Illegal Immigrants

[LouiseVargas]

This topic is bound to invoke a lot of responses from our group. I have thought long and hard before posting this. My thoughts fall into the category of Before September 11 and After September 11. And also, these are just MY thoughts borne out of my personal experience. JMHO.

Before September 11
I've lived in SoCal since 1950, when I was 6. Life was simple then. People trusted each other. The only thing we had to fear was the Russians and we did our drills in school where we dropped under the desk and covered our faces and necks.

When I was 12, my friends and I went out in low rider cars with Mexican guys who were older than us and spoke broken English. But they were very nice. I had absolutely no prejudice whatsoever. My grandma (immigrated from Russia to NY via Ellis Island in 1904) saw me dropped off once and caused a huge ruckus that I was seeing black guys. I said, "No, they're Mexican." She had a problem with dark skin" that amazes me because a lot of Jews have dark skin and black hair.

When I was 14, I went to summer school in Pasadena and walked over a mile back and forth each day in the boiling heat. One day, trudging home and sweating, a young teenage boy came out from his yard and started to talk to me. He said he lived right there and I should come inside to get some cold water. He tenderly took my hand and led me to meet his mother who didn't speak English but she treated me like a princess. Her son walked me home, and every day after that I came in for cold water and he walked me home and carried my books. Some other kids from school saw this and made fun of me for being friends with a Mexican. I never knew why they were looked down upon to such a degree. That boy was not a terrorist.

When I was 18, I attended Pasadena City College, where I met my husband who grew up in Monrovia, CA. We were both foreign language majors and hung out in the foreign students area. There were students from Africa, from Israel, from Europe, from Asia, South America and Russia. All came here on student visas. Later my husband-to-be made friends with a guy from Poland, Bogdan Hachadurian (Polish Armenian). After we finished college, Bogdan said he was not going back to Poland, that the US government never follows up on student visas - he moved and they lost track of him. He planned to marry an American and become a citizen, have children and a well paying job as an accountant job. It all came true. He was never a national security threat.

When I was a young mother of 24, it was typical for Mexican workers to migrate north for the harvest season, make money and go back to Mexico until next year. Caesar Chavez a Mexican equal rights activist in the late 60s got angry about the poor wages and called for a boycott of harvesting until the workers were unionized. The migrants didn't work and I didn't buy grapes, I didn't buy lettuce, I didn't buy anything that was boycotted. Eventually, grapes rotted on the vine and lettuce wilted in the fields. Eventually The United Farm Workers Union was formed wherein the workers got a fair wage and benefits. They were not terrorists.

SoCal is a melting pot. As time went on, I saw more and more foreigners. There was a Thai Town, Korea Town, Chinatown, little Armenia, little Viet Nam, and East LA (which was a Jewish stronghold when I was a child) became home to Hispanic immigrants from Mexico and Central America. I guess the situation was brought to the attention of the State of CA and the Immigration Reform and in 1986 they granted amnesty to thousands.

Over the years, I've seen men hanging out at Home Depot and other such places waiting to be hired as day workers. Since that time until around 2000, when my daughter got a house and money, I didn't spend too much time thinking about it. My daughter needed a housekeeper and got Myrna from Guatemala. She said she worked in a factory sewing clothes for a pittance. She left her young daughter with family and came to LA to work as a housekeeper and she sent money home. My daughter needed a gardener and got Andy, who was legal, but his helpers were not. She got Carlos to come over and wash her car every week. I don't think Carlos and his helpers were legal. But they were not terrorists.

After September 11
My daughter moved to a big house in Santa Monica. She still had Andy and Carlos, but got a new housekeeper. She was legal from Central America and had worked for Mayor Reardon for ten years but my daughter didn't like her. Then she got a new nanny, Blanca from El Salvador, who was recommended by my cousin's nanny MaryLou (from the Philippines and legal). She never broached the question if Blanca was legal. My daughter paid her $100 per day, 6 days per week, plus overtime. Blanca was not only the nanny, but she also cooked. Santa Monica is the prime goal for Hispanics because they earn a lot. It's the best gig ever. Next, my daughter got housekeeper named Sofia who was one of the most wonderful people I've ever met. She worked M, W and F for $100 per day and did a splendid job so the big two story house was always immaculate. She had a husband and small daughter and my daughter gave her a lot of clothing and furniture to ease her life. She gave vacation time and holiday pay, and life was beautiful. We loved Sofia and Blanca and their families. They were not terrorists.

