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Author Topic: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4  (Read 634526 times)
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #340 on: June 24, 2008, 09:14:27 AM »

From all these things, I wonder if Ben Vocking could be tied to "Dirty Hand"? 

He seems to be a part of this case, and rarely seen.  What were his movements in June? 

Is he related to any suspect or witnesses? 



We talked about him a while back.  He's tight with Paulass and I think he goes by the name Ben King now.  We also talked about a Judge named Dueterkom (sp?) who never has his picture taken.




Thanks Blonde...I believe that ******* has corrected the Aruban Who's Who with this pic....I would hate to go back and reread both those discussions again to make sure we had the right guy! LOL
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« Reply #341 on: June 24, 2008, 09:36:51 AM »

Ben King...again.  King fits the description that Shango gave of Dirty Hand walking with the fallen elder.  He is the only one besides Straten that was actually seen with Paulus.  I don't think Shango was as cryptic as some think...anyone that has read my posts already knows this...Shango was talking to people that knew who he was and some that didn't, but he was either misdirecting or giving information which is debatable. I think if Shango says he walked with the elder he means he was there with Paulus.  If Shango says he walks in all houses then he would be the person able to know everything that goes on in Aruba.  Yes, I believe Shango was cryptic to some degree, but I think everyone, myself included, tends to over analyze the details.  How can you tell a tale and no one understand what you mean and still get your point across to those reading?  Why make it so hard to understand that you are never recognized for what you have accomplished.  Shango had an ego...that is important.
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« Reply #342 on: June 24, 2008, 09:40:10 AM »




Thanks Blonde...I believe that ******* has corrected the Aruban Who's Who with this pic....I would hate to go back and reread both those discussions again to make sure we had the right guy! LOL
[/quote]

Hi Mum, yes! this is the correct picture. That is my screen shot from the DeVries Crime show. That is Ben Voc / King.
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« Reply #343 on: June 24, 2008, 09:49:48 AM »

Ben King...again.  King fits the description that Shango gave of Dirty Hand walking with the fallen elder.  He is the only one besides Straten that was actually seen with Paulus.  I don't think Shango was as cryptic as some think...anyone that has read my posts already knows this...Shango was talking to people that knew who he was and some that didn't, but he was either misdirecting or giving information which is debatable. I think if Shango says he walked with the elder he means he was there with Paulus.  If Shango says he walks in all houses then he would be the person able to know everything that goes on in Aruba.  Yes, I believe Shango was cryptic to some degree, but I think everyone, myself included, tends to over analyze the details.  How can you tell a tale and no one understand what you mean and still get your point across to those reading?  Why make it so hard to understand that you are never recognized for what you have accomplished.  Shango had an ego...that is important.


Walks in all houses...courthouse, jailhouse, Sloot's house, I believe Caps mentioned whorehouses...only other one I can think of is The House of the Lord...and that would take us back to the other Ben Vocking...LOL
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Poochy
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« Reply #344 on: June 24, 2008, 09:50:48 AM »

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]

I noticed this one particular excerpt from Poochy (welcome by the way) and could only think of one thing. Dirty Hand faked his death. On Aruba this could be accomplished quite easily. We all know that autopsy are hardly reliable. Dirty Hand was considered dead before Natalee went to Aruba.

He was dead and discovered to be alive. Was arrested and the ALE / Prosecutor's office decided it was better he REMAINS DEAD. Shango tells us that this particular Dirty Hand is not dead. A heads up if you will.

There have been many Dirty Hands - this one bowed out before he was caught and possibly sent to jail. He never stopped doing what it is he does, but was not considered a suspect because others thought he had met his demise.

- jmo -

Rob, hey thanks for the welcome! Let me toss this one out...could the references of Babylon actually refer to the modern country that it is today? Since Aruba is a trampoline island for drugs, could it also be for arms to VZ, CO or MX (gamblers are up in arms)? FBI was crawling all over Aruba, so were Dutch F-16 fighter jets on July 3 and their infra-red cameras. But as we saw FBI has no jurisdiction in Aruba, per se. Arawaks (Aruba natives) afraid of DirtyHand. Babylonians afraid of DirtyHand...and DirtyHand returned to Babylon, broken, but annonymous.

