John Roberts's Supremes

[LouiseVargas]

What do you think of Chief Justice John Roberts's Supreme Court decision that Guantanamo prisoners should each be afforded a fair American trial?

[LouiseVargas]

BUMP.

Have you no opinions?

[Dihannah1]

I struggle with a solution.  I see it two ways.  As an American, I believe everybody should be afforded a fair trial.  But then we are talking about terrorists who are against our democracy, hence our justice system, not to mention, there goal in life is to destroy us, at all costs.  I am also concerned, that they want to die as martyers, giving them  "credibility" to other terrrorists, which is the last thing we want. This is truly tricky and trying to eliminate my own emotions, I want them to be punished to the harshest extent.  Not to die as martyers, but to really pay for there crimes.

[Tylergal]

John Roberts wrote the dissenting opinion.  Kennedy wrote the majority opinion.  Just a little time for settings facts straight. 

[caesu]

of course they deserve a fair trial.
or is the usa a stalinist regime who sends people without charge to gulags?

this illegal prison camp is a disgrace.
and at the same time a recruiting tool for more terrorists.

innocent until proven guilty.

[Auntiem]

   1.  They are not American citizens...therefore are not protected by the United States Constitution,......they are terrorists under no Civil Rights protection.

   2. Gitmo a disgrace....I agree..they are better fed and have better and safer living conditions than our Soldiers on the Ground.

   3. What did the Founding Fathers of this country do to traitors and terrorists???????

         THEY SHOT THEM!!!!

   4. Do our Soldiers who are captured by Islam get any where near these accommodations....No...They are subjected to horrendous torture, video taped so all the good followers of Islam and their children can see and rejoice over, before they die and their mutilated bodies left on road sides, to further terrorize Americans and illustrate clearly, to anyone with a brain, what evil and dangerous people these worshippers of Allah are all about.

[Auntiem]

     Louise, have you ever been to Israel??  You might get a better perspective on the dangers of Hamas, Hesbullah and other Islamic radicals.

     Ahmadinijhad wants to wipe that beautiful country off the face of the Earth.  Do you realize it was a patch of uncultivated desert, so "generously" given to Holocaust survivors, some only clinging to life, cause nobody else wanted it!! 

     And the world stood by and watched, wouldn't open their doors to these devastated people....people who had watched their husbands, wives, mothers, fathers children, entire families murdered by Nazi Soldiers, "following orders".

     And do you know why these grief stricken, dying souls clung to life with sheer determination??  To let the World know the truth.....the Holocaust happened,...  Our American Soldiers knew the truth, they saw with their hearts and eyes the evil that "Charismatic" orators are capable of. 

    People of my parents' generation did not believe, or didn't want to believe such atrocities could be inflicted on Human beings by other "so called" human beings.......
and you block your ears to the anti-Semitic words of Jerimiah Wright and stand behind  and applaud a man who listened with rapture.....heard his calling from God in that thing that they refer to as a church............ If God had spoken to Obama that day, he would have said.....YO, HOMEY, GET YA BLACK ASS OUTTA HERE AND FIND CHRISTIANITY..IN A REAL CHURCH BRO OR YOU AIN'T NEVER GONNA SEE THE PROMISED LAND!!!!

[LouiseVargas]

Louise, have you ever been to Israel??  You might get a better perspective on the dangers of Hamas, Hesbullah and other Islamic radicals.

Auntiem,

No I have not been to Israel, but my daughter lived and studied religion in Jerusalem for three years. She reported back to me daily via an audio cassette tape sent by snail mail. She took the bus and traveled often to the beach in Haifa. She also rode the bus to work. If there was a suicide bus bombing, she called collect to tell me she was not on that bus. She walked through the Arab marketplaces and the Arabs taunted her ... "Look at this Jewish bitch with blue eyes and blonde hair. She doesn't look like a Jewess." She was scared (this was before foreign kidnappers) that any one of them could have "disappeared" her in one moment, never to be heard from again. From that day onward she only went there with friends.

So Auntie, we know all about Hamas, Hezbollah, local and other Islamic radicals.  I am a 63 year old Jewish woman who became interested in Israel when I was 20. That's 43 years ago.

I have no desire to visit Israel. If I had enough money to do that, I would go to a Greek Isle, Bora Bora where I can lay out in the sun.

