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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #758 6/14 - 6/18/08  (Read 171020 times)
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #820 on: June 18, 2008, 02:21:40 PM »

I guess my question is this -

how can Joran be a suspect in the case after all this time if there is nothing that they can even charge him with.

Not disposal of a corpse, not premeditated murder, not rape... etc etc etc...

sure Joran is a suspect in everyone's mind, but this is semantics as far as I'm concerned and to make it appear as if these corrupt Dutch and Aruban officials are doing something.

If the Natalee Holloway investgation is never officially closed ... allowed to become a "cold case" ... Aruba is not obligated to open the case files to parties/agencies that have an agenda to expose the Aruban investigation for what it was "corrupt".

Janet

+++++++

February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judge’s decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues


The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the “Peter R de Vries-tapes” had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Court’s decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect’s involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution. The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eem’s car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eem’s car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder – as voiced by the prosecution – combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the “car-statements.”

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not.


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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
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« Reply #821 on: June 18, 2008, 02:28:07 PM »

I guess my question is this -

how can Joran be a suspect in the case after all this time if there is nothing that they can even charge him with.

Not disposal of a corpse, not premeditated murder, not rape... etc etc etc...

sure Joran is a suspect in everyone's mind, but this is semantics as far as I'm concerned and to make it appear as if these corrupt Dutch and Aruban officials are doing something.

I don't think the Dutch & Aruban officials are that corrupt.....I do believe they are doing the best they can. Of course not all of them...dishonest people are everywhere. But this is jmo and I know you don't feel the same.

In any case.....as you sow, so shall you reap....Joran will get what he deserves. But maybe there will be justice done in court....sometimes it takes a long time; I remain hopeful it will happen one day.

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« Reply #822 on: June 18, 2008, 02:38:59 PM »

Welcome back GBMW Smile

Do you travel or do anything exciting on your Holiday?
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« Reply #823 on: June 18, 2008, 02:49:28 PM »



Well at least someone did try and cover this 3rd body up.So it seems aruba is going with the story that these 3 bodies are those swim away Columbian drug guys....what will they do if tomorrow another body shows up?What if a body a day shows up for a few weeks.....at this point I wouldn't mind seeing joran and paulus's bloated bodies on a aruba beach:::::feeling kinda evil today:::::

I will never get over the fact they put such graphic pics in their newspaper. If I were a tourist on the island and saw that...I would be on the 1st flight home!!!
Those images are pretty shocking and it's just sickening that they splash them on the front pages of thier news papers online and offline.

The pics don't bother me in the least. My opinion is death can be ugly-no doubt about it. Death, disease, injury, accidents....... have a lesson to teach.

Infact may I step up to my podium......ehhh hum....take for example kids. Take kids in gangs. They fight, they shoot guns, they kill....but not always. Often the outcome of these fights are ugly, not just the simple fact that --as on TV--you fall down on the sidewalk and die. Nope, often you don't die. I think people in general, kids specifically should see those that don't die. They should see the paralyzed teens, those with colostomies, those who remain brain injured for the rest of their lives. Their families, the government , society and ME(as a health care professional)  will care for them the rest of their lives. Often reality is ugly...... So with regard to these photos on the beach, or others that are published. Provided the pics don't blatantly name the subject, IMO they hit a nerve in people far deeper than words could ever do. Geesh I sure hope I wouldn't be an advocate for public execution in the old days? But then you never know....just haven't thought about it much.

Careful stepping down from the podium............bowing, thankyou.
LOL BB!
But on a more serious note,I think they should not be published till at least they are ID'd and thier families notified.
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johan555
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« Reply #824 on: June 18, 2008, 02:50:42 PM »

about rape drugs
ROHYPNOL
The Most ordinary means that you can use and rape is ROHYPNOL. rohypnol is a sleep, for people who have difficulty sleeping, and is distributed in pill form. In the netherlands and North America is t meanwhile banned, but in Belgium and in the rest of europe it is still full under prescription. T common to rohypnol is that it not only confusion, (horny)geilheid and unconscious, no, it also ensures that the day after nothing more can remember what happened.
It causes amnesia. Das course, what he want rapists. Because then they can t you throw in a drink, and you take away and use your back on the streets, and you do not know better than you are at home all day.
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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
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« Reply #825 on: June 18, 2008, 02:53:08 PM »

so far today - no corpses. That's a good thing.

looks like there was a rash of store / bar robberies. And a chollar appears to have stolen a cell phone. I think someone also stole an American passport.

one guy arrested in what looks like a robbery - had a bunch of worthless florins and about ten crack rocks.

and the usual traffic accidents.
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Truth, Justice and the American Way.

