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Author Topic: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4  (Read 650200 times)
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1300 on: August 08, 2008, 07:32:53 PM »

As long as I am confusing the issue...let's remember that Caps thought Alex Mathews could have been Shango.  I think we established the fact that he was not in KIA at the time of the postings.  I would have to go back and find it if anyone is curious. 


Lala's...Thanks for the reminder about Mathew. Need to go back and see whether his company that he says has an office in Aruba is in the phone book or on the Chamber list. Last I looked it wasn't.

Strange that he can go back and forth, deep sea fishing when he is there, but Carlos Severino Tromp can't go back to see his family. They had similar problems with Aruban officials, one goes back, one can not.

Hopefully I will have some time next week to revisit Alex and his ex-wife...
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1301 on: August 08, 2008, 07:42:27 PM »

Who is David?  That be the question.

My upbringing teaches me that David was the second and greatest king of......Israel.

David Fisiitalia, mother's maiden name Weber and worked US Customs...David is all over Joran's book. Explains Ms Jean Akers...and a lot of other things...

David (Dave) Holloway
David Kock (Kalpoe atty)
David Wever (is it spelled Weijer in Nederlands?)
David Stacey (disappearance of Max Devires - 14 yr old staying at Aruba H.I)

My guess is the last one. He came back with scratches on his face (didn't Joran also have scratches?) , and ALE allowed him to take a shower before he met with Max's mom.

What about David Shahriari...now former GM of the Marriott.

Not familiar with that one...guess I need to google! 
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Poochy
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« Reply #1302 on: August 08, 2008, 07:58:30 PM »

Who is David?  That be the question.

My upbringing teaches me that David was the second and greatest king of......Israel.

David Fisiitalia, mother's maiden name Weber and worked US Customs...David is all over Joran's book. Explains Ms Jean Akers...and a lot of other things...

So do you think Shango is implying that this David was involved, but never identified as a witness or suspect?  Maybe....The only problem I have right now with applying this David to Shango's David is that I have a lot of doubts about Wee Winky Van Der Sloot using the correct name of anyone who was truly involved if they had not already been spotlighted by either the media or ALE. 

When looking at the Shango post I feel that the use of 'David' may not be the actual name of the person he refers to...just because Shango was never that direct about anything.  I do, however, believe that his use of that name strongly points to a particular individual...you just have to know the connection.  I think Simian did and assumed that many that were reading the FP would know...even if those people were not posting. (FBI, Beth or Dave, etc.)  If Simian believed it was incriminating enough to 'hit back' sotospeak with an angry post, I can't help but believe that it can be figured out.

I ain't givin' up yet.


Truthseeker…I keep going back and forth with David Fisiitalia? If he was the David, why use his real name? Unless, as I said before…Joran’ is arrogant! Both he and Paulus mentioned the FBI in their PVs in reference to Eric Williams. Joran also mentioned an Agent Smit,((sp) from the US Embassy. Some Embassies do have DEA attached to them, but I am not sure that there were any FBI on Curacao. They are not stationed there for the Caribbean.

Jean Akers is the one that makes me think American. Her being at Joran’s get out of jail party! Then that could be something else. She did her Masters at the University of Amersterdam. I think Geoffrey Wever who works at Croes Wever and Tchong may have been there at the same time. He fits the age that we were told for Guido Wever originally, around 24 at the time. Would have to check old posts on that one.

Poochy mentioned David Wever, supposedly Guido’s brother. All the confusion from Tito with Lorenzo Wever in the beginning. I believe this was deliberate, to hide some-one. Ss found 2 Guido Wevers.

We have lots of Florida connections to this case. A big red flag with me is why were the family or their lawyers were not permitted into the US/Aruba Washington meeting? Chata’s post with the FBI reference set me off all over again…LOL…Then it may be something as simple as political blackmail by Aruba…Forward Operating Posts, Venezuela, Columbia…but I would love to know exactly what Aruba told the US officials in that meeting…

Not giving up either...


The last one is the only one that came out alive. He went with deVries and only David Stacey came back alive. There's a David Stacey who was a truck driver who literally smashed two motorcyclists into another truck - in the U.S. Max's mother said they stayed in Aruba a week, yet did not have much luggage at all. David was there with his 'adopted son' -in his 30's. Max's mom said looking back now at Natalee's disappearance, none of it makes any sense to her wrt her son's disappearance.

