[b]BEWARE THE CLAIMS OF SPIES

[Tylergal]

Despite Ambassador Joe Wilson's proclamations to the contrary, the Washington Post editorial by Robert Novak in June, 2003, was not the first public disclosure of his wife's role in undercover operations. While allegations of Wilson's own loose lips in the Foxnews green room to two retired military officers has also made recent headlines, AP has learned that Ms. Plame played a key role in the first outing of both herself and the "cover" corporation that she worked for.

Ms. Plame wrote a screen play that was turned into a movie in the early 1980's under the psuedonym "Emmit Fitzhume." The movie included disclosure of CIA insertion operations, selection of operatives, and the name of an until then CIA run agency called the "Ace Tomato Corporation." However, the credits to the movie include her name as the "CIA technical advisor," and her actual role was played by Donna Dixon, a role that used her name.

While Ms. Plame had her lead character use her pseudonym for the screenplay, her part in the operation used the cover of a Red Cross Nurse working in the mountains of Pakistan along the Afghanistan border. Red Cross officials launched an investigation and broke ties with the CIA after the movie to prevent the appearance of impartiality. Plame also drew criticism from the CIA for releasing information about common sexual practices of agents on assignment.

Ms. Plame has said that the screenplay was vetted by the CIA prior to her submission to Warner Brothers films.

The movie, which was titled "Spies like Us," nearly ended the presidency of Ronald Reagan in 1985 due to the disclosure of rogue military officers trying to launch a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. Additionally, the CIA was forced to changed the name of the under cover corporation to the "Acme Tomato Corporation."

Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald has indicated that he was aware of this disclosure, and it was the primary reason that he did not indict any current officials for violations of the Undercover Agent Act.

Neither Chevy Chase nor Dan Akroyd, the producers and lead actors in the film would comment, citing "national security."
 
[/b]

[mrs. red]

Some how this doesn't surprise me.  JW and VP had been photographed endlessly by Vanity Fair well before this supposed outing...   too bad she just got busted getting Joe a spot so he could report and create their agenda ... against the war...

Isn't that what this is really all about?

[LouiseVargas]

"Isn't that what this is really all about?" I hope I'm getting your drift. It's really about Joe Wilson getting it right that Iraq had NOT purchased yellowcake?

[mrs. red]

"Isn't that what this is really all about?" I hope I'm getting your drift. It's really about Joe Wilson getting it right that Iraq had NOT purchased yellowcake?

I don't understand LV... he wasn't right was my point.  I personally believe that with all the hang-wringing that went on and on about getting the UN involved, there was plenty of time to just move them along....

Iran, Syria??

[LouiseVargas]

Mrs. Red,

Forgive me for having several elderly Blonde moments. Scuse me for being confused, are you saying Wilson wasn't right? Yellowcake was really sold?

I knew nothing about Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame until I heard Robert Novak's show. I never heard of "Spies Like Us."

I was shocked that Bush manipulated words in his speech to indicate Iraq had sought to buy yellowcake (indicating Iraq had bought). Yet Joseph Wilson said Iraq did not buy yellowcake. Retaliation against Wilson, outing of Plame.

Indulge this old lady and tell me what this means: "there was plenty of time to just move them along.... Iran, Syria?"

Thank you, Louise

***************************
Sorry, I don't know how to do quotes:

Mrs. Red wrote: "I don't understand LV... he wasn't right was my point. I personally believe that with all the hang-wringing that went on and on about getting the UN involved, there was plenty of time to just move them along....
Iran, Syria??"

In response to my comment: "Isn't that what this is really all about?" I hope I'm getting your drift. It's really about Joe Wilson getting it right that Iraq had NOT purchased yellowcake?"

[Carnut]

Well, now Louise this is definitely gonna get to be political.

From the sources I trust, I believe that Joe Wilson was reporting falsely that there was no Irag interest in yellowcake and I believe other sources which I consider more reliable that there was interest by the Iragis in yellowcake.

It's being reported on in the MSM and on some media websites that the Plame 'outing' was actually done by a state department regular with no political agenda, Richart Armitage

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2375968

Armitage described as a 'no partisan gunslinger'.

And that Novak was not part of a concerted effort to smear Wilson/Plame.

[LouiseVargas]

Carnut,

I've been meaning to thank you so very much for coming over to the Political Thread and posting with me and others. A special thanks for explaining things to me when I don't get it. I trust you to always tell me the truth, whether it is political or whatever.

Please be political. I like political. I like how you think.

Your article blew my mind (an expression from my generation). Joseph was reporting falsely? Oy Vey! I'm shocked! Why did he do that?

And finally, did Iraq purchase yellowcake  

With love,
Louise

[Carnut]

Oh gee, I consider myself very much unpolitical and if this discussion got anywhere near a debate I would have been gone.

In a debate I am totally unarmed.

Well, now I don't think even the Admin claimed that Irag made an actual purchase of yellowcake but that there were discussions and interest in doing so.

I seem to recall that that was the info provided by British intelligence to the admin.

And from that I thought that Joe Wilson came back and reported that there had never even been any interest or discussions with Irag about the yellowcake.
 
Guess my sources would have been what I remember seeing on FOX.

[Carnut]

Why do folks think Joe Wilson reported falsely?

