SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4

[Lala'sMom]

Thanks Poochy.  Then I am not as confused as I thought.  That is always a good thing with a dummy like myself.  Yes, I remember that part on the Tattoo.  You have cleared it up for me.

Now, let's talk about Dirty Hand.  I have spent countless hours on the Shango riddles and one thing I do know is nothing is concrete so when you think you have dirty hand it can change with the latest known info. LOL 

Let's say JM is indeed the person.  How does that fit with what we know?  Yes, he would walk in all places...yes, he would know who provided escort that night after K2 left. Both vander Straaten and JM fit this scenario.  Then again Shango says he walked with the fallen elder...that does not fit.  So you have things that fit and things that don't.  Oh let's not forget there are many dirty hands and one that is Arawak Dirty Hand which I think is  Rudy Croes. JMO. I base that on info given by Tylergal many moons ago.  She was convinced he was Dirty Hand and she had a very reasonable argument to support it.   So many great minds thinking here. I just love this thread....but then again, I think everyone knows that by now.

[Observer]

The video was obviously dubbed and edited and I suspect that was done by Chris Hodge..AKA Pietjezz

[Lala'sMom]

The video was obviously dubbed and edited and I suspect that was done by Chris Hodge..AKA Pietjezz

Yes, Obs and who had an office near the Race Junkies in Aruba?  The dead reporter with her hand in her pocket.

[Poochy]

Lala'sMom,

I can't grasp JM as DirtyHand. But I do see JM always ignoring what the codetalkers have to say, and always pointing a finger at Joran. If Joran was the 'delivery boy", then in that respect JM would be protecting someone else who took over after Joran delivered his little package. JM always found witnesses that spotted Joran and Kalpoes. He is like Beth not wanting to look elsewhere. Maybe they are right, and we and codetalkers are wrong ?

Here all the 'DirtyHand' posts I have:  (regardless how you spell it upper/lower case DdHh): w/my added comments in RED CAPS BELOW.

a.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from Babylon.  There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. Many teepees fall. No Wampum. Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice. Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed. Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace. Babylon owes the Arawaks!
(IMHO THERE WAS A "BABYLONIAN CARD" BEING HELD AT ANOTHER JAIL FACILITY - AND THEY CAN'T LET HIM 'SING' BECAUSE THE ONES HOLDING HIM ARE DIRTY ALSO. I BELIEVE THIS WAS THE 5TH SUSPECT - THE ONE WE NEVER HEARD ABOUT - THE SECRET ONE - NOT PAULUS OR LORENZO BUT A MYSTERY GUY).

b.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:50 pm
If Babylonian Card sings, all will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. We must have a sacrifice. Hide dirty hand. Light the fires!
(AND IF THIS BABYLONIAN CARD SINGS, ALL WILL FALL - SO GET JORAN AS THE SACRIFICE, AND HIDE DIRTY HAND)

c.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
If Babylonian card sings ALL will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. If cowboys stay, after the sacrifice, everyone see dirty hand. No Wampum, Many Moons. Light the fires.

d.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys. they go back to the fort with no loot.
(IF COWBOYS SEE DIRTY HAND, NOTE, NOT IF THEY 'HEAR DIRTY HAND'... ) SO WHO IS THIS BEING HELD?

e.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 m
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed.
[AGAIN, SHANGO REITERATES THAT THE CORRECT FOOD TO APPEASE EVERYBODY IS JORAN, THE SACRIFICE. THEY CANNOT REVEAL DIRTY HAND]

f.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians.  Every fort has bad cowboys.  If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick. [IF COPS TELL ABOUT THIS DIRTYHAND THEY ARE SECRETLY HOLDING - NOT GOOD] Arawaks and cowboys working well.  Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand.  But babylonians live in teepees too.  If the house of babylon is to remain erect, it must protect the babylonians who have lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time. babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public.  [NOBODY MUST KNOW ABOUT THE STORY OF DIRTYHAND - CANNOT BE MADE PUBLIC BUT MUST BE HIDDEN] Dirtyhand scares arawaks too.  the sacrifice will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and cowboys.  cowboys will leave without loot.

