Natalee Case Discussion #759 6/18 - 6/22

[bleachedblack]

Yes, that looks about the same as I would guess. I recall reading he had airconditioning in it.

and it would have to have some sort of ventilation system if it was used for painting...I think that's what you meant BB.

These things are NOT able to be locked from the inside - simply to prevent someone from locking themselves in!!! duh!!!

I have never seen a container like the one I pictured, and there are a few hundred different types, that you can lock yourself in - but the point is - you can not lock them from the inside.

If this isn't a crime, I'm not sure a crime was ever committed on Aruba in it's 5000 year history.

Yes you are correct ventilation, and so sort of cooling or I would imagine you would cook inside one in the Aruban sun. With regards to the lock, I would imagine someone could weld or make some sort of lock for the inside, but why would they want to? Just doesn't add up as you mention.......had to be locked from the outside.

[Dayhiker]

So, if it was "Choose-a-Name" bar they stopped at, maybe more than just being a 'mule,' this guy was dealin'. Wonder if Deepak stopped for a little fix for Natalee? Maybe a little in a drink or something?

Hard to say Johan. Some think they drugged her in Carlos & Charlies and that the drug was starting to hit her there, hence Deepak was leading her out by the arm. This would explain Deepak never spilling the beans on Joran, because he helped kidnap her.

Same applies for Choose-a-Name. If they bought her a drugged drink there Deepak would still be guilty of kidnapping.

Both Kalpoes are at the very least guilty of kidnapping and don't think Paulus didn't remind them of it, even after Joran tried to frame Deepak.

[Dayhiker]

Does anyone remember when Paulus was supposed to have taken that trip to Miami?  Could he even get out of Aruba without someone knowing?  Who did he meet in Miami?  Could Paulus have sent someone else to Miami instead?

No I remember paulus went to florida- much discussion here about it.  That was when we first found the links to all the buissness's in Plantation Fla.early archives late june early august

Do you remember when he was supposed to have made that trip?  Before or after Joran's arrest?

Wasn't it after Joran's arrest? I'm thinking three weeks after Natalee disappeared. That would have been right before his arrest.

[wreck]

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say that he indeed died of natural causes. Why in the hell WOULD you lock yourself INSIDE the container?????? Like Rob said, these containers won't lock from the inside anyways. It's a safety feature much like walk-in coolers and freezers.

[Lala'sMom]

Does anyone remember when Paulus was supposed to have taken that trip to Miami?  Could he even get out of Aruba without someone knowing?  Who did he meet in Miami?  Could Paulus have sent someone else to Miami instead?

No I remember paulus went to florida- much discussion here about it.  That was when we first found the links to all the buissness's in Plantation Fla.early archives late june early august

Do you remember when he was supposed to have made that trip?  Before or after Joran's arrest?

Well if that is true, then that is interesting...very. Hmmmm.

Wasn't it after Joran's arrest? I'm thinking three weeks after Natalee disappeared. That would have been right before his arrest.

[Observer]

Great questions raised today. You just have to wonder how many people have been "hits" by organized crime just because saw something or they knew too much. Did Rene see something at the crematorium? Did Ruth know something about Paulus' banking habits? Was Pitbull the one who sold Joran the drugs that killed Natalee? What did Bud know?

The island is majority owned by organized crime. They don't think twice about killing people on Aruba.

Life is cheap and people are ruthless in Venezuela and Colombia and Aruba is right next to them. Organized crime is not the same as they were 50 years ago,they hide in plain sight now and are very discreet. But they are still the Mafia and your right they do not think twice about killing someone.

It's sad that our Government does nothing These tourists have no idea who is behind that island. If only they knew it was run by the Mob and Cartels,they would think twice about investing or vactioning there. Unfortunately they sell out for a cheaper carribean vacation and only realize what they are up against when one of them goes missing,gets raped,robbed or goes swimming and runs into a 2 week old corpse floating in the ocean.

