Natalee Case Discussion #759 6/18 - 6/22

[Destiny]

Thanks for the explanation, Destiny!! This "letter" is now the big focus, isn't it? I sure hope it is "handwritten"!!!! We could learn so much!! 

Yep Wreck...I've been told that it does exist...I've asked for it...I'll be doing a ringy dingy after lunch time...let's see how far I can get with this new focus...Klaas..I'll be doing a follow-up on that email I forwarded to you last night too  

Destiny

[Destiny]

to my knowledge...whomever took those photos...has the shoe...
=====================
to my knowledge...noone has the acual shoe..that's why I was suprised when Jossy said that ALE has the shoe.
=====================
  Who has the damn shoe?  From everything I have read from your posts and the reports I would guess that the ALE has them. It doesn't do anyone any good if this person took his own pictures,wrote a letter but never gave the shoe to anyone. Plus the OM already stated they were very small womans shoes,but the K-Swiss expert could not even determine that from the pictures. The OM/ALE has them.

Blackmail comes to mind...

[KarmaRoundUp]

I remember, Rob.  In most circles, grafitti is known by its rightful name: VANDALISM to PRIVATE PROPERTY.

Hi Peaches, yes of course it is vandalism   

but the correlation between the shoe and his interest can not be denied. I can see him being attracted to that style of shoe due to his hobby.

Yes, Rob.  That is why I wondered if Anita also got a pair when she was in Florida with him.  I thought Natalee might have grabbed her shoes to try to get out of the house since she would have had none.  That would explain the woman's shoe.  We have all seen Anita's artwork.  Graffiti would be an improvement.

Hi Bearly
I can't help but think that if Natalee was in the in the ditches house of horrors and got a chance to get away,that she would be worried about finding shoes/grabbing shoes to wear for her escape.I know if I was in that situation I don't think I would even have time to think about anything but getting away as fast as possible IMO

Hi Karma:
I thought of that, too.  What if she were in the VDS' main bedroom?  She could have grabbed clothes to go.

True,she could have but I'm thinking if she was in the house of horrors and IF she got a chance to get away.....she didn't make it very far. :*(

[LilPuma]

This evil little woman and a few of her followers were bragging for months about this Documentary at FOK and other Dutch boards. They were trying to build up Gielen like she was this great researcher and everyone should hold there breath until this documentary comes out. Problem is no one in there right mind will touch her lies and misinformation. Aint that right GBMW?

nog een reactie op de documentaire van gielen

stay tuned. gielen's next major work will be the definitive and totally accurate beyond belief of the effect godzilla has been having on the vanishments of tourists and locals on the happy island. gielen will again be aided by renfro of aruba who has intimate contact with scores of taxi drivers who possess 27 languages and photographic memories. the u.s. and dutch navies are expressing great interest as well as the tourism depts. of all caribbean islands who can see wonderful advantages in being able to use godzilla to both enhance their sightseeing potential and to easily explain any lost tourists or locals and still be able to maintain that they are crime free and perfectly safe venues for tourists. gielen and renfro have both expressed great satisfaction with their efforts and results since throwing off the chains of fact, truth, history, and common sense that bind most serious journalists but are completely useless in their efforts.

This evil little woman and a few of her followers were bragging for months about this Documentary at FOK and other Dutch boards. They were trying to build up Gielen like she was this great researcher and everyone should hold there breath until this documentary comes out. Problem is no one in there right mind will touch her lies and misinformation. Aint that right GBMW?

Maybe that was miss Gielen herself under different nics
I'm curious about the documentary though. Because of her reputation I wonder why Dave gave her an interview? The strangest thing about this is Peter Ranzijn for me....I know that cameraman and wouldn't figure him for being such a fool....maybe he needed the work

I did check Prive today; the article suggests that Peter R. de Vries is working on the case and has gotten some more proof when it comes to daddy Paulus helping out....it states that Peter has been on Aruba a couple of times recently to talk to the ALE.

It's a tabloid....but this isn't the first I've heard this...that Peter found more proof on Paulus. I'm just hoping it's true and that this will actually lead to something positive for the case.

If true, this is more proof that there are those in Aruba who have information about the corrupt investigation, but who are they supposed to go to when the Dutch all seem to stick together.  Even if there are honest Dutch authorities in their midst, they'd have no way of knowing who to trust. 

p.s.  I'm not crying a river for anyone in Aruba, simply saying that there are those who don't like what's happened in this case and probably others. 