[LouiseVargas]

John Roberts wrote the dissenting opinion.  Kennedy wrote the majority opinion.  Just a little time for settings facts straight. 

Tyler,

It is amazing that all the fuss about Bush appointing the conservative John Roberts ... and he writes the dissenting position.

[LouiseVargas]

I struggle with a solution.  I see it two ways.  As an American, I believe everybody should be afforded a fair trial.  But then we are talking about terrorists who are against our democracy, hence our justice system, not to mention, there goal in life is to destroy us, at all costs.  I am also concerned, that they want to die as martyers, giving them  "credibility" to other terrrorists, which is the last thing we want. This is truly tricky and trying to eliminate my own emotions, I want them to be punished to the harshest extent.  Not to die as martyers, but to really pay for there crimes.

Di,

I also struggle with a solution. What I think has happened is that the US has been trying hard to get rid of the Guantanamo albatross around its neck.

I specifically heard on FOX that this situation is about to be resolved. The inmates will each be tried and if they say, "I didn't do it. I'm not guilty" the US will turn them loose.

[Auntiem]

Louise, have you ever been to Israel??  You might get a better perspective on the dangers of Hamas, Hesbullah and other Islamic radicals.

Auntiem,

No I have not been to Israel, but my daughter lived and studied religion in Jerusalem for three years. She reported back to me daily via an audio cassette tape sent by snail mail. She took the bus and traveled often to the beach in Haifa. She also rode the bus to work. If there was a suicide bus bombing, she called collect to tell me she was not on that bus. She walked through the Arab marketplaces and the Arabs taunted her ... "Look at this Jewish bitch with blue eyes and blonde hair. She doesn't look like a Jewess." She was scared (this was before foreign kidnappers) that any one of them could have "disappeared" her in one moment, never to be heard from again. From that day onward she only went there with friends.

So Auntie, we know all about Hamas, Hezbollah, local and other Islamic radicals.  I am a 63 year old Jewish woman who became interested in Israel when I was 20. That's 43 years ago.

I have no desire to visit Israel. If I had enough money to do that, I would go to a Greek Isle, Bora Bora where I can lay out in the sun.

     Well, Louise, I am a 64 year old Catholic, who became interested in the Holocaust at the age of 12, when the original  edition of The Diary of Anne Frank was published, or shortly after.  I was a sensitive adolescent and being so close to the age Anne was when she was captured by the Nazis, I not only was filled with empathy for her, but I identified with her.  After that, and to this day I have read and viewed anything possible that I could get my hands on about the subject.  I learned about almost all the Concentration camps, who was taken to them and what they suffered in them.

    I visited the remains and museum at Dachau, Aushwitz and the museum at "Check Point Charlie".  I remember to this day the name of a young boy, not even Jewish, who, in his attemt to run for freedom from East Berlin, was shot, but not killed between the fences that originally separated the  two parts of Berlin, erected by the Russians....it was later replaced by "The Wall", which was constructed as a maze, so that those in East Berlin could not make a "break for it" by car, or foot.  Back to the young man shot attempting to run to Freedom in the West.  His name was Peter Fechter, and he lay there dying, bleeding to  death for THREE DAYS....there was no safe way for the Americans in the West to save him, without themselves being killed......the Russians and Germans on the Eastern side did NOTHING.  the horror, cruelity and saddness of this event stayed with me my entire life.

      I watched "The Story of the Holocaust, The Family Weist", and had to leave the room when I heard the babies, being taken to the gas chambers, crying.  I was a young mother at the time and could not bear to watch, more over listen, to their pathetic cries. their mothers, carrying them, did not have such an escape!

      When my girls were old enough, I had them also watch these movies, that were being tauted by many, as PROPAGANDA. But, these fims and documentaries were THE TRUTH, not PROPAGANDA!!

      At the age of 12, I took my youngest to see Schindler's List.  One of the few times I saw a German Catholic, helping and trying to save as many Jews that he could, dying with the words on his lips,," I should have done more".  That, too, was so powerful and real that I heard myself screaming and hiding my eyes at the events being documented there....they were again so sad and cruel....... utterly evil and pointless.  My two older girls, viewed the film in New York, accompanied by my half Jewish son-in-law.  He sat there and cried the entire time, while my two older girls, Amy and Mary Jane, had to run outside several times, one having to smoke cigarettes and compose herself before reentering the Theater.

