Natalee Case Discussion #759 6/18 - 6/22

[Observer]

If this offends anyone let me know and I will delete the picture. I am posting it because I wanted to show how skeletal the remains are and I am not so sure the other body was in the water as long as this one.


http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3137/floater7re8.jpg

[kippy]

Of course Joran had to make up a story about the identical shoes.  He could never say they were the special limited ones, just in case they were found.  Thats why such a big deal was made of the shoes.  The limited ones are probably the only ones like it on the whole crappy island.  If they were ever found, he'd be screwed as they would be tied directly to him.  Thus making the real description of the shoes a huge secret never to be told.  Thats why kalpoes were going to go back and look for them and Freddy (or someone) (IIRC) said he'd buy him a new pair.  I personally think they are the real shoes and planted to be found for some specific reason.

Anyone ever hear again from CapLock and any new developments he referred to?

[LilPuma]

Always1, I understand what you're saying about the shoe and I agree. 

I looked through 98 pages of thumbnails based on a search for Thailand Clubs and Dutch in Thailand.  No Joran, but lots of westerners.  Needle in a haystack, but what the hay, I hoped there'd be something with some mystery person and a big wad of cash.   There is a Thailand Dutch Expat site, a Yahoo News Group that may have something to do with Dutch in Thailand, but both were in Dutch and you have to join to see pics.   I didn't go to a lot of websites because I didn't want to enter the world of Thai women looking for love. 
   Must be a shortage of men there.   

Tamikosmom, I couldn't even find a transcript of Kimberly's interview with Anita-in-Denial Van der Sloot, even over at RU, so I'll have to look tomorrow.  Long day for me, busy week, I'm tired, I'm sore and achy but I'm really glad GMBW enjoyed her time in the States (gotta watch those subways in big cities) and I'm glad Peter DeVries hasn't dropped the ball or this case. 

Oh, I have a pair of K-Swiss that are several years old, from before my leg got messed up and I was playing tennis.  If a pic of them would help in any way, let me know. 

Nite. 

 

[kippy]

When the picture of the dirty sneakers that Urine was wearing at C&Cs was lightened, Rob identified them as a popular style of Nike.  He could have been wearing them or a pair like them that night.  Do we even know if he lost a shoe, or is that another lie?  There is probably something going on with the sneakers because they were the topic of Urine's statements and the Alpo's statements.  Perhaps the lost sneakers story was fabricated during the poolside chats.

I don't know why they would fabricate a story about lost sneakers at that time, or any time really.  Why even bring them up?  He could have said "no, I didn't lose my shoes, here they are" and nobody would have been the wiser.  There was a huge deal made of the missing shoes, there must have been a reason.  And if you lost a rare shoe at a crime scene, I'm guessing it would be a big deal!

[hotping]

When the picture of the dirty sneakers that Urine was wearing at C&Cs was lightened, Rob identified them as a popular style of Nike.  He could have been wearing them or a pair like them that night.  Do we even know if he lost a shoe, or is that another lie?  There is probably something going on with the sneakers because they were the topic of Urine's statements and the Alpo's statements.  Perhaps the lost sneakers story was fabricated during the poolside chats.

I don't know why they would fabricate a story about lost sneakers at that time, or any time really.  Why even bring them up?  He could have said "no, I didn't lose my shoes, here they are" and nobody would have been the wiser.  There was a huge deal made of the missing shoes, there must have been a reason.  And if you lost a rare shoe at a crime scene, I'm guessing it would be a big deal!

Yes....Kippy You took the thoughts right out of My head....I believe this is exactly right.....

[johan555]

GBMW

Read this letter ,this was  crucial
The PG was in Holland and Karin Janssen  verving haar
 
Dear lord of Nie,

I read on your website that among other things, as I Aruban PG in the crucial first ten days after the disappearance of Natalee Holloway have ruined the case.

I gave you earlier pointed out that this is contrary to the truth and I've asked you to stop untruths to proclaim.

I will again say how things really works. Natalee is the night of 29 on May 30, 2005 disappeared. I was up to June 6, the first eight days after the disappearance, in the Netherlands.
I do have those days during telephone contact with Karin Janssen and I've told her several times that those three boys, whose last with her and had let persist. Her answer was that those boys were first phonetaped , because otherwise the police had "nothing to the hearing to go". When I returned in Aruba, I told her again that she had to arrest the 3 boys . Her answer was that they were waiting for  video equipment from the Netherlands, because the questioning of the boys would be included on the video. WE never worked before  on  Aruba with  video. Why that had to happen now, could not be made clear to me. I was against, because the police never previously had included video interviews and had no experience with this method of questioning.

