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Author Topic: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4  (Read 632349 times)
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1360 on: August 12, 2008, 10:47:26 AM »

Finn...trying to read a FP post/comments every couple of days...if it is not on SM, I will try and find it at RWV.  I have an idea that may have been where I read it. Thanks for the info on the speed shop forum...

I have some thoughts on the "News" coming out of Aruba. Jairo told posters to watch MSNBC...said they were partners with ATV...who were good as investigative reporters. Geraldo left around 6/14 or 6/15...porn movie announcement was aired 6/14...not discussed again until August. Will have to check on the exact date, but CNN stopped covering Natalee's story around 6/25, when Bob Costas refused to do a show on it. Nancy still followed it. CNN was hanging onto the "Something Bad Happened' story on 6/11. Aruba has CNN and only has Fox if you have a dish. So most in Aruba saw CNN...I think CNN and Fox had better sources. Not like MSNBC who were given there stories by ATV. I don't mean sources like Julia, Tito and Jossy...I mean real information sources. The confidential type. No matter how big the cover-up there will always be leaks.  It was even commented on the FP that there were no leaks early on! That by one of the Aruban posters. Heck, you hear stuff in the hotel lobby!

Is this why so many Aruban posters were slamming CNN and Fox...to counter the "bits" of real info they found? The confession, Something Bad happened, the porn movie, the alibi -Max Arends.

IIRC the Strategic Group was formed early. Was this before CNN left...Why did CNN leave...maybe they would have lost their contract if they stayed.

The only thing I recall with MSNBC was the prison video of Joran which they were not allowed to show. Just started thinking about this since I started on the FP and need to check some dates...if the info is still out there...

Mum, I had this part of an article from T4N saved regarding the Strategic Message Design Group.

In June of 2005, Robert DiLella and Stephen Cohen (SMDG) met with the Aruba Tourism Hotel Authority (ATHA) and the Aruban Tourism Authority (ATA) in order to create the Strategic Communications Task Force (SCTF). SCTF’s mission was to control the media coverage of the Natalee Holloway case. Members of the Steering Committee for this Task Force included many of the Island’s most influential people who were all heavily invested in Government or tourism. This fact goes a long way toward tying up loose ends in relevance to the dissemination of information in Natalee’s case and the attack on the media.

DiLella and Cohen went to work immediately taking action in their efforts to restrain the media wildfire that had besieged Aruba. First, they decided to drastically increase the fee charged to news organizations for using Aruba’s satellite uplink facilities. Secondly, a decision was made and acted upon to place stringent restrictions on the flow of media equipment coming into the island airport. The idea was to control all the electronic equipment belonging to foreign media representatives and journalists. In controlling the flow of electronic equipment, the operators would have less to work with, making it harder and in some cases impossible to report Natalee’s story. The plot to stop access to media equipment caused havoc and delay and resulted in success for SMDG. There was a noticeable decrease in journalists and media passing through the airport gates. After all, how could you report a story without your equipment? Journalists and media representatives were watched by ALE and others.  In hindsight, it is clear this plan was implemented to minimize the journalistic and media coverage of Natalee’s case. Crisis management was in full force and control on the Island of Aruba. The Natalee Holloway raging wildfire was soon to be reduced to a smolder.


Thanks Pita...Crisis Management???  They didn't want the truth to get out...

CNN ran the documentary about the choller houses and prostitution on June 10, 2005.  Previous to this, all the video of Aruba was beaches and sun.  IMO, this film was a turning point.


From Sunfreak’s Aruban Who’s Who…Thanks Sunfreak…

DI LELLA, Robert – Owner of the Stategic Message Design Group out of California, USA, on scene as early as June 11, 2005 as PR advisor to the PM Nelson Oduber and the ATA, AHATA & Strategic Task Force to rebuttal any negative aspersions cast upon Aruba by the Natalee Holloway disappearance.  Sister company is Cohen (Steve Cohen) DiLella Broadcast Group. DiLella was strategic in getting the MEP party and Oduber into power in the 1980’s

The posts I posted in Finngirl's "We Forgot we Knew" thread from June 11th now make a lot more sense...