g.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat. Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden. [JORAN THE SACRIFICE WILL KEEP DIRTYHAND HIDDEN] Babylon scared of DirtyHand. Arawaks scared of DirtyHand. If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy. If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house [AGAIN, DIRTYHAND CANNOT BE DISCOVERED]

h.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House.
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered.[GODS OF COWBOYS = USA GOVT = CONDI RICE POSING W/BETH AND ALL THE FBI AGENTS ON ARUBA] But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous. [DIRTYHAND WILL NOT SING, JORAN WILL BE THE OFFERED SACRIFICE, AND DIRTYHAND WILL RETURN BACK TO BABYLON]

i.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame. The arawaks were worried about teepees and the cowboys. They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe! He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten [NOBODY INVITED DIRTYHAND TO COME ONTO ARUBA]

j.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:04 pm
If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten. [EVEN IF DIRTYHAND TALKS, JORAN WILL BE SACRIFICED] But there will be many more people at the feast, and the cowboys would resent the Arawaks for Babylons interference.

k.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed. The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons. DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home ….without the loot

l.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries.

m.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable.  DirtyHand is well known.  there will be a sacrifice.  the gods have been talking. the fires have been lit. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot that is why they are preparing the sacrifice All fear DirtyHand. Arawaks and Babylon. I must go feed the messengers

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]

o.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks want the truth to come out. As long as DirtyHand is not found. Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price. the gods know that the blame lies on Babylon. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot

p.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. [NOT A NATIVE TO ARUBA] The singing card can not be played. The cowboys would circle the wagons. The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice. light the fires. the gods are talking.

q.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve Babylon. not the elder. remember dirtyhand.

r.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. Many pioneers have settled with the tribe.

s.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played. if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation. [DIRTYHAND IS THE BABYLON CARD. IF DIRTYHAND TALKS THE ROYAL HOUSE WILL COME DOWN HARD ON ARUBA] the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made. Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles. cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood. The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response.

t.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified. the gods are talking. [THE FALLEN JUDGE IS PAULUS? WAS PAULUS A JUDGE WHEN SHANGO WROTE THIS? OR IS THE JUDGE DE WITT?]

u.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders. Babylon knows.

v.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left. [THIS IS WHAT DIRTYHAND KNOWS - AND CAN SING - THE NAMES OF THE BABYLONIANS (PLURAL) WHO ESCORTED NATALEE WHEN KALPOES LEFT]

w.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon? [THIS EXPLAINS WHO THE ELDERS ARE - FATHERS OF THE KIDS WHO FLED ARUBA] DirtyHand knows, this is his Power. there will be 46 sacrifices. [46 HOTELS WERE ON ARUBA AT THE TIME SHANGO WROTE THIS]

x.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin. The Arawaks know. The cowboys know. DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles. The Simian knows this

y.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake.

z.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. the girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon. But not to satiate desire.  [DIRTYHAND WAS PRESENT WHEN ALL THIS WENT DOWN AND IS AN EYE WITNESS]

aa.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders [CROMVORT SECURITY, ETC] and the founders of the houses of Babylon. [INTERESTING - FOUNDERS OF THE HOUSES OF BABYLON] Not the minions. DirtyHand knows this.

bb.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key. He walks with the elders. He walks in all houses. And he walked with the fallen elder. he was the hidden card that was played. now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

cc.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time. [DIRTYHAND IS UNDER THE ELDERS - HAS WORKED FOR THEM]

dd.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post  DirtyHand is alive.

ee.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

ff.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking

gg.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses. DirtyHand is the key. His reach is long. He walks in all circles. consort to all, except for the gods. He knows the sacrifice is not responsible

hh.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know the maze of the rave and the fly that entered the trap. DirtyHand is the key. He walks in many circles.

ii.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles. DirtyHand knows this. Children of the Elders play in the maze, but DirtyHand is afraid to rave

jj.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires deflowerings of forbidden fruits. DirtyHand knows. So does the elder. The lamb is a scapegoat.

kk.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze. He knows of the forbidden fruit and the gardeners.