[johan555]

Ponson allegedly hit a local judge in the face

On Island, Ponson No Longer Marooned
O's Pitcher Released From Aruban Jail

By Dave Sheinin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 5, 2005; Page D01


ORANJESTAD, Aruba, Jan. 4 -- A man has certain needs at the end of 10 torturous days in the city lock-up, such as horsepower and loud music. And so it was that Sir Sidney Ponson, Knight in the Order of the Dutch Royal House, in his first acts of freedom upon being released from jail Tuesday afternoon, demanded from his agent the keys to his own Mercedes, which had been parked conveniently outside the police station -- "I'm driving," the Baltimore Orioles pitcher barked -- then wedged himself into the driver's seat and paused to turn the radio dial to something harder, faster, louder.

And with that -- plus a quick no-comment to the two reporters who had gathered to chronicle the moment -- Sir Sidney was gone. He was wearing his island nation's traditional mid-day garb: a white T-shirt, baggy shorts, flip-flops and shades. He had days' worth of stubble on his face and head, both of which are typically shaved clean. He did not smile. He backed up the Mercedes and pulled away in a dusty cloud.

Sidney Ponson is free from jail in his native Aruba, but still faces three serious charges stemming from a Christmas day incident at the beach.

From the outside, it had seemed like a whirlwind 10 days for Ponson -- from the Christmas day fight on the beach that landed three people, including himself, in police custody after Ponson allegedly hit a local judge in the face; to the public prosecutor's decision two days later to exercise his legal right to extend Ponson's detainment for another eight days while the investigation continued; to the pregnant pause in the country's legal system over the raucous New Year's Eve weekend; and, finally, to his unceremonious release Tuesday at 12:12 p.m., Atlantic Standard Time.

But inside Ponson's jail cell, it seemed far from a whirlwind. It was 10 days of monotony, broken up only by a bath every morning and three square meals a day. Other than that? Boredom. Vicious heat. Blood-sucking mosquitoes. No television or radio. No beer. No visitors, except for his lawyer. And no reading material, except for a Bible at one's request.

Ponson, one learns by asking, did not request a Bible.

"He was more conversating with the other guys," said a watch commander at the sleepy police station in Noord, where Ponson spent the second half of his detainment following a transfer. The watch commander declined to reveal his name, saying the chain of command did not allow him to speak to the media.

"The guys [in the adjacent cells] enjoy him," the officer said. "They all know him. He's very famous here. I hope he learns a lesson from this. He needs to . . . get his act together."

The two acquaintances who were arrested along with Ponson released themselves on their own recognizance four days later by cutting through the bars of their cells with a saw and bending them apart. The escapees were apprehended on Sunday, reportedly in possession of $20,000 cash, drugs, jewelry and a police scanner.

Ponson, his lawyer said, had nothing to do with the escape and slept through the entire thing.

More is expected of Ponson in Aruba, where he was born and raised, where he has donated money and goods for years to locals in need, and where he was given one of the Dutch crown's highest honors for its citizens -- knighthood -- in 2003. At the time, he seemed humbled by the title's responsibilities, which include setting a good example for his fellow citizens with his behavior.

Presumably, that behavior does not include getting hammered on the beach, buzzing people too closely with one's personal watercraft, or -- after those people complained about it -- punching a man in the face, all of which Ponson is alleged to have done. (However, eyewitness accounts differ as to which party instigated the fight.) As for the fact the decked man turned out to be a judge -- W. Noordhuizen, a resident of the island for only three months, who has not responded to interview requests -- well, that's just bad luck. For that matter, so is the fact Ponson's arrest resulted in a 10-day stay in the slammer while the investigation plodded on, owing to the simple reality that Aruba has no system of bail.

"Public opinion here is, if [the alleged victim] was not a judge, this case would have been very different," said Vale Hart, a reporter for the Diario Aruba newspaper. "Maybe they wouldn't have even arrested [Ponson]. But because he was a judge, they did. That's not good. Something has to be done with our way of doing justice in Aruba."

A story in Tuesday's La Prensa newspaper compared Ponson's case to 10 similar ones in recent months and found the severity of Ponson's punishment to be more extreme than the others'.

