again....

Maybe someone responded when I asked before and I missed it?

Remember the assistant lady prosecutor who was at odds with her boss in the very beginning of the case?  You know?  The one who later wrote a letter tht she was actually in Holland during those fateful 9 days at the beginning of the case but was getting blamed for mishandling?

I don't know if anyone has that copy of the letter again, but did she not refer to VIDEO TAPES of the interrogations? 

WHERE ARE THOSE VIDEO TAPES?

Is it possible that the original Joran interview was VIDEO TAPED?

Or has my memory faded on this subject???

[klaasend]

Ok, I will ask again....

Maybe someone responded when I asked before and I missed it?

Remember the assistant lady prosecutor who was at odds with her boss in the very beginning of the case?  You know?  The one who later wrote a letter tht she was actually in Holland during those fateful 9 days at the beginning of the case but was getting blamed for mishandling?

I don't know if anyone has that copy of the letter again, but did she not refer to VIDEO TAPES of the interrogations? 

WHERE ARE THOSE VIDEO TAPES?

Is it possible that the original Joran interview was VIDEO TAPED?

Or has my memory faded on this subject???

I do remember and I don't think we know where those video tapes are or if they even exist.  That original interview may have been video taped and that tape may have been destroyed by now.  Who knows?

[Destiny]

Here is the transcript from TiVo between Greta and Beth about the blood in the shoe.

Greta: One of the other things brought up in the article is that JVDS shoes have never been found. First of all do you kow anything about the shoes? Any particular significance to why they're looking for the shoes?

Beth: You know Greta now that you mention it I was looking through my journal and there was an update from an FBI official and also from our family liaison that in one of JVDS tennis shoes there was blood in his tennis shoe. I had written that down. I wish that I had been able to obtain more information as to what happened to that one shoe if that was truly blood in his shoe. You know Greta like I said we are just so limited in any type of information we can get.

Greta: Are you suggesting that they did find 1 of the pair of shoes and that they seized that?

Beth: Yes, when I was looking back through my notes there was a date where we received this information either from the FBI or our family liaison that there was blood in Joran's tennis shoe.

Greta: I suppose, of course if there is blood you would be out of your mind not to test the blood to see if it's JVDS blood or not. Do you know if they any testing was done on that shoe?

Beth: No, we don't know we never heard the results of any DNA, if we did hear it was 2 1/2 months later but we never heard anything definitive about the shoe.

Greta: I take it if you heard it was his blood then you would have recalled you got the final results. And let me see if I got this straight you can't recall getting any results on the blood in that shoe if indeed it was blood in the shoe?

Beth: No, it was only mentioned 1 time throughout my journal. Only once.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33190&page=2


I remember Jossy saying the same thing.   

TY Buck.. will use...

[Buckeye]

Ok, I will ask again....

Maybe someone responded when I asked before and I missed it?

Remember the assistant lady prosecutor who was at odds with her boss in the very beginning of the case?  You know?  The one who later wrote a letter tht she was actually in Holland during those fateful 9 days at the beginning of the case but was getting blamed for mishandling?

I don't know if anyone has that copy of the letter again, but did she not refer to VIDEO TAPES of the interrogations? 

WHERE ARE THOSE VIDEO TAPES?

Is it possible that the original Joran interview was VIDEO TAPED?

Or has my memory faded on this subject???

She actually was and is the current AG (but sort of on strike).  The letter said that they delayed arresting the three boys because KJ said their interviews had to be taped and the equipment had to come from the Netherlands.  She didn't know why that had to happen.  They never did it before.  I doubt if the original was videotaped, but from Joran's description, it does sound like it was recorded and then typed up...to get it accurate.  I'm sure the original has a few "breaks in the tape".   

[Silverfox]

Ok, I will ask again....

Maybe someone responded when I asked before and I missed it?

Remember the assistant lady prosecutor who was at odds with her boss in the very beginning of the case?  You know?  The one who later wrote a letter tht she was actually in Holland during those fateful 9 days at the beginning of the case but was getting blamed for mishandling?

I don't know if anyone has that copy of the letter again, but did she not refer to VIDEO TAPES of the interrogations? 

WHERE ARE THOSE VIDEO TAPES?

Is it possible that the original Joran interview was VIDEO TAPED?

Or has my memory faded on this subject???

I do remember and I don't think we know where those video tapes are or if they even exist.  That original interview may have been video taped and that tape may have been destroyed by now.  Who knows?

We never did hear an official response to that letter, correct? 

It wold seem to me that the silence is deafening.

Remember the erasure from Nixon's Whitehouse tapes.

If, indeed, there is a procedure for videotaping of suspects during the early stages of this case then someone should be making some radical queries as to status and disposition of those tapes -- any missing tapes and times not accounted for should have obstruction of justice charges brought and the investigation should intensify on any and all personages who had access and review privs to those tapes.

It would seem to me there should be an outrage and major investigative focus on those tapes as they contain probably many of the answers everyone, including the legitimate prosecutors, seeks to put this case at risk.