[Observer]

GBMW:

Sure is a lot of Peters in Holland  Do you know Peter Schouten? I know he sent the first chapter to Beth but has not yet fullfilled his nice campaign he wrote to me about. Also..Dave gave that interview to RG so he could set some very bad misinformation straight.
-------------------
Hi ,

 

Patrick is heavily involved in writing together with E.E. Byars, but of course will one day come to Scaredmonkeys. I have contact with Dana Pretzer and XXX. Since today I’m blogging on blogfornatalee.com as ‘Spokesman Patrick’ and am also willing to do so on ScaredMonkeys so indeed get me approved. I’m also thinking of a nice campaign for all of you scaredmonkeys to get the exclusive read of Patrick’s first chapter, but need to solve a few legal details.

 

The last two weeks the press attacks in Holland were stupid, mean and fierce but I managed to counter them. It would be nice if you put the first part of your message as comment on Patrick’s website (patrickvandereem.nl).

 

Greetings,

 

Peter Schouten.

[Tamikosmom]

If you add up all the drinks Joran bought just in the 30 minutes or so it would be around $100 including tips. Thats a lot of money for a 17 year old to spend when arriving just 30 minutes before the bar was closing on a school night.

*******

Think about it.  Underage Joran had the run of these drinking and gambling establishments.  I suspect that Joran, Deepak, Satish and the pimps along with Freddy's camera were all participants of one aspect of the underground ecomony of Aruba ... pornography.

Janet

+++++++++


Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

After that we drove straight to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak was the driver but I cannot remember now who was sitting beside him. I do not remember now if it was Satish or me. I estimate that we arrived at Carlos & Charlies between 00.15 and 00.30 hours. Deepak parked his car on the parking lot behind Carlos & Charlies and after that we walked into the building of Carlos & Charlies. I don't have to pay because I have a VIP pass. With my VIP pass Deepak and Satish were also allowed in.

To your question as to who gave me the VIP pass to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I got it through the office of Carlos & Charlies. I do not remember with the help of who I got the VIP pass. I got to Carlos & Charlies about one to three times a week.

[johan555]

Maybe that was miss Gielen herself under different nics
I'm curious about the documentary though. Because of her reputation I wonder why Dave gave her an interview? The strangest thing about this is Peter Ranzijn for me....I know that cameraman and wouldn't figure him for being such a fool....maybe he needed the work

I did check Prive today; the article suggests that Peter R. de Vries is working on the case and has gotten some more proof when it comes to daddy Paulus helping out....it states that Peter has been on Aruba a couple of times recently to talk to the ALE.

It's a tabloid....but this isn't the first I've heard this...that Peter found more proof on Paulus. I'm just hoping it's true and that this will actually lead to something positive for the case.
[/quote]

 

This Camera man GBMW ?
they use a handycam 

[Destiny]

So we still don't know who has those shoes?  LOL  Why does that not surprise me?  Good work Destiny!

Didn't Jossy tell Dana that ALE had the shoe and he didn't think they were doing anything with it?  Of course, they might have sent it to Holland for forensic analysis, or it could be in Jacobs' trunk with the rest of the evidence, or it could be in the incinerator with Deepak's back seat................If pressed, they might tell us they found chocolate.  That was the show when some thought Jossy didn't sound like himself, but he usually doesn't report things without something to back it up.     Aruba needs a No Spin Zone.  Someone who will grill people about contradictory reports. 

I too listened to that show...that is why I was surprised when Jossy said that ALE has the shoe...

But maybe it's better to say that..then say...everyone has photos only of the shoe...I hate that shoe!

[Observer]

If you add up all the drinks Joran bought just in the 30 minutes or so it would be around $100 including tips. Thats a lot of money for a 17 year old to spend when arriving just 30 minutes before the bar was closing on a school night.

*******

Think about it.  Underage Joran had the run of these drinking and gambling establishments.  I suspect that Joran, Deepak, Satish and the pimps along with Freddy's camera were all participants of one aspect of the underground ecomony of Aruba ... pornography.

Janet

Well it certainly was not Drug Dealing as far as I am concerned,at least not Joran or Satish and I doubt Deepak. Joran may have sold a little X but I do not see anything more then that. I can't prove it but I am sure they were involved in pornography,not necesarily making much money off of it but thats what these Pimps did for there own conquests and enjoyment. I still believe there is a connection to bangbus and the pink patrol and that is why PVDS went to FLA and probably the motive for that night.

