Natalee Case Discussion #759 6/18 - 6/22

[Lala'sMom]

Does anyone remember when Paulus was supposed to have taken that trip to Miami?  Could he even get out of Aruba without someone knowing?  Who did he meet in Miami?  Could Paulus have sent someone else to Miami instead?

[Observer]

Maybe the car really is Deepak's but Joran was helping him pay for it?  That would give Joran the edge to use it as he pleases....slaves and all.

The only slave I see here is Satish..Awful nice of him to clean his brothers car and drive him to work and watch over it when he was working.

S.K. PV 6-13-05
To answer your question when it was the last time Deepak´s car was cleaned: The last time Deepak and I cleaned the car it was Sunday May 29, 2005, during the evening. The car is cleaned once a week. Usually by me. The car wash usually takes place on Fridays and Saturdays during the afternoon. Sunday May 29, 2005 was the only exception. But the cleaning happened, as I said, because of the ants that entered the car.

[Observer]

What exactly did Joran do at the club as a intern? Did he have keys?

S.K. PV 6-13-05 snip

When he picked me up we went straight to the Racquet Club, near Marriot. My brother told me we were going to Joran. He is an intern at the club. In front of the entrance of the club the three of us met and talked. We talked about what happened. Joran told him the police called him to take him to drive the route. We told him which route we drove so he knew where to go. We spoke for about 15 minutes. We did not speak long because the police was on its way to pick up Joran. After that we drove straight home. At home my brother and I finished our sister´s home work. It had to be finished the next day. As we were busy my brother got a phone call from Joran. My brother told me we had to go to Joran´s later on. After we finished our sister´s work we went to Joran. I drove the car to his house.

During the days after that Thursday, we met Joran more often to discuss the case of Natalee. I have to tell though, we could never talk alone because Joran´s father came between us all the time, to hear what we had to say. Joran´s father wanted to know everything but we did not tell him the truth. Except Freddy, nobody knew we left Joran and the girl behind at the Marriot Beach. To answer your question whether Joran drives his parents' car every now and then, I can say he has no driver´s license. His parents do not allow him to drive the car, and he even does not do that in secret. Joran can drive a car, however. He once drove my mother´s car.

[Rob]

To your question from whom I bought the car, I can say the following. I bought the car from a man called David GROSS. He works at a company called "Carufa". I must tell you that when they installed the sound in my car, they used a lot of glue and seal/sealant under the carpet of the car. They had to remove the carpets to pull new cables through the car. You can verify this at "Automotive Enterprises". The man who installed it is called Osman OSMAN. I don't know if anyone had an accident with this car prior to it being sold to me.

*******, this is from Grande's bucket... could this be the same place David works? probably not.. but the spelling is similar. I have never heard of a business called "Carufa"...

[MumInOhio]

It bothers me also that the first place charles went the kids identified Joran with just a description of Deepaks car.
----------------------------------
Satish PV 6-10-05

 What kind of a car does Deepak have?

My brother has a Honda Civic, colour grey, built in 1999 I think and I don't know the license plate number.

When did Deepak buy the car?

According to me Deepak bought the car two years ago. I don't know when exactly.

From who did Deepak buy this car?

Deepak bought the car from a boy named David. I don't know further details about David. David lives on Aruba.
===============================

Deepak PV 6-13-05

To your question from whom I bought the car, I can say the following. I bought the car from a man called David GROSS. He works at a company called "Carufa". I must tell you that when they installed the sound in my car, they used a lot of glue and seal/sealant under the carpet of the car. They had to remove the carpets to pull new cables through the car. You can verify this at "Automotive Enterprises". The man who installed it is called Osman OSMAN. I don't know if anyone had an accident with this car prior to it being sold to me.

Hi *******…I could not find anything on David or ‘Carufa’ when I checked.

Paulus was surprised to see the Mountain Brook group as early as he did, as the planes didn’t arrive before Thursday. Was service to Aruba only from Thursday to Monday at that time?

Anyone remember how long that Val and Sebastian were in the States, IIRC they arrived on June 22nd or 23rd., and were supposed to have stayed a few weeks?  Plenty of van der Sloots here in the US for them to have stayed with, from Michigan to Florida..TIA

[bleachedblack]

If underage Joran van der Sloot was not a participant in the underground economy of Aruba in regards to pornography and fixed gambling ...