I remember some reference as to the prosecutors office thought the interrogators might have been too aggressive in the beginning so thus the statements might be disallowed under the court's rules... Says who?  Someone who reviewed the tapes? 

Perhaps this should be a heavy question for Jossy tonight -- remember, it was the News Media who broke the stories about the Nixon erasures and pressed the issue until an investigation took place...Jossy is in a position to take this all the way...IMHO

[klaasend]

Ok, I will ask again....

Maybe someone responded when I asked before and I missed it?

Remember the assistant lady prosecutor who was at odds with her boss in the very beginning of the case?  You know?  The one who later wrote a letter tht she was actually in Holland during those fateful 9 days at the beginning of the case but was getting blamed for mishandling?

I don't know if anyone has that copy of the letter again, but did she not refer to VIDEO TAPES of the interrogations? 

WHERE ARE THOSE VIDEO TAPES?

Is it possible that the original Joran interview was VIDEO TAPED?

Or has my memory faded on this subject???

I do remember and I don't think we know where those video tapes are or if they even exist.  That original interview may have been video taped and that tape may have been destroyed by now.  Who knows?

We never did hear an official response to that letter, correct? 

It wold seem to me that the silence is deafening.

Remember the erasure from Nixon's Whitehouse tapes.

If, indeed, there is a procedure for videotaping of suspects during the early stages of this case then someone should be making some radical queries as to status and disposition of those tapes -- any missing tapes and times not accounted for should have obstruction of justice charges brought and the investigation should intensify on any and all personages who had access and review privs to those tapes.

It would seem to me there should be an outrage and major investigative focus on those tapes as they contain probably many of the answers everyone, including the legitimate prosecutors, seeks to put this case at risk.

I remember some reference as to the prosecutors office thought the interrogators might have been too aggressive in the beginning so thus the statements might be disallowed under the court's rules... Says who?  Someone who reviewed the tapes? 

Perhaps this should be a heavy question for Jossy tonight -- remember, it was the News Media who broke the stories about the Nixon erasures and pressed the issue until an investigation took place...Jossy is in a position to take this all the way...IMHO

Good idea about asking Jossy about it.  Why don't you email Dana Pretzer and suggest he ask Jossy about the video tapes?

dana@scaredmonkeys.com

[Destiny]

Daury and his family are going to be sleeping with the fishes 

 

They need to GO SEE DE SHARKS, San.

I'm heart-sick over this. The Van der sloots are awful.

Couldn't happen to a better person.  May they all go the way of the fishes.

Betcha Daury rues the day he ever met Urine...if not for Urine...Daury might have continued to fly under the *radar*...

[Destiny]

Just wondering...was there a correlation between the time of Daury's arrest...and Joran going into hiding...or psych unit/Thailand...the moon...wherever....

Destiny

[Helen Back]

Just wondering...was there a correlation between the time of Daury's arrest...and Joran going into hiding...or psych unit/Thailand...the moon...wherever....

Destiny

You read my mind.....I have been wondering the same thing.  And wondering, what catapulted Joran into hiding?  The Peter DeVries tapes, the first mention of Daury, then Daury's arrest.....

Hopefully the whole charade is beginning to fall apart.  Someone will start squawkin'.

[bleachedblack]

Flashback: The Missing Sneaker/Sneakers.....

Natalee Holloway Update: Missing Shoe
I've been informed that at a press conference today investigators have asked anyone that may have information as regards a sneaker - K-SWISS (White and Blue) size 14 possibly seen or found near the Marriott or the Fisherman's Hut area to please contact the Police.
Earlier reports have suggested that a search at the home of Joran Va der Sloot turned up a shoe which may have been covered with mud, or muck. The shoe had no match. The last bit of information hasn't been independently confirmed.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/natalee_hollowa_91.html


Well, at least not until they find the missing shoe. That's right. Joran van der Sloot lost a sneaker somewhere on the island. Expect now a grand search for it, as well as for Natalee. This is beginning to sound like Cinderella, no? No! It's OJ all over again! And here comes the story of the toothbrush

http://tinyurl.com/3vyjqk

The dates on these quotes refer to dates 2005
http://members.aol.com/WorldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

LACLE reported on 7-26 that at about 6:30 PM, six or seven ARUBAN firefighters were ordered by the ARUBAN police to start draining a large pond that is very close (a couple 100 yard) just north of the “Marriott Hotel” and very close to the spot where the gardener witness stated he saw the 3 Main Suspects at 2:30 AM to 3:00 AM on 5-30. It could take at least 24 hours and as long as a week to drain the pond using filtered pumps operating at 3000 gallons per minute. The pond is estimated to be 700’ long and 400’ wide. Speculation is because of the high suction power of the 8” hoses being used that authorities are looking for other physical evidence--perhaps someone’s clothing and/or shoe(s) and/or flip-flops-- but are not looking for a body that could be severely compromised if caught in a filter by the high pressure pump.
 
On 7-31 J. MANSUR said that the police are looking for a size 14, brand “K-Swiss,” expensive tennis shoe that Principal Suspect J. SLOOT was missing, and had tried to buy a single same tennis shoe of in the 10+ days before his arrest. The police think the tennis shoe may be in/near the pond.