As far as how Joran got his money? Thats a good question as I would think that link would be the casino,probably the Excelsior. I do not believe these pimps made much money from pornography nor do I believe they drugged many female tourists,I believe Joran graduated from drugging a few local girls and taking pictures of them. They took it to the next level after meeting a porn producer or a older sexual deviant with $$.IMO

[Destiny]

If you add up all the drinks Joran bought just in the 30 minutes or so it would be around $100 including tips. Thats a lot of money for a 17 year old to spend when arriving just 30 minutes before the bar was closing on a school night.

Where does he get all that money from??????

It's NOT normal!!!!!

[wreck]

Sure is a lot of Peters in Holland

  .... and "Richards" too 

[Tamikosmom]

If you add up all the drinks Joran bought just in the 30 minutes or so it would be around $100 including tips. Thats a lot of money for a 17 year old to spend when arriving just 30 minutes before the bar was closing on a school night.

*******

Think about it.  Underage Joran had the run of these drinking and gambling establishments.  I suspect that Joran, Deepak, Satish and the pimps along with Freddy's camera were all participants of one aspect of the underground ecomony of Aruba ... pornography.

Janet

+++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

After that we drove straight to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak was the driver but I cannot remember now who was sitting beside him. I do not remember now if it was Satish or me. I estimate that we arrived at Carlos & Charlies between 00.15 and 00.30 hours. Deepak parked his car on the parking lot behind Carlos & Charlies and after that we walked into the building of Carlos & Charlies. I don't have to pay because I have a VIP pass. With my VIP pass Deepak and Satish were also allowed in.

To your question as to who gave me the VIP pass to Carlos & Charlies, I answer you that I got it through the office of Carlos & Charlies. I do not remember with the help of who I got the VIP pass. I got to Carlos & Charlies about one to three times a week.

The above should have read ... Joran, Deepak, Satish and the pimps are participants in TWO aspects of the underground economy of Aruba ... PORNOGRAPHY AND FIXED GAMBLING.

Janet

++++++++++++++

EXCELSIOR CASINO

Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE

Page 39 - Following our brief conversation, we all walk immediately to the fron desk to ask about someone named Joran who is staying in the hotel and plays in the casino here.  The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name.  "Oh! yes ... yes ... Joran.  He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here.  He likes to prey on young female tourists.  Especially the blonds.   He is tall.  Good-looking boy.  Like a Dutch marine."  My mouth drops wide open.  "Where is he from?" I ask her.  She replies.  "He lives in Aruba."  I stutter.  "He's ... he's not a tourist just here for the summer?"  "Non, non," she says.

It takes a few moments to absorb this information.  The supposed tourist who befriended some of Natalee's classmates and who told them he was staying at their hotel lied tothem.  He isn't a tourist.  He isn't staying here.


RADISSON CASINO

Deepak Kalpoe
Suspect Statement
June 13, 2005

Andre asked me to come inside. I did go inside. I did not play, but did look at the cards of Joran and Guido.

At some given moment in time a tourist who was sitting at Joran's table got angry. The tourist thought that we were looking at the cards of other players and signaling/deciding for Joran when he should play or not. It lead to a disagreement between Joran and the tourist. The manager of the Radisson Casino came over and everything calmed down. I drank about four "whisky coke" gedronken in the Radisson Casino. I now that Joran drank more because the waiters were constantly bringing him drinks.   I am not sure .what he was drinking. His drinks were of a yellow colour. I think it was “whisky soda" or 'Whisky water".

[always 1]

That type of shoe where I live would be considered a "skaters" (skateboard) shoe.  Of course I dont see many pimps.

[Tamikosmom]

If Joran was illegally gambling and drinking without the knowledge of the "powers that be" ... logic dictates that he would have been held accountable ... not just for underage gambling and drinking ... but for just setting foot on the premises of these establishments.

The "powers that be" cannot touch Joran ... both Joran and Paulus could bring them all down.

As ******* implied ... the Natalee Holloway case goes far beyond the disappearance of an 18 year old American citizen.

Janet

++++++++++++

John Kelly
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
April 11, 2006

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times.  And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened.

COSBY: You know, and, John, also, why would that be a significant—why is that in conflict to something else we’ve heard maybe from Paulus before?

KELLY: Well, he’s just claiming that, you know, he’s kept an eye on his son, you know, he’s kept him on a short leash, and, you know, his son is very well-behaved. And it turns out that he’s, you know, got him at casinos. If you’re under 18, you’re not legally even allowed in casinos, so his son was breaking the law with him enabling it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/


Jossy Mansur
DANA PRETZER
July 23, 2007

Dana: One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot.  Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy:  No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months.   I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/07/23/the-dana-pretzer-show-monday-july-23rd-2007-special-guests-larry-sinclair-jossy-mansur-ladonna-meredith-attorney-jay-paul-deratany/

[Tamikosmom]

If underage Joran van der Sloot was not a participant in the underground economy of Aruba in regards to pornography and fixed gambling ...

