Natalee Case Discussion #756 6/5 -6/8/08

[Destiny]

Everything about that shoe bothers me. Doesn't it stand to reason that those in charge of the cover up would have disposed of that shoe three years ago if it really was any sort of evidence? 

Not if...as Deepak stated...*help me Janet*....that he would go back and pick them up for Urine....

[BTgirl]

Well, I have run out of pens and paper today....I am exhausted! Where's Robots when you need him??

[Lala'sMom]

Thanks for the hug. LOL

[Destiny]

Good Morning Cage Mates....Hello Chuckierat...do you feel like you're coming out of a dark place...can you see the light.....that light is called...truth....hope some of it rubs off on you over there....chuckie...use your new found power wisely...you might be able to redeem yourself yet...methinks meeting Beth in person had an impact on you...one can only hope...

Destiny

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Hello MonkeyMates,  I've been missing in action for awhile.  My stepmother died in Oct, now my Dad is in the hospital. Me, I broke my big toe 4 weeks ago by dropping a 100# weight on it at the gym.  I've lost 120 # so far and hope to lose the rest down to my normal weight. Other than that I'm doing great, still thinking about Natalee daily and wishing that Aruba would do the right thing and prosecute Joran and PvdS.  I hope to be able to read here more and keep up with what little is still going on in her case.  I screamed for joy at the gym when they announced they had rearrested the trio.  Too bad they didn't throw them under the rat infested, cockroach crawling KIA. No that would be to good for them.......javascript:void(0);
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Sunfreak.....many Prayers...for You and Your Family....lighting a blue cadle for you today....

((((((((((((((Sunfreak)))))))))))))))

Bless You Darlin'.......Bet you feel soooo much more confident in yourSELF!!!

[SS]

I have a few nagging and unresolved questions that may or may not be also nagging some of you.  I feel that we are hanging in mid-air with some of these questions, and I really don't even know how we can even get answers.

- Where is Joran right now?  It bothers me when he is under the radar. I HAVEN'T A CLUE BUT I SUSPECT IN THE NL
- Does anyone have any advanced information from Patrick's novel? NO
- There were vague hints about important information associated with the pond.   Does    anyone have any idea what any of this was about?  IT WAS SEARCHED BECAUSE OF A WITNESS/TIP - THAT'S ALL I KNOW RIGHT NOW
- Do we have any clue who could have put that shoe near the lighthouse? (other than a possible publicity stunt by Patrick) NO - HOW WOULD WE KNOW?  WHY WOULD YOU ASSUME IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH PATRICK?
- Have there been any responses to Destiny's appeal for help?  DESTINY APPEALED FOR HELP REGARDING THE SHOE WHICH SHE GOT - I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY OTHER APPEALS - PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF THERE ARE OTHER APPEALS
- What is the status of locating the larger ROV to finish checking the identified targets? I BELIEVE THE PROBLEM IS FUNDING AND NOT "LOCATING" A LARGER ROV
- Has anything more come from the angry young woman who we presume to be Melody? NO - NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF
- What has happened to Beth's civil action in the Netherlands?  I HAVE NO IDEA - I'M SURE IF AND WHEN THERE IS ANYTHING TO TELL WE WILL ALL HEAR ABOUT IT

Just a few thoughts that have been floating around in my head.

My answers in red above

Thanks Klass.  I should have said Destiny's letter instead of her appeal.  Has there been any response from the "streets" of Aruba?

[San]

My sister just gave me a T-Shirt that said "I used to have a handle on life, but it broke."   

[klaasend]

SS - as far as a response to the letter/appeal in Diario, I doubt we will hear anything directly.  If we hear anything it will probably be in the news. 

[klaasend]

My sister just gave me a T-Shirt that said "I used to have a handle on life, but it broke."   

 

[Tamikosmom]

Everything about that shoe bothers me. Doesn't it stand to reason that those in charge of the cover up would have disposed of that shoe three years ago if it really was any sort of evidence? 

Not if...as Deepak stated...*help me Janet*....that he would go back and pick them up for Urine....

Destiny

Deepak and Satish claim that they dropped Natalee and Joran off at the beach and ... that was it.  I do not know when Deepak would have stated that he returned to the beach to retrieve Joran shoes.

Janet
___________


JORAN VAN DER SLOOT - REVEALED DECLARATIONS

Joran Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

I wore a white/blue shirt, a blue/white jeans trouser or a three-quart black trouser and a couple of white shoes or crème coloured boots.


Joran Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 14, 2005

While we were walking I noticed there was sand in my shoes. I took off my shoes and my socks. I had placed my socks in my shoes and walked with my shoes in my hand further on the beach.