If it is David Stacey, Shango says (June 28, 2005 at 1:55am) "Find the music. ONly David left the den alive. " then the den has to be on a boat - if that is where David lured Max on Max's fateful day.

But then we this Shango quote (June 27, 2005 at 8:04 pm):
The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well.

Do you think the reference to DirtyHand being ALIVE, and only David left the den ALIVE could be related? As in DirtyHand =David? DirtyHand, who is alive and well? (just tossin' it out there !)

And I truly agree - Lorenzo, Renzo, van Rijn (ahem can anybody say Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn as in the famous painter?) and Wever and Weijer and however else you spell their names - yeah, I'd say we were being taken for a ride.
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truthseeker2
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« Reply #1303 on: August 08, 2008, 08:07:03 PM »

I am wide open on who Shango may have be talking about.  You make a good argument with your post.  I still haven't settled on any one individual yet.

As for the "alive" connection, if DH and David are the same person, then none of the Davids seem like they could command the type of fear and concern that Shango describes.  Or, we don't really know enough about all of them.

I think Lorenzo was a red herring.  They tried to pin this on the two security guards and Beth saw right through that one.  They needed someone else to try and pin it on.  Lorenzo's rep on the island made him a good candidate.  imho
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1304 on: August 08, 2008, 08:30:33 PM »

I am wide open on who Shango may have be talking about.  You make a good argument with your post.  I still haven't settled on any one individual yet.

As for the "alive" connection, if DH and David are the same person, then none of the Davids seem like they could command the type of fear and concern that Shango describes.  Or, we don't really know enough about all of them.

I think Lorenzo was a red herring.  They tried to pin this on the two security guards and Beth saw right through that one.  They needed someone else to try and pin it on.  Lorenzo's rep on the island made him a good candidate.  imho

Throwing another kink in here about Lorenzo.  As you know I would love for him to be part of all this, but the only reason I suspect him is because the very, very first person ever  mentioned was Lorenzo and his blue van. It was mentioned by Checkme, Americaninaruba, and several others.  That was at the very beginning before anyone had time to organize the cover up on a massive scale.  Having said that, it does not make him involved, just that he was on the radar at first and then was either dismissed as a suspect or was told to leave him out of it regardless.  He has some sort of influence because he literally walked off scot-free from drug charges later.  The others that were arrested are paying their dues and he is not.  MOO
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1305 on: August 08, 2008, 09:03:40 PM »

I am wide open on who Shango may have be talking about.  You make a good argument with your post.  I still haven't settled on any one individual yet.

As for the "alive" connection, if DH and David are the same person, then none of the Davids seem like they could command the type of fear and concern that Shango describes.  Or, we don't really know enough about all of them.

I think Lorenzo was a red herring.  They tried to pin this on the two security guards and Beth saw right through that one.  They needed someone else to try and pin it on.  Lorenzo's rep on the island made him a good candidate.  imho

Throwing another kink in here about Lorenzo.  As you know I would love for him to be part of all this, but the only reason I suspect him is because the very, very first person ever  mentioned was Lorenzo and his blue van. It was mentioned by Checkme, Americaninaruba, and several others.  That was at the very beginning before anyone had time to organize the cover up on a massive scale.  Having said that, it does not make him involved, just that he was on the radar at first and then was either dismissed as a suspect or was told to leave him out of it regardless.  He has some sort of influence because he literally walked off scot-free from drug charges later.  The others that were arrested are paying their dues and he is not.  MOO

Lala’s…I think the cover-up was well and truly in place by June 10th…Freddy mentioned by a poster on June 9th…I haven’t seen Lorenzo yet…still on June 10th. Checkme and americaninaruba may have been posting in the Forum then...still on the FP…

Oh and Julia’s on TV…Natalee seen sick/drunk in the ladies’ room?

chantell on June 10th, 2005 2:21 pm

one of the accused, Satish, his site is still up… check it out
http://spaces.msn.com/members/thebestone10/

langosta on June 10th, 2005 2:27 pm

wow! You know what blows me away…through ALL this going on, he’s UPDATING his “spaces” page!!! the “Friends” were updated just TWO days ago and the “Aruba” section was updated on the 4th!! HELL-LLLOOOO…someone you DROPPED OFF AT A HOTEL IS MISSING and you were the last one to see her ALIVE!!!!! how ’bout helping in the freaking SEARCH!

