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Author Topic: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4  (Read 611651 times)
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1840 on: October 04, 2008, 06:25:18 PM »


it's been implied that Armin "confessed"

my question, again, is:
was his motive/agenda shared?








Who's agenda?  Simian's?  I am confused a little. Help me out. Thanks.
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COLOMBO
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« Reply #1841 on: October 04, 2008, 08:33:10 PM »

Simian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSiIwOBq65Q



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COLOMBO
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« Reply #1842 on: October 04, 2008, 08:37:26 PM »


it's been implied that Armin "confessed"

my question, again, is:
was his motive/agenda shared?








Who's agenda?  Simian's?  I am confused a little. Help me out. Thanks.



lemme see if I can lend a hand:


"Armin Solognier as Simian/Merian has been settled for some time in this thread.  We had some very astute monkeys that found this to be true...in fact...as I asked the other day....not even a confession would convince you...I meant not even if Armin admitted it would you be convinced?  There is no debate as to Simian's identity any longer with me...but there are others that don't believe.  Once Simian's identity was verified it was easy to see how his posts fit the known facts...made it much easier to move on."


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finngirl
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« Reply #1843 on: October 04, 2008, 11:41:54 PM »

it's been implied that Armin "confessed"

my question, again, is:
was his motive/agenda shared?

Who's agenda?  Simian's?  I am confused a little. Help me out. Thanks.

among other things, simian said:

a sexual motive did not figure into
Natalee's disappearance

ALE was competent/seeking truthful resolution

to successfully solve the case,
it would be necessary to ID the cool/crazy guy
and/or the 5th suspect w/ a false alibi

so ... did Armin's "admission"
include any elaboration as to why
he, as simian, chose to share the info above?

especially: why he was coy/not forthcoming
re the identity/identities of the cool/crazy guy and/or 5th suspect
while he was posting?

since that was a major component of his posts?

or did Armin's confimation simply consist of:
I posted using the nic simian.
period.
end of story.

?

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« Reply #1844 on: October 05, 2008, 07:59:24 AM »

it's been implied that Armin "confessed"

my question, again, is:
was his motive/agenda shared?

Who's agenda?  Simian's?  I am confused a little. Help me out. Thanks.

among other things, simian said:

a sexual motive did not figure into
Natalee's disappearance

ALE was competent/seeking truthful resolution

to successfully solve the case,
it would be necessary to ID the cool/crazy guy
and/or the 5th suspect w/ a false alibi

so ... did Armin's "admission"
include any elaboration as to why
he, as simian, chose to share the info above?

especially: why he was coy/not forthcoming
re the identity/identities of the cool/crazy guy and/or 5th suspect
while he was posting?

since that was a major component of his posts?

or did Armin's confirmation simply consist of:
I posted using the nic simian.
period.
end of story.

?





Has anyone tried to connect with him to get a clarification of things like the 5th and the "cool and crazy" guy?  I wonder if he would even communicate with us because of liability issues or fear of retaliation.  I would love to converse with him here in the S&S thread.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1845 on: October 05, 2008, 11:00:41 AM »

Simian made for a good distraction...he wanted to be part of things.  He came on SM trying to see what was being said about his own relative...Steve. When he first arrived he was just reading to see what everyone was talking about...that is all he intended at first.  Read his first few posts.  He is discussing what the other FP pagers are talking about about...the sex slavery angle and such.  Those posts are very benign in lending information of any kind.  It was not until his own relative became entangled in this mess that he began to speak up.  Simian's angry tone developed as soon as Steve Croes made that stupid confession that he saw Deepak...etc...etc.  For reasons I still do not understand, Steve introduced himself into the mess of the century. It was an agenda for Simian the entire time...he wanted the focus shifted to our 5th suspect...the responsible person in all this. The "other" person...I think it was just as much a distraction as some of Shango's crap.  The personas of Simian and Shango were on the FP posting for all the same reasons we are here posting. 

Think about this.  If one of us learns a juicy tidbit concerning this case and we make a post to that effect all of us jump right on it trying to decipher what the hidden meaning is and how it may impact this case.  There was more than one person that posted as Simian.  Anyone can go to the FP make a post and if the moderator okays it...it goes through.  Only when you look at the details can you tell they are not all the same person...or are they?  The only thing you have to go on are email addresses and IP locations.  Neither of which are completely accurate in accessing locations unless you happen to be the FBI or some other agency with that power...such as CIA...NSA...well, you get my drift.

