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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #758 6/14 - 6/18/08  (Read 168993 times)
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #200 on: June 15, 2008, 05:41:53 AM »

These guys took pictures of this recent rape.  I will say they used their cell phones to take them.

Enter Charles Croes once again.

This happened to that young girl at school, too.  She was chased off the island.  I hope these girls and women get together and file a class action suit.  They can own the island and lock all the rats up. 

Or they can buy it on ebay next week for $1.98.

Hell hath no fury like a woman porned!
 

"I've been porned" doesn't have a nice sound to it.

I wonder if Aruba has an official protocol for dealing with assault cases?  I wonder if the business associations have educated their members about how to deal with crime that may have a negative reflection on their business or on tourism?

What do they see when they look into the mirror each morning?
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« Reply #201 on: June 15, 2008, 06:02:58 AM »

Hell hath no fury like a woman porned!
 

true enough!  honestly bearlythere....

having said that, if these pictures can be retrieved (and they should be able to do this even with the apparent rudimentary skill available on aruba) this should help prove or disprove the accuations.
let's hope that on top of a rape kit that the ALE were also getting  blood/urine tests for this young woman, as we know GHB etc dissipate very quickly in the bloodstream but they can be verified if done quickly enough

They will not retrieve these pictures.  This is when calls are made to Charles Croes to get him involved.  He will not come forward with these pictures.

Even if you get blood/urine tests they will be falsified by Aruba.  Aruba has their game down to a science (i.e. Blood turns into chocolate).  We will never get the right results and Aruba will make sure of it.
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #202 on: June 15, 2008, 06:21:04 AM »

Interesting, this is posted on Greta's Blog:

Comment by charlierat
June 14th, 2008 at 9:47 pm

Another American female tourist has reported that she was drugged and ganged raped in Aruba. Aruban officials see this as possibly another bad mark against potential American tourism, so they are blaming the victim and encouraging her to drop the charges. Let’s hope she doesn’t disappear!


I find it hard to believe that was actually Charlierat that wrote that 

I do too-that's why I said interesting. O.K. who on this board posted this?

Wasn't me 

"Another American female tourist has reported that she was drugged and ganged raped in Aruba."

Who is the other tourist that reported being drugged and ganged raped in Aruba?

Natalee isn't here to tell us what happened to her...so who (and how many) have reported this before?
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« Reply #203 on: June 15, 2008, 07:02:33 AM »

A plethora of news articles about Aruba today ~

Quote
Travel: Jeep thrills

June 2008
By NICK BOULOS

It's billed as the honeymoon capital of the Caribbean, but a growing band of visitors is eschewing the beaches and falling in love with Aruba's dramatic desert interior

Quote
One can also grow tired of all the loved-up couples walking hand in hand and whispering sweet nothings over their mango daiquiris. Aruba has reinvented itself as the love capital of the Caribbean, hence the island's Honeymoon Cove, chips with honeymoon sauce on the menu and the Tunnel of Love attraction at the island's Arikok National Park.

Quote
Oranjestad, the capital city, is where western consumerism meets Caribbean joie de vivre, as casinos and restaurants rub shoulders with fairytale-type gingerbread houses – Dutch/baroque architecture painted a vivid confection of pistachio, ochre, pink, and aqua. If you want to indulge in a little shopping, it's the place to go. Down by the wharf you'll find colourful stalls selling local art and pottery, and there's a flea market selling a blinding array of tourist trinkets.

Quote
Aruba is clearly a place where divine intervention is sought after. Travelling further, we reach the quaint Alto Vista Chapel, an intimate and isolated place of worship with its huge, pointed-arch windows. Outside, rows of unoccupied white stone benches are positioned in a ripple effect.

Strolling beyond the tall wooden doors and into the cool interior, I find a welcome refuge from the blistering heat. Ahead, against a blue painted wall that mirrors the sky outside, stands a simple Virgin Mary on the altar. A handful of locals, oblivious to the steady trickle of tourists, continue with their silent prayers, while outside endless columns of cacti dominate the view, their tips piercing the distant horizon.