ll.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions. but he has entered the maze. the lamb is a scapegoat. DirtyHand knows. So does the Elder.

mm.   Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe. Follow the music, the lions are not tame. DirtyHand knows, so does the elder.

nn.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze to play with lions but it was not a game. the lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze. why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions? The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation. The gods are talking

oo.   Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:39 am
The threadsurfers are opening the door to Babylon. be careful of the lions. DirtyHand does not have them tamed but he can enter the den. tell the cowboys.

pp.   Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

qq.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:13 pm
1. Lucy spoke at 10:56 # Lucy Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

[Observer]

The video was obviously dubbed and edited and I suspect that was done by Chris Hodge..AKA Pietjezz

Yes, Obs and who had an office near the Race Junkies in Aruba?  The dead reporter with her hand in her pocket.

I am not aware of a office,but I am aware of what this man has said in private and his relations with Ed Smith who filmed the video. Also,I am in contact with that reporters family,it was not her that hung herself with one hand in her pocket but it was her camera man Camilo. Her picture was the one with a bed spread over her on top of the wall. I have them all saved and have done as much research as I can without getting on the phone and calling people.

[Poochy]

The video was obviously dubbed and edited and I suspect that was done by Chris Hodge..AKA Pietjezz

Yes, Obs and who had an office near the Race Junkies in Aruba?  The dead reporter with her hand in her pocket.

I am not aware of a office,but I am aware of what this man has said in private and his relations with Ed Smith who filmed the video. Also,I am in contact with that reporters family,it was not her that hung herself with one hand in her pocket but it was her camera man Camilo. Her picture was the one with a bed spread over her on top of the wall. I have them all saved and have done as much research as I can without getting on the phone and calling people.

I know I pulled them off of the website www.aru-bay.com (see the archive http://www.archive.org/index.php ) when we were all informed they were there. There were many other aru-bay videos posted that were non-Natalee related. I grabbed them around the end of August 05. Mickey John's voice was there, so was his musical recording overlayed on the tape. I also heard about some folks contacting the site owner, but I don't know what became of it, nor know them personally. I was asked to do an in-depth analysis of each tape, which I did and handed over to a family member. A poster Chicago510 pulled them off also, which is why they were also know as the 'Chicago510 videos'.

[Lala'sMom]

FYI...Mum is fighting with her internet provider at the moment and can't answer or post her info. LOL  Seems living in the boonies has it's drawbacks.  She will be here as soon as she can to post the info as promised.

[Lala'sMom]

Well I am aware of an office...reliable source of info.  Lives there. Works in building next door.

[Poochy]

Can't find the aru-bay video with MJ's song, but here's the song being played on the coffeepotghost!

http://www.coffeepotghost.com/NATALEE_HOLLOWAY_CASE_index.html

[Observer]

Well I am aware of an office...reliable source of info.  Lives there. Works in building next door.

Who? Ed Smith?

[Poochy]

This is in reference to if Paulus was in fact a 'judge' when Shango wrote his prose, making him a 'fallen judge".
The article was dated Monday, June 27, 2005

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html

"...Two years ago Van der Sloot Ditch got the opportunity to become a judge. With his background that meant that he had follow a training course of three years. During that training period, he was appointed as a substitute judge in the Antillean court. Van der Sloot completed the training period of a year in the Netherlands recently but he has not conducted a court(hearing) yet. "

[SS]

Poochy - I have two questions for you...

1.  Is your beautiful dog a Bearded Collie?  I had the regular Collies for years.

2.  Where have you been all this time?  We can certainly use your help.

[SS]

This is in reference to if Paulus was in fact a 'judge' when Shango wrote his prose, making him a 'fallen judge".
The article was dated Monday, June 27, 2005

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/06/paul_van_der_sl_1.html

"...Two years ago Van der Sloot Ditch got the opportunity to become a judge. With his background that meant that he had follow a training course of three years. During that training period, he was appointed as a substitute judge in the Antillean court. Van der Sloot completed the training period of a year in the Netherlands recently but he has not conducted a court(hearing) yet. "

I had read that he went to Holland for three months to study for the exam, but in March, prior to Natalee's disappearance, he failed the exam.