Joran Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 14, 2005

A little further along we sat down on the beach. It was close to the waters edge in front of the Marriot Hotel. There I had placed my shoes on the sand.


Joran Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 14, 2005

I told Deepak that I left my shoes at the Marriot Hotel. Deepak told me not to worry that he would go back the next day and pick them up for me. I had left a pair of white and blue shoes of the make "K-Swiss", size "14" on the beach. These shoes I bought in the USA.


Joran Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 14, 2005

I had asked Deepak if he could pick up the shoes I left behind at the beach. Deepak told me that he would immediately go and get them. Then Deepak drove off.


Joran Van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 14, 2005

I walked along the same route that Deepak had taken to drop off me and Natalee. At the beach of the Marriot I tried for a little while to find my shoes. They were nowhere to be found. I looked for about two minutes. Then I walked over the beach to the Wyndham Hotel.


DEEPAK KALPOE - REVEALED DECLARATIONS
 
Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 11, 2005

After that he said that he was walking home barefoot. I then said, what do you mean, you are walking home barefoot and I asked him where his sneakers/sport shoes were. He answered that he had left his sneakers/sport shoes at the beach.


Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 11, 2005

I also have to tell you that Joran was wearing white sneakers/sport shoes that night. If you search/investigate his home then you will see that the shoes aren't there. He had told me that he had theft them on the beach.


Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 13, 2005

Freddie asked him why he had left his sport-shoes there. I do not know what Joran had said, but he came up with an excuse as to why he had and they he walked outside.


Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 29, 2005

On your question whether I thought it strange that Joran had left his sport-shoes on the beach, I can say the following. I did find it strange, but they were his shoes so not my problem.


SATISH KALPOE - REVEALED DECLARATIONS

Satish Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 11, 2005

Joran told my brother that he had looked to find his shoes but that he couldn't find them. Joran told my brother that he had left the girl on the beach and that he had walked home barefoot.


Satish Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 11, 2005

My brother woke up around 1 p.m. I asked him how Joran did get home during the night. He told me Joran had called him while walking in the direction to his home. He told me Joran told him he walked bare feet because he left the shoes at the beach.


Satish Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 11, 2005

My brother and I asked Joran what really happened with the missing girl. Joran told us that they had gone on the beach. He took his shoes off.

+++++++++++

THE JORAN/TWAN HUYS INTERVIEW

Joran van der Sloot
Nova Interview - Twan Huys
February 26/27, 2006
 
Joran van der Sloot: ... And she went with us and she wanted to be left on the beach. She wanted me to stay with her, but I had to go to school the next day and I told her I had to go and eventually I called one of my friends and he picked me up and I went home. 

Reporter: Who picked you up? 

Joran van der Sloot: Deepak's brother Satish.

http://scrux.com/transcripts/novajoranfeb18.htm


THE GRETA/JORAN INTERVIEW

Joran Van der Sloot
On the Record w/ Greta
March 3, 2006

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, so she was asking me to stay and I told her I really had to go so, you know, for me to bring her back to her hotel and then I said at the end, I said "OK, well I'm going to call Deepak to come pick me up." And so, I walked right there.

There's the fisherman's hut. There's a little — because there's a lot of wind there on the beach, so I walked right next to that and that's where I called him from. And I — I asked him — I asked him to come pick me up. Then it was his brother that came to pick me up but I asked him to come pick me up ...

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you say "Where's Deepak"?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, that was — of course that was the first reaction when I — when I came there. I walked over and I sat in the car and I was like, you know, "Where's Deepak"? He said, "Oh, he's at home on his computer."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186581,00.html

[San]

Everything about that shoe bothers me. Doesn't it stand to reason that those in charge of the cover up would have disposed of that shoe three years ago if it really was any sort of evidence? 

Not if...as Deepak stated...*help me Janet*....that he would go back and pick them up for Urine....

Destiny

Deepak and Satish claim that they dropped Natalee and Joran off at the beach and ... that was it.  I do not know when Deepak would have stated that he returned to the beach to retrieve Joran shoes.

Janet
___________


{Edited}

I believe it was Joran who stated that one of the brothers would retrieve the sneakers.

In a different interview.

[San]

From Joran's book translation:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

"Around 3:30 am Satish drops me off at my house. I have left my shoes on
the beach. Satish tells me he will go get them the next day. (note, on
page 171 Joran says that in his June 19 statement he first admitted it
was Satish who picked him up instead of Deepak). "

[klaasend]

From Joran's book:

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=617

CHAPTER 11 Breakthrough by Best Friend Freddy

152

The police began interviewing Joran's friends, including Fredy. This "annoyed" Joran because he felt that Freddy was only involved because he was Joran's friend.