But as you now do, when I was appointed as the culprit of that disastrous first ten days, while I have nothing to do with it. The first eight days, I was not even in Aruba.  Karin  Janssen replaced for me as  PG and she  took the decisions at that moment . I have never throughout the investigation had contact with Commissioner van der Straten, either personally or by telephone ..

Janssen  never informed me   of the planned arrest of the two guards. I've saw  this in the Netherlands on television. I was never made clear why these two guards were arrested, because there was no indication that they were involved in the disappearance of Natalee. They are never to teletapped  "to have something to the hearing to go".

I would be grateful if you have a correction on your website and places where you are in the future would refrain from proclaim untruths.

mr drs T.D. Croes

NAWOORD (RvN): I FIND IT VERY VERY INTERESTING WHAT THE PG WRITE. ABOVE ALL THE PASSAGE OF TWO BLACK MEN APPEAR TO BE BASED ON NOTHING .... OPGEPAKT. RACISTISCH OR 'FOUTJE'???? THIS IS SO THAT MAY CONTAIN THE TIME FOR (KARIN ETC.) TOGETHER WITH THE ROADS THIS CASE OF THE FIRST 10 DAYS HAS GETRAINEERD. IN COOPERATION WITH WHO, FOR WHOM AND WHY?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Dutch:
brief aan Renee v Nie .
INGEZONDEN:
Geachte heer van Nie,

Ik lees weer op uw website dat onder meer ik als Arubaanse P-G in de cruciale eerste tien dagen na de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway de zaak verpest heb.

Ik heb u al eerder op gewezen dat dit in strijd is met de waarheid en ik heb u ook verzocht op te houden met onwaarheden te verkondigen.

Ik zal u nog een keer zeggen hoe de zaak werkelijk in elkaar steekt. Natalee is in de nacht van 29 op 30 mei 2005 verdwenen. Ik was tot en met 6 juni, de eerste acht dagen na de verdwijning, in Nederland. Ik heb wel gedurende die dagen telefonisch contact gehad met hovj Janssen en ik heb haar meerdere malen gezegd dat zij die drie jongens, die als laatste met haar waren, moest laten aanhouden. Haar antwoord was dat die jongens eerst getapt moesten worden, want anders had de politie "niets om het verhoor in te gaan". Toen ik in Aruba terugkeerde heb ik haar opnieuw gezegd dat zij die jongens moest aanhouden. Haar antwoord was toen dat ze aan het wachten waren op videomateriaal uit Nederland, want het verhoor van de jongens zou op de video opgenomen worden. Nooit eerder is in Aruba een verhoor op de video opgenomen. Waarom dat nu moest gebeuren, kon mij niet duidelijk gemaakt worden. Ik was er tegen, omdat de politie nooit eerder video-verhoren had opgenomen en geen ervaring hadden met deze wijze van verhoren.

Maar zoals u nu ook doet, werd ik toen aangewezen als de schuldige van die rampzalige eerste tien dagen, terwijl ik daar helemaal niets mee te maken heb. De eerste acht dagen was ik niet eens in Aruba. De hovj Janssen verving mij als wnd P-G en zij nam de beslissingen. Ik heb nooit gedurende het gehele onderzoek contact gehad met commissaris van der Straten, noch persoonlijk, noch telefonisch..

Ik ben nooit door hovj Janssen op de hoogte gesteld van de voorgenomen aanhouding van de twee bewakers. Ik heb dit in Nederland op de televisie gezien. Mij is ook nooit duidelijk gemaakt waarom deze twee bewakers aangehouden moesten worden, want er was geen enkele aanwijzing, dat zij betrokken waren bij de verdwijning van Natalee. Ze zijn ook nooit getapt om "iets te hebben om het verhoor in te gaan".

Ik zou het zeer op prijs stellen indien u een rectificatie op uw website zou plaatsen en indien u zich in de toekomst zou onthouden van het verkondigen van onwaarheden.

mr. drs. T.D. Croes

NAWOORD(RvN): IK VIND HET HEEL ERG INTERESSANT WAT DE P.G. SCHRIJFT. VOORAL DE PASSAGE OVER DE TWEE ZWARTE MANNEN DIE OP BASIS VAN NIETS....ZIJN OPGEPAKT. RACISTISCH OF 'FOUTJE'???? DIT ZOU DUS KUNNEN INHOUDEN DAT HET TOENMALIGE O.M. ( KARIN ETC. ) SAMEN MET VAN DER STRATEN DEZE ZAAK DE EERSTE 10 DAGEN GETRAINEERD HEEFT. IN SAMENWERKING MET WIE, VOOR WIE EN WAAROM?

br:RvN

[sirensong]

When the picture of the dirty sneakers that Urine was wearing at C&Cs was lightened, Rob identified them as a popular style of Nike.  He could have been wearing them or a pair like them that night.  Do we even know if he lost a shoe, or is that another lie?  There is probably something going on with the sneakers because they were the topic of Urine's statements and the Alpo's statements.  Perhaps the lost sneakers story was fabricated during the poolside chats.