Tom on June 10th, 2005 2:27 pm (talking about tickle sites)

Ashley
We tried to link to it yesterday but the account had already been shut down.
Tom

chantell on June 10th, 2005 2:28 pm

Joran’s msn profile…

http://members.msn.com/default.msnw?guids=6XKlWX0flEdSwxM0r*naQjOKK!*DVyALfe8Ib0t9s1yYCkjrShrDUzDDM7HBilK*qj

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COLOMBO
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« Reply #1306 on: August 08, 2008, 09:20:39 PM »

I am wide open on who Shango may have be talking about.  You make a good argument with your post.  I still haven't settled on any one individual yet.

As for the "alive" connection, if DH and David are the same person, then none of the Davids seem like they could command the type of fear and concern that Shango describes.  Or, we don't really know enough about all of them.

I think Lorenzo was a red herring.  They tried to pin this on the two security guards and Beth saw right through that one.  They needed someone else to try and pin it on.  Lorenzo's rep on the island made him a good candidate.  imho


Beth sure stirred up a hornets nest the night she said the word "Lorenzo" On The Record with Greta....for this reason I would tend to disagree

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Babylonians hands are not dirty.

 Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Nobody is a boob. The alibi needs to be destroyed. Daddy knows who was there. He has answers too.

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The Kalpoes know nothing. They will remain locked up for lying and obstructing the investigation.
Did I say something about a blue van? I don’t think so.
However, I feel CheckMe is jumping on my bandwagon. E ta OK swa…

re: DirtyHand
Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm
Simian, who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian….

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Did the babylonians like to make movies?
From the tears, a new river will spring forth….
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truthseeker2
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« Reply #1307 on: August 08, 2008, 09:27:19 PM »

So...the discussion of Lorenzo began when Beth mentioned it on Greta?  If so, where did she get his name?  They were running Beth and Jug all over the place with misinformation.  Did someone drop Lorenzo's name to them?
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COLOMBO
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« Reply #1308 on: August 08, 2008, 09:28:58 PM »


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for (watch?) Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.


Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes (Freddie)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card (DirtyHand) sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

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COLOMBO
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« Reply #1309 on: August 08, 2008, 09:29:43 PM »

So...the discussion of Lorenzo began when Beth mentioned it on Greta?  If so, where did she get his name?  They were running Beth and Jug all over the place with misinformation.  Did someone drop Lorenzo's name to them?


That is not what I said
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truthseeker2
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« Reply #1310 on: August 08, 2008, 09:31:11 PM »

So...the discussion of Lorenzo began when Beth mentioned it on Greta?  If so, where did she get his name?  They were running Beth and Jug all over the place with misinformation.  Did someone drop Lorenzo's name to them?


That is not what I said

Well...what did you say????????
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truthseeker2
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« Reply #1311 on: August 08, 2008, 09:41:34 PM »


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into Babylon on his 12:31 A.M. post

Babalú Says: June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am
Concerned: No, I guess he is head of some local official corps. He is the guy that knows everything and that has been in the house of Babylonians NOT seeking pleasure for himself, so Shango says. So maybe he went to search for (watch?) Natalee and he is the chief of Polis.


Babalú Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
The kidnapper is not Aruban
Van Rijn can not be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
The Arubans are prepared to give somebody as a token culprit
They will not sacrifice Steve Croes (Freddie)

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from babylon
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card (DirtyHand) sing because hand holding it dirty too.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders



Not sure what you are trying to say hear either because the posts you chose here are not even in the order in which they were posted.  Not even on the same days.

Babalu's June 26th, 2005 at 9:26 pm post is a spitball interpretation of this:

Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak
The singing card can not be played
The cowboys would circle the wagons
The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice
light the fires
the gods are talking


Shango gives him no credit for getting anything right.

Shango DOES credit him for his June 27th, 2005 at 12:30 am post regarding Dirty Hand.  This was AFTER Babalu tried interpreting the post form the 26th.

So exactly what point were you trying to make?
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COLOMBO
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« Reply #1312 on: August 08, 2008, 09:45:33 PM »

So...the discussion of Lorenzo began when Beth mentioned it on Greta?  If so, where did she get his name?  They were running Beth and Jug all over the place with misinformation.  Did someone drop Lorenzo's name to them?