One day Sofia came over to clean my apartment. I couldn't pay her $100 but she accepted $60 with grace. She parked behind my car. The neighbors didn't know whose car that was and called a towing company. When she left, she came running back and saying her car was gone. I checked with the neighbors, found the towing company and asked how much it cost to get the car back. $300. We drove to the ATM, she promised to pay me back (I said you don't have enough money so you don't have to pay me back.) We got to the towing place. They asked for car registration and her driver's license, which she didn't have. I made a deal with them to use my driver's license since the car was towed from my place and they agree. I paid the money and Sofia was on her way home. By the way, the neighbors reimbursed me for the $300. A few days later, Sofia got stopped by the cops and managed to wrangle her way out of it. At that time, she and her husband and young daughter packed up and went back to Mexico City. They were afraid to be picked up and thrown in the slammer and deported.

Soon we began to hear about Homeland Security and how the highjackers came to the US on visas and took flying lessons and were generally lost track of by the government. Just like Bogdan and his student visa. So the East coast was on alert. We didn't realize people were trying to sneak in from Canada and Mexico. I had no clue that Hispanic illegals were living in places so far from the border like MN, the East Coast, WA State, etc. Now I've heard that Al Quida and Hezbollah are learning Spanish and trying to blend in with the Mexicans.

Now I DO realize the importance of securing our borders against terrorists. But there are at least 11 million illegals here now. I would say the majority are not dangerous, they are Hispanic like Sofia, Blanca, Andy, Carlos, etc. There is no way we can deport 11 million people. There will have to be another amnesty or solution. THEN, the government can lock the borders against terrorists.

I don't know if anyone has seen the movie "A Day Without A Mexican." It portrays California without Mexicans. California ceases to function. Restaurants close down. All the gardeners, housekeepers, nannies, car washers, men standing outside the Home Depot, road workers, garbage truck drivers, and everything else you can think of that keeps a state running smoothly are gone. We are totally dependent on having these people in our lives.

If I had to work, I would never consider jobs such as housekeeping, delivering the paper, working in the 7/11, etc. Americans will not do those jobs. And America will never raise the wages high enough for us to work at those jobs. At my prime (1998), I worked in the corporate world for $25 per hour. At that job where I was called Executive Secretary, I did nothing but make copies, fax documents, file documents and answer the phone. $45K per year. Where are our values? Sofia worked much, much harder that I did for $15,600 per year.

So I don't know the answer to solving the illegal immigrant issue. Do you?

 
Sinaloa Cowboys Lyrics
by Bruce Springsteen

Miguel came from a small town in northen Mexico
He came north with his brother Louis to California three years ago
They crossed at the river levee when Louis was just sixteen
And found work together in the fields of the San Joaquin

They left their homes and family
Their father said "My sons one thing you will learn
For everything the north gives it exacts a price in return."
They worked side by side in the orchards
From morning till the day was through
Doing the work the hueros wouldn't do.

Word was out some men in from Sinaloa were looking for some hands
Well deep in Fresno county there was a deserted chicken ranch
There in a small tin shack on the edge of a ravine
Miguel and Louis stood cooking methamphetamine.

You could spend a year in the orchards
Or make half as much in one ten-hour shift
Working for the men from Sinaloa
But if you slipped the hydriodic acid
Could burn right through your skin
They'd leave you spittin' up blood in the desert
If you breathed those fumes in

It was early one winter evening as Miguel stood watch outside
When the shack exploded lighting up the valley night
Miguel carried Louis' body over his shoulder down a swale
To the creekside and there in the tall grass Louis Rosales died

Miguel lifted Louis' body into his truck and then he drove
To where the morning sunlight fell on a eucalyptus grove
There in the dirt he dug up ten thousand dollars all that they'd saved
Kissed his brother's lips and placed him in his grave

[Carnut]

Always seems simple to me, though politically unpalatable, just secure the borders first.

A wall would be nice, whatever it takes to secure the borders.

Then when unemployment is zero and everyone is off welfare start raising immigration quotas and worker visas.

[mrs. red]

Dear LV,
Thank you for sharing those thoughts.  I lived in Georgia for most of my adult life, and like you didn't think anything of the immigrants from Mexico that came over the border and moved Northward up from the border.  They worked hard and for less money than Americans.  I also had the same feeling that you do, that they did jobs that Americans wouldn't do, like perhaps bus boy or dishwasher in resturants.

As time passed, I really stopped giving it any thought at all.  It was simply a fact of life.  My (then) 5 year-old neice would say if you asked who built her new house - "The Mexicans".  They could (and did) crank out a nice house in a matter of a month, working from sun-up to sun-down.

Then I moved to the East Coast... to a town that doesn't have any thing but a mostly lilly white population.   Bus boys, dishwashers, etc are all college kids or high school drop outs, but they are paid much more than the Mexicans were in Atlanta.  Times are changing slightly... we now (I have lived here 5 or so years) have 2 Mexican resturants with Mexicans working in them, there is a growing Aisan population.... but things are much more costly due to the "whiteness" of the area.  It's funny, all of the gardening companies are run and owned by women and they get paid good money.  