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MumInOhio
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« Reply #345 on: June 24, 2008, 09:53:42 AM »




Thanks Blonde...I believe that ******* has corrected the Aruban Who's Who with this pic....I would hate to go back and reread both those discussions again to make sure we had the right guy! LOL

Hi Mum, yes! this is the correct picture. That is my screen shot from the DeVries Crime show. That is Ben Voc / King.
[/quote]


Thanks Rob...that was the one thing that made it the right one for me when we were discussing this a couple of months back...that De Vries must have named the right guy! I believe vms made that point, and most agreed.
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« Reply #346 on: June 24, 2008, 09:59:06 AM »

Ben King...again.  King fits the description that Shango gave of Dirty Hand walking with the fallen elder.  He is the only one besides Straten that was actually seen with Paulus.  I don't think Shango was as cryptic as some think...anyone that has read my posts already knows this...Shango was talking to people that knew who he was and some that didn't, but he was either misdirecting or giving information which is debatable. I think if Shango says he walked with the elder he means he was there with Paulus.  If Shango says he walks in all houses then he would be the person able to know everything that goes on in Aruba.  Yes, I believe Shango was cryptic to some degree, but I think everyone, myself included, tends to over analyze the details.  How can you tell a tale and no one understand what you mean and still get your point across to those reading?  Why make it so hard to understand that you are never recognized for what you have accomplished.  Shango had an ego...that is important.

Why does everyone assume that the fallen elder is paulus ???-- He doesn't look very "fallen" to me -- lucrative law practice, money, privs, etc....

I have always felt that the fallen elder was Beticoe Croes -- the leader -- "fallen" in many clultures means "dead" -- "elder" in many cultures means "respected older one" ---

I have always felt that Shango was talking about someone who knew and possibly worked -- most certainly associated with "the elder" Beticoe Croes...
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« Reply #347 on: June 24, 2008, 10:14:27 AM »

Ben King...again.  King fits the description that Shango gave of Dirty Hand walking with the fallen elder.  He is the only one besides Straten that was actually seen with Paulus.  I don't think Shango was as cryptic as some think...anyone that has read my posts already knows this...Shango was talking to people that knew who he was and some that didn't, but he was either misdirecting or giving information which is debatable. I think if Shango says he walked with the elder he means he was there with Paulus.  If Shango says he walks in all houses then he would be the person able to know everything that goes on in Aruba.  Yes, I believe Shango was cryptic to some degree, but I think everyone, myself included, tends to over analyze the details.  How can you tell a tale and no one understand what you mean and still get your point across to those reading?  Why make it so hard to understand that you are never recognized for what you have accomplished.  Shango had an ego...that is important.

Why does everyone assume that the fallen elder is paulus ???-- He doesn't look very "fallen" to me -- lucrative law practice, money, privs, etc....

I have always felt that the fallen elder was Beticoe Croes -- the leader -- "fallen" in many clultures means "dead" -- "elder" in many cultures means "respected older one" ---

I have always felt that Shango was talking about someone who knew and possibly worked -- most certainly associated with "the elder" Beticoe Croes...

Hi Silverfox....we would have to go back a while for info on that...Do you have any thoughts on his so called accident. IIRC another car was seen leaving the scene. I have seen Hendrick's name associated with this...I think he is worse than Rudy....seems to stay under the radar, around here at least!
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Poochy
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« Reply #348 on: June 24, 2008, 10:21:11 AM »

n.   Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 8:04 pm
The young Lamb der Sloot shall be the sacrifice for the Arawaks and the cowboys. All will sit around the fire and feast on scapegoat. The gods are talking. DirtyHand is alive and well. [SO WHO IS THIS DIRTYHAND WHO WAS TO BE PRESUMED SICK AND THEN DEAD, BUT IS ALIVE AND WELL?]

I noticed this one particular excerpt from Poochy (welcome by the way) and could only think of one thing. Dirty Hand faked his death. On Aruba this could be accomplished quite easily. We all know that autopsy are hardly reliable. Dirty Hand was considered dead before Natalee went to Aruba.

He was dead and discovered to be alive. Was arrested and the ALE / Prosecutor's office decided it was better he REMAINS DEAD. Shango tells us that this particular Dirty Hand is not dead. A heads up if you will.

There have been many Dirty Hands - this one bowed out before he was caught and possibly sent to jail. He never stopped doing what it is he does, but was not considered a suspect because others thought he had met his demise.

- jmo -

Rob, hey thanks for the welcome! Let me toss this one out...could the references of Babylon actually refer to the modern country that it is today? Since Aruba is a trampoline island for drugs, could it also be for arms to VZ, CO or MX (gamblers are up in arms)? FBI was crawling all over Aruba, so were Dutch F-16 fighter jets on July 3 and their infra-red cameras. But as we saw FBI has no jurisdiction in Aruba, per se. Arawaks (Aruba natives) afraid of DirtyHand. Babylonians afraid of DirtyHand...and DirtyHand returned to Babylon, broken, but annonymous.