June 10th. - 10.30PM...family was seen distraught at the hotel

June 11th. -reported confession, changed to something "bad happened", suspect leading them to a body, confession statements retracted.

CNN and Fox got this right! Oduber was bypassed, as were the local radio station which shut down that night.

Here is the link to the FP posts I posted yesterday...Post 43

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2768.40


Now what the heck did those ******** do with her????

Boycott Aruba!...Where is Sharon?
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1361 on: August 12, 2008, 12:41:46 PM »

Joran cracked that night.  He confessed that Natalee had been buried somewhere.  You can't lead someone to a body if it is in the ocean and you have no boat.  The PTB stopped it all because van der Straaten told them about the details.  The details of "see the chit".  The world was watching. Aruba did not have any control over the media.  June 11 is the date of the beginning of the cover up.  The all-out, full-fledged cover up.  Paulus had called in his favors and they were huge.  The bifrons were busy moving a body. 
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1362 on: August 12, 2008, 12:55:50 PM »

Let me throw a kink in this discussion for a minute. LOL

Satish was heavily questioned on June 10 and 11 as well as Deepak.  Then Joran gave the last statement the night of June 11 around 8:30 PM.  The rumors were out there in the early hours on Aruba...our media just didn't get wind of it until that afternoon and evening.

Kipster on June 11th, 2005 12:08 am

Confirmed by a senior police official:

“One of three young suspects arrested Thursday in the investigation into the disappearance of an Alabama teenager has confessed to her murder, a senior police official said late Friday.”

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/10/missing.teen/index.html



Gabriel Leo on June 11th, 2005 2:16 am

News going around on the island

Local media has contacted “live” on the air authorities, Prime Minister and other involved sources if the story, which again International media has published without the Aruba Media, Public even knows. Everyone with common sens knows that the first to find out are the local media. This left everyone on the island in shocked and therefor the local media started looking for confirmation which every top officials strongly denies. The Prime minister and Minister of Justice WHO ARE ALWAYS the first to receive any news said on the air ” Live” on the local media that the stories are not true and he has no information of any new developments.
Everyone denies that she is dead and that they are looking for her at this moment is not true.
The Ascioated press has started to change their news from found dead, or that they are looking for her remains to “bad things happening” or “bad things happened.

It’s 2 ‘o clock in the morning now and there will be no official statement until tomorrow. This is what’s going on now. Every top oficials on the island denies the story that has been published bij CNN and the AP.


#  arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:19 am

I respectfully disagree with Gabriel, what I heard was that no one confirmed the story, or that no one was able to confirm the story. This is as far as police officials go.

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« Reply #1363 on: August 12, 2008, 03:17:42 PM »

“One of three young suspects arrested Thursday in the investigation into the disappearance of an Alabama teenager has confessed to her murder, a senior police official said late Friday.”

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/10/missing.teen/index.html


Gabriel Leo on June 11th, 2005 2:16 am
News going around on the island

Local media has contacted “live” on the air authorities, Prime Minister and other involved sources if the story, which again International media has published without the Aruba Media, Public even knows. Everyone with common sens knows that the first to find out are the local media. This left everyone on the island in shocked and therefor the local media started looking for confirmation which every top officials strongly denies. The Prime minister and Minister of Justice WHO ARE ALWAYS the first to receive any news said on the air ” Live” on the local media that the stories are not true and he has no information of any new developments.
Everyone denies that she is dead and that they are looking for her at this moment is not true.
The Ascioated press has started to change their news from found dead, or that they are looking for her remains to “bad things happening” or “bad things happened.

