Natalee Case Discussion #755 5/31 - 6/5/08

[Lala'sMom]

How old is Freddy?

Lala's - I think I've seen his birthdate somewhere but I believe he is a year or so older than Joran.  He was at least 18 in May 2005.

Thanks. I keep thinking he's older as in 3 or 4 years for some reason.  Hmmmmm.  Now how does an 18 year old come to own a video shop at Catiri7A?  And why does he still live with momma if he has a place in town?  Hmmmm.

[Lala'sMom]

I wonder if Dana would entertain some questions for Jossy tonight?  I have a few I would really like to ask him. 

[dennisintn]

The ALE also tellith lies.  Why would they be honest about the color of a pair of missing shoes?

Exactly

i emailed a request for dana to ask jossy about the difference in diario's description of the shoe/shoes as large and the official spokesman's description as a small size lady's shoe.  also asked about whether it was a pair or just one shoe, and whether the island has any red clay which, if it isn't bleached out blood stains, is what the stains remind me of.
dennisintn

[jackb]

How old is Freddy?

Lala's - I think I've seen his birthdate somewhere but I believe he is a year or so older than Joran.  He was at least 18 in May 2005.

Thanks. I keep thinking he's older as in 3 or 4 years for some reason.  Hmmmmm.  Now how does an 18 year old come to own a video shop at Catiri7A?  And why does he still live with momma if he has a place in town?  Hmmmm.

I am thinking Freddy is several years older than Joran.  I believe he was 23 in 2005 or something along that line.  I will try to find out.
J/b

[wreck]

I don't see any "blue trim" in the recent shoe pics. 

No, I don't either but I also don't see any blue trim on the shoes that Joran told Greta were identical to the ones he lost/left on the beach:

Look really close on the pic where greta has her shoe with Joran's.
On the inside heel of Joran's shoe is a J V.  It is not all together, but
a J and a V.  Strange.  If you all see it too, then I believe I am right about Joran likes to sign things.  Other things have his initials on them as well.   Jackb

I don't see the "JV" , but someone was claiming it looked like "TV" initials in the recently found shoe!!

[bleachedblack]

There are a couple of views of the sneaker that we aren't really able to see. Infact if I look closely there does appear to be some dark (can't see if blue or not) at the inner aspect left heel pictured. It could be on both inner and outer only outer isn't visible.

[distortion]

The ALE also tellith lies.  Why would they be honest about the color of a pair of missing shoes?

Exactly

i emailed a request for dana to ask jossy about the difference in diario's description of the shoe/shoes as large and the official spokesman's description as a small size lady's shoe.  also asked about whether it was a pair or just one shoe, and whether the island has any red clay which, if it isn't bleached out blood stains, is what the stains remind me of.
dennisintn

There must be red clay because of this descrip of de flag:
The blue of the field was chosen intentionally to match the shade used in the flag of the United Nations. The unique four-pointed star represents the four points of the compass and hence Aruba’s connections by air and sea from all directions. It also symbolizes the island itself—the red evoking the red clay of its soil, the white border representing the white sand beaches that ring it—as well as the pride Arubans have for their island and their struggle for liberty. The yellow stripes stand for tourism and industry, which provide the high standard of living enjoyed by the island’s people. Yellow also recalls the former gold industry and the brilliant yellow flowers found across the island.

[jackb]

How old is Freddy?

Lala's - I think I've seen his birthdate somewhere but I believe he is a year or so older than Joran.  He was at least 18 in May 2005.

Thanks. I keep thinking he's older as in 3 or 4 years for some reason.  Hmmmmm.  Now how does an 18 year old come to own a video shop at Catiri7A?  And why does he still live with momma if he has a place in town?  Hmmmm.

Joran met Freddy supposedly when Freddy was 19.  I don't know when, but assuming they are neighbors that is strange.   j/b

[jackb]

The ALE also tellith lies.  Why would they be honest about the color of a pair of missing shoes?

Exactly

i emailed a request for dana to ask jossy about the difference in diario's description of the shoe/shoes as large and the official spokesman's description as a small size lady's shoe.  also asked about whether it was a pair or just one shoe, and whether the island has any red clay which, if it isn't bleached out blood stains, is what the stains remind me of.
dennisintn

There must be red clay because of this descrip of de flag:
The blue of the field was chosen intentionally to match the shade used in the flag of the United Nations. The unique four-pointed star represents the four points of the compass and hence Aruba’s connections by air and sea from all directions. It also symbolizes the island itself—the red evoking the red clay of its soil, the white border representing the white sand beaches that ring it—as well as the pride Arubans have for their island and their struggle for liberty. The yellow stripes stand for tourism and industry, which provide the high standard of living enjoyed by the island’s people. Yellow also recalls the former gold industry and the brilliant yellow flowers found across the island.

