Natalee Case Discussion #759 6/18 - 6/22

[SS]

SS:

Why didn't the ALE and Dutch Investigators just show a picture of the exact shoes Joran was missing? Dompig stressed how crucial it was to find these shoes and wanted everyone to be on the lookout..But he never gives a description?  Just K-Swiss size 14? Isnt this the same guy who bragged about being highly trained by the FBI,Arubans,Israeli and Dutch? From what I have read he said he bought them in Florida and it would be all too easy to identify the time and location these were bought. The FBI could easily track down the exact manufacturer,style,color and size within hours. Were they classics all white,limited edition graffitti or another design that was blue and white?

The answer is simple - ALE lies.  Just more disinformation.  If I had to place a bet, I would say that the shoes he was wearing were the blue and white ones that were mentioned in his statement and the ones that he was wearing in the award ceremony shortly before Natalee disappeared.  Urine made a point of showing the white K-Swiss shoea during the interview to throw more confusion into the investigation.  I have actually thought that the recently found shoe could actually belong to Joran.  The shoe could be an old one that no longer fits.  I wonder if Val, Anita, or Paulass placed the shoe and sent the letter to create even more confusion.  It just doesn't fit that Urine was wearing those white K-Swiss shoes the night that Natalee disappeared.

[Observer]

Isn't Peter Schouten the mediaguy for Peter R. de Vries as well? I think I saw his name in our agenda as well for Peter R. de Vries....

Have you e-mailed him about it recently or asked Patrick through his website about it?

I just don't trust Gielen....and have doubts whether she interviewed Dave with integrity in her mind...that's all.

I still can't believe you saw all those places here in the states..You lucky girl!

Yes,I believe he works with Peter R as well. He probably isn't very happy with me and no I havent had any contact with him since.

No one trusts Gielen except her friend Anita and we all know what her intentions are. She cannot and will never have the same interests in her reporting as she did in her last documentary,everyone is on to her and officials like Mos have have gone on record that she has no credibility. Also that article by the telegraaf reporter really was excellent and informed many people about the real Rene'e Gielen.

[Observer]

*******......do you know which of the vandersloots here are related to Paulus? I found the ones in Michigan after seeing Val's pic from Michigan. I would like to know who Val and Sebastian stayed with in June 2005 and in which state.  TIA

I cannot say for sure which Van Der Sloots are directly related to this family either here in the U.S or in Holland. I do have my suspicions though. Did you check out the vandersloots on facebook.com in Michigan? Could one of those little rascals be one of our trolls?

Val has a pic in Michigan? I do not know which state they went to or who they stayed with. If I recall correctly they said Family,although they seem to have various friends in several states. PVDS even had the gall to tell one of them in Carolina on June 11th 2005 that NH and Joran were doing drugs,she hit her head and drowned.

[MumInOhio]

*******......do you know which of the vandersloots here are related to Paulus? I found the ones in Michigan after seeing Val's pic from Michigan. I would like to know who Val and Sebastian stayed with in June 2005 and in which state.  TIA

I cannot say for sure which Van Der Sloots are directly related to this family either here in the U.S or in Holland. I do have my suspicions though. Did you check out the vandersloots on facebook.com in Michigan? Could one of those little rascals be one of our trolls?

Val has a pic in Michigan? I do not know which state they went to or who they stayed with. If I recall correctly they said Family,although they seem to have various friends in several states. PVDS even had the gall to tell one of them in Carolina on June 11th 2005 and said that NH and Joran were doing drugs,she hit her head and drowned.

The pic from Michigan was with a girl, and I just saw it a couple of days back! May have been in the Important Documents thread! Will have a look at facebook right now!

North Carolina?  Was that to do with the kid that went to ISA with Joran? I recall the woman in a store talking to a customer, I think her name was Rosa Parker, can't recall his right now! I think NC popped up a couple of times!  TIA

[Lala'sMom]

Michigan?  Well that explains our obnoxious poster from Michigan that thought the sun could rise and set in Joran pants.   Maybe also explains why there is nothing in Joran's pants. Hmmmm!   

[kkate]

Michigan?  Well that explains our obnoxious poster from Michigan that thought the sun could rise and set in Joran pants.   Maybe also explains why there is nothing in Joran's pants. Hmmmm!   

You peeked! 

[Tamikosmom]

SS:

Why didn't the ALE and Dutch Investigators just show a picture of the exact shoes Joran was missing? Dompig stressed how crucial it was to find these shoes and wanted everyone to be on the lookout..But he never gives a description?  Just K-Swiss size 14? Isnt this the same guy who bragged about being highly trained by the FBI,Arubans,Israeli and Dutch? From what I have read he said he bought them in Florida and it would be all too easy to identify the time and location these were bought. The FBI could easily track down the exact manufacturer,style,color and size within hours. Were they classics all white,limited edition graffitti or another design that was blue and white?