[Lala'sMom]

Well I am aware of an office...reliable source of info.  Lives there. Works in building next door.

Who? Ed Smith?

Don't know Ed Smith...know of him, but not personally.  I also read about this office way back when...of course I couldn't find it now if my life depended on it. LOL  That is why I asked my source.  You know how sources are...some good...some bad.  Doesn't matter anyway.

[Poochy]

Poochy - I have two questions for you...

1.  Is your beautiful dog a Bearded Collie?  I had the regular Collies for years.

2.  Where have you been all this time?  We can certainly use your help.

SS - She's a Coton de Tulear, a cousin of the Bichon Frise. This is just a pic I got off the net. My baby is almost a year old and I'll upload a pic when I get a chance. The Coton's hair is just that - like one giant cotton ball and you have to keep up with it. In 3 years the cotton fur turns to real hair, a bit more manageable. Coton's are not akc registered here -- too afraid the puppy mills will get a hold of the breed as their hair doesn't shed, just like a Bichon. 

Where have I been? I've been trying to get into the cage,  that's where I've been LOL! Thanks to the help of some posters I can finally chat w/ya. Been reading and enjoying your posts for quite a while! It's so nice to chat and contribute all this "useless codetalker knowledge" I have compiled about this case w/regard to codetalkers.

[Lala'sMom]

Lala'sMom,

I can't grasp JM as DirtyHand. But I do see JM always ignoring what the codetalkers have to say, and always pointing a finger at Joran. If Joran was the 'delivery boy", then in that respect JM would be protecting someone else who took over after Joran delivered his little package. JM always found witnesses that spotted Joran and Kalpoes. He is like Beth not wanting to look elsewhere. Maybe they are right, and we and codetalkers are wrong ?

Here all the 'DirtyHand' posts I have:  (regardless how you spell it upper/lower case DdHh): w/my added comments in RED CAPS BELOW.

a.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm
Arawaks hold singing card from Babylon.  There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas. Arawaks can’t let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. Many teepees fall. No Wampum. Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice. Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed. Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace. Babylon owes the Arawaks!
(IMHO THERE WAS A "BABYLONIAN CARD" BEING HELD AT ANOTHER JAIL FACILITY - AND THEY CAN'T LET HIM 'SING' BECAUSE THE ONES HOLDING HIM ARE DIRTY ALSO. I BELIEVE THIS WAS THE 5TH SUSPECT - THE ONE WE NEVER HEARD ABOUT - THE SECRET ONE - NOT PAULUS OR LORENZO BUT A MYSTERY GUY). This would be Freddy, IMO.  He was arrested early on, several posters in Aruba stated that as fact and they were not just Julia and the likes. It was also on the radio and such. He was held somewhere and kept quiet.  Several think it is Steve Croes, but he wasn't arrested by then.  Only Freddy's name keeps popping up at this point with various sources and posters at that time.

b.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:50 pm
If Babylonian Card sings, all will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. We must have a sacrifice. Hide dirty hand. Light the fires!
(AND IF THIS BABYLONIAN CARD SINGS, ALL WILL FALL - SO GET JORAN AS THE SACRIFICE, AND HIDE DIRTY HAND) My contention is this person knew what happened that night because they were there...remember the alibi worked NOT for the Sloots.  "Who said the alibi worked for the Sloots?"

c.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
If Babylonian card sings ALL will fall. Teepees and the house of Babylon. If cowboys stay, after the sacrifice, everyone see dirty hand. No Wampum, Many Moons. Light the fires.

d.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:55 pm
If cowboys see dirty hand, many teepees fall. House of Babylon falls. we must have a sacrifice to feed the cowboys. they go back to the fort with no loot.
(IF COWBOYS SEE DIRTY HAND, NOTE, NOT IF THEY 'HEAR DIRTY HAND'... ) SO WHO IS THIS BEING HELD? Are you saying that this person being held is a dirty hand?  I have often thought that and I think Colombo thinks that as well.

