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Author Topic: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4  (Read 634769 times)
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finngirl
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« Reply #520 on: June 28, 2008, 04:55:43 PM »

Finngirl - I guess this means that Finbar does feel that Steve Croes is the 5th suspect.  Do you know why he feels that Steve was the fifth one arrested?

I think I can safely say that fin was
definitely looking in Steve's direction

but I think fin left just as the 5th suspect angle
was coming into its current heavy rotation,
so to speak

ie: fin was focused on Steve ...
but Steve's spot in the lineup wasn't the biggest factor

fin, do you agree?

hellllllooooo?


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finngirl
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« Reply #521 on: June 28, 2008, 04:59:57 PM »


a few days ago I posted re the quarry search
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Mon June 27, 2005
4:00 am shango:
Babalu finally opened a window with a view into the house of Babylon with his 12:30 posting.


there are late-morning reports that 2 search dogs have "hit"

5 hour break: no sim/no shango ...
then genuine sim interspersed w/ poser sim:

9:13 am simian:
Lack of evidence is not proof of innocence. The cowboys are looking everywhere, but the land and waters hold many secrets. The Babylonians need to keep an eye on the cowboys. The process muct be protected. The ravers need to be pinched.


etc/etc ...
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

what I meant to do/neglected to do
was to highlight the "sim poser" posts,
altho ... today I can't find the list

also, one labeled as fake makes much sense
in the context of the conversation ...
ie: sim is being impersonated, yet this one is fake?

June 27, 2005
I have not left. I do not want to be copied however and would like to stay and speak.


also, I've seen conversation in the last few pages
re fake posts from the time of the retracted confession/june 10
and the fakes I posted are from about three weeks later

does anyone have the "fake list" or know where it is?
TIA

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finngirl
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« Reply #522 on: June 28, 2008, 05:16:07 PM »

Finngirl - thanks for the explanation.  Since that time, some of us have come up with the theory that another cousin, Armin, is Simian and not AG.  Is there possibly a fourth cousin in that group who Finbar wanted us to look at?  Is there anyone else involved with Natalee's disappearance that could be part of that family tree and someone that Simian would want to protect?

no, because fin's focus was on AG ...
which is why he used her geneaology links

altho he was also fond of saying that
one could not sling a Yoruban priest w/o hitting a Croes ...
Teresa/Mariaine/Rudy/etc ... ?

 Wink

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« Reply #523 on: June 28, 2008, 05:47:49 PM »

fin is one of the most logical/dogged thinkers
I've ever encountered...

Me too


Some people have huge amounts of information because they have a type of photographic memory. ... Einstein said most people can be a genius if they are willing, and they have a large enought head and ears to hold all of this info. I think Finbar does.
 
Finbar is  also very funny he gave me this picture of himself he said he was the better looking one, the one with out the drawl.


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« Reply #524 on: June 28, 2008, 05:52:27 PM »

Finbar I miss your brain.
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vms
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« Reply #525 on: June 28, 2008, 05:53:04 PM »

GUILTY PLEASURES LAUNCH PARTY AT AERO BAR

Information
Event Info Host: JOSHUA MENENDEZ, PICO, ERICA FRESHMEN, ERNESTO ARAMBATZIS, RICK SARILE AND 
Type: Party - Club Party
Time and Place Start Time: Thursday, July 3, 2008 at 10:00pm
End Time: Friday, July 4, 2008 at 5:00am
Location: AERO BAR
Street: 247 23RD ST
City/Town: Miami Beach, FL

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=17461908655
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #526 on: June 28, 2008, 07:37:28 PM »

So, Ernesto went to school in Bradenton, but listed his hometown as Porlamar, Venezuela.  Maybe he didn't spend much time on Aruba.  Freddy might have only been on Aruba for a few years, himself.  If Urine said that Freddy spoke terrible English and didn't undertand Pap, then that means Freddy speaks Spanish.  Mum is right.  Would that also mean that Ernesto most likely speaks Spanish and he probably wouldn't realize it if someone insulted him in Pap?  Who paid for Ernesto's tuition at Bradenton and why didn't Freddy get the same deal?  I wonder if Ernesto and/or Freddy are related to the Mansurs who also have interests in that part of Venezuela. Could Lillian be a cousin or the mother of one or two of their illegitimate kids? 

SS…Joran said that Freddy ONLY spoke Pap. Spanish is the language of Venezuela, no Pap anywhere that I could find! Dutch is taught in Aruban schools, as is English…so what nationality would that make Freddy, Joran’s light skinned Latino friend?

I would assume that Ernesto speaks English and Spanish. If he did in fact do courses through Bradenton Prep,he could have learnt English. I came up empty on the accredited schools in Venezuela tied to Bradenton Prep. I would think this would still be expensive, but really do not know. I don’t know if Ernesto is from Porlamar, or if he just went to school there. It is on Isla Margarita.

Lilian was born in Aruba, according to the Chamber records that vms posted the other day. All the Arambatzis, that were found were listed in the Arambatzis thread. It is a Greek name, and that had a lot to do with my connections.

I can’t make a connection between Ernesto and Freddy, and it becomes even more confusing when you add the Zedan and Rodriguez. I would love for some-one to find another path or something that was overlooked...maybe then the pieces would fit! Will keep plodding away at it though!