I suspect "the shoes" are a non issue ... a distraction ... a smokescreen to distance the real issues that implicate Joran, Deepak, Satish and Joran in the events encompassing the morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.

I speculate that "the shoes" are a topic that the "powers that be" in Aruba is focusing on as they go through the motions of attempting to convince America that a genuine investigation is taking place.

******* is correct.  Why was there not an image of the "missing" shoes ever provided to the media?

Why? I contend ... the "powers that be" would have to concede ... they did not have a clue.  In June 2005 ... in his declaractions ... Joran van der Sloot had identified the "missing" shoes as white sneakers ... tan boots ... blue and white sneakers and ... then in March 2006 reverted back to white sneakers.

In August 2008 ... Royland Tromp stated that in one of Joran's declarations he implied that he "might" have lost a pair of shoes.

 

Janet

+++++++++++++

Aruban police seek suspect's shoes
Another Van der Sloot interview, landfill search expected Tuesday
Tuesday, August 2, 2005 Posted

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- Aruban authorities investigating the disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway are looking for a pair of size-14 tennis shoes that suspect Joran van der Sloot might have lost, a police official said.

"He says he might have lost a pair of sneakers on the beach the night Natalee disappeared," said lead police investigator Roy Tromp. "That's what he claims in one of his many statements."

Tromp said the 17-year-old suspect described the shoes as white and blue and brand new.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/01/aruba.missing/index.html

[Destiny]

If you add up all the drinks Joran bought just in the 30 minutes or so it would be around $100 including tips. Thats a lot of money for a 17 year old to spend when arriving just 30 minutes before the bar was closing on a school night.

*******

Think about it.  Underage Joran had the run of these drinking and gambling establishments.  I suspect that Joran, Deepak, Satish and the pimps along with Freddy's camera were all participants of one aspect of the underground ecomony of Aruba ... pornography.

Janet

Well it certainly was not Drug Dealing as far as I am concerned,at least not Joran or Satish and I doubt Deepak. Joran may have sold a little X but I do not see anything more then that. I can't prove it but I am sure they were involved in pornography,not necesarily making much money off of it but thats what these Pimps did for there own conquests and enjoyment. I still believe there is a connection to bangbus and the pink patrol and that is why PVDS went to FLA and probably the motive for that night.

As far as how Joran got his money? Thats a good question as I would think that link would be the casino,probably the Excelsior. I do not believe these pimps made much money from pornography nor do I believe they drugged many female tourists,I believe Joran graduated from drugging a few local girls and taking pictures of them. They took it to the next level after meeting a porn producer or a older sexual deviant with $$.IMO

There was a dialogue a while back on this forum that implied that  there was a room set up at the HI for pornographic purposes.

According to Joran's declaraction ... he tried immediately after leaving C&C's to convince Natalee to go back to the Holiday Inn.  However ... Natalee rejected this suggestion.

I think that they is the "quick stop" within a block of C&C ... the "quick stop" that David Kock referred to ... was all about contacting the pimps that there was a change of plans ... the VDS' residence was the meeting place.

Janet

+++++++++++

Joran van der Sloot
Suspect Statement
June 9, 2005

Then Satish, Natalee and myself walked to Deepak's car. Natalee and I walked hand in hand. When we arrived at the car Deepak was already waiting for us. We got into the car and before Deepak drove off I told Deepak and Satish that Natalee wanted to go to my house but that I could not take her there because my father and brothers were home. After I told Deepak and Satish this they said it was OK. Then I told the girl that I could not take her to my house but that I could come to her hotel room. She answered me that she did not want to go to her hotel room and that she wanted to go to the North coast to watch the sharks.

To your question as to what Natalee meant by wanting to go to my house, I answer you the following. With this Natalee according to me meant that she wanted to have fleshly intercourse with me. I could see from her body language that she wanted to have fleshly intercourse me.

Janet...there was a room set up in the basement of Lorenzos' house for that purpose...

Destiny

[Observer]

MUM:

I can't remember those peoples names in N.Carolina at the moment but you got the correct story. I do know that the timing of this story fits the events of June 10th and 11th 2005 that we all know. The N.E. reported some very important things on this case and some of them are fact.
------------------------------------------
Snip
Two of those sources are Jim Dooley, a South Carolina job recruiter for the health care industry, and his wife, Bella.

In an exclusive interview, the Dooleys said they contacted the FBI after learning of Joran's confession to his dad during a shopping trip to a clothing store in Charlotte, N.C. The date was June 11, just a few days after Aruba police had arrested Joran and the Kalpoe brothers as "persons of interest" in the case.