DirtyHand, IMHO, is someone ruthless, untouchable, and scares the heck out of everyone- someone who either writes Black Notes and/or is a practicing Muslim who's left hand is referred to as 'dirty hand'

This post was written in references to SHussain holding the Koran "...how can he hold such a Precious Holy Book in his dirty hand! and his left hand too! arggg ".   (ref found at http://www.shiachat.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t234915869.html )

There are many who think SHussain is still 'alive and well' because he had many imposters.  http://stargods.org/SaddamsImposter.htm  I for one don't know what to beleive anymore.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Arawaks want to make cowboys happy. Babylonians want to maintain integrity of Great House. Gods of the cowboys know there was a game in the great house, and so DirtyHand was discovered. But the sacrifice will be offered before dirty hand sings. He will return to babylon, broken but anonymous.
 



Hey - like I said earlier - just tossin' it out there for interesting discussion!


 
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« Reply #349 on: June 24, 2008, 10:22:26 AM »

Mum, I remember reading clear back in '05 -- I think in in RWV, that the BC accident was really an assassination... but who knows?

But in this context if This is what Shango was telling us -- Dirty hand would be older, and perhaps under the radar, but someone who knew and worked with Beticoe, perhaps on the sovereignty issue -- high enough and respected enough to be instantly recognized as a respected public figure (maybe even retired) on the island -- but not necessarily of the the island.  perhaps someone with good research skills could run an association investigation into the associates of Beticoe when he was the "elder" and alive and see if any of the names match up with what we now know?

The reason I don't believe it was paulus was this was much too early (June 25) in the investigation to consider him "fallen" because of the arrest --- too premature for someone to consider him yet fallen, and, the evidence seems to reveal he is not "fallen" but perhaps even more powerful than before....

I believe that Dirty Hand, who ever he might be -- was either there at the scene or his son, or grandson -- or blood relative was there and this is enough for everyone to scamper around whimpering ...
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« Reply #350 on: June 24, 2008, 10:32:50 AM »

Maybe this?

Quote
Hendrik Croes - a brother of the island's legendary leader, the late Betico Croes who guided Aruba to its semi-independent status in the Dutch realm - is one of the leading political figures on the island. He led several election campaigns for the MEP, now in the opposition. The Croes Family has been accused of ties with Cuntrera-Caruana. The Sicilian mafiosi payed for a trip of another brother, Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government) as party secretary to a meeting of the Socialist International in Turkey. This has not been denied.

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php
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« Reply #351 on: June 24, 2008, 10:36:17 AM »

Shango Says:June 27th , 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder. The gods are talking.

Back to Royalty again:

CONSORT =

con·sort (knsôrt)
n.
1. A husband or wife, especially the spouse of a monarch.
2. A companion or partner.
3. A ship accompanying another in travel.
4. Partnership; association: governed in consort with her advisers.
5. A group; a company: a consort of fellow diplomats.
6. Music
a. An instrumental ensemble.
b. An ensemble using instruments of the same family.
v. (kn-sôrt) con·sort·ed, con·sort·ing, con·sorts
v.intr.
1. To keep company; associate: a politician known to consort with gangsters.
2. To be in accord or agreement.
v.tr.
1. To unite in company; associate.
2. Obsolete
a. To escort; accompany.
b. To espouse.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English, colleague, from Old French, from Latin cnsors, cnsort- : com-, com- + sors, fate; see ser-2 in Indo-European roots.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
consort
Verb
consort with to keep company with
Noun
1. a husband or wife of a reigning monarch
2. a small group of voices or instruments [Latin consors partner]
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consort a number of people consorting together or in a company; a company or set of musicians; an assembly; a divan or consultation—Johnson, 1755.
Examples: consort of authors, 1654; of bird calls, 1711; of birds, 1712; of fiddlers, 1656; of knavery, 1598; of musical instruments; of musicians, 1616; of parasites, 1702; of plaudits, 1667; of praise, 1705; of ships [sailing together], 1591; of viols, 1883; of virgins, 1604.
Dictionary of Collective Nouns and Group Terms. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.
ThesaurusLegend:  Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1. consort - the husband or wife of a reigning monarch
prince consort - a prince who is the husband of a reigning female sovereign
better half, married person, partner, spouse, mate - a person's partner in marriage
 2. consort - a family of similar musical instrument playing together choir
set - a group of things of the same kind that belong together and are so used; "a set of books"; "a set of golf clubs"; "a set of teeth"
Verb 1. consort - keep company with; hang out with; "He associates with strange people"; "She affiliates with her colleagues"
affiliate, assort, associate
interact - act together or towards others or with others; "He should interact more with his colleagues"
ally - become an ally or associate, as by a treaty or marriage; "He allied himself with the Communists"
go steady, date, go out, see - date regularly; have a steady relationship with; "Did you know that she is seeing an older man?"; "He is dating his former wife again!"
companion, company, keep company, accompany - be a companion to somebody
 2. consort - go together; "The colors don't harmonize"; "Their ideas concorded"
concord, fit in, harmonise, harmonize, accord, agree
correspond, gibe, jibe, match, tally, agree, fit, check - be compatible, similar or consistent; coincide in their characteristics; "The two stories don't agree in many details"; "The handwriting checks with the signature on the check"; "The suspect's fingerprints don't match those on the gun"
correspond, gibe, jibe, match, tally, agree, fit, check - be compatible, similar or consistent; coincide in their characteristics; "The two stories don't agree in many details"; "The handwriting checks with the signature on the check"; "The suspect's fingerprints don't match those on the gun"
blend in, blend, go - blend or harmonize; "This flavor will blend with those in your dish"; "This sofa won't go with the chairs"
 3. consort - keep company; "the heifers run with the bulls to produce offspring"
run
 






