Natalee Case Discussion #755 5/31 - 6/5/08

[dennisintn]

The ALE also tellith lies.  Why would they be honest about the color of a pair of missing shoes?

Exactly

i emailed a request for dana to ask jossy about the difference in diario's description of the shoe/shoes as large and the official spokesman's description as a small size lady's shoe.  also asked about whether it was a pair or just one shoe, and whether the island has any red clay which, if it isn't bleached out blood stains, is what the stains remind me of.
dennisintn

Funny how evidence changes down in Aruba, Dennis. We first heard it was a large shoe, then it became a small ladies shoe. Kind of like blood turning into chocolate.

lol, is there anything that they haven't had at least two vastly different explanations or descriptions for?
dennisintn

[jackb]

jackb:

Now don't tell me Joran has on two different shoes on the dance floor.  Maybe he lost one and had to wear something close that resembled it, sort of so he could get that picture on the dance floor dated (supposedly) before the NH group was there.  That sure is a tall woman he is with, also guido's (I guess it is guido as Freddy is over to the man who's arem is up in the air)  Could be one of the Kalpoes with his Arm up in the air as one is supposed to be in the audience.  Also they sure like to piece pics in and paste
shoes in, arms growing out of backs so they can say someone had their hand in someones pants.  The girl must be well over 6 ft. tall.  Also that shirt sleeve on the uplifted arm belongs on the arm in the pants pocket.  That wasn't even a good pase in.         Jackb

No, all I am saying is that the actual shoes Joran is wearing in the Greta interview cannot be the same actual pair of shoes found "recently." If he "lost" his shoes that night -- he could not wear them a year later in Greta's interview (unless ALE returned them to him.) IF ALE had returned them to him the "recent" shoes could not be his!

PS -- The "dance floor" shoes could be EITHER the pair he wore on Greta's OR the pair found "recently." We cannot have ALL 3 pairs being the same actual shoes.

Wreck I've been told that there is a born on date stamped inside each shoe by the manufacture. But LE would already know that, or not.

We can if we want too.  Joran's feet stinks and shrinks, whey not.
As for me I am thinking the dance floor shoes are likely murder shoes and the one missing shoe may be a mate to the one that is on the dancefloor.  The dance floor shoes do not look to me at this time to match, but since they blurr everything out that is key, then we have to fill in the blanks with why they do not match or whatever.

He could have done his do, and lost his shoe. One was pasted in an pic to mock the family so it would be seen but not seen.  They are a cruel group so I do not put anything past their mockery. They are blurring out things just enough so you really cannot tell people or details, or have is obvious in some instances.  What they never figured on it seems, is that people would ever looks so close at anything.  J/b

[Puzzler]

Klaas, maybe this will help. I had a hard time seeing it too.

mrskub & Rob - yes I see what you are talking about but it still doesn't look like a JV or TV to me.

It looks like a JV if I look at it upside down.

[jackb]

jackb:

Now don't tell me Joran has on two different shoes on the dance floor.  Maybe he lost one and had to wear something close that resembled it, sort of so he could get that picture on the dance floor dated (supposedly) before the NH group was there.  That sure is a tall woman he is with, also guido's (I guess it is guido as Freddy is over to the man who's arem is up in the air)  Could be one of the Kalpoes with his Arm up in the air as one is supposed to be in the audience.  Also they sure like to piece pics in and paste
shoes in, arms growing out of backs so they can say someone had their hand in someones pants.  The girl must be well over 6 ft. tall.  Also that shirt sleeve on the uplifted arm belongs on the arm in the pants pocket.  That wasn't even a good pase in.         Jackb

No, all I am saying is that the actual shoes Joran is wearing in the Greta interview cannot be the same actual pair of shoes found "recently." If he "lost" his shoes that night -- he could not wear them a year later in Greta's interview (unless ALE returned them to him.) IF ALE had returned them to him the "recent" shoes could not be his!

PS -- The "dance floor" shoes could be EITHER the pair he wore on Greta's OR the pair found "recently." We cannot have ALL 3 pairs being the same actual shoes.

Wreck I've been told that there is a born on date stamped inside each shoe by the manufacture. But LE would already know that, or not.