It’s 2 ‘o clock in the morning now and there will be no official statement until tomorrow. This is what’s going on now. Every top oficials on the island denies the story that has been published bij CNN and the AP.


arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 2:19 am
I respectfully disagree with Gabriel, what I heard was that no one confirmed the story, or that no one was able to confirm the story. This is as far as police officials go.


from the RU 6 Degrees of Separation Thread ...
where posters listed how they were related to NH case:

Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:16 pm
arubagirl wrote:

Oh wow, let me count the ways
1) I live in Aruba
2) I worked for the Excelsior Casino
3) All four cops that I know worked on the case
4) Mariaine Croes was a classmate of mine
5) My dad knows Paul
(Paul worked for the Department of Justice, my dad worked for the then Minister of Justice NOT RUDY) etc...

there was a follow-up post that I saved/can't find
where AG added:
I know Native(Lingo) and she knows everyone else

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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1364 on: August 14, 2008, 11:58:42 AM »

What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1365 on: August 14, 2008, 12:26:11 PM »

What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?


It's possible...
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« Reply #1366 on: August 14, 2008, 12:43:53 PM »

What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?


It's possible...

  

BTW, BOYCOTT ARUBA sharon may be on her way to Jacksonville for that anniversary celebration & another bruce fix...
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« Reply #1367 on: August 14, 2008, 01:15:15 PM »

What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?

it would not surprise me one bit.  i cannot imagine that someone posted all of that and then never came back.  even if they don't post they have probably checked in to see who is talking about that posts.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1368 on: August 14, 2008, 01:25:34 PM »

What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?

it would not surprise me one bit.  i cannot imagine that someone posted all of that and then never came back.  even if they don't post they have probably checked in to see who is talking about that posts.


Yep Truthseeker...Simian as well...Egos....
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1369 on: August 14, 2008, 05:55:36 PM »

What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?


It's possible...

  

BTW, BOYCOTT ARUBA sharon may be on her way to Jacksonville for that anniversary celebration & another bruce fix...

Stinker!
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1370 on: August 14, 2008, 07:31:59 PM »

What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?


It's possible...

  

BTW, BOYCOTT ARUBA sharon may be on her way to Jacksonville for that anniversary celebration & another bruce fix...

Stinker!


 

Had some addresses for her to check in Ft. L....she should have reminded us!

COLOMBO…Here we go again…Was Paulus a Judge?

And if he wasn’t, who could the Fallen Judge have been…

Which Judge’s plane was delayed? TIA

From the SM Front Page….
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/#comments

arubagirl on June 10th, 2005 11:14 pm

Jerry,
There is also no one to confirm that they’re lying. That’s the problem. A friend of mine went to the HI, and the camera was just over the reception desk, so who knows how much it would have captured even if Natalee came in or not.

Don’t get me wrong, I want this case solved so badly, mostly because I’m tired of hearing people pose themseves as experts on this island when they’ve not even been here. Furthermore, as I understand it, v/d Sloot’s father is NOT a judge, he is jurist / lawyer at the office of Dutch-Aruban liaisons (KABNAA). So, while, yes, he’s probably a big-shot, I’m not too sure that the police actually knew this as they questioned them, since the employees of this departments aren’t well known to the people. Second, I’m not too sure of what goes on in the States, but in criminal cases we are not too concerned “who the daddy be”. It just makes it a bigger deal.
As for the cover-up theory..*sigh*. At this point feelings are running so high that the Crown Prince could have been involved in this, and he would be arrested it, just to get this over with. I really really really doubt that there is a cover-up going on, what with the FBI and whole damn world on their butts.
I personally think that she overdosed in some way, the boys panicked and they dumped her body into the sea. It’s just too evil to think about it, though.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1387.540

USE ME: RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS 3
 
« Reply #543 on: June 14, 2005, 07:21:57 PM » Arubagirl     
van der Straaten, according to his son (who I'm friends with), isn't too fond of KABNAA (=place where v/d Sloot works) nowadays.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-information-viii/#comments

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 8:37 am
Okay, I have 5 hours of sleep.

Just FYI. Latest info: There is NONE. NOTHING. Everybody on the radio is playing (normal) music, the local tv stations are playing their American affiliates (CNN and NBC), it’s all quiet.

You know what I’d really really really like to know from Jim? Why are you so ready to believe that there will be a cover-up? I don’t think that the sentence will match what they would have gotten in the States, true, but I can assure that it’s not as if they’re going to forget this whole thing happened and give the guys community service.