Freddy stated that he was from Maracaibo, on a site that vms posted with the pic of Ghis. The Mansur family have ties to Maracaibo, Caracus and 2 other places in Venezuela. These places and Porlamar are not close to each other.

Thanks for the links Kermit to Porlamar and Bradenton Prep., and for all informative posts today everyone…
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vms
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« Reply #527 on: June 28, 2008, 08:08:38 PM »

FWIW

Caracas is listed as his hometown on facebook...


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MumInOhio
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« Reply #528 on: June 28, 2008, 08:11:26 PM »

SS…I like your thoughts on the events of the day of the reported arrest. A diversion! So who could be that important? IIRC it was reported to be outside the capital, and I thought I recalled a poster saying it looked like the same house that Joran was arrested from on the 6/9.  So who has a similar looking house, or who could have been at Joran’s house?

Finngirl…Since you have a great memory and seem to be able to locate the posts relevant to dates, do you recall what was happening in the days prior to July 15th.?  I have been reading Mirian’s posts and they seem to be pointing directly at Freddy.

I am wondering why some-one like Tommy Pooch would insert himself into the case! Is it a coincidence that Ernesto Arambatzis was inserted later on?

Again, Thanks for bringing FP posts over, I seem to be stuck on one thread and haven’t got past it…Any info you can share on Checkme, Anbennett, Vanessa or any others FP posters would be appreciated…TIA

Vms...Thanks on Caracus...
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« Reply #529 on: June 28, 2008, 09:30:53 PM »

So, Ernesto went to school in Bradenton, but listed his hometown as Porlamar, Venezuela.  Maybe he didn't spend much time on Aruba.  Freddy might have only been on Aruba for a few years, himself.  If Urine said that Freddy spoke terrible English and didn't undertand Pap, then that means Freddy speaks Spanish.  Mum is right.  Would that also mean that Ernesto most likely speaks Spanish and he probably wouldn't realize it if someone insulted him in Pap?  Who paid for Ernesto's tuition at Bradenton and why didn't Freddy get the same deal?  I wonder if Ernesto and/or Freddy are related to the Mansurs who also have interests in that part of Venezuela. Could Lillian be a cousin or the mother of one or two of their illegitimate kids? 

SS…Joran said that Freddy ONLY spoke Pap. Spanish is the language of Venezuela, no Pap anywhere that I could find! Dutch is taught in Aruban schools, as is English…so what nationality would that make Freddy, Joran’s light skinned Latino friend?

I would assume that Ernesto speaks English and Spanish. If he did in fact do courses through Bradenton Prep,he could have learnt English. I came up empty on the accredited schools in Venezuela tied to Bradenton Prep. I would think this would still be expensive, but really do not know. I don’t know if Ernesto is from Porlamar, or if he just went to school there. It is on Isla Margarita.

Lilian was born in Aruba, according to the Chamber records that vms posted the other day. All the Arambatzis, that were found were listed in the Arambatzis thread. It is a Greek name, and that had a lot to do with my connections.

I can’t make a connection between Ernesto and Freddy, and it becomes even more confusing when you add the Zedan and Rodriguez. I would love for some-one to find another path or something that was overlooked...maybe then the pieces would fit! Will keep plodding away at it though!

Freddy stated that he was from Maracaibo, on a site that vms posted with the pic of Ghis. The Mansur family have ties to Maracaibo, Caracus and 2 other places in Venezuela. These places and Porlamar are not close to each other.

Thanks for the links Kermit to Porlamar and Bradenton Prep., and for all informative posts today everyone…




Mum - we need to have Kermit explain his post with the pictures.  I understood the post as Ernesto graduated from Bradenton and his hometown was Porlamar.  I don't know if Bradenton is tied to Venezuela, but I don't think so.  Their website said something about expanding to the Middle East somewhere, but I don't recall anything about Venezuela.  We need to grab Kermit for an explanation.  I think Ernesto was a boarding student in Bradenton.  From what I read on the website, the internet classes are for the kids enrolled at the school.  These schools pay a fee and courses can be available from other schools.  It's cheaper than hiring more teachers.  I didn't see anything about students from other locations being able to access classes at Bradenton.

So, I had it backwards.  Freddy only speaks Pap so that would put him in Aruba or Curacao, not in Venezuela.  If his mother was from Venezuela wouldn't he have learned some Spanish at home?  I can't understand no Dutch or English, especially if his mother is Dutch.  Who is Freddy and where is he from?

Your Freddy thread is great.  Nice work.

Does anyone know the names and ages of Jossy Mansur's children?
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #530 on: June 28, 2008, 09:56:31 PM »

Silverfox
Sending you email. 
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« Reply #531 on: June 28, 2008, 11:20:38 PM »

LaLa's sharpen your pencils because this one is out of the box.