None of us have any way of knowing if Simian or Shango did not email or IM another person information to post. For example:  If the person that is the real Shango is talking to a friend by email and they want information they have to be told to others, they know are reading a particular forum, they can email the information to this other person(s) and in turn they can post the information from their computer or to the FP using the same email or a different one and still have the information posted. IP's can be hidden and emails can be made up on the spot.  Moderators on the FP don't go around checking email addresses...that only happens when you register and on the FP of SM you do not have to register and provide a password, as far as I know, to post a comment.  The anonymity is guaranteed until someone gets your IP or email addy and begins to search and dig and check things out.

All of the candidates for Simian and Shango had the capability to post all over the place.  I know this because I have done it myself and I people have helped me do it.  I have experimented in many ways trying to determine these things.  I have been able to post on various blogs as another name...from another location...using a person's email that is not mine...and I have asked other people to post things for me with my information.  It can be done...it can be done sitting right next to another person and posting as two different people.  Until the person you suspect confesses that was them (given you trust their word enough to believe them) you have no way of knowing who is whom. 

The most important thing to remember about our Simian and Shango is that neither one of them ever said that Joran or the Kalpoes were responsible for Natalee's disappearance...that tells more than anything about who they are and what their agendas were.  Shango calls him a scapegoat and says he was not there in the end...Kalpoes didn't know what happened after they left. They want the 5th suspect and Dirty Hand to be responsible and not the 3 people last seen with Natalee.

 The bottom line is that it does not matter now...at least not until they find Natalee and that is not going to happen without someone coming forward with key information.  It now appears that even that is not enough any longer...ask yourself this...what if this new witness had come forward in the very beginning...the very first night would Natalee have been found and would anyone be in jail now?  I fully understand the reasons it did not happen.  ALE wasn't listening by their own choosing and the fear factor is so great on Aruba if you are not Dutch.  It is hard to clean up a mess when you are the one that made the mess and don't want it cleaned up in the first place.


All of the above is only my opinion...which makes no difference anyway.
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« Reply #1846 on: October 05, 2008, 03:16:34 PM »

Nice post, Lala's and a great explanation for those who don't understand how the IPs, email addresses, and open forum posting works.
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Poochy
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« Reply #1847 on: October 05, 2008, 07:02:39 PM »

Sorry to interrupt... but today I was stuck on Shango's "Even Flying Birds Sing".

While "Bird" could be Frances Ellen Byrd or Steve Croes (crow), I wasn't sure what Shango meant by 'flying bird'.

Then it dawned on me that Loon is also a type of bird - Vladir van Loon/Loen. And when Joran mentioned the banana boat...

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed I must feed the messengers.

I couldn't bring the quote over, but see Klass' post about van Loon here:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.1560

On this page Texasmom quoted from Beth's book:

Loving Natalee page 84-85
snips
The tips are coming in steadily all day...One tip in particular keeps resurfacing---that Jeep...One caller says the driver is known as Theodore.  Another says his name is Vader.  A well-known drug runner on the island drives a bright yellow Jeep pulling a trailer with a small rubber boat on the back...In the little dinghy is an old oil barrrel.  This is the most difficult tip for me to listen to so far, as the callers are saying that the barrel in the boat on the back of this Jeep is where Natalee was put so she could be taken out to sea and dumped...

On the way to the print shop to have the new "KIDNAPPED" posters printed Beth spots the yellow Jeep with a small boat on a trailer and a barrel in the dinghy.  It's parked at a pizza restaurant.  The cab driver confirms that "It's Vader's Jeep."  He very bad.  Very bad.....Beth has the driver pull up to the Jeep and rolls down her window.

Loving Natalee Page 86
"Before I can speak, he sees me and offers, "I'm sorry about Natalee."
   That's weird, and his statement takes me aback.  I haven't even introduced myself.  So I ask him if he knows where she is and explain that there are reports that she has been seen in his vehicle.
   He replies, "What about the gray Honda?  I thought they were looking into that."  And before I can answer he volunteers, "The Coast Guard has already searched my boat."



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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1848 on: October 05, 2008, 08:06:19 PM »

Sorry to interrupt... but today I was stuck on Shango's "Even Flying Birds Sing".

While "Bird" could be Frances Ellen Byrd or Steve Croes (crow), I wasn't sure what Shango meant by 'flying bird'.