Also, about van der Sloot’s father. From what I understand, he is a jurist / lawyer at the Dutch - Aruban - Netherlands Antilles Liaisons office. (KABNAA). He tried to be a judge, but didn’t make the cut. Promise to update as soon as something happens.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:31 am

Ronald, He is not a “Judge”….YET and I don’t think he will ever be appointed after this….Maximum sentence is 20 to life…Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:33 am Many high profile people have children gone wrong, wont affect appointment necessarily

Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:36 am
Father works for KABNAA, not working in courthouse as a judge

Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:40 am
Father is an attorney, studying for judge which takes 8 years, long road . Father seems to be a very nice guy, soft spoken, very friedly and liked by locals. Son is somethng els of course

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:42 am
Leila, I agree, but looking at the MAGNITUDE and far-reaching implications of this case, I think it will affect the father…..



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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1371 on: August 14, 2008, 08:27:16 PM »

The judge that had his plane delayed was the one that was supposed to come over from Curacao and he had to wait until the next day...was it Smid?  I have forgotten now, but it was all over the news then.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #1372 on: August 14, 2008, 08:28:25 PM »

What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?


It's possible...

  

BTW, BOYCOTT ARUBA sharon may be on her way to Jacksonville for that anniversary celebration & another bruce fix...

Stinker!


 

Had some addresses for her to check in Ft. L....she should have reminded us!

COLOMBO…Here we go again…Was Paulus a Judge?

And if he wasn’t, who could the Fallen Judge have been…

Which Judge’s plane was delayed? TIA

From the SM Front Page….
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/#comments

arubagirl on June 10th, 2005 11:14 pm

Jerry,
There is also no one to confirm that they’re lying. That’s the problem. A friend of mine went to the HI, and the camera was just over the reception desk, so who knows how much it would have captured even if Natalee came in or not.

Don’t get me wrong, I want this case solved so badly, mostly because I’m tired of hearing people pose themseves as experts on this island when they’ve not even been here. Furthermore, as I understand it, v/d Sloot’s father is NOT a judge, he is jurist / lawyer at the office of Dutch-Aruban liaisons (KABNAA). So, while, yes, he’s probably a big-shot, I’m not too sure that the police actually knew this as they questioned them, since the employees of this departments aren’t well known to the people. Second, I’m not too sure of what goes on in the States, but in criminal cases we are not too concerned “who the daddy be”. It just makes it a bigger deal.
As for the cover-up theory..*sigh*. At this point feelings are running so high that the Crown Prince could have been involved in this, and he would be arrested it, just to get this over with. I really really really doubt that there is a cover-up going on, what with the FBI and whole damn world on their butts.
I personally think that she overdosed in some way, the boys panicked and they dumped her body into the sea. It’s just too evil to think about it, though.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1387.540

USE ME: RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS 3
 
« Reply #543 on: June 14, 2005, 07:21:57 PM » Arubagirl     
van der Straaten, according to his son (who I'm friends with), isn't too fond of KABNAA (=place where v/d Sloot works) nowadays.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-information-viii/#comments

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 8:37 am
Okay, I have 5 hours of sleep.

Just FYI. Latest info: There is NONE. NOTHING. Everybody on the radio is playing (normal) music, the local tv stations are playing their American affiliates (CNN and NBC), it’s all quiet.

You know what I’d really really really like to know from Jim? Why are you so ready to believe that there will be a cover-up? I don’t think that the sentence will match what they would have gotten in the States, true, but I can assure that it’s not as if they’re going to forget this whole thing happened and give the guys community service.

Also, about van der Sloot’s father. From what I understand, he is a jurist / lawyer at the Dutch - Aruban - Netherlands Antilles Liaisons office. (KABNAA). He tried to be a judge, but didn’t make the cut. Promise to update as soon as something happens.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:31 am

Ronald, He is not a “Judge”….YET and I don’t think he will ever be appointed after this….Maximum sentence is 20 to life…Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:33 am Many high profile people have children gone wrong, wont affect appointment necessarily

Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:36 am
Father works for KABNAA, not working in courthouse as a judge

Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:40 am
Father is an attorney, studying for judge which takes 8 years, long road . Father seems to be a very nice guy, soft spoken, very friedly and liked by locals. Son is somethng els of course

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:42 am
Leila, I agree, but looking at the MAGNITUDE and far-reaching implications of this case, I think it will affect the father…..