         Over the course of my long lifetime, I met several survivors, some with tatooed numbers on their arms, some, who as young children had been successfully hidden by Nuns in France, but the fear and horror that surrounded them still haunts them!

       I've seen authentic OVENS, still memoralized in Dachau.......and over the museum the words "NEVER AGAIN", "NE JAMAIS" and one in either German or Hebrew that I cnnot recall.
This is the message that, I believe it was Saroyan, left for the World to see, but above all remember.  History repeats itself when memories fade.

        It has been fortunate for us, living in the Free World, the United States, to have  had savvy, wise, realistic and empathetic Presidents who recognize the State of Israel and what it stands for. And it frightens me to think that the possibly future President of our Country, could be a man devoid of these feelings.  That as Commander-in Chief, he could agree and allow those who wish, to once again bring on a Holocaust...allowing Israel to be destroyed.....left without our protection.....because he "worshipped" in a church (and I use that last word loosely) that preached not only anti-American tirades, but anti-Semitic ,  anti-White, anti anything not Black.  A Preacher, who undoubtedly expeienced descrimination in the Marines, in the South and can't let it go!!  A man who is so filled with hate that he feels the need to preach it continuously to his "congregation".

       What kind of African-American wants to hear and believe that there is a Black Theology....that, in itself is such a destructive contradiction.

      There is one God...he made us all!!!  Made us in his image and likeness to love, respect and be kind to each other. He might be Black, that makes NO difference to me, or anyone who truly believes in a Higher Power......He wants all to join us in the hereafter, if one exists.
He has no preference for Jews, Muslims, Hindi, Catholic etc.

       John McCain is not the best (or maybe he is, I had severe doubts about Ronald Reagan and he accomplished many good things, including but not limited to, shaming Mr. Gorbachev by telling him to "...take down that wall...")

     We are livinging a very tenuous, unsafe time and to me at least he, McCain, is "safe".  What is Obama, I do not know, none  of us know ......We know McCain loves this country, respects and will continue to aid and protect Israel.....his party has proven it!!
   We know nothing about Barak Obama....do we take such a chance on someone like this???  How deep does his feeling for his African, Muslim roots go.....how well are they hidden???? Does he really represent the Democratic party??

       And the last thing I want to say concerning this man......how does he REALLY  feel about Jews and Israel????
           Someone here made the statement that Obama  "...loves Jews" .  How do we know that?  Twenty years he attended and embraced the ideology of a church, that I believe is the furthest thing from Christianity I have ever heard.   There is no such thing as Black Theology of White Theology.
Theology is the study of religion, of God......who is colorless!!!

[caesu]

this is going very off-topic now.

it was about the supreme court ruling to allow terror suspects to have a fair trial.
i thought that's is what the USA usually is fighting for. democracy and freedom.
not to deny suspects a trial and keep them locked up without charge.
if they are terrorists, and a great deal of them are of course - why deny them appeals in civilian courts?
don't they have proof that they are guilty? release them then. a few of them were - totally innocent.
or does being at the wrong time at the wrong place in afghanistan makes someone guilty?
i don't think that's what the USA should be and ever was about.

and about israel:
i don't know why Auntiem brought this up.
but i would like to say that history shows that the republican party maybe tries to appear more pro-israel.
but most wars on israel or intifada's occurred during republican administrations.
only democratic presidents have taken efforts toward peace process.
i have to remind you that then vice-president Bush Sr. was outraged by israel bombing the osirak nuclear reactor in irak.
he even wanted to attack israel for that.
the reagan-administration denounced israel for bombing osirak.
imagine if israel wouldn't have done that.

look where we are now. bush supported the 'free' election which brought hamas to power in gaza and eventually led to the creation of hamastan in gaza.
bush supported the 'free' election in lebanon which hezbollah to power and bush didn't do a thing when a few weeks ago hezbollah to legitimized. israel is very much worse off due to bush' policies. i could go on and on about that.

as we are talking about love for israel. i've great love for israel.
worked and lived there for a period of time in a kibbutz and later in tourism.
i opposed the withdrawal from lebanon by barak in 2000.
hezbollah claimed victory: the katyushas worked!!
it is my opinion that this caused the failure of the peace talks and the subsequent intifada.
hamas/fatah-arafat: thought: what hezbollah can, can we do too!
i also opposed the withdrawal from gaza. they should have left at least military bases there.
but bush messed up in iraq - so bush tought: "lets make some arabs happy" - so the bush administration pressured sharon into evacuating gaza. big mistake.
hamas could claim victory and win the elections.
obama wants a two state solution. so does bush. and that will eventually be the solution.
but now there are two states: gaza and west-bank.
eventually hamas needs to be defeated, so the palestinian arabs can unite and make a peace deal.
today a truce between hamas and israel went into force.
but of course hamas is going to use this to move more rockets and anti-tank-weapons in.
so eventually there is going to be big operation there by the IDF.