We can if we want too.  Joran's feet stinks and shrinks, whey not.
As for me I am thinking the dance floor shoes are likely murder shoes and the one missing shoe may be a mate to the one that is on the dancefloor.  The dance floor shoes do not look to me at this time to match, but since they blurr everything out that is key, then we have to fill in the blanks with why they do not match or whatever.

He could have done his do, and lost his shoe. One was pasted in an pic to mock the family so it would be seen but not seen.  They are a cruel group so I do not put anything past their mockery. They are blurring out things just enough so you really cannot tell people or details, or have is obvious in some instances.  What they never figured on it seems, is that people would ever looks so close at anything.  J/b

Say what you will.  ALE found ONE shoe in his home.  Took it away and no one heard from it since.  They may have returned it to Palus and/or Joran who got rid of it (wasn't that near where Pvs phone was found?) and the ALE shoe was found and this may be the one we are looking at.  The other one they NEVER had (the ALE) and may be in the cage with NH.  If she was in a plastic bag, I would think the bag would have shredded enough to float throug the cracks, some of anyway and pieces of the bag are floating around in the ocean, but the big old shoe 'ant goin' nowhere.'   Jackb

[klaasend]

Destiny - just saw your message and replied to your email!  GREAT JOB!

Looks like Destiny should be receiving some very reliable information tomorrow in regards to the shoe. 

[Observer]

Klaas, maybe this will help. I had a hard time seeing it too.

mrskub & Rob - yes I see what you are talking about but it still doesn't look like a JV or TV to me.

that's ok...

I just want to know the darn size of the things - ya evah notice how the most important details are always lost on these idiots we endearingly call Arubans?

From what we heard it was a tip that went to Diario and they went there and snapped the pics,I guess before the ALE confiscated them..All they said were they were large shoes but I have a hard time believing they did not measure them is some way.

[Observer]

The Dana Pretzer Show On Scared Monkeys Radio - Listen LIVE TONIGHT at
 9PM Eastern - Guests Include Clint Van Zandt, Art Wood Discussing The
 Natalee Holloway Investigation 3 Years Later

Join Dana and his guests:

    * Dr. Clint Van Zandt, retired FBI Agent
    * Art Wood, former Secret Service agent

LISTEN LIVE TONIGHT AT 9PM EASTERN

[jackb]

Klaas, maybe this will help. I had a hard time seeing it too.

mrskub & Rob - yes I see what you are talking about but it still doesn't look like a JV or TV to me.

It looks like a JV if I look at it upside down.

It really does.  It could be a small set of stitching for bracing the shoe back and a scuff, but that is a big coincidence.  Right now I am 70 - 30 in favor of the stitching and the scar (this could go up...lol.) Joran does seems to like throwing his initials around.   jackb 

[Destiny]

Destiny - just saw your message and replied to your email!  GREAT JOB!

Looks like Destiny should be receiving some very reliable information tomorrow in regards to the shoe. 

TY Klaas...and *everyone* who helped on the last minute crunch last nite....we Monkeys really work good as a *team/tribe*...

Klaas one more hotmail in your banana basket

[jackb]

Klaas, maybe this will help. I had a hard time seeing it too.

mrskub & Rob - yes I see what you are talking about but it still doesn't look like a JV or TV to me.

It looks like a JV if I look at it upside down.

It really does.  It could be a small set of stitching for bracing the shoe back and a scuff, but that is a big coincidence.  Right now I am 70 - 30 in favor of the stitching and the scar (this could go up...lol.) Joran does seems to like throwing his initials around.   jackb 

Flip then mirror the recently found shoe.  Sometimes when pictures are posted, they are reversed because film is not marked properly if they use film.  Sometimes they are reversed anyway and a left shoe looks like a right shoe.  Just because a logo such as Dario or whomever is on the front of the picture does not make it necessarily not mirrored.  Now on this shoe picture, after it is fliped, then mirrored notice just under the bar on the J or T there is very small lettering showing rather clearly, but very small a good J and V.  The marking is over some stitching as kids have a knack of tracing over stitching with pens, etc while sitting around doing nothing.  The marking is broken, but over stitching and around close to the sole rubber that attached to the shoe, just diddling with a pen with some good ink, but some of it may have faded off on the bottom of the "J" part or it could be a "T."  Not likely a T as the little initials under the T bar at top are a bit more cursive and small.  This has gone up to 60 50 in favor of Initials.   Jackb

[Destiny]

Destiny - just saw your message and replied to your email!  GREAT JOB!