e.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:32 m
The sacrifice is the correct food to appease the gods, arawaks, and cowboys but the foundations of the house of babylon will shake even harder if Arawak Dirty Hand is revealed.
[AGAIN, SHANGO REITERATES THAT THE CORRECT FOOD TO APPEASE EVERYBODY IS JORAN, THE SACRIFICE. THEY CANNOT REVEAL DIRTY HAND] Shango says that Joran is who they need to punish in order to make everyone happy.  He does not say he is the killer, he says he is a scapegoat.  That does not indicate pointing the finger at Joran as guilty. In fact, it tells me the opposite.  Shango did not think J2K were guilty of anything except delivering the girl.

f.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Every tribe has bad Indians.  Every fort has bad cowboys.  If sirens sing a poison song, all will get sick. [IF COPS TELL ABOUT THIS DIRTYHAND THEY ARE SECRETLY HOLDING - NOT GOOD] Arawaks and cowboys working well.  Arawaks fear wrath of cowboys for DirtyHand.  But babylonians live in teepees too.  If the house of babylon is to remain erect, it must protect the babylonians who have lived in teepees, among the arawaks, for a long time. babylon will agree to a sacrifice of newer teepee dwellers to prevent the story of dirtyhand being made public.  [NOBODY MUST KNOW ABOUT THE STORY OF DIRTYHAND - CANNOT BE MADE PUBLIC BUT MUST BE HIDDEN] Dirtyhand scares arawaks too.  the sacrifice will be the correct sacrifice to appease the gods and cowboys.  cowboys will leave without loot. DH would have to be someone we all know and it would blow the lid off everything.  Well, the corruption is being peeled away layer by layer now. Still thinking vander Straten, at the time of Shango posting, would have been the likley choice.

g.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:54 pm
The Arawaks are not going to sacrifice a scapegoat. Babylon needs to allow one sacrifice to keep DirtyHand hidden. [JORAN THE SACRIFICE WILL KEEP DIRTYHAND HIDDEN] Babylon scared of DirtyHand. Arawaks scared of DirtyHand. If sacrifice is made, teepees are safe, villagers and cowboys happy. If DirtyHand discovered, House of Babylon falls, Teepees crushed under great house [AGAIN, DIRTYHAND CANNOT BE DISCOVERED] Who ever is dirty hand would have to have had the ability to help Joran get a lighter sentence or time served in some way so as to prevent his being revealed.  Paulus could arrange that knowing who dirty hand was.

h.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House.
Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered.[GODS OF COWBOYS = USA GOVT = CONDI RICE POSING W/BETH AND ALL THE FBI AGENTS ON ARUBA] But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous. [DIRTYHAND WILL NOT SING, JORAN WILL BE THE OFFERED SACRIFICE, AND DIRTYHAND WILL RETURN BACK TO BABYLON]

i.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:02 pm
The babylonians are to blame. The arawaks were worried about teepees and the cowboys. They did not bring DirtyHand into the Tribe! He will go back to babylon broken, after the sacrifice is eaten [NOBODY INVITED DIRTYHAND TO COME ONTO ARUBA]

j.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:04 pm
If DirtyHand sings, sacrifice will still be eaten. [EVEN IF DIRTYHAND TALKS, JORAN WILL BE SACRIFICED] But there will be many more people at the feast, and the cowboys would resent the Arawaks for Babylons interference.  This tells me that Shango had an inkling that dirty hand might be found out and have to talk.  It would not matter by this time on June 26 because Joran would still pay the price.  That always gives me pause, because Shango sounds almost sorry that Joran would be punished.

k.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist. doors to eden remain closed. The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty. Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand. If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons. DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon. Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home ….without the loot

l.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:19 pm
There are many DirtyHands among the Arawak, and so it has been for centuries. These are the corrupt officials that have held Aruba in its grip for so long...that includes mafia connections also.

m.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 6:28 pm
All preceding stated is verifiable.  DirtyHand is well known.  there will be a sacrifice.  the gods have been talking. the fires have been lit. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot that is why they are preparing the sacrifice All fear DirtyHand. Arawaks and Babylon. I must go feed the messengers Shango says that all we need to do is check it out...it's all there to find out. We never looked in the right directions at the time.  Seemed too far fetched,now it's too late to retrieve some of this info from back then.