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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #352 on: June 24, 2008, 10:47:49 AM »

Fine!  The fallen elder is not Paulus...Merian referred to him as the same...so I guess I am mistaken. To me, it is the only thing that fits at this point.  In context he was referenced as a failed judge, so when Shango said elder, at that point in time, which would be in June...Paulus was the person everyone was talking about on the FP comments.  Merian used the term also...so again...I am using the plain and simple version because Shango was speaking to posters from all over the world on the FP.  Remember Shango is the one that mentions the elders and how they run things on the island.  Simian began to use Shango's terms such as the difference between Sumerians and Arawaks. Obviously I am mistaken here but that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it for the time being.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 4:29 pm
There will be sacrifice
Tribal elders worried
Bad wampum, many moons
Light the fires


Shango Says:June 26th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
Coverups begin with elders and the founders of the houses of Babylon
Not the minions
DirtyHand knows this

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time


Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking [/i]


Merian Ernest Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject: Tuesdays have no character
All along the guards cried. The checkmate was a joke. The boy is a foul mouthed fool.

The elder drags his feet on the pavement. A shadow of his former self. The keys to the
palace have been taken from him, yet he still remembers the passage ways.

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« Reply #353 on: June 24, 2008, 10:52:12 AM »

Maybe this?

Quote
Hendrik Croes - a brother of the island's legendary leader, the late Betico Croes who guided Aruba to its semi-independent status in the Dutch realm - is one of the leading political figures on the island. He led several election campaigns for the MEP, now in the opposition. The Croes Family has been accused of ties with Cuntrera-Caruana. The Sicilian mafiosi payed for a trip of another brother, Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government) as party secretary to a meeting of the Socialist International in Turkey. This has not been denied.

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/10/harrytho_1017_e.php


Perhaps this is Dirty Hand.... Notice the Thailand Connection?  Notice he is still at large? (Unless someone has an update)

Quote
The 52-year old Alfonso Caruana is the living example of the international ramifications, elusiveness and continuity of the family's activities. Although a fugitive, he remains one of the top level Family bosses. The fact he is married to Giuseppina Caruana, the daughter of Family patriarch Giuseppe Caruana (brother of Alfonso's father Carmelo Caruana) the eldest of the foregoing generation, is an indication to be taken seriously in the archaic conventions which rule the internal dynamics of the clan. (86)

In 1968 he arrived in Canada with 100 dollar in his pocket pretending to be an electrician. Ten years later he was stopped at the international airport of Zürich in Switzerland with 600,000 dollar in a suitcase. He was released after paying a fee. At the beginning of the 1980s Alfonso established himself near Lugano in a luxurious villa, supervising the laundering of dollar-deposits at Canadian banks channelled through Swiss accounts. Two years later he moved to the stockbrokers belt near London. From his £450,000 mansion, driving around in his BMW 732i or Mercedes 500 SEL, he supervised a heroin pipeline from Thailand, through England, to Canada. He went to Thailand to set up the route. When the pipeline was dismantled in England, he managed to escape arrest, moving to a Montreal suburb where he opened a pizzeria. Alfonso prepared the pizzas while his wife tended the pay-desk.

At the time Alfonso Caruana was already high on the most-wanted list because, according a high-placed Italian police official, "he was the one who knew most about Mafia finances." (87) When the Canadian tax-man moved in (alerted by the police who were unable to indict him) he left for Caracas, ignoring the 827,962 Canadian dollars the tax collector had seized. Law enforcement lost his traces. He is still at large, despite his conviction to 20 years' imprisonment by the Palermo Court.