1.  Why is he allowed onto the premises of the drinking and gambling establishments?

2.  Why is he afforded VIP passes as well as open lines of credit?

3.  Where does he accumulate the bucks to support this lifestyle?

4.  Why is he now subjected to legal accountability in regards to the Natalee Holloway case?

Janet

# 3 I can speculate on how he possibly did earn money while in Aruba. My guess would be small scale money laundering. Some one , say Posner at Excelsior Casino, for example, might pay Joran, and each of the gambling PIMPS say $500 dollars a night in illegal money. The minute they cash the money in--for chips--it becomes legal. They gamble, they win some, they loose some...they generate activity at the tables and it encourages tourists to gamble (hey this kid can play so will I?, maybe I'll even take his money or hey this table/game seems interesting I'll play?, similar to being the first one out on the dance floor...). After Joran is there for an hour or so.....cashes in his chips ...goes to another casino, same scenario. Multiply this X several PIMPS X several casinos X multiple nights per week. Joran ends up making himself money from what he is initially given. JMO

[Tamikosmom]

If you add up all the drinks Joran bought just in the 30 minutes or so it would be around $100 including tips. Thats a lot of money for a 17 year old to spend when arriving just 30 minutes before the bar was closing on a school night.

*******

Think about it.  Underage Joran had the run of these drinking and gambling establishments.  I suspect that Joran, Deepak, Satish and the pimps along with Freddy's camera were all participants of one aspect of the underground ecomony of Aruba ... pornography.

Janet

Well it certainly was not Drug Dealing as far as I am concerned,at least not Joran or Satish and I doubt Deepak. Joran may have sold a little X but I do not see anything more then that. I can't prove it but I am sure they were involved in pornography,not necesarily making much money off of it but thats what these Pimps did for there own conquests and enjoyment. I still believe there is a connection to bangbus and the pink patrol and that is why PVDS went to FLA and probably the motive for that night.

As far as how Joran got his money? Thats a good question as I would think that link would be the casino,probably the Excelsior. I do not believe these pimps made much money from pornography nor do I believe they drugged many female tourists,I believe Joran graduated from drugging a few local girls and taking pictures of them. They took it to the next level after meeting a porn producer or a older sexual deviant with $$.IMO

There was a dialogue a while back on this forum that implied that  there was a room set up at the HI for pornographic purposes.

According to Joran's declaraction ... he tried immediately after leaving C&C's to convince Natalee to go back to the Holiday Inn.  However ... Natalee rejected this suggestion.

I think that they is the "quick stop" within a block of C&C ... the "quick stop" that David Kock referred to ... was all about contacting the pimps that there was a change of plans ... the VDS' residence was the meeting place.

Janet

+++++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

Then Satish, Natalee and myself walked to Deepak's car. Natalee and I walked hand in hand. When we arrived at the car Deepak was already waiting for us. We got into the car and before Deepak drove off I told Deepak and Satish that Natalee wanted to go to my house but that I could not take her there because my father and brothers were home. After I told Deepak and Satish this they said it was OK. Then I told the girl that I could not take her to my house but that I could come to her hotel room. She answered me that she did not want to go to her hotel room and that she wanted to go to the North coast to watch the sharks.

To your question as to what Natalee meant by wanting to go to my house, I answer you the following. With this Natalee according to me meant that she wanted to have fleshly intercourse with me. I could see from her body language that she wanted to have fleshly intercourse me.

[MumInOhio]

What exactly did Joran do at the club? Did he have keys?

S.K. PV 6-13-05 snip

When he picked me up we went straight to the Racquet Club, near Marriot. My brother told me we were going to Joran. He is an intern at the club. In front of the entrance of the club the three of us met and talked. We talked about what happened. Joran told him the police called him to take him to drive the route. We told him which route we drove so he knew where to go. We spoke for about 15 minutes. We did not speak long because the police was on its way to pick up Joran. After that we drove straight home. At home my brother and I finished our sister´s home work. It had to be finished the next day. As we were busy my brother got a phone call from Joran. My brother told me we had to go to Joran´s later on. After we finished our sister´s work we went to Joran. I drove the car to his house.

During the days after that Thursday, we met Joran more often to discuss the case of Natalee. I have to tell though, we could never talk alone because Joran´s father came between us all the time, to hear what we had to say. Joran´s father wanted to know everything but we did not tell him the truth. Except Freddy, nobody knew we left Joran and the girl behind at the Marriot Beach. To answer your question whether Joran drives his parents' car every now and then, I can say he has no driver´s license. His parents do not allow him to drive the car, and he even does not do that in secret. Joran can drive a car, however. He once drove my mother´s car.