The 5th suspect has an alibi so string. It has everybody baffled.  The 5th was a boyfriend from earlier in the week.  The party-goers said the 5th one was with them.  He was the host.  How could he have left.  A jealous boyfriend was at home with some friends.  He couldn’t have done it.  Sometimes friends will cover for each other.  He had to be let go.  I did not say an ex.  Girl goes out with cool and crazy guy in casino.  After a couple of days girl meets another boy in casino.  This makes first guy really mad.  So he confronts second boy.  However, the first guy has an airtight alibi.   Some friends say that they were at  home with him. Until morning.  He has an alibi. So tight. So tight.  The first guy has the motive.  The seond guy is scared sh*tless in a cell.  It was a simple party at his house.  He was “the whole time”.

In light of what we now know about Joran’s sexual activities and considering that we identified JR and JC as party-goers several months ago, this story might not be about jealousy over a girl.  What if it is jealousy between two guys?   The first guy almost has to be older and has his own house.  We originally thought LVR, but LVR wouldn’t be having a romance with his half brother.  What young kid could have a party on a school night where his friends stayed until morning?  What if Natalee just hung out with a guy she met in the casino for some fun and then a few days later met up with Joran.  Guy number one is attracted to Joran and gets mad because Joran was with Natalee when he arrived at the Matty Apts. - so something bad happened to Natalee.  He was jealous of Natalee.  Who besides Guido might have had a romance with Joran? Guido didn’t have his own house – he was still in school.  Joran’s friends didn’t live in Oranjestadt.   Who had a house where friends could party and stay all night?  One of JC’s friends is Davin.  JC had his own house and his gay friends would cover for him and say they stayed all night.  JR could even say that she was at his party because they’re friends and he’s her boss.  Who’s going to doubt the madame when she offers a tight alibi for him?  This guy didn’t stay in jail at all because his alibi was so tight.  They had to let him go.  Who said the alibi played for the Sloots?  Was JC the 5th?  Did JR set up the car chase that morning as a diversion because her sources told her that ALE was coming to arrest JC and she had to protect him from the media?  It wasn’t a BonDia reporter that looked like an idiot in the end.  Davin is JC's friend who helped his buddy dispose of Natalee.  JR owns the tourist boat with the banana boat behind it.  Davin could easily have left for Holland the next morning and he has recently moved to New Zealand.  Didn’t Patrick say that he had left Holland?  When the suspect was arrested on the 11th, he was described as being in his 20s - not a 17 year old kid.  JC is now 34.  The 5th was a boyfriend from earlier in the week, but not a boyfriend of Natalee - a boyfriend of Joran.  Natalee met a guy and then a boy.  The first one was not a boy like Joran.
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Poochy
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« Reply #532 on: June 29, 2008, 12:15:03 AM »

FWIW

Caracas is listed as his hometown on facebook...




http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8324495619079239444&q=source:008846888706825669709&hl=en

 at 15 seconds.

Is this the same person?
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« Reply #533 on: June 29, 2008, 12:31:16 AM »

I do not think that is Ernesto..But he does resemble Michael Dompig.MO


« Last Edit: June 29, 2008, 01:11:47 AM by Observer » Logged

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finngirl
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« Reply #534 on: June 29, 2008, 02:42:34 AM »


Mum: not sure what you're looking for ...
grabbed some highlights from worldjournier timeline
http://members.aol.com/worldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

On 7-6 CNN reported:
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: … Developments in the Natalee Holloway investigation. Can eyewitnesses link a car owned by the van der Sloot family to the beach where Natalee disappeared? Reaction ahead from Natalee's mother and stepfather.
(CNN did not report further on NATALEE during that segment)
_ _ _

On 7-6 Senator SHELBY stated that the Dutch Ambassador to the U.S. has suggested that SHELBY get the U.S. Navy deep diving team involved in the search. SHELBY said he has written the U.S. Secretary of the Navy for that help.
_ _ _

On 7-6 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN reported that she spoke with DEEPAK in his bedroom and he claimed to her that he and JORAN are no longer friends because JORAN has made 14 different written and signed statements implicating DEEPAK. GRETA reported that she saw no computer in his bedroom, and he told her that the ARUBAN Police still have it. GRETA reported that DEEPAK  claimed to her that while he was in jail he was shown Prime JORAN's written and signed statements by interrogators and he told GRETA that “he‘s trying to put me into it“. GRETA did not interview SATISH.
_ _ _

On 7-6 MSNBC reported:
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Tonight's top headline: outrage in Aruba, as protesters target Natalee Holloway's mother.
_ _ _

On 7-7 it was reported that the Hixon, Tennessee-based, “Tennessee Search and Rescue Dog Association” team of 3 divers, a search dog and her handler were requested by Aruban officials to help in the search.

The Chattanooga-based search team is expected to assist in the Holloway investigation for six days. Divers Dale Hicks and John Scruggs are experts in collecting evidence during dives. Lisa Canfield said authorities in Aruba contacted them because they believe the team's nationally certified canine could help.
_ _ _

On July 8-12, 2005, VideoRay was invited by the Florida State University Underwater Crime Scene Investigation team to assist them in the search for Natalee Holloway in Aruba in underwater areas that have been otherwise inaccessible to search teams that were already there. These locations included a shoreline cave, a lagoon and a quarry. Texas EquuSearch is the organization that is leading the search effort.
_ _ _

On 7-8 BETH HOLLOWAY-TWITTY gave an apology to the ARUBANs via the media.
_ _ _
 
On 7-8 it was announced that 3 judges will hold appeal hearings on 7-12 to either free or retain JORAN, and to take back into custody DEEPAK and SATISH.
_ _ _

On 7-8 “Holiday Inn” security guard SOLVERT RENESKA gave statement to ALE.
_ _ _

On 7-8 the “National Enquirer” reported:
DESPERATE LAST CRY FOR HELP THAT COULD TRAP ARUBA KILLERS
A desperate last phone call from missing Natalee Holloway could provide police with a vital link to the killers in the Aruba murder case. The National Enquirer has discovered what may have been a last cry for help by the 18-year-old honors student.