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?] Who said they thought Dirty Hand was sick?  I never have seen that in the posts in context.  I must have missed it.

o.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks want the truth to come out. As long as DirtyHand is not found. Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price. the gods know that the blame lies on Babylon. the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot

p.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. [NOT A NATIVE TO ARUBA] The singing card can not be played. The cowboys would circle the wagons. The arawaks are preparing the sacrifice. light the fires. the gods are talking.

q.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve Babylon. not the elder. remember dirtyhand.

r.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:35 pm
DirtyHand is not an Arawak. Many pioneers have settled with the tribe.

s.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played. if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation. [DIRTYHAND IS THE BABYLON CARD. IF DIRTYHAND TALKS THE ROYAL HOUSE WILL COME DOWN HARD ON ARUBA] the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made. Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles. cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood. The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response.

t.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified. the gods are talking. [THE FALLEN JUDGE IS PAULUS? WAS PAULUS A JUDGE WHEN SHANGO WROTE THIS? OR IS THE JUDGE DE WITT?] Paulus would be the fallen judge as well as the fallen elder.  I think Shango interchanged his terms here.  Actually, it could have been someone else that posted as Shango at the time and didn't use the same terminology as the first Shango or knew him as a judge and subliminally let it slip.

u.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
DirtyHand walks with the elders. Babylon knows.

v.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left. [THIS IS WHAT DIRTYHAND KNOWS - AND CAN SING - THE NAMES OF THE BABYLONIANS (PLURAL) WHO ESCORTED NATALEE WHEN KALPOES LEFT]

w.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Are the children of the elders there, or did they flee to Babylon? [THIS EXPLAINS WHO THE ELDERS ARE - FATHERS OF THE KIDS WHO FLED ARUBA] DirtyHand knows, this is his Power. there will be 46 sacrifices. [46 HOTELS WERE ON ARUBA AT THE TIME SHANGO WROTE THIS]

x.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:16 pm
Mary was not a Virgin. The Arawaks know. The cowboys know. DirtyHand can break the Alibi, he walks all circles. The Simian knows this

y.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake.

z.   Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon. the girl knew this. Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon. But not to satiate desire.  [DIRTYHAND WAS PRESENT WHEN ALL THIS WENT DOWN AND IS AN EYE WITNESS]

aa.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders [CROMVORT SECURITY, ETC] and the founders of the houses of Babylon. [INTERESTING - FOUNDERS OF THE HOUSES OF BABYLON] Not the minions. DirtyHand knows this.

bb.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key. He walks with the elders. He walks in all houses. And he walked with the fallen elder. he was the hidden card that was played. now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

cc.   Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time. [DIRTYHAND IS UNDER THE ELDERS - HAS WORKED FOR THEM]

dd.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post  DirtyHand is alive.

ee.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

ff.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking

gg.   Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:59 pm
DirtyHand can bring down all houses. DirtyHand is the key. His reach is long. He walks in all circles. consort to all, except for the gods. He knows the sacrifice is not responsible

hh.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
The dice throwers know the maze of the rave and the fly that entered the trap. DirtyHand is the key. He walks in many circles.

ii.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:09 pm
Young Babylonians and Shivas do not build sand castles. DirtyHand knows this. Children of the Elders play in the maze, but DirtyHand is afraid to rave

jj.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires deflowerings of forbidden fruits. DirtyHand knows. So does the elder. The lamb is a scapegoat.

kk.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
DirtyHand has walked through the maze. He knows of the forbidden fruit and the gardeners.

ll.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:18 pm
DirtyHand does not play with the lions. but he has entered the maze. the lamb is a scapegoat. DirtyHand knows. So does the Elder.

mm.   Shango Says:June 27th, 2005 at 11:26 pm
The Arawaks will not enter the maze unless the cowboys refuse the peace pipe. Follow the music, the lions are not tame. DirtyHand knows, so does the elder.