+++

~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
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« Reply #826 on: June 18, 2008, 02:57:42 PM »

about rapedrugs -2
KETAMINE.
That is a substance that occurs only in powder form, and just as ghb confusion, and can cause unconsciousness. Ketmine is like ghb a narcosemiddel, which is used mainly on animals. (Which is what those lion in madagascar get that arrow, which is KETAMINE) Here in europe t you see not too often, but as the CCP gaydrug of europe is that of Ketamine america. the word also called SPECIAL K. it works as stronger than ghb and t seems a little less gevaarlijkte with dosage, but not pin me dr. Ketamine is primarily gesnoven and you can dr very good at sex, but you are also quite trippen dr. with those doodervaringen almost there. Elmow has once included Ketamine (who is also a boy all), t was quite an experience I must tell you.
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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
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« Reply #827 on: June 18, 2008, 02:58:24 PM »

Welcome back GBMW Smile

Do you travel or do anything exciting on your Holiday?

Thanks *******!

We had an amazing trip. Started in LA, drove the Highway1 to San Fransisco. San Juan Island (whale watching!), The Rocky Mountains / Yellowstone where we saw some amazing wildlife and last but not least: New York....and now home again.....and back to work Very Happy. My head is filled with the incredible impressions so I'm still a bit restless.

Holland is doing a good job in the European Championship (soccer) so the country is orange all over! I'm not a big soccerfan but during these tournaments I like the atmosphere it brings. America is no soccercountry so I'm glad to be home to be able to watch the matches...the quarter finales that will be this Saturday (for the Netherlands) will be very exciting.

Have you settled in your new place already?

*******, I know you've been on FOK as well...do you remember or can you find the posts of Duikkie concerning the driving route of Deepak? I know Duikkie had some good posts about that but can't find them anymore....

Or Johan...maybe you can find them? I'll keep looking anyway...
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« Reply #828 on: June 18, 2008, 03:00:28 PM »

about rape drugs
ROHYPNOL
The Most ordinary means that you can use and rape is ROHYPNOL. rohypnol is a sleep, for people who have difficulty sleeping, and is distributed in pill form. In the netherlands and North America is t meanwhile banned, but in Belgium and in the rest of europe it is still full under prescription. T common to rohypnol is that it not only confusion, (horny)geilheid and unconscious, no, it also ensures that the day after nothing more can remember what happened.
It causes amnesia. Das course, what he want rapists. Because then they can t you throw in a drink, and you take away and use your back on the streets, and you do not know better than you are at home all day.



All true.....a very dangerous drug:

    
Rape Drugs

Rohypnol

Effects of Rohypnol
Rohypnol is a potent sedative.  The physical effects of the drug may be noticeable within twenty to thirty minutes after ingestion.  The effects may last for many hours.

Rohypnol may cause drowsiness, confusion, impaired motor skills, dizziness, disorientation, disinhibition, impaired judgment, and reduced levels of consciousness.  You may look and act like someone who is drunk.  Your speech may be slurred, and you may have difficulty standing or walking.  Or, you may be rendered completely unconscious.

 

It is very dangerous to mix Rohypnol with alcohol or other drugs.  The combination can produce extremely low blood pressure, respiratory depression, difficulty breathing, coma, or even death.