Freddy's June 12th statement as set out in the book:

I am Joran’s best friend and neighbor. We got to know each other about two years ago. Joran and I practice sports together a lot, that is how we became good friends. Monday afternoon May 30th Joran came to my house. He told me that, the day before, Sunday, in the Holiday Inn Casino, he met a girl and she had asked him to come to Carlos 'n Charlies in the evening.

He went and they have danced there and have drunk. After that he has driven away with Deepak, Satish and the girl. Her friends saw that. They drove in the direction of the lighthouse; a white car drove behind them and probably wanted to race against Deepak. But Deepak would never do such a thing.

Joran told (me)that he had fingered and kissed the girl. He did not say he had sex with the girl. They drove towards the lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove until the lighthouse, because his car was low and could not drive to the north side of Aruba.

P153

The girl said that if the Kalpoe brothers would had lived in her city, they would have been slaves. After this they drove to the hotel. When the girl opened the door of the car she fell on the ground. Joran wanted to help her, but she pushed him away. [...]

The next day, Tuesday May 31st, 2005 in the afternoon I was with Joran at the Racquet Club. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I remembered what he told me about the girl the day before, I said yes. The girl appeared to be missing.

The FBI was at his home at night, but he wasn't there. His father phoned as to where he was, Joran said in the Radisson Casino. He told that after the phone call he was called by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Jorans house. The FBI and family of the girl were at his home.

After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and he didn't drop off the missing girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the four of them had driven to the beach north of the Mariott Hotel. The girl fell multiple times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point the girl didn't recover anymore and that they had left her on the beach. He also told that he left his sport shoes on the beach. After Joran told me this I asked him why he had left her behind. He answered me that he didn't know what to do at that moment.

Joran told me that after that he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish.

On Friday evening June 3rd, I met Joran at his house. [...] He told me that during this period he could not remember if they bought food or did something else.

P. 154

Joran characterizes Freddy's statement as remarkable, primarily because it was only in the night of May 30th May 31st that Joran concocted the HI drop off story as until he learned Natalee was missing, he had no reason to lie about his leaving Natalee on the beach.

Joran believes Freddy got the dates wrong and that he told Freddy the lie on May 31st. Joran denies having stated that the girl fell unconscious and that "we" left her on the beach. Joran does not consider the mistakes strange as witnesses often have problems concerning dates, events from almost two weeks earlier.

That night (presumably the 12th) Freddy and his parents visited the VDS parents and Freddy told them and Antonio Carlo what had happened.

Freddy (verbatim):

I could see on Anita's face that she did not know Joran had left the girl on the beach and that he has lost his shoes. I also told that Joran, Deepak, Satish and me had talked about it that I would buy new shoes for Joran. Anita couldn’t believe what I was telling her (as in amazed)."

Carlo quizzed Freddy about a number of details including Joran's abandoning his shoes. Freddy's explanation was that Joran "did not want to walk with his shoes on the beach and probably he left them behind because of that.

P. 155

Freddy again told his version of his and Joran's May 30th conversation. Carlo constantly asks Freddy why Freddy thought Joran said or did what Freddy was relating Joran said or did.

Paulus says nothing to Freddy but did ask Anita "Why does Joran lie, and why did he not tell us.

Carlo visits Joran at Jail and confronts him with Freddy's statement. At this point Joran admits that he had lied and that "Freddy was telling the truth."

Joran claims that he became heartsick after seeing his mother outside the jail crying.

On Monday June 13th, the police tried to turn Joran against the Kalpoes, tellling him that "Deepak says bad things about you. Jacobs also repeatedly said "Deepak and Satish tell us you did something bad, Joran don't forget that and concider this carefully."

P. 156

Jacobs also says that he does not believe the Kalpoes, but believes Joran. "Since they are brothers, brothers stick together. They'll turn against you when it's in their benefit. what do you think is more important family or friends."

Joran became confused. He didn't know what happened to Natalee. He was in jail and was lying and now the Kalpoes are lying about him, so the only possibility is that they did something to the girl. Why would the Kalpoes speak badly about Joran when they said they did nothig bad to the girl.

Van der Straaten arrives and tells Joran that he "has known your father for years. I only want to help you. I am going to see to it that you can go to Holland, that you will not have to go to jail, but that you will be committed to a mental institution. You only have to tell the truth."

Van Der Stratten's PV of June 13th, as excerpted in the book, reads as follows:

On my question to Joran if he can tell what happened after the girl had fallen asleep at the Fisherman's huts, he answers: “I called Deepak and he came with two dogs. I think he raped the girl and done something to her.”