Then it dawned on me that Loon is also a type of bird - Vladir van Loon/Loen. And when Joran mentioned the banana boat...

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed I must feed the messengers.

I couldn't bring the quote over, but see Klass' post about van Loon here:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.1560

On this page Texasmom quoted from Beth's book:

Loving Natalee page 84-85
snips
The tips are coming in steadily all day...One tip in particular keeps resurfacing---that Jeep...One caller says the driver is known as Theodore.  Another says his name is Vader.  A well-known drug runner on the island drives a bright yellow Jeep pulling a trailer with a small rubber boat on the back...In the little dinghy is an old oil barrrel.  This is the most difficult tip for me to listen to so far, as the callers are saying that the barrel in the boat on the back of this Jeep is where Natalee was put so she could be taken out to sea and dumped...

On the way to the print shop to have the new "KIDNAPPED" posters printed Beth spots the yellow Jeep with a small boat on a trailer and a barrel in the dinghy.  It's parked at a pizza restaurant.  The cab driver confirms that "It's Vader's Jeep."  He very bad.  Very bad.....Beth has the driver pull up to the Jeep and rolls down her window.

Loving Natalee Page 86
"Before I can speak, he sees me and offers, "I'm sorry about Natalee."
   That's weird, and his statement takes me aback.  I haven't even introduced myself.  So I ask him if he knows where she is and explain that there are reports that she has been seen in his vehicle.
   He replies, "What about the gray Honda?  I thought they were looking into that."  And before I can answer he volunteers, "The Coast Guard has already searched my boat."





Yes, that is Vadir van Loon.  He's a character for sure.  Just a reminder...Shango began posting in June...all the characters in the game were already in play...don't think Shango knew anything about Natalee's best friend FEB, but then again what would I know.  That is only my opinion.  One thing I will say is Beth felt the need to mention Loon for some reason...maybe because she too was led astray by those that had the opportunity.  Bondia was all to eager to give Loon up to us here...so I am thinking he's another red herring.
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Poochy
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« Reply #1849 on: October 05, 2008, 08:43:04 PM »

Sorry to interrupt... but today I was stuck on Shango's "Even Flying Birds Sing".

While "Bird" could be Frances Ellen Byrd or Steve Croes (crow), I wasn't sure what Shango meant by 'flying bird'.

Then it dawned on me that Loon is also a type of bird - Vladir van Loon/Loen. And when Joran mentioned the banana boat...

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:12 pm
Even Flying Birds Sing. If the key does not arrive tomorrow, that door to Eden will remain closed I must feed the messengers.

I couldn't bring the quote over, but see Klass' post about van Loon here:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1952.1560

On this page Texasmom quoted from Beth's book:

Loving Natalee page 84-85
snips
The tips are coming in steadily all day...One tip in particular keeps resurfacing---that Jeep...One caller says the driver is known as Theodore.  Another says his name is Vader.  A well-known drug runner on the island drives a bright yellow Jeep pulling a trailer with a small rubber boat on the back...In the little dinghy is an old oil barrrel.  This is the most difficult tip for me to listen to so far, as the callers are saying that the barrel in the boat on the back of this Jeep is where Natalee was put so she could be taken out to sea and dumped...

On the way to the print shop to have the new "KIDNAPPED" posters printed Beth spots the yellow Jeep with a small boat on a trailer and a barrel in the dinghy.  It's parked at a pizza restaurant.  The cab driver confirms that "It's Vader's Jeep."  He very bad.  Very bad.....Beth has the driver pull up to the Jeep and rolls down her window.

Loving Natalee Page 86
"Before I can speak, he sees me and offers, "I'm sorry about Natalee."
   That's weird, and his statement takes me aback.  I haven't even introduced myself.  So I ask him if he knows where she is and explain that there are reports that she has been seen in his vehicle.
   He replies, "What about the gray Honda?  I thought they were looking into that."  And before I can answer he volunteers, "The Coast Guard has already searched my boat."





Yes, that is Vadir van Loon.  He's a character for sure.  Just a reminder...Shango began posting in June...all the characters in the game were already in play...don't think Shango knew anything about Natalee's best friend FEB, but then again what would I know.  That is only my opinion.  One thing I will say is Beth felt the need to mention Loon for some reason...maybe because she too was led astray by those that had the opportunity.  Bondia was all to eager to give Loon up to us here...so I am thinking he's another red herring.