Looks like Destiny should be receiving some very reliable information tomorrow in regards to the shoe. 

TY Klaas...and *everyone* who helped on the last minute crunch last nite....we Monkeys really work good as a *team/tribe*...

Klaas one more hotmail in your banana basket

Sorry Klaas....2 more Hotmails in your Banana basket...

Destiny

[mrskub]

I flipped the image aqnd changed the brightness. I don't know how to "mirror" the image. Sorry.

.

[jackb]

Klaas, maybe this will help. I had a hard time seeing it too.

mrskub & Rob - yes I see what you are talking about but it still doesn't look like a JV or TV to me.

It looks like a JV if I look at it upside down.

It really does.  It could be a small set of stitching for bracing the shoe back and a scuff, but that is a big coincidence.  Right now I am 70 - 30 in favor of the stitching and the scar (this could go up...lol.) Joran does seems to like throwing his initials around.   jackb 

Flip then mirror the recently found shoe.  Sometimes when pictures are posted, they are reversed because film is not marked properly if they use film.  Sometimes they are reversed anyway and a left shoe looks like a right shoe.  Just because a logo such as Dario or whomever is on the front of the picture does not make it necessarily not mirrored.  Now on this shoe picture, after it is fliped, then mirrored notice just under the bar on the J or T there is very small lettering showing rather clearly, but very small a good J and V.  The marking is over some stitching as kids have a knack of tracing over stitching with pens, etc while sitting around doing nothing.  The marking is broken, but over stitching and around close to the sole rubber that attached to the shoe, just diddling with a pen with some good ink, but some of it may have faded off on the bottom of the "J" part or it could be a "T."  Not likely a T as the little initials under the T bar at top are a bit more cursive and small.  This has gone up to 60 50 in favor of Initials.   Jackb

Lets make that 60 40 in favor of the initials...LOL...can't count can I?

[klaasend]

Destiny - just saw your message and replied to your email!  GREAT JOB!

Looks like Destiny should be receiving some very reliable information tomorrow in regards to the shoe. 

TY Klaas...and *everyone* who helped on the last minute crunch last nite....we Monkeys really work good as a *team/tribe*...

Klaas one more hotmail in your banana basket

Just saw this (sorry but I'm distracted today with painters etc).  Please check your email.

[johan555]

i found this document
what was going on outside that hotel room ?

[Dayhiker]

From what we heard it was a tip that went to Diario and they went there and snapped the pics,I guess before the ALE confiscated them..All they said were they were large shoes but I have a hard time believing they did not measure them is some way.

Yep and it's pretty damn hard to mistake a large men's shoe for a small women's shoe, especially if you took the time to eyeball it and photograph it. Something stinks, as usual, on Aruba.

[jackb]

i found this document
what was going on outside that hotel room ?

Could she tell if the person was caucasion?  Wonder where Cromvroit was that day?  I really got a bug on him, haven't I?  j/b

[Lala'sMom]

I hope we find out where that shoe is...I mean who has it in their possesion...I mean if ALE has it as evidence...I mean if has it been flushed down the abyss...I mean if Paulus found the mate...I mean if the shoe is still at the rocks...I mean if the shoe is selling on ebay.....well you get my drift...where is the shoe?  What happened to it? 

[wreck]

I hope we find out where that shoe is...I mean who has it in their possesion...I mean if ALE has it as evidence...I mean if has it been flushed down the abyss...I mean if Paulus found the mate...I mean if the shoe is still at the rocks...I mean if the shoe is selling on ebay.....well you get my drift...where is the shoe?  What happened to it? 

It's very simple -- the shoe can be found along side the belt, bloody mattress, arm bone(s), contents of the fish trap,the blood schocolate stains, etc. etc. etc.

[Destiny]

I hope we find out where that shoe is...I mean who has it in their possesion...I mean if ALE has it as evidence...I mean if has it been flushed down the abyss...I mean if Paulus found the mate...I mean if the shoe is still at the rocks...I mean if the shoe is selling on ebay.....well you get my drift...where is the shoe?  What happened to it? 

I'm working on that issue Lalas'...

Destiny