Shortly after she was last seen alive, she left a message on a close friend's cell phone. Chillingly, a sinister male voice is heard in the background asking Natalee: "Are you calling home?"

An insider in the investigation said: "Her friend believes it could have been the last call from Natalee, who was in trouble and desperate for help."
_ _ _

In a stunning development on July 4, two of the three suspects in the case — brothers Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and Katish Kalpoe, 18 — were released from custody. The prime suspect, Joran van der Sloot, 17, was ordered to be detained for 60 more days for continued interrogation.

On 7-9 PAT HURLEY wrote:
The Heart Of The Natalee Holloway Case: Joran's Timeline And Lies

At the heart of this mystery lies two facts that are intriguing....

First, Joran van der Sloot has continually changed his story since leaving the Carlos and Charlie's with Natalee Holloway. Secondly, it is documented that the Kalpoe brothers dropped he and Natalee off at 1:30 a.m. He text messaged them at 2:15 a.m. asking for a ride home. Forty minutes later he texts them again and tells them he is home. Since he has lied constantly about his story, there is reason to believe he is lying to them when he sends the message that he is "home." If he indeed IS home, then he either handed Natalee off to someone else or she met her fate after he left making him the unluckiest schmuck on the planet. There was no time for a teenage boy to kill a human being by himself and get rid of her body on a beach near the Marriott in...forty minutes.

If he was not at home then, he sent the text message to cover his timeline. This would have given him and whoever picked him up TIME to dispose of Natalee's body. In that case, the mystery shifts to...who would Joran call if he was in big trouble? The answer is, either his friends or his dad.
_ _ _

On 7-11 DUTCH news-sourced “Expatica” reported:
Dutch Air Force ends Holloway search
AMSTERDAM — Three F-16 fighter jets are to return to base in the Netherlands after being withdrawn from the increasingly-frustrating search for missing US teen Natalee Holloway.
_ _ _

From her detailed journal, BETH stated that on 7-11 BETH had a meeting with ARUBA Prosecutor KARIN JANSSEN where JANSSEN said that ARUBAN Police have documented records that JORAN made a cellular phone call and text-messaged a message to DEEPAK's computer at his home at 3:30 AM on 5-30. JORAN’s 3:30 AM text-message simply was “Thanks. I’m home.” JANSSEN also told BETH that there was an 8-and-a-half minute call between JORAN's cel phone DEEPAK's cel phone--the longest call ever recorded between the two boys' phones.
_ _ _

On 7-11 the ST. MAARTEN “Daily Herald” reported:
Court hears appeals in missing girl probe
ARUBA--The Court heard five appeals on Tuesday against decisions of the examining judge in the disappearance of US teenager Natalee Holloway in Aruba, with the rulings scheduled for Thursday afternoon.

The appeals include four from the prosecution, of which two are against the release of the Kalpoe bothers. The other two are against lifting restrictions for the only suspect still detained, Joran, including admitting his lawyers to interrogation sessions.

Van der Sloot in turn is appealing the decision to prolong his detention. He admits he was left alone with the girl at Fishermen’s Hut by the two brothers before she vanished, but says he left her there when one of the brothers picked him up later, something they both deny doing.
_ _ _

On 7-11 FOX News reported:
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: Some explosive new details are emerging about the night Natalee Holloway disappeared. The Aruban newspaper Diario broke the news on their front page on Monday. Joining us live from Aruba with the inside scoop is Diario's managing editor, Jossy Mansur.

VAN SUSTEREN: Jossy, let me get straight to the main thing that struck everybody reading that article today, that Joran van der Sloot claimed to the police to have buried Natalee. Is that right?

JOSSY MANSUR, DIARIO MANAGING EDITOR: That's correct, Greta. That happened on the second day of interrogations.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know when he supposedly made that statement to the police? Was it early on in his detention, or even before his detention or later?

MANSUR: No, it was when they had let them free. And when he came back, they (INAUDIBLE) him in as a suspect. On the second day of that detention, he broke down completely. He cried, and he admitted to the police, he confessed to the police that, we buried Natalee.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he say where he'd buried Natalee?