That is not what I said

Do you believe that the first mention of Lorenzo was by Beth on Greta? Did I post that anywhere?
Well...what did you say????????
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« Reply #1313 on: August 08, 2008, 09:47:03 PM »

Ts2:

sorry 'bout that post-this was left out-

Do you believe that Beth was the first to mention Lorenzo on Greta? Is this your interpretation of my post?
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truthseeker2
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« Reply #1314 on: August 08, 2008, 10:00:09 PM »

Ts2:

sorry 'bout that post-this was left out-

Do you believe that Beth was the first to mention Lorenzo on Greta? Is this your interpretation of my post?

My interpretation of your post is that you believe the discussions about Lorenzo moved into high gear after Beth mentioned him on Greta's show.  During that time Beth was receiving a lot of B/S information from people on Aruba.  By the time the posts from Simian and Shango hit the internet the cover up was in full swing with mis-informers posting rampantly all over the place. 

I just don't see anything linking Joran to Lorenzo other than a rumor that Lorenzo was Paulus illegit son.  As far as I know that has never been proven by anyone.
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« Reply #1315 on: August 09, 2008, 06:38:46 AM »

Ts2:

sorry 'bout that post-this was left out-

Do you believe that Beth was the first to mention Lorenzo on Greta? Is this your interpretation of my post?

My interpretation of your post is that you believe the discussions about Lorenzo moved into high gear after Beth mentioned him on Greta's show.  During that time Beth was receiving a lot of B/S information from people on Aruba.  By the time the posts from Simian and Shango hit the internet the cover up was in full swing with mis-informers posting rampantly all over the place. 

I just don't see anything linking Joran to Lorenzo other than a rumor that Lorenzo was Paulus illegit son.  As far as I know that has never been proven by anyone.


your interpretation is not correct.......the statement was long after the discussion had begun, and the response from officials in Aruba was terse. After all of her statements using words like "drugged" and "raped" why officials in Aruba would make comments to the effect "she's hindering the investigation" when she used the word "Lorenzo" was quite strange-particularly given Dennis Jacobs remark that he had nothing to do with the investigation.

Do you find this at all peculiar???
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1316 on: August 09, 2008, 09:30:53 AM »

OK. OK. Lorenzo was a red herring.  I won't even mention what Beth told me at a book signing concerning Lorenzo since she is the one that brought it up first.  I don't care what anyone thinks, Lorenzo was the first person mentioned in this mess.  He was on the locals radar from the beginning because of his reputation.  He had wild parties that involved drugs and porn videos.  He was known by that stuff.  That is why he was mentioned...he seemed likely to be the person that would "know" something or be in a position to help Joran.  He was rumored to be the "supplier" of all things on the island.  He used others to sell his wares and keep him out of the loop.  His place was a fortress.  He was not a celebrity so why did he need security guards and such?  Even Simian probably played a gig at some of his parties. Everyone thought Lorenzo was a bad guy. 

A few things we need to remember about Lorenzo and then I will let it go.

1. He lived in an area that it is reported that a phone call originated from Joran's cell phone the next morning around 6 AM.  Don't anyone ask me for the info, I have no idea how to find it...it's in the Natalee threads and not in Shango.

2. He has been rumored and widely so, to be Paulus relative. This was from several in Aruba. Not just Bondia/Glenda/Julia.

3. He was arrested for drug possession later on and was out in no time flat.  A little talk with the judge and it was over. 

4. He was questioned at least once on the Dr. Phils documents, but I have seen places where others have found him reported to have been questioned from the beginning.  Just because Jacobs says he's not involved does not make it so in my book.  Jacobs was as dirty a hand as you can get in all this.

That's all I am saying on Lorenzo any more.  Let's move on.
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Poochy
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« Reply #1317 on: August 09, 2008, 10:38:02 AM »

So...the discussion of Lorenzo began when Beth mentioned it on Greta?  If so, where did she get his name?  They were running Beth and Jug all over the place with misinformation.  Did someone drop Lorenzo's name to them?

I've watched this case since day one - I truly recall a name tossed out 'LORENZO WEVER". I also remember reseraching the name, and found that WEVER is sometimes spelled WEIJER or WIEJER or even WIEDER in the Netherlands/Nederland.

I heard Lorenzo Wever mentioned once. From then on it became "David Wever". Then it turned into Guido Wever.