I read several Leila posts as you suggested...yep they do look familiar. LOL
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #1373 on: August 14, 2008, 10:38:32 PM »

Lala’s…Leila and AG…AUA - Another Useless Acronym

Clues on Nativelingo…   

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:54 pm
Natalee’s mother just spotted walking in the renaissance mall. Kid you NOT….

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:56 pm
She’s with a group of people, and looks rather “slow”….decoy?? I can’t imagine that..

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 4:58 pm
No Idea mwood, I own a store in the mall, and 3 other tenants have called me sofar with the same story…. WTH????

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 5:00 pm
Oh, you do native? I was just there today.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 5:02 pm
Been there for 7 years…….

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-comments-post-4/#comments

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:31 pm
Arubagirl….have you ever been to maui?

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 9:49 pm
Arubagirl…..true….I had the same experiences here and in the US

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:27 pm
Arubagirl…astrid is just 14 years old….. a smart 14 yr old

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 10:35 pm
Biggy….r u from aua?

Biggy on June 11th, 2005 10:36 pm
Yes but living across the atlantic for 2 years now








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« Reply #1374 on: August 14, 2008, 11:05:17 PM »

What if we have already met Shango and didn't know it?


It's possible...

  

BTW, BOYCOTT ARUBA sharon may be on her way to Jacksonville for that anniversary celebration & another bruce fix...

Stinker!


 

Had some addresses for her to check in Ft. L....she should have reminded us!

COLOMBO…Here we go again…Was Paulus a Judge?

And if he wasn’t, who could the Fallen Judge have been…

Which Judge’s plane was delayed? TIA

From the SM Front Page….
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/10/natalee-holloway-information-vii/#comments

arubagirl on June 10th, 2005 11:14 pm

Jerry,
There is also no one to confirm that they’re lying. That’s the problem. A friend of mine went to the HI, and the camera was just over the reception desk, so who knows how much it would have captured even if Natalee came in or not.

Don’t get me wrong, I want this case solved so badly, mostly because I’m tired of hearing people pose themseves as experts on this island when they’ve not even been here. Furthermore, as I understand it, v/d Sloot’s father is NOT a judge, he is jurist / lawyer at the office of Dutch-Aruban liaisons (KABNAA). So, while, yes, he’s probably a big-shot, I’m not too sure that the police actually knew this as they questioned them, since the employees of this departments aren’t well known to the people. Second, I’m not too sure of what goes on in the States, but in criminal cases we are not too concerned “who the daddy be”. It just makes it a bigger deal.
As for the cover-up theory..*sigh*. At this point feelings are running so high that the Crown Prince could have been involved in this, and he would be arrested it, just to get this over with. I really really really doubt that there is a cover-up going on, what with the FBI and whole damn world on their butts.
I personally think that she overdosed in some way, the boys panicked and they dumped her body into the sea. It’s just too evil to think about it, though.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1387.540

USE ME: RUMORS OF BREAKING NEWS 3
 
« Reply #543 on: June 14, 2005, 07:21:57 PM » Arubagirl     
van der Straaten, according to his son (who I'm friends with), isn't too fond of KABNAA (=place where v/d Sloot works) nowadays.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/natalee-holloway-information-viii/#comments

arubagirl on June 11th, 2005 8:37 am
Okay, I have 5 hours of sleep.

Just FYI. Latest info: There is NONE. NOTHING. Everybody on the radio is playing (normal) music, the local tv stations are playing their American affiliates (CNN and NBC), it’s all quiet.

You know what I’d really really really like to know from Jim? Why are you so ready to believe that there will be a cover-up? I don’t think that the sentence will match what they would have gotten in the States, true, but I can assure that it’s not as if they’re going to forget this whole thing happened and give the guys community service.