P157

On my question where the girl then is buried, he answers: I think she’s buried next to the Fisherman's Huts, other then that I wouldn’t know.

Joran says that this is an example of the way the police can put words in your mouth and in a credibility contest, the police commissioner would prevail over Joran

Joran claims the police could manufacture statements and that the police would go pretty far afield. "We" even considered the possibilituy that the police would plant evidence to close the case given the pressure they were under.

I propose Joran to answer the following question with just yes or no. I ask Joran if the girl was thrown into the sea? He answers: “No, I mean, I don't know.” During the conversation Joran shows varying emotions. Sometimes he cries, sometimes he is very direct in his answers. Joran also indicated he felt very sorry for his family, and that he is having the best contact with his father. I ask him why he then has lied to his father about the Holiday Inn. Joran responds that he has disappointed his father by doing so.

On June 13th, Joran withdraws his previous statements that Deepak dropped Natalee off by himself at the Holiday Inn. Joran says that his third statement was not entirely the truth and that "I am now willing to tell the full truth" which is as follows:

P. 158.

That Deepak, Satish and Natalee early morning have driven to my house is true. Deepak drives, Satish sits besides him, and Natalee and I are on the backseat. Around 1:40AM we stop in front of my house. I ask her if she want to come with me to my apartment, because I want to sleep with her. I would after that call a cab for her that would bring her to the hotel. Natalee does not want to enter, but she all of a sudden wants to see sharks at North coast. She speaks normal and her eyes are normal also, but she was a little drunk and often fell half asleep.

Then we pass her hotel, but she does not want to go there. I tell Deepak to drop us off at the Fisherman's huts. It is my intention to walk back from there to the Holiday Inn and have sex on the way. She leans on me after we got out of the car and while kissing we walk into the direction of the Holiday Inn, but Natalee wants to walk into the other direction.

When we arrive at the Fisherman's huts we kiss. She wants to stay sleeping on the beach, I want to go home, I have try-exams the next day. I tell her I have to go home and that I am walking with her into the direction of the hotel. Natalee does not want to go back to her hotel, she wants me to to stay with her looking at the stars and tells me again that she does not want to go home. I lift her up and walk a while, but she wants me to put her down.

Around 3:00 AM I call Deepak and ask him to pick me up. He asks where the girl is. I say that she is sleeping on the beach and does not want to listen to me. He would come immediately.

P159

I wake her up and tell her that I am going to bring her to her hotel.  She refuses and continues to sleep. I think if it is not better to lift her up and take her with me. I am lying next to Natalee thinking for 10 minutes, while she sleeps. I do not say anything to her, because her eyes are closed.

When I hear Deepak's car arrive I wake her up again, and still she doesn’t want to come to with me to her hotel. I get up and walk to the car. I tell Satish that Natalee is sleeping on the beach. Satish answers: “Don't f*** with that bitch, someone will find her tomorrow.”

Around 3:30AM Satish drops me off at my house. I have left my shoes on the beach. Satish tells me he will go get them the next day.

To your question about what happened to Natalee, I answer you that I don’t know. If Deepak and Satish don’t know what happened to Natalee, then I don’t know it either."

The police confront Joran with Freddy's statements. Joran insists that he first told Freddy the HI story on June 1st in the presence of Deepak and Satish. Freddy had stated that Joran told him the HI story on May 30th and the story that all three had left Natalee on the beach on May 31st.

The PV continues:

Page 160

You are informing me that Freddy has stated that I told him the first story on May 30th 2005 in the afternoon. In response to your question if that is true I answer you that this could be true. You are informing me that Freddy is stating that I told him Natalee went unconscious several times on the way to the beach of the Marriott Hotel. That she at a certain moment did not regain consciousness and that we have left her on the beach. I don't know what to answer to this, because according to me, I did not tell the story to Freddy this way.

That Freddy has stated that we did not know what to do when she did not recover and that we then left her on the beach and that I left my sport shoes behind, that is not correct. This did not happen this way. I have left my sport shoes at the Marriott beach. I think Freddy did not correctly understand what I told him.

In a second statement on June 13th, Freddy "keeps insisting" that Joran told him the HI story on May 30th. In his sixth and seventh statements Freddy repeated that Joran had unsuccesfully tried to revive an unconsious Natalee and that Joran thought that a black tourist couple on the beach would look after Natalee.

P. 161

The excerpt from Freddy's statement is as follows:

During the entire conversation Joran spoke of "we" not "I", also when he said that "we" had left the girl behind. Joran did not tell me the girl was dead. He never used the word "dead".