I don't know why they would fabricate a story about lost sneakers at that time, or any time really.  Why even bring them up?  He could have said "no, I didn't lose my shoes, here they are" and nobody would have been the wiser.  There was a huge deal made of the missing shoes, there must have been a reason.  And if you lost a rare shoe at a crime scene, I'm guessing it would be a big deal!

I tend to think the opposite of what Joran says-that he was leading them away from searching his home for them by saying he left them at the beach.  Then he got rid of them, like burned them or cleaned them.  He told the Kalpoes and Freddy the story so they would repeat it and get everyone away from where they really were.  I think Kalpoes and Freddy knew the "I left my shoes" story was not true. 

[johan555]

Rob were was that police car ?

[carpe noctem]

   Aruba
June 18, 2008, 17:41 (GMT -04:00)

Again corpse has been found

ORANJESTAD - Tourists have again yesterday a corpse into the sea at Wariruri found. Monday was whether the body of a man by holidaymakers found in the same place. The identity of the two persons is still unknown.
 
Read more
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  No name change for RBTT Aruba (Subscriber Article)
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  Pronunciation Valero next year

[Silverfox]

OK, I can't stand it anymore...

Anyone who examined the first set of Destiny's pics about that new SHOE surely saw the graffiti design -- I sure did... that was one of the things that made it unique....

Wreck... sorry man, but it really was there all along -- the same shoe, ok?  go back and take a second look, the special word design was there...

As far as I am concerned, until proven different -- this is the real McCoy....

And the entire island is in this up to their eyebrows... no public person from Jossy (Dirty Hand) to PVDS to Shango or Simian or the rest are free from the taint and corruption -- It may have been an event that Nat was taken too -- or PVDS himself (and maybe some friends) -- but whatever the situation the aftermath is a coverup and they just want it to go away -- and go away we will never go...

So what if the shoe is a plant -- if it is the guilty shoe -- I have said all along that I believe it was a 10+ foot in that 14+ shoe because Joran has Little Big Man (Napolean) complex -- 

[Silverfox]

Let's quit beating around the bush and arrest and extradite PVDS for the murder of Natalee Hollee....

Only then will Joran and the rest come forward and testify to what really happened...

The Supreme Court of Aruba finds complicity on the part pf PVDS -- so charge him and extradite him... -- Use the Noriega Doctrine on him and bring him to justice...

Sorry for sounding so radical but now we have to get radical to really serve Justice... PVDS knows...

HE KNOWS!!! AND MAYBE WAS INVOLVED... I say extradite him and try him for murder...

[Rob]

Wreck - that lettering is actually from the factory and Destiny did call the K-Swiss people to find out about it.  I believe they said that those shoes (K-Swiss graffiti) were available in the 2nd quarter 2005 and in the USA only.  I think Florida was one of the areas they were available.  We do know that Joran was in Florida prior to Natalee going to Aruba.

Seriously??? K-Swiss put lettering on their shoes that look like "tagging" on the side of a subway car????

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/04/01/so-what-does-joran-van-der-sloot-do-as-a-hobby-train-graffiti-art/

[can]

Thats another thing that bothers me about the Dutch version(Opsporing Verzocht) of America's Most Wanted when they aired this case. They bragged about how thorough they are, even the smallest details are copied and reenacted..They went to great lenghths to use Deepaks real car,real locations and times and look a like actors for everyone except the main suspect. Everyone saw they had a dark skin,different race and older actor portraying Joran who looked nothing like him. What other important details had to be exact? His damn missing shoe! They did not show one picture of the all important missing shoe. Rest assured that the ALE/KLPD knows exactly the make,model,color and size of that shoe and they never showed it. Obviously they never wanted it to be found or for Joran to be identified.

How can anyone possibly explain this? Throughout the history of this show..Have they ever botched the most important details like that before? Can you imagine our America's Most wanted doing that? But then again they based much of the facts based on the lies of JK2 as we saw Natalee making googe eyes at Joran and drooling over him. I am suprised they didnt have Natalee saying her Mother was Hitlers sister

Morning ******* - how are you?
Could it be possible that the very distinctiveness of this "grafitti" shoe is why it was NOT shown.  Withholding important information so that if match were found...it would be very significant evidence for ALE?  The very evidence they require to go forward with a prosecution, possibly!
Wasn't there one shoe found at Joran's apt during the search?
Imagine if this shoe was found - or retrieved and held by a Joran cohort or friend but Joran was not told.  (Think if he was told, he would have
wanted his father - to "disappear" the evidence!)
I so hope this shoe is legitimate and not a hoax.   