Then years later Joran tells Patrick about a guy (Daury) who helped him with the 'body' who had a banana boat. That's why I thought of this guy cuz he got the "rubber boat".

Anybody know if this one is still on the island or 'fled' off of it mid-June '05?
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« Reply #1850 on: October 05, 2008, 10:09:31 PM »

Borrowing this from Johan who just posted pics of Lorenzo's house via google earth on the Natalee main thread here:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3437.60

See the vertical 'path' in the upper top right side of this pic:



Is this pic that same 'straight path' as the road in the above pic leading out from Lorenzo's house to the ocean (and then from the ocean (which is not paved as it is water), continuing in a straight path directly to Santa Marta, Colombia either by plane, seaplane, helicoptor or boat)?



Merian Ernest   7/13/05 5:51 pm  Find Aruba. Find the Haystack. Find Santa Marta (COLOMBIA). Trace with your finger what the Antenna has spoken about. Unleash the dogs. Inch by inch…grid by grid.

Anybody know where this upaved path leads to? Lorenzo has a private club on his property. It was a small party and the host did not leave, or did he....!

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path to the house of Rave, while of gold bricks the road is not paved, answers mysterious lie within magical letters which spell sin XTC DNA .

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:46 pm
Shango said the key to the Hague did not exist. That door to eden remains closed until the house with the path But not of gold is entered

Simian Says: June 22nd, 2005 at 5:03 pm
The party-goers said the 5th one was with them. He was the host. How could he have left?

Simian Says: June 26th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Shock means well. He understands the Babylonians, but they don’t hold the hammer nor the block. The alibi needs to be broken. The party-goers need to be pressured. They have seen from the corners of their eyes. The house was dusted.

The only house I recall being 'dusted' was Lorenzo's. The Sloot main house was not dusted. Joran's apartment (which is NOT a house) was dusted, or checked out, but the 'main Sloot house' was not. 

Anybody know of a house that was dusted other than Lorenzo's?
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COLOMBO
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« Reply #1851 on: October 05, 2008, 10:15:51 PM »

Joran stayed behind

who switched places?
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finngirl
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« Reply #1852 on: October 06, 2008, 03:05:21 AM »

Lala's:

I'm glad that you verified what I told you last year
re how the posting system works on the FP
and other blogs which don't require registration:
how the system works/doesn't work
and how it can be manipulated

re IPs: the use of proxies must be considered
along w/ the accuracy of retrieval ...
since systems are what they are: not foolproof

interesting glitch that I've encountered (twice):
a previous poster's nic/email addy appearing
in the boxes I was required to fill in when posting =
my post appeared w/ their nic

I coulda continued posting w/ their info
for as long as I cared to

 Wink

when I read your recent post re Armin-as-simian:
"I suppose even a confession wouldn't convince you" ...
I took that to mean that Armin had confessed/admitted
and couldn't figure out how I'd missed that little gem!

now I understand that Armin-as-simian
was not a confession/an admission
but rather a product of deductive reasoning

not that there's anything wrong w/ that, LOL

(altho I remain among the unconvinced)

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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1853 on: October 06, 2008, 04:48:57 AM »

Finn...not Lala's, but wanted to add my 2 cents worth...

I came to my conlusions regarding Simian and Merian from the discussions starting on page 25 of the previous thread. Most of the discussions were posted by vms, Rob and Lala’s.

When I asked for clarification, vms explained how she got to Armin as Merian. I went to RWV and clicked on the link which gave his email addy. You can no longer do this.

From what I have been told, Merian posted in the Forum, and would have needed to register and submit an email addy. For some-one else to post as Merian they would have needed his password and for RWV and the FP his email addy. I understand that glitches can occur, but it appears that the same info would have to show up repeatedly. Same with a proxy IP…the poster would have to always use the same proxy IP as Simian for Klaas to have confirmed the Fake and Real Simian posts. As I have no clue about this, I would like to know if this is possible.

Rob made a connection to Armin to one of Simian’s posts. I have no idea if Rob, has followed this up further. I was hoping he would pop back in and give his own explanation to his earlier post that Armin is Simian.

Anyone with Info on Proxy IPs to share, it would be greatly appreciated!