He also did not say if he checked her wrists to see if she still had a pulse, and if she was still breathing. I got the impression he was assuming that he had left her behind alive. He also did not tell me that other people had come to him. Joran does not use drugs. Joran also did not tell me that he had given the girl drugs or that he saw her using drugs.

Joran claims that Freddy was terrified because as a Venezuelan, he could have been deported from Aruba. He became a "puppet" and did everything he could to avoid arrest. Freddy's family was also concerned and panicked and in Joran's opinion, the police put words in Freddy's mouth.

In describing the PV's Joran explains that they are typed out in Dutch and the mother tongue of the person giving the statement (in Freddy's case Papiamento). This leads to some errors and the deponents are not given sufficient time to review the statements thoroughly or perhaps do not understand the statements if they are in Dutch.

Joran claims that bricklayer stated that he saw Joran rape Natalee and strangle her with a scarf, which along with a condom were now in Venezuela.

P 162

It turns out this man told this story to get some cash from Jossy Mansur and later admitted to the police that he lied.
[/quote]

[Observer]

AMS vip Mansion Cocktail Party @ The Mansur Residence 6Juni


http://www.coolaruba.com/component/option,com_gallery2/Itemid,28/?g2_itemId=400546

The guy on the far right reminds me of this bushy eyebrow fellow 
http://clubarias.com/testimonials6.html

[Tamikosmom]

Everything about that shoe bothers me. Doesn't it stand to reason that those in charge of the cover up would have disposed of that shoe three years ago if it really was any sort of evidence? 

Not if...as Deepak stated...*help me Janet*....that he would go back and pick them up for Urine....

Destiny

Deepak and Satish claim that they dropped Natalee and Joran off at the beach and ... that was it.  I do not know when Deepak would have stated that he returned to the beach to retrieve Joran shoes.

Janet
___________


{Edited}

I believe it was Joran who stated that one of the brothers would retrieve the sneakers.

In a different interview.

San ... can you recall which interview that Joran stated the either Deepak and Satish dropped him off and then returned to look for his shoes?  I could only find Joran stating that in the revealed  declarations (see above).

Anyways ... the implication by Joran is that there may have been an encounter with Natalee Holloway by one of the Kalpoe brothers after Joran was dropped off.

Janet

[San]

Everything about that shoe bothers me. Doesn't it stand to reason that those in charge of the cover up would have disposed of that shoe three years ago if it really was any sort of evidence? 

Not if...as Deepak stated...*help me Janet*....that he would go back and pick them up for Urine....

Destiny

Deepak and Satish claim that they dropped Natalee and Joran off at the beach and ... that was it.  I do not know when Deepak would have stated that he returned to the beach to retrieve Joran shoes.

Janet
___________


{Edited}

I believe it was Joran who stated that one of the brothers would retrieve the sneakers.

In a different interview.

San ... can you recall which interview that Joran stated the either Deepak and Satish dropped him off and then returned to look for his shoes?  I could only find Joran stating that in the revealed  declarations (see above).

Anyways ... the implication by Joran is that there may have been an encounter with Natalee Holloway by one of the Kalpoe brothers after Joran was dropped off.

Janet

Sorry Janet it was in his book not an interview.

[Tamikosmom]

From Joran's book:

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=617

CHAPTER 11 Breakthrough by Best Friend Freddy

152

The police began interviewing Joran's friends, including Fredy. This "annoyed" Joran because he felt that Freddy was only involved because he was Joran's friend.

Freddy's June 12th statement as set out in the book:

I am Joran’s best friend and neighbor. We got to know each other about two years ago. Joran and I practice sports together a lot, that is how we became good friends. Monday afternoon May 30th Joran came to my house. He told me that, the day before, Sunday, in the Holiday Inn Casino, he met a girl and she had asked him to come to Carlos 'n Charlies in the evening.

He went and they have danced there and have drunk. After that he has driven away with Deepak, Satish and the girl. Her friends saw that. They drove in the direction of the lighthouse; a white car drove behind them and probably wanted to race against Deepak. But Deepak would never do such a thing.

Joran told (me)that he had fingered and kissed the girl. He did not say he had sex with the girl. They drove towards the lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove until the lighthouse, because his car was low and could not drive to the north side of Aruba.

P153

The girl said that if the Kalpoe brothers would had lived in her city, they would have been slaves. After this they drove to the hotel. When the girl opened the door of the car she fell on the ground. Joran wanted to help her, but she pushed him away. [...]

The next day, Tuesday May 31st, 2005 in the afternoon I was with Joran at the Racquet Club. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I remembered what he told me about the girl the day before, I said yes. The girl appeared to be missing.