The Kalpoes were even asked about Val and whether he could drive a car...I agree with wreck - Joran's car!  Deepak may have been the driver.

[ldstlou]

This evil little woman and a few of her followers were bragging for months about this Documentary at FOK and other Dutch boards. They were trying to build up Gielen like she was this great researcher and everyone should hold there breath until this documentary comes out. Problem is no one in there right mind will touch her lies and misinformation. Aint that right GBMW?

nog een reactie op de documentaire van gielen

stay tuned. gielen's next major work will be the definitive and totally accurate beyond belief of the effect godzilla has been having on the vanishments of tourists and locals on the happy island. gielen will again be aided by renfro of aruba who has intimate contact with scores of taxi drivers who possess 27 languages and photographic memories. the u.s. and dutch navies are expressing great interest as well as the tourism depts. of all caribbean islands who can see wonderful advantages in being able to use godzilla to both enhance their sightseeing potential and to easily explain any lost tourists or locals and still be able to maintain that they are crime free and perfectly safe venues for tourists. gielen and renfro have both expressed great satisfaction with their efforts and results since throwing off the chains of fact, truth, history, and common sense that bind most serious journalists but are completely useless in their efforts.

This evil little woman and a few of her followers were bragging for months about this Documentary at FOK and other Dutch boards. They were trying to build up Gielen like she was this great researcher and everyone should hold there breath until this documentary comes out. Problem is no one in there right mind will touch her lies and misinformation. Aint that right GBMW?

Maybe that was miss Gielen herself under different nics
I'm curious about the documentary though. Because of her reputation I wonder why Dave gave her an interview? The strangest thing about this is Peter Ranzijn for me....I know that cameraman and wouldn't figure him for being such a fool....maybe he needed the work

I did check Prive today; the article suggests that Peter R. de Vries is working on the case and has gotten some more proof when it comes to daddy Paulus helping out....it states that Peter has been on Aruba a couple of times recently to talk to the ALE.

It's a tabloid....but this isn't the first I've heard this...that Peter found more proof on Paulus. I'm just hoping it's true and that this will actually lead to something positive for the case.

If true, this is more proof that there are those in Aruba who have information about the corrupt investigation, but who are they supposed to go to when the Dutch all seem to stick together.  Even if there are honest Dutch authorities in their midst, they'd have no way of knowing who to trust. 

p.s.  I'm not crying a river for anyone in Aruba, simply saying that there are those who don't like what's happened in this case and probably others. 

Keeping my fingers crossed on the paulus angle GB...thanks for the update!!

[Rob]

Paulus was surprised to see the Mountain Brook group as early as he did, as the planes didn’t arrive before Thursday. Was service to Aruba only from Thursday to Monday at that time?

Mum, I find this hard to believe. I used to take an Apple Charter. I would stay Saturday to Saturday. And sometimes I would stay 10 or 11 days and would have to take AA and they would be coming and going all week, and several times a day - once in the morning and once in the evening for sure.

[MumInOhio]

Tamikosmom...Good Morning...Do you have the interview where Beth ws asked about or talked about the shoe? Also IIRC there was one from Dompig and one from Jossy. I am really interested as to the date the shoe information came out1 Thanks in Advance!

[Observer]

Hello Mum The family in the U.S. here likes it spelled vandersloot and not van der sloot ..lol  and there are lots of them in Michigan. Back when I use to observe the site meter a bit I was watching one of them at MSU who watched our every posts a while back. If you go to facebook.com you will see several vandersloots at that university and one of them teaches there. Of course there are others around the country.
===============================
  Marriott Aruba Surf Club     Floating weekevery other EVEN year     for sale asking:  $14500     mtnc: $550
Aruba, Caribbean    ID:MSU   (5 star)   Season: Gold

TUG Ad# 65685
posted 04-20-2008
changed: 04-20-2008
expiring 07-20-2008    2 bedrooms 2 baths sleeps 4
Beautiful Marriott Aruba Surf Club Biennial Even Year Usage Gold Season!
Contact: David Gross at RadioDavid3@aol.com Phone: 718-684-5062 (TUG Member)

[MumInOhio]

Paulus was surprised to see the Mountain Brook group as early as he did, as the planes didn’t arrive before Thursday. Was service to Aruba only from Thursday to Monday at that time?