[crazybabyborg]

A fair trial with all the accompanying rights that we afford a criminally charged person within our judicial system, is designed for our response after a crime has been committed. A most critical part of the terrorism threat to this country is PREVENTING another incident. During the trials of the perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, information used in the 911 attack was obtained by interested terror organizations. Under our laws there is discovery, etc, that is part of any criminal or civil trial.

If we intend to fight an effective war on terrorism, we need a full offensive response, not the defensive structure of our Criminal Justice system. That full response has been in place since 911 and has prevented another attack so far. The US will come to remember this Supreme Court decision IMO, and I fear it will be with regret.

[Tylergal]

Bush should have done the same thing Abraham Lincoln, FDR, JFK and LBJ did, sell the war and then like FDR and Lincoln, suspend habeas corpus.  Thousands of Americans (Southerners died in prison).  How many Germans and Japanese Americans were sent to concentration camps who lived and worked in this country?  Was that fair?  No.  But what SCOTUS has done is reinvent the wheel, by rewriting the Constitution.  It is not a liquid document that can be rewritten every time a group of anti-Americans choose to.

Incidentally, Louise, why would Roberts not write the descenting opinion?  You do not seem to understand the court system?  I think a good civics lesson and a trip to Israel are in order for you who claim to be JAP.

[caesu]

mccain called this one of the worst scotus rulings, others call it the worst ruling.
they've got clearly total disregard for history.
they forgot rulings upholding slavery, segregation, mixed race marriages, and more.

[caesu]

i mean there banning mixed race marriages of course.
Pace versus Alabama

[Auntiem]

caesu wrote:           but bush messed up in iraq - so bush tought: "lets make some arabs happy" - so the bush administration pressured sharon into evacuating gaza. big mistake

   Good illustration as to how foolish it is to entertain thoughts of "talking" to terrorists. They want one thing....the destruction of Israel and the US and will stop at nothing until they do. 

   That's why WE have to stop at nothing in order to prevent their success!!!

[Tylergal]

mccain called this one of the worst scotus rulings, others call it the worst ruling.
they've got clearly total disregard for history.
they forgot rulings upholding slavery, segregation, mixed race marriages, and more.

You are a total frigging idiot.  This has nothing to do with damn segregation and slavery, you clueless, mentally deficient wacko.

[caesu]

mccain called this one of the worst scotus rulings, others call it the worst ruling.
they've got clearly total disregard for history.
they forgot rulings upholding slavery, segregation, mixed race marriages, and more.

You are a total frigging idiot.  This has nothing to do with damn segregation and slavery, you clueless, mentally deficient wacko.

i was talking about worst scotus rulings.
chill out a bit! 

[nonesuche]

Caseu-

I find it remarkable that you can attack any political decision the US has made to date in the conflicts in the middle east, yet constantly fail to see the big picture. The middle East is incapable of managing their own conflicts or even containing them, so that the casualties do not extend into London or Paris or NYC. Where is the leadership in that region to lead it's nations to peace and not war for eternity? Who is responsible for that? I didn't realize you consider the US the keeper of the middle East as well........so you want us to solve ALL of those problems but without one ounce of force used to accomplish it? Amazing........why don't you and yours go solve it? If you can I promise we'll thank you for it but I also won't hold my breath. As Tyler has said, you enjoy your freedoms today due to our sacrifices to end the Nazi stampede in your backyard. Too bad you can't thank us for that.

As for Guantanamo, I think it's the responsibility of our Supreme Court to have balance in it's examinations and judgments. That still doesn't change the fact that these terrorists should be subjected to trial and no, they are not US citizens and the tenants of war crimes should guide their outcomes.

I find it quite revealing Louise, that you'd rather go lie in the sun on a greek isle.