MANSUR: He gave them indications. They put him in a police car. They brought him over here to the north of the Marriott Hotel, and he pointed towards some indistinct area by the fishermen's huts. Those are huts that the fishermen use them to guard their equipment, their nets, their knives, whatever they use in fishing.
_ _ _

On 7-12 PAUL REYNOLDS told MSNBC, “I know that my sister had a meeting with the FBI June 10, Friday. And from that meeting, she became convinced that Natalee was no longer alive. She called her mother and told her that. And our family was—was—began the grieving process. You know, we were told the report would come out the next day. Later that night, we saw the reports that confessions had been made, that something bad had happened. Shortly thereafter, it was retracted. The next morning, there was a report that said Natalee was confirmed dead. And these reports came from the deputy commissioner. They came from the spokesperson from the Ministry of Justice. And then, all of a sudden, these statements and these confessions just disappeared.” “I am not aware of any follow-up information. You know, this seemed to disappear from sight, these confessions did. At the time, we thought that because the investigation is kept secret, we thought it was ongoing, and maybe they just didn't want to release it officially at that time. But, as we see that the appeals, the hearings are showing there's no evidence, but yet we have these confessions, it doesn't make any sense. It's as if they are being hidden or taken away.”
_ _ _

On 7-12 Prosecutor KARIN JANSSEN also presented evidence to the judge from prosecutors, seeking to overturn an order allowing van der SLOOT's father to visit his son while he's in custody (this was reported to be the fourth appeal by the prosecutors to block PAULUS from interacting with JORAN ).
_ _ _

On 7-12 MSNBC reported:
SCARBOROUGH: You are looking at pictures of Joran van der Sloot. He's in the back seat of a Police car with his head down, leaving the Aruban courthouse. Obviously, Aruba and America focused on this young man, the key suspect in the case.

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: Joran is a 17-year-old teenager. He is a fantastic tall guy. He's a sporter. He plays tennis on the island, soccer, volley ball, softball. He is a boy who will come out of his bed and give his mom a hug. And, hi mom. How are you? Have a nice day. He is a very warm young boy.

SCARBOROUGH: What has he told you about Natalee?

VAN DER SLOOT: He hasn't told me anything, because, on the Monday, he went to school, like any normal boy. And he wasn't aware of—he was totally surprised when the Police asked him to come to the—or picked him up for interrogation. He was totally surprised. He really thought that the girl would be safe in the hotel and there was no reason to talk about her at all.

SCARBOROUGH: You know, there are a lot of parents, obviously, that obviously would never want to be in this sort of situation. But if you are in this sort of situation, what do you, what do your husband tell your son to get him through these difficult times?

VAN DER SLOOT: You know, we have three children, two in teenage ages.

And we always tell the kids to tell the truth, to—and Joran is not a—he is a good child, but he is, of course, not a model child, because he has his mistakes. And he cheated, and he kicks his brothers, and he does things any ordinary 17-year-old teenager would do, but we always try to talk.

We are a very close family. We spend a lot of time talking about problems in the world. We look at news. We see things happen that are evil and that are wrong, and we warn the kids about drugs, about alcohol, the consequences that are there. Throughout the education at the international school, a lot of time is spent there, too, to make the kids conscious about all kind of risks they can take or not—they cannot take, and about responsibility, about respect for others.

We are living on a multicultural island, and we always try to raise the kids with—see what's in the heart of people. Don't focus on the outside. Listen to people. Be respectful.

SCARBOROUGH: Right.

VAN DER SLOOT: If they go out, be careful. Don't go out alone.

Always go with friends. Be aware that things can happen.
_ _ _

On 7-12 “Riehl World View” blog identity “Lago girl” reported:
I am very frustrated that the FSU forensic divers never searched Boca Mahos...they could have found evidence of Natalee Holloway there...I am certain of it.

Now who will do that job? My childhood friends who used to skin dive and spearfish in there are way beyond the task, now.

So difficult to be so far away and a voice in the wilderness...no one has answered my emails to Greta, Texas Equusearch, MSNBC, Aruba Today.
I know that area of sea has to be the place they tossed the lifeless body of Natalee Holloway...or it has to be ruled out.

Someone in Aruba, please contact the Texas Equusearch Mr. Miller about the probability that a dead body would most likely be tossed over the cliff at Boca Mahos...the old garbage dump into the sea where the sharks were fed.
I was born in the Lago Hospital of the American oil refinery in Aruba and lived in the company town, Lago Colony (Seroe Colorado) all of my childhood and youth, until leaving for college in the States.

All of my Lago friends who grew up in Aruba, including the boys who loved nothing more than skin diving and spearfishing, swam all of those waters with only flippers, snorkle and mask and their trusty spearguns.
All of my Lago friends who grew up in Aruba, including the boys who loved nothing more than skin diving and spearfishing, swam all of those waters with only flippers, snorkle and mask and their trusty spearguns.

They all agree that by far, the fastest and easiest and surest way to dispose of a dead body would be to run over to Boca Mahos from Noord, drive up to the edge of the cliff and toss the body out into the crashing waves over the shear drop of the undercut cliff.

Look at Boca Mahos and the boys I grew up with jumping into the sea as teenagers...

This boca, cove, if you will, MUST be searched by the Navy Seals and the Florida State University forensic divers...or they will have missed the MOST LIKELY PLACE to dump a dead body to hide it forever.

If they dive and search that boca, they will find some traces of Natalee...I am sure...very very very sure.

All of my Aruba friends who know the island as well as I do, and beter, agree...dive in Boca Mahos...and you will find something...