The FBI was at his home at night, but he wasn't there. His father phoned as to where he was, Joran said in the Radisson Casino. He told that after the phone call he was called by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Jorans house. The FBI and family of the girl were at his home.

After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and he didn't drop off the missing girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the four of them had driven to the beach north of the Mariott Hotel. The girl fell multiple times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point the girl didn't recover anymore and that they had left her on the beach. He also told that he left his sport shoes on the beach. After Joran told me this I asked him why he had left her behind. He answered me that he didn't know what to do at that moment.

Joran told me that after that he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish.

On Friday evening June 3rd, I met Joran at his house. [...] He told me that during this period he could not remember if they bought food or did something else.

P. 154

Joran characterizes Freddy's statement as remarkable, primarily because it was only in the night of May 30th May 31st that Joran concocted the HI drop off story as until he learned Natalee was missing, he had no reason to lie about his leaving Natalee on the beach.

Joran believes Freddy got the dates wrong and that he told Freddy the lie on May 31st. Joran denies having stated that the girl fell unconscious and that "we" left her on the beach. Joran does not consider the mistakes strange as witnesses often have problems concerning dates, events from almost two weeks earlier.

That night (presumably the 12th) Freddy and his parents visited the VDS parents and Freddy told them and Antonio Carlo what had happened.

Freddy (verbatim):

I could see on Anita's face that she did not know Joran had left the girl on the beach and that he has lost his shoes. I also told that Joran, Deepak, Satish and me had talked about it that I would buy new shoes for Joran. Anita couldn’t believe what I was telling her (as in amazed)."

Carlo quizzed Freddy about a number of details including Joran's abandoning his shoes. Freddy's explanation was that Joran "did not want to walk with his shoes on the beach and probably he left them behind because of that.

P. 155

Freddy again told his version of his and Joran's May 30th conversation. Carlo constantly asks Freddy why Freddy thought Joran said or did what Freddy was relating Joran said or did.

Paulus says nothing to Freddy but did ask Anita "Why does Joran lie, and why did he not tell us.

Carlo visits Joran at Jail and confronts him with Freddy's statement. At this point Joran admits that he had lied and that "Freddy was telling the truth."

Joran claims that he became heartsick after seeing his mother outside the jail crying.

On Monday June 13th, the police tried to turn Joran against the Kalpoes, tellling him that "Deepak says bad things about you. Jacobs also repeatedly said "Deepak and Satish tell us you did something bad, Joran don't forget that and concider this carefully."

P. 156

Jacobs also says that he does not believe the Kalpoes, but believes Joran. "Since they are brothers, brothers stick together. They'll turn against you when it's in their benefit. what do you think is more important family or friends."

Joran became confused. He didn't know what happened to Natalee. He was in jail and was lying and now the Kalpoes are lying about him, so the only possibility is that they did something to the girl. Why would the Kalpoes speak badly about Joran when they said they did nothig bad to the girl.

Van der Straaten arrives and tells Joran that he "has known your father for years. I only want to help you. I am going to see to it that you can go to Holland, that you will not have to go to jail, but that you will be committed to a mental institution. You only have to tell the truth."

Van Der Stratten's PV of June 13th, as excerpted in the book, reads as follows:

On my question to Joran if he can tell what happened after the girl had fallen asleep at the Fisherman's huts, he answers: “I called Deepak and he came with two dogs. I think he raped the girl and done something to her.”

P157

On my question where the girl then is buried, he answers: I think she’s buried next to the Fisherman's Huts, other then that I wouldn’t know.

Joran says that this is an example of the way the police can put words in your mouth and in a credibility contest, the police commissioner would prevail over Joran

Joran claims the police could manufacture statements and that the police would go pretty far afield. "We" even considered the possibilituy that the police would plant evidence to close the case given the pressure they were under.

I propose Joran to answer the following question with just yes or no. I ask Joran if the girl was thrown into the sea? He answers: “No, I mean, I don't know.” During the conversation Joran shows varying emotions. Sometimes he cries, sometimes he is very direct in his answers. Joran also indicated he felt very sorry for his family, and that he is having the best contact with his father. I ask him why he then has lied to his father about the Holiday Inn. Joran responds that he has disappointed his father by doing so.