On 8-1 the ARUBA government made a plea to the public to look for a pair of tennis sneakers owned by Principal Suspect J. SLOOT. The pair of tennis sneakers are the “K-Swiss” brand, size 14, they are predominantly white with some blue trim. It was reported that “in one of his many statements” Principal Suspect J. SLOOT “said he might have lost the shoes the night Natalee disappeared.

On 9-8 “Bondia” reported about the 9-3 digging at the pond near the “Marriott Hotel,” “At around 7.30 in the morning, firemen started to drain the water in a pond north of the Marriott, next to the fishermen’s huts. This was done at the request of Jansen, who heads the team investigating the case of Natalee Holloway. The reason why they decided to conduct a rigorous search was because this is the last place that suspect Joran v. d. Sloot was with Natalee Holloway. After draining 80% of the water, they used a crane to look through the mud and found different items. There was a handbag in which there was a headband. Aside from this, the bag was full of rocks, which indicates that the person who threw it in the pond didn’t want it to be found. Aside from the handbag and the headband, they found 2 cloth bags, a machete, 2 items of drug paraphernalia and a shoe. All the articles were in the mud and had to be washed to determine if they had anything to do with the investigation. The work lasted until nightfall. All articles were confiscated and now they will be further looked into to see if they are related to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Yesterday during the day a few divers dove in the vicinity of the fishermen huts again to look for clues.”

LACLE said 7-27 that his sources believe that the ARUBAN police are looking in the pond for a missing tennis shoe sneaker that belongs to Principal Suspect J. SLOOT. (AMERICAN retired homicide detective MARK FUHRMAN theorized that if the pond was low on water on 5-30 that the pond bottom would be muddy, and if someone was doing something in the pond mud/muck that a shoe could easily have gotten stuck in the mud and subsequently come off someone’s foot)

On 12-6 BETH told “FoxNews” that early in the investigation, the family was told by the ARUBAN police investigators that blood was found inside a 5-29/30-worn “K-Swiss” brand, size 14, tennis shoe that is predominantly white with some blue trim that belongs to Principal Suspect J. SLOOT that was taken into evidence (the other 5-29/30-worn “K-Swiss” brand, size 14 tennis shoe has--according to the ARUBAN police authorities--has never been found). The ARUBAN police investigators told the family that the found blood inside the tennis shoe taken into evidence would be forensically tested, but, to date, BETH said she does not recall for sure if the ARUBAN police investigators have ever reported about the results of any blood tests, nor have the DUTCH nor the ARUBANS even said if the blood tests have ever been completed on the shoe.


On 12-9 the “Websleuth” forum’s user “mic730” wrote a synopsis of the “Vanity Fair” article. For those who have not read it:  http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?s=7ca3cfbb61813c4c427bcee6c88c464b&t=33302

... (per DOMPIG) "Detectives on Aruba have many times called witnesses in an effort to establish JVDS time line. To no avail. 'It's been widely reported that JVDS returned to his home that morning around 4. In fact, Dompig says 'nobody knows what time he got home.' Nor is it clear how he got there. 'He says he walked' , Dompig continues, 'a distance of about 2 miles. That is very unlikely.' Joran’s tennis shoes he wore that night have never been found and the police find that suspicious. Also missing are a machete and a lobster trap from the fishermen’s hut."

On 2-18 the “AD.NL” news "Inland country" section,  http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/article161584.ece  wrote "The police force expects at the grave of Holloway to also find the tennis shoes of Joran. He has explained during interrogation that he left his shoes behind and walked home."

On 2-23 the MERIDIAN, MISSISSIPPI “NBC” tv channel 11 wrote: "Holloway sat down with us to watch the interview with van der Sloot, and he says there are too many holes for him to be believed. Chief among them, he said, is how the Dutch teen says he left his shoes on the beach and how that isn't proof that he was panicked when he left.

'For someone to say he left his shoes on the beach and jumped in the car and left, something happened,' said Holloway. 'You don't run off and leave your shoes and then start making up a bunch of lies.'


On 2-23 "ABC" documented Primary Suspect J. SLOOT claiming there were alot of couples on the beach near the "Marriott Hotel" that he claims he and NATALEE walked on. He claims he "took of my shoes" and that the shoes got sand in them. ... Primary Suspect J. SLOOT claimed "I left without my shoes." When CUOMO asks why he would forget his shoes, Primary Suspect J. SLOOT is smirking, then responds "I did not panick." I left them on the beach." "I could not go back when i remembered the shoes because we were going home." CUOMO states in the backround, "Natalee, and the shoes, have never been found."

[wreck]

On 7-31 J. MANSUR said that the police are looking for a size 14, brand “K-Swiss,” expensive tennis shoe that Principal Suspect J. SLOOT was missing, and had tried to buy a single same tennis shoe of in the 10+ days before his arrest. The police think the tennis shoe may be in/near the pond.

Still one of my favorite tidbits!!!