Dooley said the clerk at the clothing store told him that she and her husband are very good friends with Joran's dad, Paulus van der Sloot, and his wife, Anita. Her own son had attended school with Joran on the island and was a close pal.

The clerk told Dooley: "Joran told his father that he and Natalee had all been drinking and taking drugs at the nightclub. The father specifically mentioned they took Ecstasy. Joran told his father that when they left the club, they went to a beach on the island. Natalee was very ill and threw up several times.

"Then she fell and hit her head on something. Joran checked her and realized she was dead.


The clerk continued: "Paulus van der Sloot is very worried. This was an accidental death but his son is likely to end up going to jail because it looks like he was covering up a murder.

"But Paulus admitted telling his son that if a body wasn't found, there could be a chance he'd get out of jail."

According to another source close to the case, Robert Werner, headmaster of the International School of Aruba, where Joran attended classes, also said that Paulus van der Sloot admitted to him his son confessed that Natalee died accidentally in a fall on a beach.

The source revealed: "Paulus told the headmaster that Joran and Natalee had been taking drugs and decided to go for a swim. As they played in and around the water, Natalee fell, hit her head on a rock and drowned. In a drug and alcohol-induced panic, Joran felt he had no other choice but to dispose of Natalee's body in the sea."

Paulus van der Sloot was arrested himself on June 23, a week after the Dooleys reported their conversation with the clerk to the FBI.

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63315
--------------------------------
Snip
As The National Enquirer reported last week, police theorize that Natalee died accidentally, possibly drowning after she fell and hit her head in a drug-induced stupor. Police also believe Joran confessed to his father that Natalee had taken ecstasy and when she died, Joran panicked and decided to get rid of the body. But he needed help — and knew where to find it.

"Joran is believed to be friends with a known ecstasy dealer in Aruba and police think that's where he got the drug," said the source.

"When Natalee died, Joran got in touch with the dealer. The theory is that the dealer had an incentive to dispose of her body so that police wouldn't trace the drugs back to him. But the dealer made it clear to Joran that if he talked he'd disappear too."

On a similar note, police are investigating whether Paulus, a former justice department official, helped his son get rid of Natalee's body by contacting shady characters he knows.

"The police are looking into Paulus van der Sloot's finances and whether he might be connected to mobsters that may have ties to Aruba's casino business," said the source. "Paulus is a known high-stakes poker player."

After examining Joran's cell phone and computer, police discovered that someone tried to manipulate the clocks and calendars inside the devices so it would look like the messages were sent at different times.

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63316

[Lala'sMom]

Michigan?  Well that explains our obnoxious poster from Michigan that thought the sun could rise and set in Joran pants.   Maybe also explains why there is nothing in Joran's pants. Hmmmm!   

You peeked! 

My secret is out! 

[Tamikosmom]

Tamikosmom...Good Morning...Do you have the interview where Beth ws asked about or talked about the shoe? Also IIRC there was one from Dompig and one from Jossy. I am really interested as to the date the shoe information came out1 Thanks in Advance!

Sorry ... no link for the Greta/Beth interview.  I tried goggling (sounds obscene LOL) ... no luck.  It could be one of Heli's transcripts.

Nancy Grace tries but ... Jossy Mansur does not commit himself to the "one" shoe theory.

Janet

+++++++++++++


Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
December 6, 2005

TWITTY: You know Greta now that you mention it I was looking through my journal and there was an update from an FBI official and also from our family liaison that in one of Joran Van der Sloot's tennis shoes there was blood. I had written that down. I wish that I had been able to obtain more information as to what happened to that one shoe if that was truly blood in his shoe. You know Greta like I said we are just so limited in any type of information we can get.

VAN SUSTEREN: : Are you suggesting that they did find one of the pair of shoes and that they seized that?

TWITTY: Yes, when I was looking back through my notes there was a date where we received this information either from the FBI or our family liason that there was blood in Joran's tennis shoe.

VAN SUSTEREN:: I suppose, of course if there is blood you would be out of your mind not to test the blood to see if it's JVDS blood or not. Do you know if they any testing was done on that shoe?

TWITTY: No, we don't know we never heard the results of any DNA, if we did hear it was 2 1/2 months later but we never heard anything definitive about the shoe.

VAN SUSTEREN: I take it if you heard it was his blood then you would have recalled you got the final results. And let me see if I got this straight you can't recall getting any results on the blood in that shoe if indeed it was blood in the shoe?

TWITTY: No, it was only mentioned one time throughout my journal. Only once.


Beth Twitty
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 9, 2005
 
TWITTY: ...I mean, I think we need to stay focused on the bloody tennis shoe that was found...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10439299/


Beth Twitty
NANCY GRACE
February 23, 2006
 
GRACE: ... Beth, why did he leave his shoes behind?