On June 13th, Joran withdraws his previous statements that Deepak dropped Natalee off by himself at the Holiday Inn. Joran says that his third statement was not entirely the truth and that "I am now willing to tell the full truth" which is as follows:

P. 158.

That Deepak, Satish and Natalee early morning have driven to my house is true. Deepak drives, Satish sits besides him, and Natalee and I are on the backseat. Around 1:40AM we stop in front of my house. I ask her if she want to come with me to my apartment, because I want to sleep with her. I would after that call a cab for her that would bring her to the hotel. Natalee does not want to enter, but she all of a sudden wants to see sharks at North coast. She speaks normal and her eyes are normal also, but she was a little drunk and often fell half asleep.

Then we pass her hotel, but she does not want to go there. I tell Deepak to drop us off at the Fisherman's huts. It is my intention to walk back from there to the Holiday Inn and have sex on the way. She leans on me after we got out of the car and while kissing we walk into the direction of the Holiday Inn, but Natalee wants to walk into the other direction.

When we arrive at the Fisherman's huts we kiss. She wants to stay sleeping on the beach, I want to go home, I have try-exams the next day. I tell her I have to go home and that I am walking with her into the direction of the hotel. Natalee does not want to go back to her hotel, she wants me to to stay with her looking at the stars and tells me again that she does not want to go home. I lift her up and walk a while, but she wants me to put her down.

Around 3:00 AM I call Deepak and ask him to pick me up. He asks where the girl is. I say that she is sleeping on the beach and does not want to listen to me. He would come immediately.

P159

I wake her up and tell her that I am going to bring her to her hotel.  She refuses and continues to sleep. I think if it is not better to lift her up and take her with me. I am lying next to Natalee thinking for 10 minutes, while she sleeps. I do not say anything to her, because her eyes are closed.

When I hear Deepak's car arrive I wake her up again, and still she doesn’t want to come to with me to her hotel. I get up and walk to the car. I tell Satish that Natalee is sleeping on the beach. Satish answers: “Don't f*** with that bitch, someone will find her tomorrow.”

Around 3:30AM Satish drops me off at my house. I have left my shoes on the beach. Satish tells me he will go get them the next day.

To your question about what happened to Natalee, I answer you that I don’t know. If Deepak and Satish don’t know what happened to Natalee, then I don’t know it either."

The police confront Joran with Freddy's statements. Joran insists that he first told Freddy the HI story on June 1st in the presence of Deepak and Satish. Freddy had stated that Joran told him the HI story on May 30th and the story that all three had left Natalee on the beach on May 31st.

The PV continues:

Page 160

You are informing me that Freddy has stated that I told him the first story on May 30th 2005 in the afternoon. In response to your question if that is true I answer you that this could be true. You are informing me that Freddy is stating that I told him Natalee went unconscious several times on the way to the beach of the Marriott Hotel. That she at a certain moment did not regain consciousness and that we have left her on the beach. I don't know what to answer to this, because according to me, I did not tell the story to Freddy this way.

That Freddy has stated that we did not know what to do when she did not recover and that we then left her on the beach and that I left my sport shoes behind, that is not correct. This did not happen this way. I have left my sport shoes at the Marriott beach. I think Freddy did not correctly understand what I told him.

In a second statement on June 13th, Freddy "keeps insisting" that Joran told him the HI story on May 30th. In his sixth and seventh statements Freddy repeated that Joran had unsuccesfully tried to revive an unconsious Natalee and that Joran thought that a black tourist couple on the beach would look after Natalee.

P. 161

The excerpt from Freddy's statement is as follows:

During the entire conversation Joran spoke of "we" not "I", also when he said that "we" had left the girl behind. Joran did not tell me the girl was dead. He never used the word "dead".

He also did not say if he checked her wrists to see if she still had a pulse, and if she was still breathing. I got the impression he was assuming that he had left her behind alive. He also did not tell me that other people had come to him. Joran does not use drugs. Joran also did not tell me that he had given the girl drugs or that he saw her using drugs.

Joran claims that Freddy was terrified because as a Venezuelan, he could have been deported from Aruba. He became a "puppet" and did everything he could to avoid arrest. Freddy's family was also concerned and panicked and in Joran's opinion, the police put words in Freddy's mouth.

In describing the PV's Joran explains that they are typed out in Dutch and the mother tongue of the person giving the statement (in Freddy's case Papiamento). This leads to some errors and the deponents are not given sufficient time to review the statements thoroughly or perhaps do not understand the statements if they are in Dutch.

Joran claims that bricklayer stated that he saw Joran rape Natalee and strangle her with a scarf, which along with a condom were now in Venezuela.

P 162

It turns out this man told this story to get some cash from Jossy Mansur and later admitted to the police that he lied.

[/quote]

Thank you Klaas.