"The feeling on the island is [the authorities] drew this [detainment] out as long as they could," said Ashiko Martinus, a childhood friend of Ponson's who was one of many friends and family members who gathered in a show of support Tuesday morning outside the courthouse where a judge made the decision to grant Ponson his release. "Maybe they want to make an example of him to the rest of the island."

Ponson arrived at that hearing Tuesday morning in a Mitsubishi Galant squad car (the license plate of which, like all in Aruba, contained the motto, "One Happy Island"). He emerged from the back seat on his own -- dressed in nice clothes, free of handcuffs -- as if exiting a cab at the front gates at Yankee Stadium, then walked into the courthouse without making eye contact with any of his family members or supporters.

Despite being released Tuesday, Ponson still faces three serious charges that could result in a prison sentence when the case goes before a judge. Those charges, according to spokeswoman Mary Ann Croes of the public prosecutor's office, are premeditated simple assault, attempt to commit severe assault and fighting in a public place.

That hearing before a judge -- in which, like a trial, Ponson's guilt or innocence will be determined -- will be held March 3, just as the Orioles are beginning their Grapefruit League schedule, with Ponson, who will be in the second year of a three-year, $22.5 million contract, again expected to be one of the team's top starting pitchers.

Ponson was released into the arms of a beautiful afternoon on the island he loves. Temperatures were in the 80s. Beachgoers frolicked in the surf, personal watercrafts buzzing along safely behind them. A giant cruise ship, like the ones Ponson used to work on as a teenager, hogged the horizon and disgorged its human contents into the tourist-trap shops along the main beach road.

The coming days promise to bring the same idyllic routine, but Ponson won't be around to see it. For weeks now, he has been booked on a plane back to the United States on Wednesday, where he will begin in earnest his preparations for spring training and the 2005 season at his residences in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., and Baltimore. The flight departs in the late afternoon.

Ponson, according to his agent, plans to be on it.

[sandy leiva]

I have a bunch of questions...these darn things have been nagging at me and since my mower battery is dead and I am recharging I have time to ask them...so here goes.  Didn't want to cut grass today anyway. LOL

Why does Rudy Croes not remove the Sloots from the island? 
Has Joran not seen any of his family lately? If he can't go to Aruba, how does mommy keep up with him?
Where does all this money to fly around the globe come from?
How much money does Paulus get to play lawyer? What is that in comparison to what that family spends?
How can Val fly around the world too?  Where is the money?
What is Anita's salary?
If the shoe is not Joran's and it's not someone else's what was the purpose of the photos?
What happened to Daury?  Still in jail?
Why does a U.S. judge continue to allow the Kalpoe suit to be in play?
Who told the Kalpoes that lawsuit was a good idea? What was the motive?
Has Satish ever graduated?
Where is Momma K?  Does she work?
How much would Deepak's car sell for in Aruba when it was new?
Can he make that kind of payment working at a cyber cafe?
Where is Mr. Pink these days?
What ever happened to Lorenzo?
How do we know he has a basement where they make films? Who told us that?
Why won't the FBI say anything? 
Who is Andres Meneses?  Where does he fit into this?
If they have a legal document that asserts Paulus picked up Joran at 4 AM, why has nothing been said about it since?  Who was that witness?
What is the only method of disposal that insure no body?  Cremation? 
Would Paulus take that chance?
How can Paulus pay off all these people?
Why do the Sloots live in such a less than fancy house and still wield so much power?
Why haven't they moved? 
What is on their property? 
Where is Joran now?  Is he in school? 
Where did the money come from to take care of this mess?
How much would a drug runner get to move drugs around the island?
Why is the family so silent lately?
When is the next hurricane due by Aruba?

I don't expect too many answers but I keep thinking about these things and more...just thought I should stop now.

Fantastic questions.  I think we will be provided more awnsers with each corps that roll out on the waves and with each statement jvds makes in his sic travels about the world. He wont be lucky forever...

[Dayhiker]

Great questions raised today. You just have to wonder how many people have been "hits" by organized crime just because saw something or they knew too much. Did Rene see something at the crematorium? Did Ruth know something about Paulus' banking habits? Was Pitbull the one who sold Joran the drugs that killed Natalee? What did Bud know?

The island is majority owned by organized crime. They don't think twice about killing people on Aruba.