…So, it is imperative that the modern day boys of the Navy and FSU go diving to see what they can find in Boca Mahos...the boys of Lago Colony would go, again, taking only photos, and leaving only bubbles...for they loved being in the sea more than anything in the life of a teenage lad lucky enough to be born and grow up in Aruba...nothing in our lives will ever be better than the childhoods we were granted by Fate...that our American and Dutch and British parents worked for Lago Oil and we lived in Aruba.

Please search Boca Mahos...that is the only place that makes any sense...

Sue Gravendijk
daughter of Arie Gravendijk, head cashier, Lago Oil and Transport Co., Ltd, Aruba “
Posted by: Lago girl | Tuesday, July 12, 2005 at 07:36 PM
_ _ _

On 7-12 the "Texas EquuSearch" team received an in-person tip from an ARUBAN man who gave them a specific location that needed to be searched on the north side of the island within “Arikok National Park” VERY CLOSE TO THE SHARK-INFESTED “BACO MAHOS” GARBAGE DUMP SITE. When the team got there, about 100’ from the road they found an open 4’ deep and 6’ long hole that TIM MILLER stated, “certainly looks like a grave site that was possibly dug up.” TIM MILLER also said something “definitely was buried,” the hole was “manmade, remote, had easy access yet hard to see. Perfect.”
_ _ _

On 7-13 TITO LACLE reported to FOX News that he learned from one of the suspect's attorneys that there is evidence consisting of text-messages sent after 5-31 between one of the KALPOEs to friends (not JORAN) in the form of an Internet chat. LACLE reported that some of the F-16 flyover evidence is in. (there is a rumor that the F-16s found suspicious tire tracks at a remote location). LACLE also said that JORAN has 3 lawyers. LACLE reported that van der SLOOT’s lawyers are communicating with one or both of the KALPOE attorneys.
_ _ _

On 7-13 ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, member of the ARUBA “STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS TASK FORCE,” claimed to FOX News that the evidence against Prime Murder Suspect JORAN VAN DER SLOOT was, “thin, thin, thin” and he may be freed.
_ _ _

“East Texas Canine Search and Rescue” left ARUBA on 7-13.
_ _ _

On 7-13 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN wrote in her “Gretawire“ blog, “Feeling a bit "land-locked" Tuesday [7-12], I made a bunch of phone calls to Aruba to get more information. I spoke briefly — very briefly – with Police commissioner Jan van der Straten. He was not very "chatty" when I identified myself as part of the media, but he was polite... very polite. Getting information out of the Police commissioner is a bit like "pulling teeth," but when I confronted him about the report in the Aruban paper (that Joran allegedly said in an interrogation that he buried Natalee), he said, "I don't recognize it." I replied, "Does that mean it did not happen?" He responded, "I don't recognize it." Thinking he had not heard me, I tried again and he again said, "I don't recognize it." I then said, "Would you know if it had happened that way? Would you know if Joran said in an interrogation that he buried Natalee?" He then responded, "Yes." Our conversation ended there. So... I report what I hear, but leave it to you to decide how much weight to give the newspaper article and the commissioner's remarks. The Aruban paper claims to have good sources. Tuesday night the managing editor of the paper was on our show and he insists his information is good. I also reached the chief prosecutor on the phone yesterday. She tried to get me off the phone as fast as she could (I would not describe her as "chatty.") I asked her a series of questions about procedure — and learned that she did not argue the case yesterday since it is an appeal. Her senior handles appeals. The judges who will decide the detention issues for all three are from a neighboring island —- and there are three judges, not one, who make this decision.”
_ _ _

On 7-14 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN responded to an emailer and wrote in her “Gretawire” blog:
E-mail No. 2
Is there any truth to the article in The National Enquirer about Natalee calling a friend on her cell phone that last night?
Virginia Van Delist

ANSWER: Here is what I know about a phone call: Apparently a friend of Natalee's received a call to his voice mail/answering machine. There was background noise and then someone said something like, "Are you calling home?" As far as I know the phones were then disconnected and nothing else was recorded. I do not know if that call was from Natalee or from her cell phone or one she may have used.

Incidentally, not all USA cell phone service works in Aruba. My AT&T cell phone works there, but my Verizon cell phone does not. And yes — I know — what kind of person has two cell phones? It is a bit nutty but I have two cell phones with different service. Why? For the very reason that some times I am in areas where service is limited.

One other thing about the phone call — it is not clear when it was received by the person receiving the message.
_ _ _

On 7-14 the 3 appeals judges agreed that JORAN should remain in custody until his next hearing on 9-2. (Sometime before 7-12 the charges were changed to “serious suspicion of murder, manslaughter or intentional containment with the death as consequence” of NATALEE, and DEEPAK and SATISH KALPOE should remain free. After the 3 judges appeals rulings on 7-14, WERNET read a prepared statement and stated in part, “…there is ‘serious suspicion’to keep Joran van der S. in custody” …and…

"He was in her company and gave varying statements about what happened then and afterwards" The ruling also said that JORAN had recently changed his account of the night of HOLLOWAY's disappearance and authorities need time to investigate the new version.
_ _ _