Also, about van der Sloot’s father. From what I understand, he is a jurist / lawyer at the Dutch - Aruban - Netherlands Antilles Liaisons office. (KABNAA). He tried to be a judge, but didn’t make the cut. Promise to update as soon as something happens.

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:31 am

Ronald, He is not a “Judge”….YET and I don’t think he will ever be appointed after this….Maximum sentence is 20 to life…Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:33 am Many high profile people have children gone wrong, wont affect appointment necessarily

Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:36 am
Father works for KABNAA, not working in courthouse as a judge

Leila on June 11th, 2005 11:40 am
Father is an attorney, studying for judge which takes 8 years, long road . Father seems to be a very nice guy, soft spoken, very friedly and liked by locals. Son is somethng els of course

NativeLingo on June 11th, 2005 11:42 am
Leila, I agree, but looking at the MAGNITUDE and far-reaching implications of this case, I think it will affect the father…..





The Fallen Judge and the singing card (DirtyHand) are of the same hand

he walks in many (family) circles

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=73437

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« Reply #1375 on: August 14, 2008, 11:08:46 PM »

lots of Shango in that 
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« Reply #1376 on: August 14, 2008, 11:16:11 PM »

lots of Shango in that 



Will save it for the morning...Goodnight COLOMBO!
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« Reply #1377 on: August 14, 2008, 11:59:08 PM »

Why would the singing card and Dirty Hand be the same person?   
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« Reply #1378 on: August 15, 2008, 07:08:30 AM »

lots of Shango in that 



Will save it for the morning...Goodnight COLOMBO!

Now I am convinced Paulus was never a Judge. So to me he can't be the Fallen Judge....Sorry COLOMBO...

If Lorenzo is our singing card, then I am still leaning towards Judge Leo van Gijn. This is all I can find on him other than one case on prostitution.

GIJN L. , born in August 1954 NLRM 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 NLRM 92
93 94 95 96 97 98
Ministry of Defence Gerechtsauditeur Board of Appeals Civil Service Tribunal Hague on December 20, 1991
Deputy Chairman of the Board of Appeals Civil Service Tribunal Hague on December 20, 1991
Gerechtsauditeur also deputy court Judge-Den Haag l July 1992
Judge Hague court on August 24, 1993
Judge Zutphen court on September 1, 1994
Kantonrechter-alternate Apeldoorn October 10, 1994
Kantonrechter-alternate Groenlo October 10, 1994
Kantonrechter-alternate Harderwijk October 10, 1994
Kantonrechter alternate Terborg-October 10, 1994
Kantonrechter-alternate Zutphen October 10, 1994
NOW NOW
Judge Zutphen Zutphen
Kantonrechter-Substitute Harderwijk Kantonrechter-alternate; active
Apeldoorn Kantonrechter-Substitute
Terborg Kantonrechter-Substitute
Groenlo Kantonrechter-Substitute
ALSO ALSO
Selecteur administrative rulings SDU - publishing Administrative Law Reports
The relationship is exercised in my hometown and is remunerated August 19, 1997

Anyone have the info on Paul van Rijn? Date of birth, place of birth, date of death, birth certificate, death certificate...TIA

If the info on Paulus being a Judge was garbage, it is possible that the VW daddy of Lorenzo was as well.
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MumInOhio
Monkey All Star Jr.
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Posts: 6110


« Reply #1379 on: August 15, 2008, 07:19:08 AM »

Bringing this post of mine forward as I still need help...

Reply #949 on: April 25, 2008, 02:59:29 PM » Rob

Caps there are 5 Dirty Hands

Dirty Hand
DirtyHand
Dirty hand
dirty hand
dirtyhand

Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:44 pm
Babalu opened a window looking into babylon on his 12:31 A.M. Post
DirtyHand is alive


Shango on June 27th, 2005 9:48 pm
Babalu knew who dirty hand was at half past 12

Help! I am a little confused, as usual with Shango and his posts. Isn’t he saying here that DirtyHand and dirty hand are the same person? I like Rob always thought there was 5...now I am not so sure.

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