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finngirl
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« Reply #1854 on: October 06, 2008, 05:51:10 AM »


Mum:

ah ha, thanks for the info re merian's addy ...
never was clear on how that was determined

had forgotten/didn't think about merian
posting in the forum

were any other codetalkers registered?

pressed for time at this ungodly hour
but real quickly ...

re the glitch I came across:
since another poster's nic/addy
was "provided" to me/it appeared on my screen
I would need only to jot it down/memorize it
to use it/type it in the required boxes next time

the info wouldn't need to keep re-appearing
in order for me to keep using it ...
I would "own" it once I had seen it

re IP proxies, I was told this:
depending on the software/? being used
the IPs will constantly/randomly rotate w/ each log-on
and never repeat, or

you will be given a "set" of IPs
and they will rotate in sequence each time you log on
or ... rotate periodically during each log-on session

the first option "guarantees"
that you never post from the same location twice

the second option offers the certainty
that from time to time your current location will match
a previous session's location ...
depending on how long your sessions last
and how long someone is pinging you

depends on which program you've purchased/downloaded

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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1855 on: October 06, 2008, 06:09:05 AM »

You are Welcome Finn...Thanks for the info on the Proxies...

Still can't make things fit...LOL

One thing that has been bothering me regarding Simian and his real posts. If Klaas verified them by his email addy and IP, which is my assumption, then I would be wrong about him posting from his workplace. The posts with the confrontation were in the wee hours...not sure that there would be access to a bank at that time. Of course, he may have been on vacation and posting from home...

I still think that Simian beginning to post on 6/17 had something to do with Steve Croes arrest. He resumes on 6/22 and just before 5PM starts with his 5th. suspect. Rumours were circulating around the islan on 6/22 that Steve Croes was the one that broke into the Fisherman's Huts...Coincidence?
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1856 on: October 06, 2008, 10:22:56 AM »

Lala's:

I'm glad that you verified what I told you last year
re how the posting system works on the FP
and other blogs which don't require registration:
how the system works/doesn't work
and how it can be manipulated

re IPs: the use of proxies must be considered
along w/ the accuracy of retrieval ...
since systems are what they are: not foolproof

interesting glitch that I've encountered (twice):
a previous poster's nic/email addy appearing
in the boxes I was required to fill in when posting =
my post appeared w/ their nic

I coulda continued posting w/ their info
for as long as I cared to

 Wink

when I read your recent post re Armin-as-simian:
"I suppose even a confession wouldn't convince you" ...
I took that to mean that Armin had confessed/admitted
and couldn't figure out how I'd missed that little gem!

now I understand that Armin-as-simian
was not a confession/an admission
but rather a product of deductive reasoning

not that there's anything wrong w/ that, LOL

(altho I remain among the unconvinced)



LOL...he did admit it..but I am not the person that found him and contacted him and I will not betray that trust to prove it. The person that did all the work and spent hours working on it should get all the credit.  I have every confidence that this person is telling the truth to me.  In fact, I have verified this information independently of this person recently from a reliable source.  We will continue to be at a stalemate on Simian/Merian's identity...but I know what I know and I am certain that the Simian that is considered the REAL Simian (meaning the IP and/or email are consistent) was and still is A.S. Once, I found this out and could verify it many things I also knew made a lot of sense.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1857 on: October 06, 2008, 10:26:48 AM »

I would also remind everyone a very reliable way to know who and where an IP is from would be to get the correct information from a legal agency...such as FBI, CIA, NSA, etc.  They can find out the truth where we can not. 

Maybe we should explore Shango's identity a little further?  I still want to know who Checkme is. 
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1858 on: October 06, 2008, 10:29:41 AM »

An FYI...on checking info on Proxy servers this morning, I found 2 that said that your IP would show up as theirs...I understood this to mean to consistently show up as theirs. And this would all be done anonymously, no inkling of a proxy!
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1859 on: October 06, 2008, 10:37:15 AM »

I would also remind everyone a very reliable way to know who and where an IP is from would be to get the correct information from a legal agency...such as FBI, CIA, NSA, etc.  They can find out the truth where we can not. 

Maybe we should explore Shango's identity a little further?  I still want to know who Checkme is. 


Shango...I am ready...LOL...Been rethinking and I am sure it is not as complicated to understand as we have made it! Just stuck on the Pinging and Pap!

Checkme...I am thinking on IFA or AHATA friend of Paulus or Anita. Need help though, I am still on 6/12 of the FP! Just hop forward a bit when I want to read something!
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