As Tyler posted above, conservatives are certain that Plame and Wilson are both pursuing a political agenda against the admin from the very start.

Kinda why the jokes about how Joe Wilson suspiciously got the call to go to Niger in the first place, his wife's pull in the CIA and their political agenda.

[Anna]

Tyler's article is of course a spoof but I had to read it twice to get it.  

I still contend that desk jockeys at Langley are not undercover.  All one would have to do would be to follow them to work one day.   And the requirement for the period of time since Valerie Plame could have been considered undercover would have to go back to before the birth of her twins as I seriously doubt we use women pregnant with twins for much dangerous undercover work.  

I tend to agree, Carnut, I think those two had this big scandal in mind when she first suggested her hubby for the one to go to Niger to drink sweet tea and never leave his hotel on the so-called investigation of his.  At the least they would promote their agenda and the idea there was no interest in the yellowcake.  You have to be looking to find something.

And at the most if anybody made much of her suggesting her own husband for the job, they could scream foul that she was "outed" for they are a very slick pair.  A win-win situation for that couple.

[LouiseVargas]

Dear Car,

I really know nothing for certain about this case. Since it began, my friend Suzanne, an ex cop in Boulder City has been following the Plame case with an obsession, just like we did in the early days of the Natalee case. She says one thing and you say another thing. She is very invested in the Plame case.

Car, I am just like you. I am very much unpolitical. I cannot debate for I get stage fright. I could never discuss Democrats and Republicans.

Thanks for posting.

Louise

(I don't know how to do quotes)
Carnut wrote: Oh gee, I consider myself very much unpolitical and if this discussion got anywhere near a debate I would have been gone. In a debate I am totally unarmed.

[Carnut]

Actually today in the USA it appears that the 2 political sides are very much set in their postions and beliefs.

It's almost like a marriage gone bad as each side seems to be getting more and more estranged from the other and only believing the info provided by the media 'on their side' that supports their point of view.

The sides seem to be so evenly divided that only a few folks in the middle actually have a chance to swing the popular vote either way in most elections.

Kinds seems like political parties are almost doing a disservice to half the populace at any one time.

[LouiseVargas]

Tyler's artical was a spoof    

Thanks for playing with my mind.  

[Carnut]

Tyler's artical was a spoof    

Thanks for playing with my mind.  

Dunno, but I really like the movie, I have it in my DVD Collection.

[Anna]

.
It is impossible to know from the verbal-only reporting of Joe Wilson if the yellowcake purchase was attempted or not as by his own words he "stayed in the hotel drink, drinking sweet tea" and made little to no effort to actually find out anything one way or the other, just discussed it with those willing to talk to him.

British and Italian intelligence told this country that the questions were asked and interest was shown but we were unable to verify on our own if it was true or not having sent a person with an agenda.

Since Wilson did not even file a written report, he cannot be held accountable but I do believe he gave testimony to the special prosecutor that there was some interest expressed but he had not proof of actual purchases or something to that effect.

In order to find something, one has to be looking, not drinking sweet tea.  Failure of Joe Wilson to find something he did not want nor intend to find from the get go doesn't really prove anything one way or the other.  It was illegal that he was sent in the first place based on his wife's recommendation and he so obviously did not want to find anything that it was totally useless non-investigation on his part.

Those two are dreadful scam artists and they are the ones who should have the special prosecutor after them.  Where is his apology to Karl Rove for all the lies he told about that man for example?  Said he wanted to see Rove handcuffed and "frog-marched" out of the White House and all that book-selling outrage he manufactured just as they manufactured this whole fake scandal.  They are a disgrace to the intelligence and diplomatic community and are now receiving the scorn they so richly deserve.

Just my thoughts on the fake outing of desk-jockey and not secret agent Plame.  Gee, I wonder if Joe will have to get a real job now or if Valerie is going to be stuck supporting the whole family forever.

[LouiseVargas]

Thanks, Anna.

My reaction: Oh My!                    

[LouiseVargas]

As I mentioned previously, I have a friend in San Francisco who is following the Plame case like a hawk. I am interested in the case but not invested. Anyway, because Suzanne is my friend, when I read something I think is important, I copy and paste and send it to her. Then she sends me back a lot of links to disprove what I sent her. I don't read them. I just sent her what Anna wrote and she sent me these links back. I don't know who Marcy Wheeler is. Do you?

From Suzanne:

marcy wheeler is my plame go to person... here are her recent posts debunking this
http://tinyurl.com/mb9wh

http://tinyurl.com/zcxxt

and especially this one re she was just a desk jockey crap...
http://tinyurl.com/lbfok

debunking the runaway prosecutor claims
http://tinyurl.com/m7lkl

http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/2006/09/primary_source_.html#more

http://tinyurl.com/kxne2

marcy will be fast tracking a book about wilson/plame set to be in stores before the libby trial. it was just announced yesterday and will be published with donations being fundraised at firedoglake.  interesting stuff going all around the lake these days.

[Anna]

.
I guess my inside person to go to would be my oldest son who works in the intelligence community and is a career officer there.  I tend to take his word on things but then a mother would.  

[LouiseVargas]

Anna,

I just want to make sure you know "I" have no argument with you. I was only trying to help make my friend see the Plame case is over. This case is her passion and she won't go down easily.

Thanks.