What I am seeing is definitely NOT red clay.  Red clay does not leave spatter spots that get darker under the right lighting.   Jackb

[bleachedblack]

Yes the dust and dirt that blows is red especially in the Arikok Park region. Not sure if it is "clay" technically or what. But if you get the dust on you, say the back of ones shorts riding an ATV and sweat or rain gets it wet it will turn reddish.

[wreck]

Just curious JB - what do you use to see the things you do? Is it a special software program, equipment, or just super human eyes? Is it expensive?

[klaasend]

Jackb - I don't see that.  I did notice that the arch on the CnC photo looks exactly like the arch in the Greta interview 

[klaasend]

Dana Pretzer tonight - hopefully Jossy will be on as well:

The Dana Pretzer Show On Scared Monkeys Radio - Listen LIVE TONIGHT at 9PM
Eastern - Guests Include Clint Van Zandt, Art Wood Discussing The Natalee
Holloway Investigation 3 Years Later

[wreck]

Jackb - I don't see that.  I did notice that the arch on the CnC photo looks exactly like the arch in the Greta interview 

But then again, I see the "arch" on the "Greta interview" and in this picture - but not the "recent" shoe pic. These shoes are all VERY similar -- but I just don't think they are all EXACT matches. (I know that neither confirms or negates that the recent shoe/s is/are Jorans.)
I am more interested if in fact a "J" and a "V" are written on these shoes!

[klaasend]

Wreck - FWIW, I don't see a JV or TV etched on any of the shoes 

[Dayhiker]

Curacao falls outside
American Airlines’ economy measure

WILLEMSTAD – The two daily flights from Miami to Curacao are not as yet included in American Airline’s economy measures. AA will reduce the number of direct flights between New York (JFK) and Aruba drastically.  American Eagle will cancel her flights from San Juan to St. Maarten and Aruba, and Bonaire will be left with 3 weekly flights.

Effective September of this year, the direct AA-flights from New York to Aruba on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays are going to be cancelled.  Also American Eagle’s flights from San Juan to Aruba and St. Maarten will be cancelled, same as the jet-flights between Puerto Rico and St. Maarten.

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

That's a big hit. Expect more of this, there was a feature story on all airlines cutting back this morning on the NBC Today Show. Skyrocketing fuel costs are going to drive them all to cutbacks their flights, only the profitable flights will survive. Distance is a huge factor and Aruba is at the bottom of the chain.

[Dayhiker]

Yes the dust and dirt that blows is red especially in the Arikok Park region. Not sure if it is "clay" technically or what. But if you get the dust on you, say the back of ones shorts riding an ATV and sweat or rain gets it wet it will turn reddish.

Interesting photo BB. It shows the coral bedrock we've heard so much about very well.

[wreck]

Wreck - FWIW, I don't see a JV or TV etched on any of the shoes 

I don't either -- but some people have seen it on both (independently). Maybe, some people's monitors have higher resolution than mine!

[jackb]

I don't see any "blue trim" in the recent shoe pics. 

No, I don't either but I also don't see any blue trim on the shoes that Joran told Greta were identical to the ones he lost/left on the beach:

Look really close on the pic where greta has her shoe with Joran's.
On the inside heel of Joran's shoe is a J V.  It is not all together, but
a J and a V.  Strange.  If you all see it too, then I believe I am right about Joran likes to sign things.  Other things have his initials on them as well.   Jackb

I don't see the "JV" , but someone was claiming it looked like "TV" initials in the recently found shoe!!

Knife carvings on shoes cannot be too exact.  Also if they have been exposed to the elements, the bottom part of the J, may have lapped over and shrunk.  Note the other shoes on Greta show seems to have a J and a V on the inside heel.  It looks like it anyway.  I have not looked all too closely just yet and it could be cracks in the shoe, but if so it is a coincidence.   Jackb

[Dayhiker]

The ALE also tellith lies.  Why would they be honest about the color of a pair of missing shoes?

Exactly

i emailed a request for dana to ask jossy about the difference in diario's description of the shoe/shoes as large and the official spokesman's description as a small size lady's shoe.  also asked about whether it was a pair or just one shoe, and whether the island has any red clay which, if it isn't bleached out blood stains, is what the stains remind me of.
dennisintn

Funny how evidence changes down in Aruba, Dennis. We first heard it was a large shoe, then it became a small ladies shoe. Kind of like blood turning into chocolate.