TITO LACLE reported to FOX News on July 19, 2005 that on July 14, 2005 the prosecutors requested saliva from JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, DEEPAK and SATISH but all they refused to provide their sample.
_ _ _

On 7-14 DILMA ARENDS reported that evidence in the form of cellular phone tracking records of JORAN pinpoint that he did make a 4:00 AM cellular phone call. ARENDS also alluded that the forensics may have pinpointed precisely from where JORAN placed the cellular phone call. ARENDS also said that at 4:00 AM DEEPAK was home, but after receiving the cellular phone call he left his home and then went to the Marriott Hotel location.
_ _ _

On 7-14 SATISH's lawyer said that there was “new evidence” presented 7-12 by the prosecutor, but that “new evidence” was not relevant to SATISH and the “new evidence” was “probably not” relevant to JORAN.
_ _ _

On 7-14 ELLIS-SCHIPPER, member of the ARUBA “STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS TASK FORCE,” stated to FOX News that apparently the judges agree that the actions by JORAN are “evidently deceitful” and because JORAN was retained under arrest that the judges think there “has to be a crime that has occurred against NATALEE.”
_ _ _

On 7-14 FOX News GERALDO RIVERA reported that “the fishermen witnesses near the Marriott Hotel say the kids were nowhere near the beach” in the morning hours of 5-30. RIVERA mentioned that van der STRATEN will be retiring in August 2005.
_ _ _

On 7-14 TITO LACLE reported to FOX News that his investigation, which included he and his colleagues speaking with JORAN's classmates about JORAN’s character, reveals that JORAN is a “different person” by day than he is at night. LACLE claims that JORAN has “different attitudes, depending on who he is with,” that JORAN is “short-tempered,” and that on 5-30 JORAN had a noticeably blackened eye when he went to school--with JORAN claiming that he received the blackened eye in a fight with his friends while he was at "Carlos 'n Charlie's" after midnight on 5-29.
_ _ _

On 7-15 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN reported that she had spoken to the mother of a school student male witness about JORAN showing up at school the morning of 5-30 with a very noticeable bruise on his cheek.
_ _ _

On 7-15 BETH HOLLOWAY-TWITTY stated that an Aruban woman had called her said she just wanted to make sure that BETH knew that JORAN had a bruise on his face the morning of 5-30 at school.
_ _ _

On 7-15 TITO LACLE reported to FOX News that a colleague reporter had gone to JORAN ’s school on 6-9. When LACLE’s colleague asked about JORAN to a person at the school he was told, “Oh, you mean that boy with the bruise.”
_ _ _

On 7-15 FOX News GRETA VAN SUSTEREN stated that when she spoke to a Police official that day that “he gave me a wink and a nod“ that GRETA interpreted as the Police do not have enough evidence to prosecute a case.
_ _ _

On 7-15 CNN reported that the FBI has asked on more than one occasion to take a close look at what's been gathered so far, for example, statements made, interviews conducted, evidence collected, etc to try to give a fresh perspective to things. The FBI has been turned down on more than one occasion to get a look at this information. The FBI profile of NATALEE was provided ARUBAN investigators on one occasion. A Dutch profiler who has also been provided in on this case has offered advice, for example, on techniques in interviewing JORAN, and that advice has not been used, apparently.

ARUBAN government spokespeople and a spokesperson for the prosecutor's office were asked about not using FBI Experienced suggestions for interrogation. According to one ARUBAN source, the local rules don't allow the FBI, which is actively not participating but observing and assisting, to look at this information. According to the government spokesperson and the prosecutor's office, "They're assisting us. We're thinking about it. We're allowing them to do certain things, and not allowing them to do others."
_ _ _

BETH also stated that she found out 7-15 that the ARUBAN Police Investigators have never asked the DEA agent for a statement on what he witnessed and heard during the 5-31 early morning encounters between the TWITTYs and SLOOTs.
_ _ _

On 7-15 NADIRA RAMIREZ told FOX News she thinks NATALEE is still alive. She also said that the brothers are not “sporters,” so they “just drive around” when they go out driving NADIRA RAMIREZ “only on the weekends.”
_ _ _

On 7-15 ERIC SOEMERS took over as ARUBAN Police commissioner when van der STRATEN went on a pre-retirement “vacation.”
_ _ _

On 7-15 the “National Enquirer” reported:
HOW NATALEE WAS KILLED
Dutch teenager Joran van der Sloot confessed to his father that he dumped Natalee Holloway's body in shark-infested waters after she accidentally hit her head and drowned in a drug-induced stupor on an Aruban beach.

Dooley said the clerk at the clothing store told him that she and her husband are very good friends with Joran's dad, Paulus van der Sloot, and his wife, Anita. Her own son had attended school with Joran on the island and was a close pal.

The clerk told Dooley: "Joran told his father that he and Natalee had all been drinking and taking drugs at the nightclub. The father specifically mentioned they took Ecstasy. Joran told his father that when they left the club, they went to a beach on the island. Natalee was very ill and threw up several times.

"Then she fell and hit her head on something. Joran checked her and realized she was dead.

"Joran and others discussed an appropriate place to dump Natalee's body, a specific place where someone would disappear forever... a spot on the island where the waters are shark-infested."