Life is cheap and people are ruthless in Venezuela and Colombia and Aruba is right next to them. Organized crime is not the same as they were 50 years ago,they hide in plain sight now and are very discreet. But they are still the Mafia and your right they do not think twice about killing someone.

It's sad that our Government does nothing These tourists have no idea who is behind that island. If only they knew it was run by the Mob and Cartels,they would think twice about investing or vactioning there. Unfortunately they sell out for a cheaper carribean vacation and only realize what they are up against when one of them goes missing,gets raped,robbed or goes swimming and runs into a 2 week old corpse floating in the ocean.

I think Holland and the U.S. should just turn the place over to Chavez. Hell, it's only 30 miles off the coast of Venezuela. There are plenty of other islands in the Caribbean chain we could base from. Aruba just isn't worth fighting over. I imagine all those expatriate American traitors on Aruba would be beating back to the States in a herartbeat if they did.

[sandy leiva]

 Were there dead bodies popping up all over One Nightmare Eiland around the time when Natalee went "missing"?

1. Sergio Gomez.
2. The two guys that "committed suicide" in La Cabana Hotel owned by Jossy Mehren Mansur.
3. An American that worked at the Harley Davidson dealership, found in a drum.
4. The girl missing from the cruise ship that left Aruba. She visited Carlos and Charlies. (Amy Bradley)
5. The American that went "missing" after having an argument with a beach proprietor.

there were also several suicides that jumped to thier deaths off the hirise hotels soon after Natalees disappearance.

[Dayhiker]

I have a bunch of questions...these darn things have been nagging at me and since my mower battery is dead and I am recharging I have time to ask them...so here goes.  Didn't want to cut grass today anyway. LOL

Why does Rudy Croes not remove the Sloots from the island? 
Has Joran not seen any of his family lately? If he can't go to Aruba, how does mommy keep up with him?
Where does all this money to fly around the globe come from?
How much money does Paulus get to play lawyer? What is that in comparison to what that family spends?
How can Val fly around the world too?  Where is the money?
What is Anita's salary?
If the shoe is not Joran's and it's not someone else's what was the purpose of the photos?
What happened to Daury?  Still in jail?
Why does a U.S. judge continue to allow the Kalpoe suit to be in play?
Who told the Kalpoes that lawsuit was a good idea? What was the motive?
Has Satish ever graduated?
Where is Momma K?  Does she work?
How much would Deepak's car sell for in Aruba when it was new?
Can he make that kind of payment working at a cyber cafe?
Where is Mr. Pink these days?
What ever happened to Lorenzo?
How do we know he has a basement where they make films? Who told us that?
Why won't the FBI say anything? 
Who is Andres Meneses?  Where does he fit into this?
If they have a legal document that asserts Paulus picked up Joran at 4 AM, why has nothing been said about it since?  Who was that witness?
What is the only method of disposal that insure no body?  Cremation? 
Would Paulus take that chance?
How can Paulus pay off all these people?
Why do the Sloots live in such a less than fancy house and still wield so much power?
Why haven't they moved? 
What is on their property? 
Where is Joran now?  Is he in school? 
Where did the money come from to take care of this mess?
How much would a drug runner get to move drugs around the island?
Why is the family so silent lately?
When is the next hurricane due by Aruba?

I don't expect too many answers but I keep thinking about these things and more...just thought I should stop now.

Fantastic questions.  I think we will be provided more awnsers with each corps that roll out on the waves and with each statement jvds makes in his sic travels about the world. He wont be lucky forever...

Not if Peter DeVries has his way.

[Observer]

Other Caribbean countries issued travel warnings to travelers in 2004 and 2005 about the dangers of date rape drugs in there countries but not Aruba. Several have been drugged and raped and in Natalee's case murdered,but they still deny and don't talk about the abundance of date rape drugs. The Fat SOB Dennis Jacobs even toyed with Dave to watch his drink in there first meeting,because people slip GHB into them,then asked him how much money he had?  He bragged about talking to schools about date rape drugs,but what murder or missing person case has he ever worked? Would you believe a obese narcotics officer who is the islands date rape drug expert was the lead investigator in the biggest murder case ever? They have witnesses,victims,testimony and confessions that all say date rape but yet they still deny it and have never issued any warnings or acknowledgement.