Next stop on the tour are the Bushiribana Ruins, an abandoned gold smelter that dates back to Aruba's 19th-century gold rush, when three million pounds of the precious metal was produced. With their fragmented stone walls flooded with sunlight and empty window frames, they are a formidable and impressive sight.

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/spectrum/Travel-Jeep-thrills.4184802.jp

Sounds like a nice place to go. 
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« Reply #204 on: June 15, 2008, 07:14:18 AM »

already mentioned in previous thread:

Rudy Croes has found a new temporary PG:

Robert Pietersz

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/5056/18/

haven't read a full article about it. it is not in a dutch language paper yet.

all i now know about him is that he is the former head of the advisory board of the Governor of the Antilles.
and before that he was the PG of the Antilles.

don't know if he has been approved by the kingdom yet.
July 1st Nico Jörg leaves.
I read some where last night that he will be AG on aruba for 6 months and he starts work June 23rd IIRC.
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« Reply #205 on: June 15, 2008, 07:19:21 AM »

Interesting, this is posted on Greta's Blog:

Comment by charlierat
June 14th, 2008 at 9:47 pm

Another American female tourist has reported that she was drugged and ganged raped in Aruba. Aruban officials see this as possibly another bad mark against potential American tourism, so they are blaming the victim and encouraging her to drop the charges. Let’s hope she doesn’t disappear!


I find it hard to believe that was actually Charlierat that wrote that 

I do too-that's why I said interesting. O.K. who on this board posted this?

Wasn't me 

"Another American female tourist has reported that she was drugged and ganged raped in Aruba."

Who is the other tourist that reported being drugged and ganged raped in Aruba?

Natalee isn't here to tell us what happened to her...so who (and how many) have reported this before?
Good question WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #206 on: June 15, 2008, 07:32:11 AM »

I awoke this morning so concerned about Aruba's latest victim.  I keep wondering if there was anything else that we could have done to help her or support her.  It has been so disturbing to me that we weren't able to come up with anyone who could be trusted to help this woman during her emergency.  This is something that we need to emphasize in our Boycott Aruba dialogues.  When a woman is on that crappy island, she is on her own, and the planes don't arrive until Thursday.   
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« Reply #207 on: June 15, 2008, 09:44:22 AM »

Maybe some gave her ecstasy


Question: What are the effects of ecstasy?

Answer: Brain imaging research in humans indicates that Ecstasy causes injury to the brain, affecting neurons that use the chemical serotonin to communicate with other neurons. The serotonin system plays a direct role in regulating mood, aggression, sexual activity, sleep, and sensitivity to pain. Many of the risks users face with Ecstasy use are similar to those found with the use of cocaine and amphetamines
:

http://parentingteens.about.com/cs/ecstasy/f/ecstasy1.htm
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« Reply #208 on: June 15, 2008, 09:51:00 AM »

Someone
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San
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« Reply #209 on: June 15, 2008, 09:58:31 AM »

Maybe some gave her ecstasy


Question: What are the effects of ecstasy?

Answer: Brain imaging research in humans indicates that Ecstasy causes injury to the brain, affecting neurons that use the chemical serotonin to communicate with other neurons. The serotonin system plays a direct role in regulating mood, aggression, sexual activity, sleep, and sensitivity to pain. Many of the risks users face with Ecstasy use are similar to those found with the use of cocaine and amphetamines
:

http://parentingteens.about.com/cs/ecstasy/f/ecstasy1.htm

There is no way someone goes on vacation in hopes of getting drunk out of their mind and wanting to go with three guys.  She was drugged and end of story for me.  And yes I believe she was slipped something in her drink.

Edited to add:   YES SHE WAS SLIPPED ECSTASY
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Destiny
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« Reply #210 on: June 15, 2008, 10:03:56 AM »

Diario Sat...anyone...can you give the cliff notes version of what this is about...it looks ugly...from what little I can read...TIA...Des...


   
18 LUNA EXIGI, PA MUHER ACUSA DI VIOLA MUCHA MUHER DI 15 AÑA    PDF    Print    E-mail
Saturday, 14 June 2008

ORANJESTAD(AAN): Diabierna na corte a tuma lugar un caso den cual Joanne L.T a wordo acusa di a viola un mucha muher di 15 aña sexualmente.