 

One of the most disturbing effects of Rohypnol is that it can cause complete or partial “anterograde” amnesia (absence of memory for the events that occur after it is ingested).  This means that you may not be able to remember what was done to you while you were under the influence of the drug, which may have been for a significant period of time. This “amnestic” effect is especially likely when Rohypnol is ingested with alcohol.
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johan555
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« Reply #829 on: June 18, 2008, 03:01:00 PM »

about rapedrugs-3
GHB, also known as liquid Ecstasy.

GHB is very much in the gay and gabberScene used, because you pretty little need to be hyper tasty, t effect is a little middle of alcohol and xtc. You will be easy, and rather gedesorienteert and you go through things where you do not normally supports. The word uitgaanscene t used to go out of your ball to go, and homos t to use sex to have. One of the reasons why they do that is because many people simply behoeffte to have sex, but that may not get what they want and so they swallow t, zdat than they could have sex with someone where they are not traps, and yet a great time. Strange but true. Ghb is a anaesthetics, which is used for small operations and t stunning of animals. T is also widely used by bodybuilder, because the muscle t promoted. In America was t to end 90 years of the freely available in supermarkets. but now falls under the t drugs.
One of the drawbacks of GHB is that the dose rather sensitive, is therefore recommended no more than 6 ml (mililiter, das around a small tablespoon) to take, you take too much, for example, a good drink, then you out ga ! and then you lying unconscious on the ground, in combination with alcohol that happens rather fast. Because ghb half hour needs to work so people want rather es hike up a bit, with the result that they totally lost their way and get worse on the ground flop. I have repeatedly seen gbeuren, including myself am gone out of dr. Take you have a drink with dr, you can even death. T is spierverslappend and if there is really too much in your body is then goes to your heart muscle and then you're not there anymore. I have a friend (he is also on this site) Those ever glad n. Tshirt attracted up to a red dot in n. hatstreek to show. There was an adrenaline syringe into gone, sir was namemelijk with a cardiac arrest in hospital t delivered. yes, das t he lives. But t m is now good.

That word natuulijk not only voluntarily. There are enough bad guests in the city around that by stopping people in their drink. In itself you do not immediately panic of touching, because the dose in a beer that you will not taste is not enough for someone to rape. there must be a piece or 5 beers thrown against. moreover, are you at that moment in the city he so yes, then you ga out, ie how do you bring home, but t is still blown careful from whom you have something to take so. you never know where you end up.
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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
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« Reply #830 on: June 18, 2008, 03:01:08 PM »





Well at least someone did try and cover this 3rd body up.So it seems aruba is going with the story that these 3 bodies are those swim away Columbian drug guys....what will they do if tomorrow another body shows up?What if a body a day shows up for a few weeks.....at this point I wouldn't mind seeing joran and paulus's bloated bodies on a aruba beach:::::feeling kinda evil today:::::

And your nic has something to do with karma? What will it do to your karma wishing such things on other people?
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« Reply #831 on: June 18, 2008, 03:02:56 PM »

I would not be surprised if Aruba concedes an "incompetent" investigation (no "corrupt") ... an "incompetent" investigation that dictates there is no turning back the clock and ... attempt to settle with the family in an attempt to silence them and ... allow Aruba to one again become that "Happy Island".

The ongoing resolve of Beth Holloway to be a voice for her daughter in regards to justice prevailing will once again be underestimated by the "powers that be" in Aruba ... the "powers that be" who still do not get it ... still do not comprehend the depth of this mother's love and determination.

Janet

+++++++++

A VOICE THAT WILL NOT BE SILENCED

Beth Twitty
'Scarborough Country'
October 24, 2005


HOLLOWAY-TWITTY:  I met with Prime Minister Oduber. I don‘t care who you put the pressure on, where it comes from, but I want—you need to figure it out. You need to figure out who needs to apply the pressure and where it needs to be applied, because you have to solve this crime. I said, you do not want to turn me loose from this island without an answer.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9813596/


Beth Twitty
'Scarborough Country'
October 24, 2005


“I have told Prime Minister Oduber that I will do this, I will be the voice of Natalee for the next 40 years. And I hope I have that long, because I will do it as long as I can.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9813596/


Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
August 23, 2005


TWITTY: I met him in his office. And you know, the main things that we went over in the meeting, Greta — you know, I wanted to make it perfectly clear that — you know, Aruba is a small island. We agreed upon that. And this island, you know, it's well connected. Everyone knows everyone. And I wanted to make sure he knew there's no way that I will accept not having answers as to where Natalee is. And if I have to spend the next 40 years being the voice for her out of Aruba

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166524,00.html


Beth Twitty'
Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
September 14, 2005


“We will keep going back to Aruba over and over again. This is far from over. They know—they have the answers there on the island.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9354188/


Beth Twitty
Scarborough Country


TWITTY:  I think it’s just the side that, you know, I—I will stop at nothing to get answers. There is nothing that I won’t do. There’s nowhere that I won’t go, and there’s nothing—I’m going to ask every question. I don’t care how painful it is. I will do it, because I’m not going to have any regrets.”

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/8885950/


Beth Twitty
Associated Press
September 6, 2005


For the rest of my life, I will continue to be the voice for my daughter, seeking justice in Aruba. Every parent would want the same justice for their child.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/04/aruba.missing.teen/index.html
Beth is about the strongest person I know and the most courageous.I believe she really WILL pressure aruba for as long as it takes.

Karma ... I agree.

However ... the journey is overwhelming at times when you consider the obstacles in the road.  Beth has a relationship with God and ... that relationship gives her peace of mind as well as strength to endure but ... the prayers of others to uphold her in her journey for justice ... in her journey to educate other "Natalees" regarding the principles of "safe travel" ... must never be be underestimated.

Janet

You are correct Janet.We all help to make her strong,God helps to make her strong.She's a very admirable woman.
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Rest In Peace Sweet Angels

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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #832 on: June 18, 2008, 03:05:13 PM »

I guess my question is this -

how can Joran be a suspect in the case after all this time if there is nothing that they can even charge him with.

Not disposal of a corpse, not premeditated murder, not rape... etc etc etc...

sure Joran is a suspect in everyone's mind, but this is semantics as far as I'm concerned and to make it appear as if these corrupt Dutch and Aruban officials are doing something.

I don't think the Dutch & Aruban officials are that corrupt.....I do believe they are doing the best they can. Of course not all of them...dishonest people are everywhere. But this is jmo and I know you don't feel the same.

In any case.....as you sow, so shall you reap....Joran will get what he deserves. But maybe there will be justice done in court....sometimes it takes a long time; I remain hopeful it will happen one day.



... and the Kalpoes had no involvement in the events that encompassed the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.

 

GBMW ... I am certain that you and I will always have to respectfully agree to disagree on many aspects of the Natalee Holloway case.

Wecome back!  I hope you had a good holiday.

In a couple of weeks ... I will be accompanying my Dutch American DIL and her Mother to the Netherlands.  I am looking so forward to the trip but ... somewhat aprehensive.  I HATE flying.  Hubby and youngest son will do the bonding thing while we are gone ... fishing in our local waters. 

Janet
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #833 on: June 18, 2008, 03:13:47 PM »




Well at least someone did try and cover this 3rd body up.So it seems aruba is going with the story that these 3 bodies are those swim away Columbian drug guys....what will they do if tomorrow another body shows up?What if a body a day shows up for a few weeks.....at this point I wouldn't mind seeing joran and paulus's bloated bodies on a aruba beach:::::feeling kinda evil today:::::

And your nic has something to do with karma? What will it do to your karma wishing such things on other people?
Hey,hi there GBMW
I didn't wish that on joran and paulus.....I said I wouldn't mind seeing them that way.......I didn't say I would be the one to DO that to them.That's just the way karma works.
O:)
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johan555
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« Reply #834 on: June 18, 2008, 03:29:50 PM »

Welcome back GBMW Smile

Do you travel or do anything exciting on your Holiday?

Thanks *******!

We had an amazing trip. Started in LA, drove the Highway1 to San Fransisco. San Juan Island (whale watching!), The Rocky Mountains / Yellowstone where we saw some amazing wildlife and last but not least: New York....and now home again.....and back to work Very Happy. My head is filled with the incredible impressions so I'm still a bit restless.