Arubaans know the shark-feeding spot very well and directed a National Enquirer reporter to its location on the rugged north coast of the island, where the ocean pounds the rocks and few people live.

The water there is deep and murky and sits beneath a high cliff, far away from the beautiful beaches and posh hotel casinos on the island's southern side.
_ _ _

On 7-16 the Police took JORAN (and one of his attorneys) back to the stretch of beach near the Marriott Hotel, including the fishermen’s huts, as on 6-11 JORAN was reported to have confessed to Police interrogators that is where “WE buried NATALEE.” ARUBAN Police commissioner VAN DER STRATEN declined to provide further details, saying only that it was "part of the investigation." As JORAN returned to the polis car, he was filmed in handcuffs pounding the engine hood of the polis car. It was reported that the Police also took JORAN to the suspicious 6’ long and 4’ deep dug out hole excavated by “Texas EquuSearch” and 2 Aruban Policemen on 7-12, possibly to see his reaction to viewing the hole. Walking suspects through the reconstruction of a scene is common practice in Aruba, according to the prosecutor's office.
_ _ _

Despite the previously arranged appointment being cancelled, on 7-16 DAVE went to the prison to try and meet wth JORAN. When DAVE got there, PAULUS and his wife were also there waiting to go see JORAN. DAVE stated, "I had two pictures with me, one of Natalee and one of my 7-year-old daughter. I told him, 'I have two daughters. I know where one of them is, but not the other and I am coming to you and your son to try and find out some answers." DAVE asked PAULUS to ask JORAN if he wanted to speak with DAVE about NATALEE “eye to eye” and tell him about NATALEE and the night of 5-29/30. "I told him, 'I'm here and I want to meet him. If he says he's innocent, he can tell me that to my face,"' DAVE stated he and PAULUS spoke for several minutes. DAVE asked PAULUS if DAVE could meet with JORAN. PAULUS told DAVE, “It’s not possible. It’s too late for that.“ At the end of the brief, initial prison meeting DAVE gave to PAULUS 3 books (a Bible, The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren and Living in the Moment by Mary Ann Morgan) to give to JORAN.

After about an hour, PAULUS and ANITA re-emerged from the prison and PAULUS and DAVE were filmed shaking hands and they then spoke. (In DAVE’s book, he wrote that he held VAN DER SLOOT’s handshake continuously for at least 30 minutes). JORAN, according to PAULUS, claimed he did want to meet with DAVE, but PAULUS stated to DAVE: “that will not happen until the investigation is over.” ANITA indicated that she thought JORAN should speak to DAVE.

DAVE stated that PAULUS kept referring to JORAN as the “child,” and he told DAVE he would do anything for his child. DAVE stated that ANITA told him she thinks the alcohol consumption age in ARUBA is 16.

Despite PAULUS' dodging questions, DAVE stated, he may have hit on something vital near the end of their conversation. "I told him, 'I am a forgiving person. If he is innocent, he needs to profess his innocence to me. If an accident happened on this, I can live with that. And about that time, his eyes watered and his voice quivered and he said, 'I've got to do everything I can to protect my son."'

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finngirl
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« Reply #535 on: June 29, 2008, 02:47:56 AM »

Some people have huge amounts of information because they have a type of photographic memory. ... Einstein said most people can be a genius if they are willing, and they have a large enough head and ears to hold all of this info. I think Finbar does.
 
Finbar is also very funny he gave me this picture of himself, he said he was the better looking one, the one without the drawl.




omigod, I remember that, ROFL

maybe it's the lighting ...
but they're both hotties, IMO

 Wink

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whiskey for my men/beer for my horses
Rob
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« Reply #536 on: June 29, 2008, 09:21:22 AM »

Name: John Charles Croes
Date: 28 June 2005
Pages: 3
Writer/Initiator: Johny Erasmus / Zoraida De Cuba
Description: Chat traffic



Possible myspace - *I'm not sure this is right*
http://us.profile.myspace.cn/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=227987194


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Truth, Justice and the American Way.

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~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
Rob
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« Reply #537 on: June 29, 2008, 09:21:58 AM »

More "Music"

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Truth, Justice and the American Way.

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~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
MumInOhio
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« Reply #538 on: June 29, 2008, 09:26:51 AM »

Good Morning!

Thanks Finn…heaps of info here, will need a month of Sundays to get through it all…From the Dr. Phil log…witness statements on cars between June 28th and July 6th.…two different ones…ah…the gray Toyota! One indication of an area by the Fisherman’s huts….and most of the rest are statements by Holiday Inn Security staff and a HI guest!  Sounds more like the vicinity of the Holiday Inn than the Fisherman’s Huts!

On 7-6 CNN reported:quoted by Finngirl
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: … Developments in the Natalee Holloway investigation. Can eyewitnesses link a car owned by the van der Sloot family to the beach where Natalee disappeared? Reaction ahead from Natalee's mother and stepfather.
(CNN did not report further on NATALEE during that segment)
_ _ _
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Rob
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« Reply #539 on: June 29, 2008, 09:33:34 AM »

More "Music"



http://www.gloriaestefan-italia.com/uk/englista.asp
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Truth, Justice and the American Way.

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~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
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