Fiscal a indica cu loke J. ta wordo acusa di dje ta cu riba 3 di Januari 2008 e lo a fula e mucha muher na su pecho, mey mey su pia y cu e lo a sunchi e mucha muher na su boca. Ademas di esaki, e lo a pone su dede den vagina di e mucha muher, contra su boluntad.
Huez a lesa parti di e rapport di polis cu ta bisa cu na dado momento mama di e victima a bay warda di polis pa hasi denuncia.

Esaki despues cu ruman homber y otro miembronan di famia di e mucha muher a ripara cu e tabata yora constantemente, despues cu el a yega cas marduga despues cu el a bay sali cu J.

Na prome instancia e mucha muher no kier a bisa loke a pasa, pero despues el a bisa su famia cu J. na dado momento a pushe contra muraya, pasa man na su pechonan, dune sunchi na su boca, baha su Carson y pone su dede den su vagina. Na polis e victima a declara cu el a bay sali anochi cu J. y ora cu nan tabata bayendo bek cas, diripiente e muher a cuminza pasa man.

Na diferente momento el a bisa e muher pa e stop, pero el a sigui toch. Despues di un rato por fin el a stop y el a hiba e mucha muher cas. Ora e victima a yega cas, e tabata sinti dolor na su parti intimo y el a ripara cu tabata tin sanger tambe. Despues cu el a conta su mama, nan a confronta e muher, pero el a nenga cu el a hasi algo.

Nan a bay dokter y dokter a constata cu e victima tabata tin herida chikito na su parti intimo. Na polis J. a declara cu nada no a pasa, pero despues el a declara diferente.

Segun J. tabata e victima mes a acerke cu interes sexual.El a bisa cu el a sunchi a mucha muher y pasa man na su pecho, pero cu ningun momento el a hinca dede den vagina di e mucha muher.

Huez a puntre dicon el a gaña na prome instante y el a bisa cu quizas door cu e tabata nervioso y nunca antes el a yega di haya su mes den problema cu husticia. Huez a bise cu ta net e ora ey bo tin cu bisa berdad.

Huez a bisa tambe cu si J. no a forza e mucha muher di hasi actonan sexual, pakico e mucha muher tabata yora asina hopi anto.
Fiscal a bisa cu ta straño cu J. a admiti na dado momento cu nan tabata tin relacion sexual cu otro e anochi ey, pero despues na corte el a bisa cu nan a djis sunchi y braza otro.

Huez a indica tambe cu si e mucha muher tabata kier mes, e ta menor di edad. Fiscal a exigi un castigo di 18 luna incondicional.
Abogado Foy representando e acusado, a bisa huez cu su cliente mester wordo declara liber di tur acusacion , pasobra fiscal a comete un error di pone cu e acto sexual a sosode rond di dia 3 di Januari, siendo cu ta dia 5 di Januari el a sosode.

Ademas di esaki el a indica cu no a wordo comproba cu J. a pone dede den vagina di e mucha y cu segun dokter ainda e mucha muher ta señorita.

E abogado a bisa tambe cu ta hopi straño cu un otro caso di un mandatario cu a wordo acusa di mescos, no a bin dilanti, mientras cu e caso aki si ta wordo tuma na serio.

Fiscal a bisa e abogado cu no ta importa cu e fecha ta incorecto, pasobra di O.M apela e caso, e ora ey por cambia e fecha ainda.
E abogado a responde cu esey no ta manera pa un Ministerio Publico of Fiscal opera. Bo no por bisa huez pa e djis no worry cu e error, pasobra den apelacion bo lo por cambia tur cos. Huez na final a bisa cu dia 27 di Juni e lo duna su veredicto.
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« Reply #211 on: June 15, 2008, 10:22:03 AM »

Destiny - best I can tell it's a court case where the prosecution is asking for 18 months for what looks like to me the mother of a girl, under the age of 15, who was sexually violated (in her mothers presence or by her mother..I'm not sure which).  Looks like the judge will give his decision on June 27th.