I have always felt there is a Lorenzo involved, just maybe not the "blue van" 'crazy guy' Lorenzo. JMHO. Not sure how involved, but early on one of them said his name, and that was the last we ever heard of that name again. It was then assumed it was confused with Lorenzo van Rijn (if a descendant of Rembrandt, how would it look to the Orange throne if he was involved)? Then I recall reading that a Lorenzo Wever/Weijer was an employee of the HI Ca$ino, also playing the tables and friends of Guido Wever.

So was the name Lorenzo Wever/Weijer confused with Guido Wever, who pranced off the island onto safer shores, and who's mummy apparently wore the pants in that family by threatening anybody who so much as said anything about her son on the internet?

If we get the full video footage of what was broadcast on TV from the inside of the HI ca$ino maybe we'll find out something. Remember there are those on the other side the pond who know more than what they are saying (Guido Wever, et al), and there is security footage..." Maybe that is why Posnr was ticked off the footage meant only for ALE was also shown on TV. Someone is shown on that full length footage we're not suppose to see.   

BLACK NUMBERS - IMPLIES ROULETTE OR CRAPS - two clues in this one - CRAPS and NATALEE's FATEFUL MISSING DATE:
5/16/06 7:16 AM  the grey whisper said... [Joran's friend Freddy or Freddy Deeb"]
is Freddy’s purse tied to the black numbers///// texan, the answer is in the numbers 01 06 05. who are the other guests at that charade?

THIS ONE IS VERY CLEAR:
5/16/06 the grey whisper said... texan [Dan in Tx], the answer lies at the roulette table.

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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1318 on: August 09, 2008, 01:01:22 PM »

I’m not ready to give Lorenzo a free pass either…My path to Freddy made sense…Lala’s, Poochy and COLOMBO’s path to Lorenzo makes sense…

Guido was questioned on 6/3, or so they say. Also on 6/7 and 6/8. He went to Holland, but we have been told that some-one else left for Holland immediately after Natalee disappeared. I thought I read that Lorenzo went, anyone? Also David Wever and Max Arendz.

When were the first mentions of Lorenzo and his blue van? Was it SM or somewhere else?  FP or forum? TIA

Darn need to choose a path and stick with it???
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« Reply #1319 on: August 09, 2008, 02:01:06 PM »

I’m not ready to give Lorenzo a free pass either…My path to Freddy made sense…Lala’s, Poochy and COLOMBO’s path to Lorenzo makes sense…

Guido was questioned on 6/3, or so they say. Also on 6/7 and 6/8. He went to Holland, but we have been told that some-one else left for Holland immediately after Natalee disappeared. I thought I read that Lorenzo went, anyone? Also David Wever and Max Arendz.
"a" Lorenzo, not "the" Lorenzo
if you believe Titodidshenotaskforit Lacle

he was doing a Q/A session at SM
and when asked about Lorenzo/meaning LvR
he came off w/ Lorenzo Wever

who, after some research, turned into Guido Wever

 Rolling Eyes

When were the first mentions of Lorenzo and his blue van? Was it SM or somewhere else?  FP or forum? TIA
SM was my only hangout

IIRC, mentioned in the FP before the forum
cuz the FP existed before forum was created:
blue van/crazy painted van


Darn need to choose a path and stick with it???
what? and make the rest of us look bad? LOL


also this, to GinoX from a poster
at the aruba speed shop forum/early june 2005
and translated from papi

aruba speed shop owner/Maxito Arendsz
speed shop forum webmaster/Andry Lopez aka Peeps
(who brought us LvR-in-crazy-painted-van photo)

I know you meant L and his deceased father of VW. I am straight to the point.
 
You mean the american chick that was seen holding hands with Lorenzo? Where did this come from?

Was it not the story that she went out and got into a car with a dutchboy and 2 surinamese?

Now I don't now if I am getting paranoid or crazy but the beginning of last week my neighbor told me they have detained Lorenzo and he was involved in the case. I was shocked when they said a dutch person was involved and this makes me think it is him.

Couple of days later they released the name of Joran then I thought oh, it is not Lorenzo who I thought initially.

What puzzled me was when I read a couple of days ago that they searched Joran's at his house.

But this house looks a lot like Lorenzo's house in Jaraweg/Sav.

Then I thought what is happening? Am I paranoid or what?

What is the connection of Lorenzo and Joran in this case?

And if it is so, why is Lorenzo's name not mentioned in the media?

And what made me put this post on GinoX?

Gino could you or someone else clear this thing up please!



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