Mum, I find this hard to believe. I used to take an Apple Charter. I would stay Saturday to Saturday. And sometimes I would stay 10 or 11 days and would have to take AA and they would be coming and going all week, and several times a day - once in the morning and once in the evening for sure.

Thanks Rob...I know this was posted about recently and that is all I know on it.

Caps, if you are still here...is this incorrect, that planes didn't arrive in Aruba until Thursday in 2005?  TIA

[Rob]

Paulus was surprised to see the Mountain Brook group as early as he did, as the planes didn’t arrive before Thursday. Was service to Aruba only from Thursday to Monday at that time?

Mum, I find this hard to believe. I used to take an Apple Charter. I would stay Saturday to Saturday. And sometimes I would stay 10 or 11 days and would have to take AA and they would be coming and going all week, and several times a day - once in the morning and once in the evening for sure.

Thanks Rob...I know this was posted about recently and that is all I know on it.

Caps, if you are still here...is this incorrect, that planes didn't arrive in Aruba until Thursday in 2005?  TIA

maybe numbnuts Paulus thought they might arrive by cruise ship. Those arrive usually on Wednesday. 

[GBMW]

GBMW:

Sure is a lot of Peters in Holland  Do you know Peter Schouten? I know he sent the first chapter to Beth but has not yet fullfilled his nice campaign he wrote to me about. Also..Dave gave that interview to RG so he could set some very bad misinformation straight.
-------------------
Hi ,

 

Patrick is heavily involved in writing together with E.E. Byars, but of course will one day come to Scaredmonkeys. I have contact with Dana Pretzer and XXX. Since today I’m blogging on blogfornatalee.com as ‘Spokesman Patrick’ and am also willing to do so on ScaredMonkeys so indeed get me approved. I’m also thinking of a nice campaign for all of you scaredmonkeys to get the exclusive read of Patrick’s first chapter, but need to solve a few legal details.

 

The last two weeks the press attacks in Holland were stupid, mean and fierce but I managed to counter them. It would be nice if you put the first part of your message as comment on Patrick’s website (patrickvandereem.nl).

 

Greetings,

 

Peter Schouten.

Isn't Peter Schouten the mediaguy for Peter R. de Vries as well? I think I saw his name in our agenda as well for Peter R. de Vries....

Have you e-mailed him about it recently or asked Patrick through his website about it?

I just don't trust Gielen....and have doubts whether she interviewed Dave with integrity in her mind...that's all.

[MumInOhio]

Hello Mum The family in the U.S. here likes it spelled vandersloot and not van der sloot ..lol  and there are lots of them in Michigan. Back when I use to observe the site meter a bit I was watching one of them at MSU who watched our every posts a while back. If you go to facebook.com you will see several vandersloots at that university and one of them teaches there. Of course there are others around the country.
===============================
  Marriott Aruba Surf Club     Floating weekevery other EVEN year     for sale asking:  $14500     mtnc: $550
Aruba, Caribbean    ID:MSU   (5 star)   Season: Gold

TUG Ad# 65685
posted 04-20-2008
changed: 04-20-2008
expiring 07-20-2008    2 bedrooms 2 baths sleeps 4
Beautiful Marriott Aruba Surf Club Biennial Even Year Usage Gold Season!
Contact: David Gross at RadioDavid3@aol.com Phone: 718-684-5062 (TUG Member)

Thanks ******* on the David Gross info...Michigan - Zedans - right smack in the middle of Paul Brough territory! Same towns as that PetClinix article!

[Rob]

Hey Des, I have been emailing and calling for the phone number for 8 or so days now. I think he has it, but can't find it. sheesh!!!

I'm not sure I can get it... I'm sorry, please accept my apology. I tried my best and didn't want you to think I have forgotten.

[MumInOhio]

*******......do you know which of the vandersloots here are related to Paulus? I found the ones in Michigan after seeing Val's pic from Michigan. I would like to know who Val and Sebastian stayed with in June 2005 and in which state.  TIA

[Destiny]

KLAAS...nanner basket...rush...

Destiny

[Destiny]

Hey Des, I have been emailing and calling for the phone number for 8 or so days now. I think he has it, but can't find it. sheesh!!!

I'm not sure I can get it... I'm sorry, please accept my apology. I tried my best and didn't want you to think I have forgotten.

Don't worry Sweetums...I'll get it....I have my ways