1.  Why is he allowed onto the premises of the drinking and gambling establishments?

2.  Why is he afforded VIP passes as well as open lines of credit?

3.  Where does he accumulate the bucks to support this lifestyle?

4.  Why is he now subjected to legal accountability in regards to the Natalee Holloway case?

Janet

[wreck]

If underage Joran van der Sloot was not a participant in the underground economy of Aruba in regards to pornography and fixed gambling ...

1.  Why is he allowed onto the premises of the drinking and gambling establishments?

2.  Why is he afforded VIP passes as well as open lines of credit?

3.  Where does he accumulate the bucks to support this lifestyle?

4.  Why is he now subjected to legal accountability in regards to the Natalee Holloway case?

Janet

All great points, Janet! I have thought from very early on that these "pimps" were like junior members of the mob. I STILL think Deepak's car actually belongs to Joran. Deepak is the "caretaker" of it since Joran is underage. Remember when Charles Croes asked the locals at the beach who drives a silver honda??? They all yelled out "Joran".

[bleachedblack]

If this offends anyone let me know and I will delete the picture. I am posting it because I wanted to show how skeletal the remains are and I am not so sure the other body was in the water as long as this one.


http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3137/floater7re8.jpg

Whoa,is this a image of the 2nd body to wash up or the 3rd?

I did not have time to look at it closer last night to confirm it is the no 2 as it appears to be the same part of that beach and similar material placed on top of the body. I was just amazed how skeletal the remains were,something I did not see in the other pictures the previous days.

Exactly *******,that's why I thought this image was the 3rd body because it looked so different from the first 2 I saw.



I thought I recall body #1 missing flesh left leg, body #2 had both legs, and now this last one #3 is missing essentially flesh from both legs.

[can]

So we still don't know who has those shoes?  LOL  Why does that not surprise me?  Good work Destiny!

Didn't Jossy tell Dana that ALE had the shoe and he didn't think they were doing anything with it?  Of course, they might have sent it to Holland for forensic analysis, or it could be in Jacobs' trunk with the rest of the evidence, or it could be in the incinerator with Deepak's back seat................If pressed, they might tell us they found chocolate.  That was the show when some thought Jossy didn't sound like himself, but he usually doesn't report things without something to back it up.     Aruba needs a No Spin Zone.  Someone who will grill people about contradictory reports. 

I too listened to that show...that is why I was surprised when Jossy said that ALE has the shoe...

But maybe it's better to say that..then say...everyone has photos only of the shoe...I hate that shoe!

Destiny - Is it known where the exact location of that grafitti K Swiss was photographed? 
If so, has anyone looked to see if it is still there?
Or was it put there for purpose of photographing and/or??..and removed.
Is the location important? or a message to someone?  Otherwise, couldn't the photo of the shoe been taken anywhere? ...the holder's home, for instance?
ALE said the shoe was a small woman's shoe.  Were they able to determine this from the photo only, when the KSwiss mfg. could not?
Very intriguing...
Please correct if there is something I have misunderstood.
Thank you for all that you do!

[Observer]

It bothers me also that the first place charles went the kids identified Joran with just a description of Deepaks car.
----------------------------------
Satish PV 6-10-05

 What kind of a car does Deepak have?

My brother has a Honda Civic, colour grey, built in 1999 I think and I don't know the license plate number.

When did Deepak buy the car?

According to me Deepak bought the car two years ago. I don't know when exactly.

From who did Deepak buy this car?

Deepak bought the car from a boy named David. I don't know further details about David. David lives on Aruba.
===============================

Deepak PV 6-13-05

To your question from whom I bought the car, I can say the following. I bought the car from a man called David GROSS. He works at a company called "Carufa". I must tell you that when they installed the sound in my car, they used a lot of glue and seal/sealant under the carpet of the car. They had to remove the carpets to pull new cables through the car. You can verify this at "Automotive Enterprises". The man who installed it is called Osman OSMAN. I don't know if anyone had an accident with this car prior to it being sold to me.

[Lala'sMom]

Maybe the car really is Deepak's but Joran was helping him pay for it?  That would give Joran the edge to use it as he pleases....slaves and all.