Although he is subject to an international arrest warrant, Italian police in 1996 did not have his snap-shot and did not know if he was still alive. According to some he is moving around in Venezuela or Colombia; according to others he is in Aruba or Curaçao

He sure fits the Shango description, does he not?  His connections are also tied to the Holiday Inn...and also a Canadian connection (remember the cartoon?)

http://www.s1on1.com/main/index.cgi/000000A/http/www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml?page=archives_tblick_aruba



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« Reply #354 on: June 24, 2008, 11:07:59 AM »

I too believe Betico was assassinated. I wrote about it on my blog, so I'm aware of what took place. The info I gathered is the usual run of the mill stuff that most have also read. That's what is available in English.

So, let's just speculate that Betico was indeed assassinated. Who would be motivated? That's the first question. Who benefits when Betico is gone? Oduber does. We know that, but that's the public end. Who benefits on the underworld end?

Removing Betico from the public scene could help the Cuntera's or other mob related interests. Do we know whether there was anything that put Betico and the Mob at odds? I'm not sure I have seen anything, and one other thing makes me wonder...-> why would the mob kill Betico when he removes Holland from the picture in a lot of areas? He makes it easier to move drugs and launder money. So, if that's true, maybe it's not the mob that kills Betico, but someone in the opposition that wanted him dead for REMOVING HOLLAND. Maybe the Babylonians killed Betico?

 
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« Reply #355 on: June 24, 2008, 11:14:06 AM »

According to Caps, Dirty Hand is the guy whose name I will never spell correctly...Deutkom or whatever.  I don't know enough about him to explain his reasoning...in fact...I doubt the FP posters had ever heard of him when Shango was posting...so once again...context is everything...but only in my book.   Rolling Eyes
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« Reply #356 on: June 24, 2008, 11:19:56 AM »

Rob - there was a rumor that a certain family was involved in the accident.

Mum and LaLa's - who knows, maybe Julia Renfro could even be Dirty Hand.    Just like JM, her newspaper goes to all houses.  Who has been a consort to the fallen elder?     Check the party-goers.  Oh, and Regnad is here.
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« Reply #357 on: June 24, 2008, 11:33:49 AM »

Rob - there was a rumor that a certain family was involved in the accident.

Mum and LaLa's - who knows, maybe Julia Renfro could even be Dirty Hand.    Just like JM, her newspaper goes to all houses.  Who has been a consort to the fallen elder?     Check the party-goers.  Oh, and Regnad is here.

That darn Regnad!  He really should move on. Rolling Eyes
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« Reply #358 on: June 24, 2008, 11:37:55 AM »

And lest I stir another controversy?  There are other newspapers that go in all houses and are read by the locals.  Didn't call any names, but Regnad beware!
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« Reply #359 on: June 24, 2008, 11:52:56 AM »

And lest I stir another controversy?  There are other newspapers that go in all houses and are read by the locals.  Didn't call any names, but Regnad beware!


LOL

SS...my notes that I found while checking out Damilice Mansur...not her's...too much to post right now...Some-one on Damilices friend's list has Jc Jr as a friend and can't find it in my notes...here are some interesting connections...as Lala's said ... they all know each other...

Lalo Croes

Lalo Croes | FacebookNizana Solognier · Damilice Mansur Damilice Mansur
· Desiree Coronel Desiree Coronel · Dana Ber Dana Ber · Armin E.
Solognier Armin E. Solognier ...
www.facebook.com/people/Lalo_Croes/608906702 - 17k - Cached - Similar
pages

Well Lalo Croes is married to Michael Saladin, an American living in
Aruba, not sure if he is jail! And Lalo's sister Guisette and Michael 
Saladin are the vocalists in the Mi Dushi Band!!!



Betico's daughter????


Aruba's official Holiday to remember him has been marked on January
25, his birth date.

Caya G. F. Betico Croes is named for him and is the main shopping
street in Oranjestad, Aruba.

Has 2 sons, Glenbert and Junior Croes and 2 daughters Lalo Saladin-
Croes and Guisette Croes.

MySpace.com - Dushi Band of Aruba - Oranjestad, Caribbean - Techno ...
Band Members, Hildward Croes (Director / Keyboards / Vocals), Guisette Croes (Vocals), Michael Saladin (Vocals), Melvin Garcia (Vocals), ...profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=27529601 - 193k - Cached - Similar pages
Gay News From 365Gay.com
Aug 21, 2005 ... "Being gay is still taboo in Aruba," said Guisette Croes, 41, a lesbian who owns a music store in the capital, Oranjestad, ...www.365gay.com/newscon05/08/082105Aruba.htm - 28k -




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