Holland is doing a good job in the European Championship (soccer) so the country is orange all over! I'm not a big soccerfan but during these tournaments I like the atmosphere it brings. America is no soccercountry so I'm glad to be home to be able to watch the matches...the quarter finales that will be this Saturday (for the Netherlands) will be very exciting.

Have you settled in your new place already?

*******, I know you've been on FOK as well...do you remember or can you find the posts of Duikkie concerning the driving route of Deepak? I know Duikkie had some good posts about that but can't find them anymore....

Or Johan...maybe you can find them? I'll keep looking anyway...

wb GBMW

yes yes i can find them 
Duikkie is a real  detective !!He or She  ::MonkeyConfused::had some good posts
i am there every day on fok, thread 18 now
Duikkie was taking about this area and i am busy on Google earth to make some good shots . this area is C&C and the busstation !



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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
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« Reply #835 on: June 18, 2008, 03:32:26 PM »




Well at least someone did try and cover this 3rd body up.So it seems aruba is going with the story that these 3 bodies are those swim away Columbian drug guys....what will they do if tomorrow another body shows up?What if a body a day shows up for a few weeks.....at this point I wouldn't mind seeing joran and paulus's bloated bodies on a aruba beach:::::feeling kinda evil today:::::

And your nic has something to do with karma? What will it do to your karma wishing such things on other people?
Hey,hi there GBMW
I didn't wish that on joran and paulus.....I said I wouldn't mind seeing them that way.......I didn't say I would be the one to DO that to them.That's just the way karma works.
O:)


You don't want to kill them but you wouldn't mind to see their bloating bodies? Doesn't this mean you somewhat wish them dead?

Either way....I can think of much prettier things that I would like to see on the beach Very Happy

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« Reply #836 on: June 18, 2008, 03:33:33 PM »

******* did also a good job on Fok 
The case is still alive in the Netherlands
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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
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« Reply #837 on: June 18, 2008, 03:33:37 PM »

KarmaRoundUp wrote;

Quote
LOL BB!
But on a more serious note,I think they should not be published till at least they are ID'd and thier families notified.

That is very true. But think of this...maybe showing the tattoo helps ID them? But you are certianly correct.
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« Reply #838 on: June 18, 2008, 03:43:07 PM »

I guess my question is this -

how can Joran be a suspect in the case after all this time if there is nothing that they can even charge him with.

Not disposal of a corpse, not premeditated murder, not rape... etc etc etc...

sure Joran is a suspect in everyone's mind, but this is semantics as far as I'm concerned and to make it appear as if these corrupt Dutch and Aruban officials are doing something.

I don't think the Dutch & Aruban officials are that corrupt.....I do believe they are doing the best they can. Of course not all of them...dishonest people are everywhere. But this is jmo and I know you don't feel the same.

In any case.....as you sow, so shall you reap....Joran will get what he deserves. But maybe there will be justice done in court....sometimes it takes a long time; I remain hopeful it will happen one day.



... and the Kalpoes had no involvement in the events that encompassed the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.

 

GBMW ... I am certain that you and I will always have to respectfully agree to disagree on many aspects of the Natalee Holloway case.

Wecome back!  I hope you had a good holiday.

In a couple of weeks ... I will be accompanying my Dutch American DIL and her Mother to the Netherlands.  I am looking so forward to the trip but ... somewhat aprehensive.  I HATE flying.  Hubby and youngest son will do the bonding thing while we are gone ... fishing in our local waters. 

Janet

Hi Janet!

Flying isn't my hobby either....but I'm getting better at it every time....I'm sure you'll be ok.
Do you have some time to be a tourist? Maybe I can help with touristy tips!

And the Kalpoe printed pile is going to be read....and who knows how I look at things when I'm done with the reading Very Happy
A lot I've already read but some of it is new I saw when I looked quickly yesterday.
But it's good to know we can respectfully agree to disagree!
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« Reply #839 on: June 18, 2008, 03:43:11 PM »

this is a test how you can see if there is a rape drug in your glass

http://www.biosource-diagnostics.com/catalog/detail.asp?ID=418
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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

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