Edited to change 18 years to 18 months 
« Last Edit: June 15, 2008, 10:24:28 AM by klaasend » Logged

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« Reply #212 on: June 15, 2008, 10:29:34 AM »

oranjestad(aan): diabierna at corte did take lugar one caso in cual joanne l.t owing to wordo acusa of owing to viola one child muher of 15 year sexualmente. fiscal owing to indica cu thing j. is wordo acusa of dje is cu on 3 of january 2008 the will owing to feel the child muher at his pecho, mey mey his leg y cu the will owing to kiss the child muher at his mouth. apart from this, the will owing to place his finger in vagina of the child muher, contra his boluntad. huez owing to read part of the rapport of police cu is tell cu at dado instant mother of the victima owing to bay keep of police for make denuncia. this after cu brother man y another miembronan of family of the child muher owing to ripara cu the was cry constantemente, after cu past owing to arrive cas marduga after cu past owing to bay leave cu j. at first instancia the child muher does not owing to tell thing owing to happen, but after past owing to tell his family cu j. at dado instant owing to pushe contra wall, happen hand at his pechonan, dune kiss at his mouth, descend his carson y place his finger in his vagina. at police the victima owing to declara cu past owing to bay leave night cu j. y hour cu they was bayendo bek cas, diripiente the muher owing to cuminza happen hand. at various instant past owing to tell the muher for her stop, but past owing to follow yet. after of one rato can end past owing to stop y past owing to take away the child muher cas. hour the victima owing to arrive cas, the was feel dolor at his part intimo y past owing to ripara cu was have blood also. after cu past owing to count ; his mother, they owing to confronta the muher, but past owing to deny cu past owing to make algo. they owing to bay doctor y doctor owing to constata cu the victima was have injury diminutive at his part intimo. at police j. owing to declara cu nothing not owing to happen, but after past owing to declara various. according j. was the victima self owing to acerke cu interest sexual.el owing to tell cu past owing to kiss owing to child muher y happen hand at his pecho, but cu none instant past owing to hinca finger in vagina of the child muher. huez owing to puntre dicon past owing to lie at first instant y past owing to tell cu quizas door cu the was agitated y never formerly past owing to arrive of achieve his self in problem cu husticia. huez owing to bise cu is just the hour ey do you have cu tell berdad. huez owing to tell also cu if j. not owing to forza the child muher of make actonan sexual, pakico the child muher was cry so much then. fiscal owing to tell cu is odd cu j. owing to admiti at dado instant cu they was have relacion sexual cu another the night ey, but after at corte past owing to tell cu they owing to immidiately kiss y braza another. huez owing to indica also cu if the child muher was wanted self, the is younger of edad. fiscal owing to exigi one castigo of 18 month incondicional. advocate foy representando the acusado, owing to tell huez cu his cliente have to wordo declara pound of all acusacion come across, because fiscal owing to comete one error of place cu the acto sexual owing to sosode rond of day 3 of january, siendo cu is day 5 of january past owing to sosode. apart from this past owing to indica cu not owing to wordo comproba cu j. owing to place finger in vagina of the child y cu according doctor still the child muher is miss. the advocate owing to tell also cu is much odd cu one another caso of one mandatario cu owing to wordo acusa of same, not owing to come fast, while cu the caso here if is wordo take at earnest. fiscal owing to tell the advocate cu do not importa cu the date is incorecto, because of or.m apela the caso, the hour ey can change the date still. the advocate owing to responde cu esey do not as for one ministerio publico or fiscal opera. do you not can tell huez for her immidiately not worry cu the error, because in apelacion do you will can change all cos. huez at end owing to tell cu day 27 of june the will give his veredicto.


http://www.donamaro.nl/papiamentu/index.php?pAction=tradusi
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« Reply #213 on: June 15, 2008, 10:32:52 AM »

What I find odd is that everyone now accepts that Natalee was drunk.  I think that became the default when drugs were added and the "accidental overdose" theory came into play.

What I know, because I saw it with my own eyes, is that Natalee had a water bottle in front of her, at the blackjack table. She was walking around the casino, unassisted.  She was dancing on the stage, at Carlos and Charlies, not lying on the stage or passed out. I don't believe she was drunk.

For all I know, the "red fire" she drank Sunday morning could have been from someone telling her it would help her headache, from Sat. night.