[bleachedblack]

 Were there dead bodies popping up all over One Nightmare Eiland around the time when Natalee went "missing"?

1. Sergio Gomez.
2. The two guys that "committed suicide" in La Cabana Hotel owned by Jossy Mehren Mansur.
3. An American that worked at the Harley Davidson dealership, found in a drum.
4. The girl missing from the cruise ship that left Aruba. She visited Carlos and Charlies. (Amy Bradley)
5. The American that went "missing" after having an argument with a beach proprietor.

there were also several suicides that jumped to thier deaths off the hirise hotels soon after Natalees disappearance.

hmmmm I don't recall hearing about that , anymore info?

[wreck]

Ponson allegedly hit a local judge in the face

On Island, Ponson No Longer Marooned
O's Pitcher Released From Aruban Jail

By Dave Sheinin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 5, 2005; Page D01


ORANJESTAD, Aruba, Jan. 4 -- A man has certain needs at the end of 10 torturous days in the city lock-up, such as horsepower and loud music. And so it was that Sir Sidney Ponson, Knight in the Order of the Dutch Royal House, in his first acts of freedom upon being released from jail Tuesday afternoon, demanded from his agent the keys to his own Mercedes, which had been parked conveniently outside the police station -- "I'm driving," the Baltimore Orioles pitcher barked -- then wedged himself into the driver's seat and paused to turn the radio dial to something harder, faster, louder.

And with that -- plus a quick no-comment to the two reporters who had gathered to chronicle the moment -- Sir Sidney was gone. He was wearing his island nation's traditional mid-day garb: a white T-shirt, baggy shorts, flip-flops and shades. He had days' worth of stubble on his face and head, both of which are typically shaved clean. He did not smile. He backed up the Mercedes and pulled away in a dusty cloud.

Sidney Ponson is free from jail in his native Aruba, but still faces three serious charges stemming from a Christmas day incident at the beach.

From the outside, it had seemed like a whirlwind 10 days for Ponson -- from the Christmas day fight on the beach that landed three people, including himself, in police custody after Ponson allegedly hit a local judge in the face; to the public prosecutor's decision two days later to exercise his legal right to extend Ponson's detainment for another eight days while the investigation continued; to the pregnant pause in the country's legal system over the raucous New Year's Eve weekend; and, finally, to his unceremonious release Tuesday at 12:12 p.m., Atlantic Standard Time.

But inside Ponson's jail cell, it seemed far from a whirlwind. It was 10 days of monotony, broken up only by a bath every morning and three square meals a day. Other than that? Boredom. Vicious heat. Blood-sucking mosquitoes. No television or radio. No beer. No visitors, except for his lawyer. And no reading material, except for a Bible at one's request.

Ponson, one learns by asking, did not request a Bible.

"He was more conversating with the other guys," said a watch commander at the sleepy police station in Noord, where Ponson spent the second half of his detainment following a transfer. The watch commander declined to reveal his name, saying the chain of command did not allow him to speak to the media.

"The guys [in the adjacent cells] enjoy him," the officer said. "They all know him. He's very famous here. I hope he learns a lesson from this. He needs to . . . get his act together."

The two acquaintances who were arrested along with Ponson released themselves on their own recognizance four days later by cutting through the bars of their cells with a saw and bending them apart. The escapees were apprehended on Sunday, reportedly in possession of $20,000 cash, drugs, jewelry and a police scanner.

Ponson, his lawyer said, had nothing to do with the escape and slept through the entire thing.

More is expected of Ponson in Aruba, where he was born and raised, where he has donated money and goods for years to locals in need, and where he was given one of the Dutch crown's highest honors for its citizens -- knighthood -- in 2003. At the time, he seemed humbled by the title's responsibilities, which include setting a good example for his fellow citizens with his behavior.