TWITTY: You know, that`s been a question all along, Nancy. And I really couldn`t figure out if there was one tennis shoe that he left behind or if it were both.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/23/ng.01.html


Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
July 28, 2005

GRACE: Very quickly, to Jossy Mansur with "Diario," he repeatedly advertises the reward for Natalee Holloway up to $1 million tonight for her safe return, $100,000 for evidence as to her whereabouts.

Jossy Mansur, what can you tell us about this theory floating around out there that a shoe is involved, a lost shoe belonging to either van der Sloot or the Kalpoe brothers?

MANSUR: Well, that`s a fact that`s been going around for quite some time now, that he was barefoot when he walked back home and that he lost his shoe somewhere either on the beach or over here at the pond.

snip

GRACE: And Jossy, before we go break, could you explain to me about this shoe again? I'm not getting -- how do we know? Why do we suspect that Joran van der Sloot left behind one of his shoes?

MANSUR: That came out of some kind of a statement somewhere. I don`t know, either. I can`t pinpoint the exact time or place where he said that, or where they found out he`s missing his shoes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/28/ng.01.html

[Maggie]

Lala'sMom,
Sorry, have been gone for a while. I read about the trip to Miami here at Scared Monkeys, so it must be in one of the early threads. IIRC, everyone was surprised he went to Miami (it definitely was Miami, although he could have gone someplace from there), seemed like he returned the same or the next day, and no one knew he was gone until he returned. Was Val in Miami at that apartment at that time?  I've never seen it mentioned again after it was first mentioned here.

[MumInOhio]

Thanks...Tamikosmom for the info on the shoes...it was Tromp, not Dompig, but I thought I recalled Julu/August. Google is my friend!

Thanks...******* on the NC info, just read it a while back, but still needed a refresher! think there is one more NC name or connection, but can't place it right now!

[johan555]

The Shango Riddle, which first popped up on an Aruba-related blog forum

wich blog/forum was that ?

[Lala'sMom]

Lala'sMom,
Sorry, have been gone for a while. I read about the trip to Miami here at Scared Monkeys, so it must be in one of the early threads. IIRC, everyone was surprised he went to Miami (it definitely was Miami, although he could have gone someplace from there), seemed like he returned the same or the next day, and no one knew he was gone until he returned. Was Val in Miami at that apartment at that time?  I've never seen it mentioned again after it was first mentioned here.

Good question...I remember the discussions, but no details.  Several of our monkeys had that story almost pinned down and then we ventured off in other directions or we were lead off by some that were placed strategically to confuse. A few names come to mind.

[Lala'sMom]

The Shango Riddle, which first popped up on an Aruba-related blog forum

wich blog/forum was that ?

Shango is everywhere and nowhere...Shango was on the front page of Scared Monkeys.  He and Simian seemed to love that venue at the time.

[Observer]

I just wanted to wish Vicki a safe trip and I think you are a remarkeable person for all your efforts in making sure Natalee has a voice at these travel shows. Godspeed!!! 

It is not too late for others to make the trip as this is once in a lifetime opportunity and it will be worth every second of your time. I attended two of these events and they both came at a bad time for me and terrible weather,but I am so glad I was able to make it. I know I would be kicking myself forever if I didnt show up.

If you ever wanted to do something for Natalee Holloway this is the event! This is the opportunity for you to make a real difference. You have the knowledge and the interest but do you have the desire to tell Natalee's story to clueless people who think it's all over and bit hard into the misinformation? Are you able to tell people the Hell that Beth and Dave have gone through? If you don't go who will? You can't always rely on others and if something has to be done,the only way to make sure of it,is to do it yourself. People are desperately needed for this event and if you live on the East Coast,please go as Natalee is depending on you.


This lady did it all by herself and in the capitol of Aruba..If she isn't a inspiration along with Dave and Beth's fight to find there daughter and the truth..Then I don't know what is.

[dennisintn]

Michigan?  Well that explains our obnoxious poster from Michigan that thought the sun could rise and set in Joran pants.   Maybe also explains why there is nothing in Joran's pants. Hmmmm!   

roflmao, now come clean the diet coke off my screen and keyboard, you clown.
dennisintn

[Lala'sMom]

Michigan?  Well that explains our obnoxious poster from Michigan that thought the sun could rise and set in Joran pants.   Maybe also explains why there is nothing in Joran's pants. Hmmmm!   

roflmao, now come clean the diet coke off my screen and keyboard, you clown.
dennisintn

I have often said I must have been a comedian in my other life.   

[Rob]

The Shango Riddle, which first popped up on an Aruba-related blog forum

wich blog/forum was that ?

here my friend