nn.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
Mary rolled into the maze to play with lions but it was not a game. the lamb ran bleating afraid to walk through the maze. why don’t the arawaks ambush the lions? The cowboys don’t know.
DirtyHand knows, but is afraid of the Arawak Nation. The gods are talking

oo.   Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 12:39 am
The threadsurfers are opening the door to Babylon. be careful of the lions. DirtyHand does not have them tamed but he can enter the den. tell the cowboys.

pp.   Shango Says: June 28th, 2005 at 2:59 am
The Simian Doppleganger is upset because the arawak nation is hiding the truth from the cowboys. DirtyHand knows. Simian knows. The Simian stated for 2 days, the key would come from the hague the next day. Shango said no two times. Is Simian a DirtyHand too. Has the Simian played with the lions in the houses of ill-repute and poison notes where the innocent flies are lured? Has the Simian, primate that he is, fed with the other animals? Back ye fetid mongrel, as the 46th are you; delegate of the 7th level of inferno, not birthed, but spewed from the dark chasm of a nightmare!

qq.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 11:13 pm
1. Lucy spoke at 10:56 # Lucy Says: June 27th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
Someone said last night that Dirty Hand was somebody in the police.

Not to sound snooty here, but I have seen this version before.  I bet it was your work then too. You would have to be a Codetalker to be able to jump right in like this.  I am glad you are here. Where have you been? LOL I do however have a few things I don't agree with, but overall goes with what I know to be reasonably accurate.  I wrote my answers in blue.  Thanks for the discussion...it's been a while in here that we took it piece by piece.  Now, have you read Caps interpretation?

[Poochy]

Lala'sMom,

I compiled the original 122 page word document 'Categorized Codetalkers' - It was from that word doc I cut and pasted DirtyHand. If you want a copy of that word doc IM me w/your email address (can we do that on this board??).
I put that together for the Holloways a while back.
 
I like your input (in blue). It all makes for a great discussion. I know you took it apart cuz I've been reading all about it on this thread! And no, I don't think I saw CapsLW's interpretation. Got a link?

The 'Dan in Tx' version that unfortunately Dave H. quoted in his book always bothered me and it's nice to see others thinking outside of the box.

So Freddy is the 5th suspect. But wasn't the 5th supposed to be the b'friend from earlier in the week?

[Poochy]

Lala'sMom -

regarding this :

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?] Who said they thought Dirty Hand was sick?  I never have seen that in the posts in context.  I must have missed it.

I felt that when Shango wrote "DirtyHand is alive and well." it meant that Dirtyhand is not sick and then presumed to be dead, but is well (not sick) and quite alive (not dead). Like F. Castro - we were told he was sick and then dying on the news... maybe someone in the news like that, but is very much well, very much alive and hiding out (some Lions don't leave their den).
 

[Poochy]

Lala'sMom -

regarding this :

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?] Who said they thought Dirty Hand was sick?  I never have seen that in the posts in context.  I must have missed it.

I felt that when Shango wrote "DirtyHand is alive and well." it meant that Dirtyhand is not sick and then presumed to be dead, but is well (not sick) and quite alive (not dead). Like F. Castro - we were told he was sick and then dying on the news... maybe someone in the news like that, but is very much well, very much alive and hiding out (some Lions don't leave their den).
 

Here's some DH info I cannot take credit for that I want to add to this thread. I was on a private site a while ago when this was posted. It goes to show you we can play with these word puzzles until we are blue in the face!


DirtyHand = Bin Laden - as in Honey LADEN notes.
The Gods of the cowboys (white house) know a game was played
Bin L. smuggling arms into Aruba for Colombia  (all the Gamblers were up in ARMS)...
Hidden in Plainview (shipped out in Aloe product containers-Posnr owns Plainview Aloe, right?)
What is the real export of the island? ARMS. Gamblers are up in ARMS.
DirtyHand cannot be known, must remain hidden. Cripes who would vacation on Aruba!
Condi Rice is now involved...the pic of her and Beth was meant to warn someone!
Babylonian Card knows cronies of DirtyHand Bin L.
Nobody invited DirtyHand to come to Aruba.

Now somebody like Bin L. would make me flee off of Aruba!


 

[SS]

Would someone please tell George Bush that we're looking in the wrong place?