Presumably, that behavior does not include getting hammered on the beach, buzzing people too closely with one's personal watercraft, or -- after those people complained about it -- punching a man in the face, all of which Ponson is alleged to have done. (However, eyewitness accounts differ as to which party instigated the fight.) As for the fact the decked man turned out to be a judge -- W. Noordhuizen, a resident of the island for only three months, who has not responded to interview requests -- well, that's just bad luck. For that matter, so is the fact Ponson's arrest resulted in a 10-day stay in the slammer while the investigation plodded on, owing to the simple reality that Aruba has no system of bail.

"Public opinion here is, if [the alleged victim] was not a judge, this case would have been very different," said Vale Hart, a reporter for the Diario Aruba newspaper. "Maybe they wouldn't have even arrested [Ponson]. But because he was a judge, they did. That's not good. Something has to be done with our way of doing justice in Aruba."

A story in Tuesday's La Prensa newspaper compared Ponson's case to 10 similar ones in recent months and found the severity of Ponson's punishment to be more extreme than the others'.

"The feeling on the island is [the authorities] drew this [detainment] out as long as they could," said Ashiko Martinus, a childhood friend of Ponson's who was one of many friends and family members who gathered in a show of support Tuesday morning outside the courthouse where a judge made the decision to grant Ponson his release. "Maybe they want to make an example of him to the rest of the island."

Ponson arrived at that hearing Tuesday morning in a Mitsubishi Galant squad car (the license plate of which, like all in Aruba, contained the motto, "One Happy Island"). He emerged from the back seat on his own -- dressed in nice clothes, free of handcuffs -- as if exiting a cab at the front gates at Yankee Stadium, then walked into the courthouse without making eye contact with any of his family members or supporters.

Despite being released Tuesday, Ponson still faces three serious charges that could result in a prison sentence when the case goes before a judge. Those charges, according to spokeswoman Mary Ann Croes of the public prosecutor's office, are premeditated simple assault, attempt to commit severe assault and fighting in a public place.

That hearing before a judge -- in which, like a trial, Ponson's guilt or innocence will be determined -- will be held March 3, just as the Orioles are beginning their Grapefruit League schedule, with Ponson, who will be in the second year of a three-year, $22.5 million contract, again expected to be one of the team's top starting pitchers.

Ponson was released into the arms of a beautiful afternoon on the island he loves. Temperatures were in the 80s. Beachgoers frolicked in the surf, personal watercrafts buzzing along safely behind them. A giant cruise ship, like the ones Ponson used to work on as a teenager, hogged the horizon and disgorged its human contents into the tourist-trap shops along the main beach road.

The coming days promise to bring the same idyllic routine, but Ponson won't be around to see it. For weeks now, he has been booked on a plane back to the United States on Wednesday, where he will begin in earnest his preparations for spring training and the 2005 season at his residences in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., and Baltimore. The flight departs in the late afternoon.

Ponson, according to his agent, plans to be on it.

A couple of thoughts on Sidney Ponson. He was given his unconditional release this week by the Texas Rangers despite a 3.88 ERA and a 4-1 record (by far best on the Rangers.) What did he do?? He tried to beat-up the bartender from a Hotel they were staying in because he was cut-off late at night. Ponson who was PITCHING the next afternoon was shellacked both the night before as well as in his start). The Rangers have another player with a LONG history of being a tempermental ass -- Milton Bradley. Milton was quoted yesterday about Ponson : "MAN, now THAT guy (Ponson) has some serious issues!!" LOL

Ponson would fit right in with the rest of the thugs on Aruba. I'm just a little sympathetic though as I commend him for actually hitting an Aruba judge!!

[Dayhiker]

Other Caribbean countries issued travel warnings to travelers in 2004 and 2005 about the dangers of date rape drugs in there countries but not Aruba. Several have been drugged and raped and in Natalee's case murdered,but they still deny and don't talk about the abundance of date rape drugs. The Fat SOB Dennis Jacobs even toyed with Dave to watch his drink in there first meeting,because people slip GHB into them,then asked him how much money he had?  He bragged about talking to schools about date rape drugs,but what murder or missing person cases has he ever worked? Would you believe a obese narcotics officer who is the islands date rape drug expert was the lead investigator in the biggest murder case ever? They have witnesses,victims,testimony and confessions that all say date rape but yet they still deny it and have never issued any warnings or acknowledgement.