I suspect that originally Joran's shoes were meant as a catalyst for implicating Deepak in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway after Joran claimed he was picked up from the beach and ... dropped off at home.  The implication ... Deepak returned to the beach to look for the shoes and ... there was an encounter with Natalee Holloway.

However ... both Deepak and Joran deny returning to the beach to pick up Joran.

Anyways ... when you consider Freddy's statement above and ... the gardener's testimony ... Deepak and Satish never dropped Natalee and Joran off at the beach ... all three were together at the Marriot beach with Natalee.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

From Joran's book translation:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1097.0

"Around 3:30 am Satish drops me off at my house. I have left my shoes on
the beach. Satish tells me he will go get them the next day. (note, on
page 171 Joran says that in his June 19 statement he first admitted it
was Satish who picked him up instead of Deepak). "

Thanks San.

I keep forgetting about Joran's book.

Janet

[SS]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186707,00.html

VAN DER SLOOT: At that point, I was with her still at the beach, and I told her that I had to take her — to take her back to her hotel, that really — she really had to go back to her hotel because I really had to go — I really had to go to school the next day. And she was just, like — she thought that I would stay there with her, and that's what she — and that's (INAUDIBLE) probably what I — what I should have done. That's the one thing that I did — that I did wrong, you know, to leave her there without her — without actually saying I was going to leave her there. And yes, it just...

VAN SUSTEREN: You left without your shoes. How do you — how do you explain that?

VAN DER SLOOT: We walked onto the — on the beach in the beginning, and where we sat down there, then, I had taken off my shoes. And because, when you walk in, it was the exact same shoes that I'm wearing now.
VAN SUSTEREN: Same kind?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, exactly.

VAN SUSTEREN: Or those aren't the shoes?

VAN DER SLOOT: No, no. Those aren't the shoes...

VAN SUSTEREN: Those are the same kind.

VAN DER SLOOT: ... but those are the exact same kinds.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right.

VAN DER SLOOT: The same size, too. And — no, and so when I was on the beach, I had taken them off there, not to get sand into them. And that's where — you know, where we — were we started walking the other way. I always thought we'd go back, and that's where I'd left my shoes. And then the point in the car when we said, You know, we're going to leave, then, yes, we just left and I didn't really care about my shoes anymore.

VAN SUSTEREN: You hadn't realized — I mean, in order to — I mean, to walk that 900 feet that's — you know, you're walking through the sand and a little bit on pavement, where the car is, right?

VAN DER SLOOT: No, it's just sand, and then it comes right to the pavement. So no, I knew I didn't have my shoes with me. That's (INAUDIBLE)

VAN SUSTEREN: It didn't bother you?

VAN DER SLOOT: It didn't bother me. I mean, when he said — I wasn't planning on leaving right away. It was that action that took place there that we're, like, OK, you know, let's go. And then that's when we left.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you — you didn't say to Satish, Look, I got to go get my shoes?

VAN DER SLOOT: No, that's when — of course, I should have, but no.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did Natalee take off her shoes?

VAN DER SLOOT: I don't remember. I think she had sandals on. I don't know. I think she was wearing — yes. yes, she did.

VAN SUSTEREN: She did.

VAN DER SLOOT: She had her — yes, she left her sandals there, too.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she walk in the water with you?

VAN DER SLOOT: We didn't walk in the water, we walked on the beach the whole time.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. So you took them off because you didn't want to get sand in, not because you didn't want to get them wet.

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes. No, no, no, because I didn't want to get sand in them.

VAN SUSTEREN: And so it wasn't the least bit peculiar to you that you left the shoes behind and got in the car?

VAN DER SLOOT: Of course — well, of course, it was peculiar, but I mean, it wasn't like — I didn't really care about them at that point. I was — it was more (INAUDIBLE) the conversation moment, like, You know, let's go. Let's — you know, Let's go because he was, like, yes, you know, screw her Let's go home. And I knew if I would have gone back, she would have been, like, again, Let's go — let's go back. Let's stay here — blah, blah, blah.

And at that point, when I called him between that, there was actually a point where I'd picked her to — you know, in a joking way, Like, OK, then I'm going to take you back to your hotel, if you don't want to go back. And she said, No, put me down. And so I put her down again. And then I was just talking to her, and yes, I explained to her why I had to go home. And she was, Oh, you know, please stay with me. Please stay with me until the next day.

He must have had two identical pair of sneakers or bought a rplacement pair later.

[2NJSons_Mom]

My sister just gave me a T-Shirt that said "I used to have a handle on life, but it broke."   

 

They didn't break the mold in your household...

[San]

My sister just gave me a T-Shirt that said "I used to have a handle on life, but it broke."   

 

They didn't break the mold in your household...