You don't go from what I saw, to seizures and dead, in that amount of time, without some drug added to the mix.  She was drugged.  The result may not have been intended but the act itself, was purposeful....and criminal.
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« Reply #214 on: June 15, 2008, 10:38:21 AM »

What I find odd is that everyone now accepts that Natalee was drunk.  I think that became the default when drugs were added and the "accidental overdose" theory came into play.

What I know, because I saw it with my own eyes, is that Natalee had a water bottle in front of her, at the blackjack table. She was walking around the casino, unassisted.  She was dancing on the stage, at Carlos and Charlies, not lying on the stage or passed out. I don't believe she was drunk.

For all I know, the "red fire" she drank Sunday morning could have been from someone telling her it would help her headache, from Sat. night.

You don't go from what I saw, to seizures and dead, in that amount of time, without some drug added to the mix.  She was drugged.  The result may not have been intended but the act itself, was purposeful....and criminal.

I agree Buckeye.  Premeditated.
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« Reply #215 on: June 15, 2008, 10:51:16 AM »

What I find odd is that everyone now accepts that Natalee was drunk.  I think that became the default when drugs were added and the "accidental overdose" theory came into play.

What I know, because I saw it with my own eyes, is that Natalee had a water bottle in front of her, at the blackjack table. She was walking around the casino, unassisted.  She was dancing on the stage, at Carlos and Charlies, not lying on the stage or passed out. I don't believe she was drunk.

For all I know, the "red fire" she drank Sunday morning could have been from someone telling her it would help her headache, from Sat. night.

You don't go from what I saw, to seizures and dead, in that amount of time, without some drug added to the mix.  She was drugged.  The result may not have been intended but the act itself, was purposeful....and criminal.



Thank you Buckeye, for that reminder.
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« Reply #216 on: June 15, 2008, 10:54:07 AM »

Hell hath no fury like a woman porned!
 

true enough!  honestly bearlythere....

having said that, if these pictures can be retrieved (and they should be able to do this even with the apparent rudimentary skill available on aruba) this should help prove or disprove the accuations.
let's hope that on top of a rape kit that the ALE were also getting  blood/urine tests for this young woman, as we know GHB etc dissipate very quickly in the bloodstream but they can be verified if done quickly enough

Knowing what we know......I would have almost advised this woman to take her own urine sample and bring it back to the US for testing. Don't imagine it is totally legal for prosecution purposes, but better than nothing, worth a shot.
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« Reply #217 on: June 15, 2008, 11:02:48 AM »

Destiny - best I can tell it's a court case where the prosecution is asking for 18 months for what looks like to me the mother of a girl, under the age of 15, who was sexually violated (in her mothers presence or by her mother..I'm not sure which).  Looks like the judge will give his decision on June 27th.

Edited to change 18 years to 18 months 

TY Klaas....ps....banana basket Wink
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« Reply #218 on: June 15, 2008, 11:03:48 AM »

AMIGOE

need to be a member to read further.


snip it.


Aruba
June 14, 2008, 11:45 (GMT -04:00)

Council of State: Imago Aruba negative
ORANJESTAD / THE HAGUE - During the visit of the parliamentary delegation to the Council of State in the Netherlands, has spoken about the image of our country in the Netherlands. That is according to the Council always negative. The relationship between the two countries is the last time 'bekoeld. "
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-JUSTICE FOR NATALEE ANN - BOYCOTT ARUBA
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"Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going to do." Thomas Jefferson
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."Thomas Jeff
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« Reply #219 on: June 15, 2008, 11:04:31 AM »

Hell hath no fury like a woman porned!
 

true enough!  honestly bearlythere....

having said that, if these pictures can be retrieved (and they should be able to do this even with the apparent rudimentary skill available on aruba) this should help prove or disprove the accuations.
let's hope that on top of a rape kit that the ALE were also getting  blood/urine tests for this young woman, as we know GHB etc dissipate very quickly in the bloodstream but they can be verified if done quickly enough

Knowing what we know......I would have almost advised this woman to take her own urine sample and bring it back to the US for testing. Don't imagine it is totally legal for prosecution purposes, but better than nothing, worth a shot.


BB - How are you doing with the thought prints?  Are you confused, yet?
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