Probably because they all use them on unsuspecting women. You know Jan and Fat Boy knew damn well Joran drugged Natalee, VDS even offered him a plea bargain. Jannsen knew he drugged her and arrested the security guards instead. They are all just a rotten bunch of animals. Seizures indeed.

I have wondered whether they were all sent to Aruba because Holland didn't want them, knew they were rotten. Prosecutors, judges, all of those sick assholes. The judges being the slimiest of the lot.

[sandy leiva]

Does anyone remember when Paulus was supposed to have taken that trip to Miami?  Could he even get out of Aruba without someone knowing?  Who did he meet in Miami?  Could Paulus have sent someone else to Miami instead?

No I remember paulus went to florida- much discussion here about it.  That was when we first found the links to all the buissness's in Plantation Fla.early archives late june early august

Do you remember when he was supposed to have made that trip?  Before or after Joran's arrest?

  yes after - nobody knew he had left untill his return from fla.  everyone here surprised about it

[Rob]

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say that he indeed died of natural causes. Why in the hell WOULD you lock yourself INSIDE the container?????? Like Rob said, these containers won't lock from the inside anyways. It's a safety feature much like walk-in coolers and freezers.

wreck - if I might,

Why is it that American's only die of natural causes on Aruba or accidents?

let's sum up a few of the cases I remember.

father / son died trying to save another son. accident - for sure.
American that died when the palm tree fell on him / her - I think it was a him.
American that died in ATV accident - company says buh bye!
American that "surfaced" to quickly and seem to have gotten a lighting fast case of death. Family claimed that was faulty equipment.
guy dead at Mill resort - where I found the white van - natural causes
Robert Benson - natural causes (???)


all of those folks were found.

now who is missing (crime victim).

Natalee
Max
Buddy
Gary Makings *(questionable what happened here)
Amy

all of these people are not found (*cough*) and were known victims of criminals or assailants. KNOWN

Americans that are victims of criminals or assailants are disappeared.

They can try to hide behind their secret language and handshake - but we're wise to 'em.

[always 1]

O/T  sorta,  just got my Elle magazine and there are grafetti high tops for women!!!

[Dayhiker]

A couple of thoughts on Sidney Ponson. He was given his unconditional release this week by the Texas Rangers despite a 3.88 ERA and a 4-1 record (by far best on the Rangers.) What did he do?? He tried to beat-up the bartender from a Hotel they were staying in because he was cut-off late at night. Ponson who was PITCHING the next afternoon was shellacked both the night before as well as in his start). The Rangers have another player with a LONG history of being a tempermental ass -- Milton Bradley. Milton was quoted yesterday about Ponson : "MAN, now THAT guy (Ponson) has some serious issues!!" LOL

Ponson would fit right in with the rest of the thugs on Aruba. I'm just a little sympathetic though as I commend him for actually hitting an Aruba judge!!

[/quote]


He didn't even know he was hitting a judge. Isn't that poetic justice?

[Dayhiker]

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say that he indeed died of natural causes. Why in the hell WOULD you lock yourself INSIDE the container?????? Like Rob said, these containers won't lock from the inside anyways. It's a safety feature much like walk-in coolers and freezers.

wreck - if I might,

Why is it that American's only die of natural causes on Aruba or accidents?

let's sum up a few of the cases I remember.

father / son died trying to save another son. accident - for sure.
American that died when the palm tree fell on him / her - I think it was a him.
American that died in ATV accident - company says buh bye!
American that "surfaced" to quickly and seem to have gotten a lighting fast case of death. Family claimed that was faulty equipment.
guy dead at Mill resort - where I found the white van - natural causes
Robert Benson - natural causes (???)


all of those folks were found.

now who is missing (crime victim).

Natalee
Max
Buddy
Gary Makings *(questionable what happened here)
Amy

all of these people are not found (*cough*) and were known victims of criminals or assailants. KNOWN

Americans that are victims of criminals or assailants are disappeared.

They can try to hide behind their secret language and handshake - but we're wise to 'em.