   

[KarmaRoundUp]

WHITE SHOES

Joran was wear solid white shoes when the following dialogue took place with Greta in March, 2006.

Janet

++++++++


Joran van der Sloot
On the Record w/ Greta
March 3, 2006

VAN SUSTEREN: You left without your shoes. How do you — how do you explain that?

VAN DER SLOOT: We walked onto the — on the beach in the beginning, and where we sat down there, then, I had taken off my shoes. And because, when you walk in, it was the exact same shoes that I'm wearing now.

VAN SUSTEREN: Same kind?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, exactly.

VAN SUSTEREN: Or those aren't the shoes?

VAN DER SLOOT: No, no. Those aren't the shoes...

VAN SUSTEREN: Those are the same kind.

VAN DER SLOOT: ... but those are the exact same kinds.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right.

VAN DER SLOOT: The same size, too

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186707,00.html

Good morning Monkeys
Now why would he say"same size too"?Who does that when describing their shoes?
I so wish Greta would have said"ok,take one of them off and let me see"

[KarmaRoundUp]

If this offends anyone let me know and I will delete the picture. I am posting it because I wanted to show how skeletal the remains are and I am not so sure the other body was in the water as long as this one.


http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3137/floater7re8.jpg

Whoa,is this a image of the 2nd body to wash up or the 3rd?

[Rob]

Johan - this is how I understand it. I also mirrored the Diamonds International image to aim it in the right direction.

[Peaches]

Let's quit beating around the bush and arrest and extradite PVDS for the murder of Natalee Hollee....

Only then will Joran and the rest come forward and testify to what really happened...

The Supreme Court of Aruba finds complicity on the part pf PVDS -- so charge him and extradite him... -- Use the Noriega Doctrine on him and bring him to justice...

Sorry for sounding so radical but now we have to get radical to really serve Justice... PVDS knows...

HE KNOWS!!! AND MAYBE WAS INVOLVED... I say extradite him and try him for murder...

Good morning.

I like the way you think.

[wreck]

I don't know how I missed the graffiti on the shoe. I probably just had the 2 pics that jackb "enhanced" on my mind. I have to agree that this is the reason there has been a REALLY big "to do" about the shoes. Those shoes are about as rare as a finger print and stick out like a sore thumb! I still would like Destiny to explain the pictures in just a little more chronological order. Were the pics we now have taken by Diario -- or were they submitted to Diario?

[Rob]

Wreck - that lettering is actually from the factory and Destiny did call the K-Swiss people to find out about it.  I believe they said that those shoes (K-Swiss graffiti) were available in the 2nd quarter 2005 and in the USA only.  I think Florida was one of the areas they were available.  We do know that Joran was in Florida prior to Natalee going to Aruba.

Seriously??? K-Swiss put lettering on their shoes that look like "tagging" on the side of a subway car????

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/04/01/so-what-does-joran-van-der-sloot-do-as-a-hobby-train-graffiti-art/

!!!HELLO!!!!

MONKEYS HELLO!!!

Somebody must remember this besides me!

HELLO 

[Observer]

Morning ******* - how are you?
Could it be possible that the very distinctiveness of this "grafitti" shoe is why it was NOT shown.  Withholding important information so that if match were found...it would be very significant evidence for ALE?  The very evidence they require to go forward with a prosecution, possibly!
Wasn't there one shoe found at Joran's apt during the search?
Imagine if this shoe was found - or retrieved and held by a Joran cohort or friend but Joran was not told.  (Think if he was told, he would have
wanted his father - to "disappear" the evidence!)
I so hope this shoe is legitimate and not a hoax.   

Good morning I need more Java! 

Yes,that could be why they never showed a picture of the shoes,that is a extremely limited brand as only just over 10,000 were made and only sold in the U.S. in the 2nd quarter of 2005. Less then half of that number were made in mens. Beth was quoted in the very beginning,that she was told that one shoe was found with mud or blood on it,and I know for sure they were looking for one missing shoe in the very beginning.

I hope it is legitimate also and someone got there hands on his real shoe,or has had it quite some time now. Unfortunately the OM already spoke out and said it is not Jorans and it was a very small womans shoe. Someone will have to produce additional evidence that links this shoe to Joran or we will probably never hear anything more about it.