I was like you, I didn't think it was possible to see thesejobs filled with out immigrants, but it is - it just makes everything expensive.  

As I have said before, I don't have one issue with anyone legally coming into our Country - but I am not happy about the fact that it is a known thing that to get into this country you can do it via Mexico with complete immunity... and that scares me. I know and have known a lot of Mexicans, and for the 98% that are good, hard working ppl I don't have any issues except come in legally!  

I also have to say, that I, in fact, have really missed living in a diverse area.... it makes life more complete and more interesting but the above are just my observations about what happens without the illegals.

[BTgirl]

I work for Head Start, which is a poverty program funded by federal taxes paid by folks like you and me. We have slots for 984 children, and one of my job duties is to approve all the children's applications. In order for an application to be approved, proof of income for the prior year must be included.

There are a lot of illegal immigrants in our area. Most people say, "they do jobs American won't do." Well, these immigrants have highly-paid jobs in carpet mills for the most part. A woman I know who used to date someone in HR at one of the carpet mills said her bf told her that they hire illegals because they can pay them less than they pay Americans. Word on the street around here is that if you're American and want to work in a carpet mill, you'll have a hard time getting a job. Americans want those jobs, they just can't compete with the lower wages paid to the illegals.

I've also heard it said that illegals also pay taxes. However, I don't see many instances of this happening. We ask to see copies of the tax forms for proof of income. Most illegals tell us they get paid in cash and don't pay taxes.

The illegal immigrants in our area are breaking the school system and the health care system. They don't (for the most part) pay taxes that support the schools, but tend to have large families that use them. Also, they tend not to have health insurance, and so they place undue burden on the emergency care system.

I have met people of every race and color that I like, and hope that I don't have prejudice against any group of people. My desire to secure our borders is not one of prejudice, but economics. Until we do secure the borders, our system will keep being drained by people who take from it but don't contribute to it. Everyone who comes into our country legally should be welcomed with open arms. However, those who do not want to follow the rules for entering legally should be kept out. IMO

P.S. My husband is an immigrant from another country who spent 9 months doing all the paperwork to get here legally and is now an American citizen.

[mrs. red]

Great input BT... thanks!

[LouiseVargas]

Mrs. Red,

Thank you for your kind and reciprocal thoughts.

We both prefer that immigrants come here through legal channels, but 12 million are already here. No one has ever presented a scenario on how to deport them. Yes, sorry to say it's a fact that crossing from Mexico is the easiest route.

I don't know much about how to immigrate legally. I bet there is a long line.

[Carnut]

Don't think anyone seriously thinks any of the 12 million will be deported.

Kinda why it seems reasonable to start by securing the borders first one way or other, and then after a reasonably secure border the politicos can figure what to do with the remaining illegals.

[Carnut]

Heh, heh, just thought about the old saw 'can't fix the roof because it's raining'.

Seems to be the reasoning of the politicos now adays as an excuse to not fix the borders until the illegals are dealt with.

[LouiseVargas]

BT,

Hi! Yes, I know about how long it took your husband to fill out paperwork to get here legally. You both are honorable.

I'm happy some of my taxes are going to the Federal Gov't program called Head Start. It's been around a long time.

Thanks for your report on the illegals in your area working for less wages than an American would accept. Same thing here. I've also heard they pay taxes but I can't see how that could be done.

I know the health care system is carrying a big burden treating illegals. But they have taken the Hippocratic Oath to treat everyone regardless of money or political status. I don't think we can change that. Have a heart and have mercy.

You cite illegals breaking the school system. Chattanooga has less resources than Los Angeles but they have a smaller population. Thus it would seem everything is on the same level.

Schools in my area are expanding. I live across the street from an elementary school where my daughter attended grades K-6. They shut the school down for the summer and have razed the playground, sectioned off a big area and excavated it, etc. I have no clue. I must walk over tomorrow and ask what is going on. I betcha I'll run into a Hispanic cement mixer who doesn't speak English. But back to illegals breaking the school system, Los Angeles welcomes them and constantly adjusts and expands to accommodate them.

BT, besides paving roads (which is my favorite way for the gov't to spend my taxes), I can't think of a better investment than providing health care and education to the illegals and then granting them citizenship. I have not known any illegals who have taken and not given back. They came here for the good life. Willing to work hard and long hours. But there is more to life than working and earning money. There is the matter of being connected to another person, getting married, having children, working hard to provide for them, etc. Generally speaking. all the people in the world have the same goal. To exist peacefully.

How can we deport 12 million illegals? As Carnut said, CLOSE THE BORDERS and deal with the rest later.